George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

Scotty #

KyussB wrote: »

If the person is directly about to attack another civilian (the police aren't civilians), then it may be justified to shoot to stop him. I'm not yet convinced the bar was met for that justification here.

It's not the Garda's job to stand there and get stabbed.

At the moment he was shot he was in the midst of a frenzied knife attack as the video clearly shows. At that moment, the Gardaí had no option but to use lethal force. In my opinion it was justified.

Omackeral

Shelga wrote: »

I emailed the office of Hazel Chu to register my alarm at her irresponsible tweets. I really never, ever complain about stuff (and I gave the Greens a mention on the ballot in February) but she is an elected representative of Dublin City, it's not on.

Think I'll do the same. I work within the Dept of Justice myself and feel Helen McEntee will be hearing similar. If Brid Smith and her crew call to my on the next spin around, I'll let them know exactly what I, a law-abiding and serving member of the community, thinks of her.

walshb

Witcher wrote: »

There's no anarchy ffs will ya stop with the hyperbole, there's a few gangs going beserk up in Blanch, they'll be put a stop to. Talking about the army on the streets is fcuking moronic

Again, you have not answered.

If there is/was anarchy/mob violence that the Gardai cannot stop, can the sate deploy the army?

It's a simple yes/no answer

And btw, what defines anarchy?

Mob violence and mobs out of control committing crime?

ToddDameron

Dublin Live is responsible for the "thug" label that everyone is so angry about. A quick Google shows that they are constantly calling everyone thugs, black or white, yet this is seen as an example of Ireland's view towards black peoole. An obscure click bait media group is hardly representative of Irish media yet this is what people are running with.

FGR

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It isn't.

So why the lethal force?

I don't want this to become normal here.

If you had a loved one being attacked by a man wielding a machete would you prefer the loved one to possibly lose their life by using their baton/stick instead of protecting themselves and/or others with a way that will stop the attacker immediately?

He saw the weapons being used. The guards were there with him for an extended period of time. It's not as if they appeared out of nowhere and simply shot him.

He was armed and was willing to kill a garda; shortly after almost killing a civilian. He made his choice when he had the gun pointed at him and still decided to make an attack.

ILoveYourVibes

weldoninhio wrote: »

Sharing a video or not won't bring him back. Best to keep sharing it. The more people who see it, the more that see that the Gardai did their best and only took action when needed.

That is not what is happening.

Its a divisive video. Its making some people very very angry.

Its also the last moments of a man's life.

I for one will report any account that shares it. As it breaks most rules on social media platforms anyway.

If it were YOUR son or brother ..would you want it being shared?

It would devastate me even more.

I couldnt bear it.

The family are innocent.

Not to mention it might be able to identify the guards involved. And it could be dangerous for THEM.

ThewhiteJesus

daheff wrote: »

Do you think not being in his right mind means the gardai should not defend themselves and prevent others being hurt or killed?

Like literally their job title is guardians of the peace.

of course i do, by non lethal force, not 15 men, 5 armed as has been pointed out and shot like a fox in a hunt once cornered, the shots were fired before any lunge as has been reported. One bullet missed and it was all done in full view of the family in the house. It was so unprofessional in my view and a failure on all fronts.

ohnonotgmail

Jake1 wrote: »

Fingal Communities against racism, very fcuking kindly giving advice to protesters
Sweet jesus.

Wear dark Clothing
Cover Identifying features such as scars tattooos.
Dont engage with Police.

Above are just some of the gems.. very worrying, almost as if they are telling them how not to be caught doing something...

https://mobile.twitter.com/FingalTogether/status/1344584406330171393/photo/1

Michael Finucane clearly hoping for some legal aid work from this

KyussB

Danzy wrote: »

Given his actions that day they couldn't risk him going in and killing anyone inside the house, taking hostages etc, barricading himself in in.

Given his past history, they couldn't he certain he didn't have a gun.

It's a sad state of affairs when a man can try slice a gay man's throat, beat another, threaten others and still be expected to just close his front door on the Guards.

Look, don't make shit up 'maybe he had a gun?!' etc. is just bullshit.

A person entering their own fucking home shouldn't be shot for it. Drop that attempt at justification.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

Again, you have not answered.

If there is/was anarchy/mob violence that the Gardai cannot stop, can the sate deploy the army?

It's a simple yes/no answer

And btw, what defines anarchy?

Mob violence and mobs out of control committing crime?

It’s irrelevant because this will have been forgotten about before it ever reaches such a scale.

jackboy

ElJeffe wrote: »

Hopefully they go in heavy

That would be the worst thing to do. Whatever happens in the next few hours will be extensively recorded on video. The minimum amount of intervention would be better.

ohnonotgmail

KyussB wrote: »

Alright, fair enough - that is a clear and direct statement.

I don't agree with that - I think that when there is any possibility of the person being arrested in a non-lethal way, then they should be.

If the person is directly about to attack another civilian (the police aren't civilians), then it may be justified to shoot to stop him. I'm not yet convinced the bar was met for that justification here.

the life of a garda is as valuable as a civilian

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s irrelevant because this will have been forgotten about before it ever reaches such a scale.

Yes, likely

I was just wondering what options the state have IF it became out of control.

Witcher

walshb wrote: »

Again, you have not answered.

If there is/was anarchy/mob violence that the Gardai cannot stop, can the sate deploy the army?

It's a simple yes/no answer

And btw, what defines anarchy?

Mob violence and mobs out of control committing crime?

I've already told you, the army would have no power here. None. It's like the flutes saying get the army out at the start of the pandemic...for what? To scratch their nuts? They've no power of arrest or detention, they can't order a crowd to disperse. So what is the point of deploying them.

You're the one suggesting them so tell us what you think they could add to the current situation.

ThewhiteJesus

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Did he have mental illness? Did he really?
Cause I've met alot of scumbags who once they get caught or pulled up over something say everything under the sun.

A junkie who robs you is only a "poor addict" after all. Didn't mean it etc.

Well i don't know the family or anything, but from what i've read from the brothers statement, yes there is a history of such, and it was well know to the local Gardai.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Deploying the Defence Forces night be premature but they can be used as an aid to be civil power assisting AGS.

They assisted AGS in Limerick in the 2000's and decent people like me were grateful to them and AGS. Scumbags were a little reluctant to kick off at a checkpoint when the people manning the checkpoint had Steyrs.

People had enough of the scum in Limerick back then and there was a heavy crackdown. People here despised the gangs, scum are scum.

Danzy

ToddDameron wrote: »

Dublin Live is responsible for the "thug" label that everyone is so angry about. A quick Google shows that they are constantly calling everyone thugs. An obscure click bait media group is hardly representative of Irish media yet this is what people are running with.

Even by the tough standards of hoods in West Dublin, he was a thug.

He was always going to end up killing someone or being killed.

Scotty #

KyussB wrote: »

A person entering their own fucking home shouldn't be shot for it. Drop that attempt at justification.

But he wasn't entering his home, he was exiting it, while attempting to stab people.

enricoh

Jake1 wrote: »

Fingal Communities against racism, very fcuking kindly giving advice to protesters
Sweet jesus.

Wear dark Clothing
Cover Identifying features such as scars tattooos.
Dont engage with Police.

Above are just some of the gems.. very worrying, almost as if they are telling them how not to be caught doing something...

https://mobile.twitter.com/FingalTogether/status/1344584406330171393/photo/1

How are this lot funded? If they get a fiver from the taxpayer it's a disgrace. Is that pat finucanes son the solicitor?

ThewhiteJesus

Witcher wrote: »

I've already told you, the army would have no power here. None. It's like the flutes saying get the army out at the start of the pandemic...for what? To scratch their nuts? They've no power of arrest or detention.

as things stand of course you are correct, but if told to do so by the government giving them power it could, very unlikely but it could.

walshb

Witcher wrote: »

I've already told you, the army would have no power here. None. It's like the flutes saying get the army out at the start of the pandemic...for what? To scratch their nuts? They've no power of arrest or detention.

Ok,

so I take your deflection as a no....the state cannot use the army IF anarchy is happening that our Gardai cannot control..?!

Leave it there...

I just thought that an "option" for the state was defence forces/army.

malinheader

Tzardine wrote: »

You know that they were pretty much all born here right?

Yep. And I know most of them hate everything about my country and see themselves as underprivileged and very entitled.

whisky_galore

Aubrey Faint Limo wrote: »

Deploying the Defence Forces night be premature but they can be used as an aid to be civil power assisting AGS.

They assisted AGS in Limerick in the 2000's and decent people like me were grateful to them and AGS. Scumbags were a little reluctant to kick off at a checkpoint when the people manning the checkpoint had Steyrs.

People had enough of the scum in Limerick back then and there was a heavy crackdown. People here despised the gangs, scum are scum.

But they were white scum, without a trendy hashtag, activist supporters and elected officials giving tacit approval.

enricoh

enricoh wrote: »

How are this lot funded? If they get a fiver from the taxpayer it's a disgrace. Is that pat finucanes son the solicitor?

The very one. Im surprised to see his name attached .

Bigmac1euro

Is there any truth to the 32 convictions he had? Which I read on this forum.
Not sure of the guards needed to fire the last shot as I think he was going down and facing away from them.

It’s a sad situation but unfortunately that man chose that life.

Kraftwerk

How to act like a thug and get away with it. Brought to you by the wonderful people at Fingal Together


https://twitter.com/FingalTogether/status/1344584406330171393?s=20

ILoveYourVibes

https://www.independent.ie/videos/george-nkencho-protesters-walk-through-blanchardstown-shopping-centre-and-take-knee-in-front-of-traffic-39918285.html

The Irish times has reported no rioting they report a peaceful protest ..with a take the knee.

KyussB

Danzy wrote: »

That's very disturbing thinking.

Do you not think their life has value?

They might not make as much as the bank manager but they have a right to go home alive.

The guards are meant to be trained and equipped to defend against knife attacks (they had ample time to prepare in this case, 2 hours by the sounds of it...), and to disarm and arrest people with a knife in a non-lethal way - that's what they're trained and paid for, and are supposed to be trained to do this without creating risk for themselves or others.

If they fail, then they've either fucked up, encountered an impossible situation (rare...), or they've encountered a new scenario which they need to learn from and train better from, so that something like this never happens again.

That's the very high standard we hold the guards up to, and which they need to meet.

Odyssey 2005

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Well i don't know the family or anything, but from what i've read from the brothers statement, yes there is a history of such, and it was well know to the local Gardai.

:):)

Tzardine

malinheader wrote: »

Yep. And I know most of them hate everything about my country and see themselves as underprivileged and very entitled.

That's the feeling of a lot of people in that age group. But that does not make them "foreign"