George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

walshb

Witcher wrote: »

How many Gardai do you think are available to deal with this? Blanchardstown is the busiest district in Dublin and now there's this ontop with no extra Gardai to deal with it.

Are you seriously suggesting that "it is what it is?"

If the Gardai cannot address this, should we just accept it, and hope for the best?

Should our justice system not try help here?

gibgodsman

KyussB wrote: »

Again: The newspaper of record, the Irish Times, states the police shot first BEFORE he lunged.

So get the facts straight.

There is literally a video of him lunging at the guards before any shots are fired, get YOUR facts straight

Omackeral

Tzardine wrote: »

Of course it is. Horrible scumbags attacking a woman (or of course anybody) like that.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They didn't.

Why did you say this? At best, you don't know because you haven't seen it. Why categorically say they didn't? What's your mindset or logic with this post. Thanks in advance.







They did, by the way.

gormdubhgorm

KyussB wrote: »

Actually, that on its own is not. The police are held to very high standards and have to follow procedure in situations like this - and if there is even the remotest doubt that their procedure led to an avoidable death, then it must be scrutinized and updated to prevent that in the future.

You seem like a studenty type. It is all obvious to you at a distance and reads very bookish. Yet in reality on the basis of the facts given you seem to be really struggling to find fault with the Gardai's actions. Mostly based on the abstract or in hindsight, and a person who can comment on a highly pressurised situation from a very, very, very safe distance. So safe in fact it is in hindsight. Not even in the same place or time. Nice and safe somewhere else typing on a keyboard after the event has occurred.

Meanwhile two distraught families now (both Garda and victim) have to get on with their lives long after you have moved on to the next thread of interest.

handlemaster

Look the guy was given ever opportunity to surrender. Its a better outcome than an innocent member of the public getting killed and that includes Gardai. These protests are just the people out to cause trouble and trying to profit from it, i.e. if enough people protest and violently they will be able to rob places. I would nearly bet on it if the shutters on the SPAR shop werent down the place would be cleaned out. Why are they there anyhow the shop keeper was attached with a knife .

KyussB

KyussB wrote: »

If you think police shooting someone because "maybe [he'll] get a gun" is a valid justification, then we both fundamentally and irrecoverably disagree on what justifies shooting someone - personally I think that's an absurd justification that can be used to justify almost any shooting...

I want the police, all of them, to go home safe the same as every civilian in a circumstance like this - but we train them and pay them to uphold very high standards in how they deal with circumstances like this - and if we fail to uphold those standards, it harms the police and civlians both, as well as threatening to erode the quality of the overall police force, in a way that can be misused corruptly against the overall population if we let standards drop enough.

That's why we're supposed to hold them to an extremely high standard, here.

You can dislike the outcome if you want, but refusal to see it as the only option they were left with is ignorant.

Elliejo

So you were at the scene and know, without any doubt, exactly what happened and in what order? The Irish Times reporters were also there right beside you witnessing the same events? Sure case closed before it has even opened with such brilliant eyewitness reports.

Witcher

walshb wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that "it is what it is?"

What would you like them to do? Will we knit Gardai?

completedit

We need to hold people responsible for their actions. These protests, the narrative of the victimized black man, putting blame on the Garda, it all completely misses the point of what makes a society work.

99.99% of people, white or black, will never go into a shop and 2 hours later end up shot dead. It won't happen because we agree to the societal contact to treat others with respect.

We have to face repercussions for our actions or the whole thing would probably crumble pretty soon. Not that I believe that most people are bad, but eventually if it wasn't some law enforcement taking these type of characters out, the rest of society would step in and ensure that the order was upheld.

Gruffalux

KyussB wrote: »

Again: The newspaper of record, the Irish Times, states the police shot first BEFORE he lunged.

So get the facts straight.

Hopefully - if it is the case that the Irish Times have said this - they are correct, because if they are NOT, or if they do not know the truth, then they are party to inflaming a protest situation that is not good given how much Covid there is in the community, and the Irish Times is also, like several notable Irish politicians this day, getting a kick in against the Garda Siochana whose members responded to a very dangerous situation. This was not a rash or racist act. The police spent 2 hours talking him down. If there has been some error in the procedures - and I am not saying there was - then it should be found out given due process. But I sincerely doubt that any garda headed out yesterday to shoot someone dead. And the Irish Times should not publish that the garda shot first unless they have 100% conclusive proof of it.

Danzy

KyussB wrote: »

If the police have had reportedly had ~2 hours to figure out how to deal with this guy, then they have practically the entire arsenal at Blanchardstown police station and beyond to use, to figure it the fuck out - not just whatever pepper spray and tazers they have on them at the scene.

If they were Barristers or big business owners or well to do, would you expect them to deal with a machete waving psychopath with just their dik in hand.

Certainly not I'd say.

ILoveYourVibes

Gruffalux wrote: »

Hopefully - if it is the case that the Irish Times have said this - they are correct, because if they are NOT, or if they do not know the truth, then they are party to inflaming a protest situation that is not good given how much Covid there is in the community, and the Irish Times is also, like several notable Irish politicians this day, getting a kick in against the Garda Siochana whose members responded to a very dangerous situation. This was not a rash or racist act. The police spent 2 hours talking him down. If there has been some error in the procedures - and I am not saying there was - then it should be found out given due process. But I sincerely doubt that any garda headed out yesterday to shoot someone dead. And the Irish Times should not publish that the garda shot first unless they have 100% conclusive proof of it.

That is a fair and balanced post.

I agree with you.

The Royal Scam

DeanAustin wrote: »

No one got attacked in those videos. The Garda van got something thrown at it alright and it's scumbag carry on but no one was physically attacked.

So do you think it is acceptable roaming around intimidating innocent people during a massive pandemic. It does not matter what colour people are. I hope the Garda nip this in the bud. People are stressed and worn-out enough without this. I really have sympathy with the Garda having to deal with this.

tayto lover

KyussB wrote: »

Because of all the police with guns pointed at their family member?

Bull.
It’s more likely they were in fear of him. He had history.
Didn’t his brother watch from an upstairs window and also failed to go out and ask him to put down the knife. Now he’s all over Twitter the fake.
Got what he deserved.

KyussB

KyussB wrote: »

The guy was cornered and they had 2 hours - and they didn't even try something as basic as armoured police with riot shields and batons?

They didn’t have two hours. They were called to the scene at spar at 12:15 and he was shot dead at 12:35pm.

Donald Trump

KyussB wrote: »

Again: The newspaper of record, the Irish Times, states the police shot first BEFORE he lunged.

So get the facts straight.

Well that would just indicate that a well trained and highly prescient Guard took the shot. Because the video can clearly show him swinging his big **** off machete very close to a guards head. If the Guard had waited a half second later, his colleague would also be dead today.



Or perhaps you think that the deceased was only intending to being the guards back for tea and biscuits, and later changed his mind only after one of them realised he was a black lad and shot him?


"Good heavens. What was that bang I must ask myself? Oh no, it appears that this gentleman has discharged his firearm into me.... Let me consider my options. I could perhaps continue inside to get the kitkats and tea..... Actually no, given the recent development, perhaps it would be incredibly rude of me not to try to decapitate one of them. Here goes.........! "

ohnonotgmail

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It isn't. But it has been reasonably substantiated by a national newspaper.

And its the only narrative that has.

The only other narratives along the lines you are suggesting ..are the rabble and chinese whispers on social media.

And that narrative is just gossip.

the irish times watched the same video as we did. they know no more than anybody here. they dont know what happened immediately before the filming started.

ILoveYourVibes

Danzy wrote: »

If they were Barristers or big business owners or well to do, would you expect them to deal with a machete waving psychopath with just their dik in hand.

Certainly not I'd say.

For me its the whole idea of 15 men against one man.

I mean 15 men can't disarm ONE man?

And they couldn't taser him ....it failed ...and so did the pepper spray?

Is he superman?

I mean there are instances of a couple of guards being able to disarm a guy with a sword in Ireland etc.

Donald Trump

completedit wrote: »

We need to hold people responsible for their actions. These protests, the narrative of the victimized black man, putting blame on the Garda, it all completely misses the point of what makes a society work.

99.99% of people, white or black, will never go into a shop and 2 hours later end up shot dead. It won't happen because we agree to the societal contact to treat others with respect.

We have to face repercussions for our actions or the whole thing would probably crumble pretty soon. Not that I believe that most people are bad, but eventually if it wasn't some law enforcement taking these type of characters out, the rest of society would step in and ensure that the order was upheld.

Do you bring a machete with you normally when going to your local spar or Post Office?

gibgodsman

KyussB wrote: »

The guy was cornered and they had 2 hours - and they didn't even try something as basic as armoured police with riot shields and batons?

Again all lies, complete and utter lies, he was chased for 2 hours, they werent just standing with him for 2 hours, he was confronted by UNARMED guarda first who he threatened with a knife and they had to back of as he fled to his estate, and only there did the armed support arrive, to which he CLEARLY attempts to attack them with a knife, AFTER a taser was deployed and failed and pepper spray was deployed and failed, but yeah, sure lets wait for Riot police to arrive while a crazed, and in his own familys words MENTALLY UNSTABLE person attempts to hack and slash at Guards

JPCN1

KyussB wrote: »

Again: The newspaper of record, the Irish Times, states the police shot first BEFORE he lunged.

So get the facts straight.

I would dispute that the Irish Times is still the paper of record anymore.

They also have no more facts than anyone yet and will have to await the report like the rest of us.

gary550

KyussB wrote: »

The guy was cornered and they had 2 hours - and they didn't even try something as basic as armoured police with riot shields and batons?

The most certainly did not have 2 hours, think it was more like 20 minutes....

ILoveYourVibes

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the irish times watched the same video as we did.

I don't know that.

There are hundreds of versions of the video. To be honest ..people here have seen differing versions. So there is no use in arguing.

Tzardine

Donald Trump wrote: »

Do you bring a machete with you normally when going to your local spar or Post Office?

"Its my money, I just didn't want to fill in the forms"

ohnonotgmail

DeanAustin wrote: »

No one got attacked in those videos. The Garda van got something thrown at it alright and it's scumbag carry on but no one was physically attacked.

they are scumbags in that video. multiple offences committed.

ExMachina1000

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

For me its the whole idea of 15 men against one man.

I mean 15 men can't disarm ONE man?

And they couldn't taser him ....it failed ...and so did the pepper spray?

Is he superman?

I mean there are instances of a couple of guards being able to disarm a guy with a sword in Ireland etc.

Off his nut on drugs. Crack cocaine the autopsy report will see. Have a peep at YouTube. There are videos of people high as a kite getting hit with a car/bat/taser/pepper spray and just carrying on

ILoveYourVibes

gary550 wrote: »

The most certainly did not have 2 hours, think it was more like 20 minutes....

I agree.

there are no reports of it being 2 hours.

Larbre34

KyussB wrote: »

Except you have no evidence for this - and the evidence and our newspaper of record puts the police as shooting first - meaning you have this exactly backwards, and are repeating a falsehood.

Troll away.

Nkencho raided two shops.
Nkencho injured at least one member of staff in the process.
Nkencho resisted arrest when confronted by unarmed uniformed Gardaí in a busy public space.
Nkencho was trailed by uniformed Gardaí while still armed. Armed Garda units joined the situation.
Nkencho returned gradually home, still armed.
Gardaí tried for some time to get Nkencho to give up his weapon.
Gardaí deployed tasers and other non lethal weapons to attempt to subdue a crazed Nkencho, but they were unsuccessful.
Nkencho lunged at one or more of the Gardaí with his bladed weapon.
A an armed Garda discharged his or her weapon, likely a P226 semi-automatic pistol or MP7 sub-machine pistol set to semi automatic mode to protect his colleagues after all other approaches failed.
One or more rounds impacted Nkencho and he later succumbed to his injuries.

Now, I wasn't there and there will be a number of inquiries and inquests, but I'd be shocked if the outcomes of those official processes vary greatly from what I've said, based on all the published reportage available.

So, will you admit you are engaged in something between wishful thinking and contrarianism just for the sake of it so we can get on with our day?

Lougarden

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I just dont think a group of mostly white youths would spare their new years to go to a socially progressive blm protest ..call me cynical.

It's not a socially progressive blm protest though. It's a mob of anti-social people with a thirst for trouble. The fact that they decided to intimidate and 'protest' at the Spar shop & Blanch centre screams of the itch they had for any reason to 'justifiably' cause disturbances.

walshb

Witcher wrote: »

What would you like them to do? Will we knit Gardai?

Ok, so gangs roaming around interfering with people and businesses and causing harm and threatening, we just accept it? Allow it happen, and hopefully it passes over?

Who said anything about knitting Gardai?

You seem obsessed with numbers, and Garda resources.....

And you seem irritated that ordinary folks are asking why our Gardai cannot tackle this...

I am asking if we as a people should not have backup, emergency measures to tackle this? If your resources numbers theory is so right....

Your answer to it is the same we don't have the resources....that is not an answer when gangs are causing trouble., free to roam and cause trouble with impunity.