George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

nullzero

newmember? wrote: »

You know this how...?

Because it's clearly true.

Do you have ANY evidence (not your opinion, not confirmation bias) to the contrary?

verizon

verizon wrote: »

This was my thinking anyway. As much as it would be great to shut down such activities in a firm manner, there would be a bigger revolt today as a consequence.


I do hope Gardai are investigating the available footage and not letting it slide by.

I’d say the spent yesterday doing exactly that, just getting a head start. Hope they found enough names and addresses to start ruining a few New Years for these gob****es.

They’ll love that sitting down for dinner - knock on the door for Blanch Gardaí about yesterday’s antics.

If there’s any God or Karma in the world, this is happening right now :pac:

Plumbthedepths

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Because there is zero empirical evidence to substantiate claims that members of AGS have deliberately targeted and killed black people in the past.

However, there is plenty of evidence to indicate that AGS will use live ammunition in circumstances where there is a legitimate percieved immediate threat to life.

Thats probably why.

I saw a comment on this or another thread that sums up what happened to deceased in a very concise and simple manner. “ play stupid games win stupid prizes”.
This lad was no victim.

Wombatman

Clearly people have already made up their minds and taken sides. The GSOC and internal Garda investigation have only started however. I expect they will look for witnesses and evidence and focus on some of the following:

What was the nature of the altercation in the Eurospar and Post Office? How did it start? Who was involved and injured? What were the scale of the injuries? What weapons were used used in the fracas? Who did what when?

Where did the knife come from? What type of knife was it?

When and how many times was Nkencho pepper sprayed? Did the pepper spray make contact with face and eyes? Why didn't pepper spray have the desired effect?

What strategy\protocol were the ERU following? Is there body cam footage available? If so, what does this footage show?

What dialogue took place between Nkencho and the Gardai? What dialogue took place between Gardaí and others (Nkencho family, shop employees) involved during the incident?

What are the timelines involved?

When and how many times was Nkencho tased? Did the taser make proper contact with Nkencho? Why didn't the taser have the desired effect?

How did the shooting happen? Who fired when? What did Nkencho do to instigate the shooting in the final minutes? Where was he hit? How many shots were fired? What were the positions of the shooters relative to Nkencho? Was proper protocol followed?

What was Nkencho's background and history, including mental and criminal?

What was the background and history of the Gardai involved?

I expect we don't know the whole story yet and many significant factors have gone unreported.

I have probably left out a load of other stuff that will have to be considered too.

I think it pretty foolish to be passing final judgement on Nkencho or the Gardai until we get all the facts.

People on both sides need to cool their jets, consider only verified facts and wait for more facts to be established. Don't let your biases get in the way of fact.

Mimon

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The inside of your head must be a very strange place if you think 99% of the commentary on this thread is racist.

It's cultural fascism. Don't agree with someone so you label them as racist or whatever.

Wombatman

Wombatman wrote: »

Clearly people have already made up their minds and taken sides. The GSOC and internal Garda investigation have only started however. I expect they will look for witnesses and evidence and focus on some of the following:

What was the nature of the altercation in the Eurospar and Post Office? How did it start? Who was involved and injured? What were the scale of the injuries? What weapons were used used in the fracas? Who did what when?

Where did the knife come from? What type of knife was it?

When and how many times was Nkencho pepper sprayed? Did the pepper spray make contact with face and eyes? Why didn't pepper spray have the desired effect?

What strategy\protocol were the ERU following? Is there body cam footage available? If so, what does this footage show?

What dialogue took place between Nkencho and the Gardai? What dialogue took place between Gardaí and others (Nkencho family, shop employees) involved during the incident?

What are the timelines involved?

When and how many times was Nkencho tased? Did the taser make proper contact with Nkencho? Why didn't the taser have the desired effect?

How did the shooting happen? Who fired when? What did Nkencho do to instigate the shooting in the final minutes? Where was he hit? How many shots were fired? What were the positions of the shooters relative to Nkencho? Was proper protocol followed?

What was Nkencho's background and history, including mental and criminal?

What was the background and history of the Gardai involved?

I expect we don't know the whole story yet and many significant factors have gone unreported.

I have probably left out a load of other stuff that will have to be considered too.

I think it pretty foolish to be passing final judgement on Nkencho or the Gardai until we get all the facts.

People on both sides need to cool their jets, consider only verified facts and wait for more facts to be established. Don't let your biases get in the way of fact.

Well, it wasn't the ERU that was involved and gardai don't have body cams.
I would suggest everybody wait for the investigation to be completed. Too many experts in front of keyboards

Plumbthedepths

Mimon wrote: »

It's cultural fascism. Don't agree with someone so you label them as racist or whatever.

Or you’re talking sh*te and can’t defend your position.

newmember2

nullzero wrote: »

...

Do you have ANY evidence (not your opinion, not confirmation bias) to the contrary?

Indeed, that is my question to you. Your post was written like a statement of fact. I'd like to know how you know these facts seeing as everyone else has to wait on the findings of an investigation by GSOC.

youtube!

I think the guards need to come up with better ways to disarm thugs like this in future, surely there are things they can do rather than just follow him home . In this day and age with technology I can think of several non lethal alternatives

1) Directed Sonic attack

2) Drone could drop a net on him

3) A net shot from a weapon

4) Plastic bullets or even a barrage of pellets

5) Gas attack again from a canister or weapon and again directed ( I know this one could be tricky but still worth trying

6) If all else fails get a 5 metre two by four and swing it at the buggers legs , take him down . Then restrain

7) A good lasso

I’m sure there are even more ways to stop scum like this without killing them ( although he’s certainly no loss to Irish society but it might stop the bloody unwarranted outrage from SOME and I say SOME members of the black community, reason I say this is because I’ve black friends who are totally with the guards on this one and are actually embarrassed by the reaction of some of their fellow black people , of course they cannot speak up but I’ve talked to them and they are decent folk who hate getting involved with this .

E36Ross

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=199018858582800&id=110185577466129

Facebook link with a video of some of the "BLM" protesters, Definately no racist tones from them against whites at all, Very peaceful community getting there point across. #Sarcasm

square ball

George Nkencho's death was tragic and unfortunate but completely avoidable. If he had complied with the Gardai he would not now be dead. His own actions led to his death. Obviously very tough for his family and friends especially the manner and how sudden it happened.

My understanding of the events is that he got up in the morning went down to his local supermarket armed with a machete and assaulted at least one person. He was followed home by unarmed Gardai who were unable to de-escalate the situation or get him to surrender the weapon he was carrying.

Then the Emergency Response Unit were called and they tried unsuccessfully to de-escalate the situation or surrender the weapon he was carrying. When that didn't work they tried using non lethal force in the way or tasers and pepper spray. This also did not work. It looks like they were left no choice by George Nkencho but to use deadly force as he looked.

I have sympathy for everyone involved. George Nkencho, his family and friends, all the staff working in the supermarket and all the Gardai who were called out as part of their job. Most people involved will be traumatized by what happened and it will have an effect on them going forward.

I think it is disgusting for people to use this tragedy, George Nkencho's family and the families grief to push an agenda when racism or cultural bias from the Gardai had no bearing on what happened. A lot of people are trying to make themselves relevant and are copying people in other parts of the world and manufacturing an issue that isn't there.

I would like to know if people living in Ireland from other ethnicities or backgrounds find that Ireland is systematically racist? Do we have a problem that most Irish people are either oblivious to or don't care about?

I understand that individuals have probably encountered racism but do most people from other backgrounds think they don't have the same opportunities in terms of access to education, healthcare, employment, housing, etc.?

Collie D

newmember? wrote: »

Indeed, that is my question to you. Your post was written like a statement of fact. I'd like to know how you know these facts seeing as everyone else has to wait on the findings of an investigation by GSOC.

Guy waves knife at Guards = guy gets shot.

Guy doesn’t wave knife at Guards = guy doesn’t get shot.

Are either of these statements false in your opinion?

Because in mine this is what it all comes down to. Completely agenda free.

punisher5112

I know now what's needed.....

Disband the Gardai.
Cut funding.
Get rid of the cars and give them a push bike.
Bring in social workers.
Additional to social workers bring in free hugs.
If one must shoot then shoot the knife not the person as the knife is responsible.
#knivelivesmatter.....

carq

Rte lunchtime news - lets see how its reported


Edit- 5 minutes news for some reason. No mention of the story.

amacca

Wombatman wrote: »

Clearly people have already made up their minds and taken sides. The GSOC and internal Garda investigation have only started however. I expect they will look for witnesses and evidence and focus on some of the following:

What was the nature of the altercation in the Eurospar and Post Office? How did it start? Who was involved and injured? What were the scale of the injuries? What weapons were used used in the fracas? Who did what when?

Where did the knife come from? What type of knife was it?

When and how many times was Nkencho pepper sprayed? Did the pepper spray make contact with face and eyes? Why didn't pepper spray have the desired effect?

What strategy\protocol were the ERU following? Is there body cam footage available? If so, what does this footage show?

What dialogue took place between Nkencho and the Gardai? What dialogue took place between Gardaí and others (Nkencho family, shop employees) involved during the incident?

What are the timelines involved?

When and how many times was Nkencho tased? Did the taser make proper contact with Nkencho? Why didn't the taser have the desired effect?

How did the shooting happen? Who fired when? What did Nkencho do to instigate the shooting in the final minutes? Where was he hit? How many shots were fired? What were the positions of the shooters relative to Nkencho? Was proper protocol followed?

What was Nkencho's background and history, including mental and criminal?

What was the background and history of the Gardai involved?

I expect we don't know the whole story yet and many significant factors have gone unreported.

I have probably left out a load of other stuff that will have to be considered too.

I think it pretty foolish to be passing final judgement on Nkencho or the Gardai until we get all the facts.

People on both sides need to cool their jets, consider only verified facts and wait for more facts to be established. Don't let your biases get in the way of fact.

I agree...but that's a difficult thing to do when the incident is immediately seized upon as a racist killing and things that are known about the lead up to the shooting are ignored in favour of no reporting or casting doubt on the gards involved.

The guy had a knife, he used it, he did not drop it...that shouldn't be left out or glossed over either.

A lot of our public representatives and media have a lot to answer for in my mind..........they either remain silent or tacitly support a false narrative/rhetoric before any investigation is done.....not to mention the bandwagoners conveniently turning the knife wielding man into a saint

nullzero

newmember? wrote: »

Indeed, that is my question to you. Your post was written like a statement of fact. I'd like to know how you know these facts seeing as everyone else has to wait on the findings of an investigation by GSOC.

This shooting wasn't something that happened in isolation with one armed Garda and George Nkencho with no onlookers.

The facts are that he attacked another human being with a knife (FACT), the Gardai interacted with him and did not rush to shooting him (FACT) but instead used a graduated approach which was not successful as George Nkencho would not be talked down(FACT).

There is no racial angle to any of this, he was not shot by racist police who wanted to kill him because he was black. He wasn't shot because he had a mental illness, and he certainly wasn't brandishing a butter knife.

What exactly from my original post are you taking issue with?

Yellow_Fern

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Im not sure when armed AGS turned up, might not have been until he got to the house. And really, an unarmed AGS member shouldnt be confronting an armed person.

In hindsight, they should have just run him over with a car while on the grass.

The problem is ensure everyone is a necessary distance away from me so they cant be charged by him. Not sure how much but at least 30 metres. The situation might seem stable but in any second he could sprint at someone and they might have to fire a shot before they have time to 'drive at him'. The gardai have been known to negotiate for days and I am suspect they would have done that here if they could, but in the video we can see him lunge at a garda and the garda stumble back and the assilant stumble forward so me to seems that they were in the dreaded life or death situation.

ThewhiteJesus

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Or you’re talking sh*te and can’t defend your position.

You can bring a horse to water Plumb, but you can’t make it drink.

Edit can anyone imagine a
Black person posting here and the abuse they would get if they disagreed with the loudest view here, lots are reading and will be ashamed to be Irish

piplip87

If you disagree with the mob on social media saying this is a racist attack you are labelled a far right racist. This is wrong. I like the cast majority of people in this country do not care what colour the scumbags skin was, what we we care about is that this man attacked people, he was going inside a house in a clearly distressed state and the Gardai had to act.

Those seeking to make this about race are doing exactly what they want. They want to divide this country along racial lines. They are playing right into the far rights hands and will drive many towards the right.

Paul Murphy for example has seen his first preference vote decrease due the many members of "right to free everything", getting back to employment and seeing that while he wants everything free they will be taxed to the hilt to pay for it. He has now gone full on Green and Eco socialist and is now courting the BLM movement in an effort to whip up a protest vote for himself.

Is there racism in Ireland ?Yes

Was this a racial motivated shooting ?No it was a scumbag who happened to be black, he was not a scumbag because he was black.

ThewhiteJesus

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I know , how’s your back from moving the goalposts so many times yesterday?

You must have the wrong forum plumb you looking for gaa forum ?

obi604

How did ye reckon the funeral will pan out with COVID and all?

Will hundreds turn up

amacca

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

You can bring a horse to water Plumb, but you can’t make it drink.

Edit can anyone imagine a
Black person posting here and the abuse they would get if they disagreed with the loudest view here, lots are reading and will be ashamed to be Irish

I wouldnt like to drink your particular brand of kool-aid

punisher5112

E36Ross wrote: »

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=199018858582800&id=110185577466129

Facebook link with a video of some of the "BLM" protesters, Definately no racist tones from them against whites at all, Very peaceful community getting there point across. #Sarcasm

Jesus holy Christ what have we done wrong.

I really feel for anyone caught up in those clips. Death threats and just pure scum is all I see in them clips....

This is very dangerous and what will it take for something to be done.

Wonderful the way the media isn't reporting anything at all now.
No mention of these thugs causing havoc, attacking people, cars, buses, Garda members and vehicles.

Gardai need to go in hard on this and now, if this is left it only gets worse.

Look at how they all leave yet hard working people living there have to put up with the nightmare of this and it's not safe.


This is now exactly what the BLM and antifa groups wanted, a race war.

I honestly think it's disgusting and vile and so so wrong.

I now feel unsafe in my own country and its only going to get worse.


Send in the public order unit, disperse and anyone not complying pick them up.

Government officials you have a hell of a lot to answer for.


I really really hope nobody is hurt or killed by these scum bag mobs....

malinheader

youtube! wrote: »

I think the guards need to come up with better ways to disarm thugs like this in future, surely there are things they can do rather than just follow him home . In this day and age with technology I can think of several non lethal alternatives

1) Directed Sonic attack

2) Drone could drop a net on him

3) A net shot from a weapon

4) Plastic bullets or even a barrage of pellets

5) Gas attack again from a canister or weapon and again directed ( I know this one could be tricky but still worth trying

6) If all else fails get a 5 metre two by four and swing it at the buggers legs , take him down . Then restrain

7) A good lasso

I’m sure there are even more ways to stop scum like this without killing them ( although he’s certainly no loss to Irish society but it might stop the bloody unwarranted outrage from SOME and I say SOME members of the black community, reason I say this is because I’ve black friends who are totally with the guards on this one and are actually embarrassed by the reaction of some of their fellow black people , of course they cannot speak up but I’ve talked to them and they are decent folk who hate getting involved with this .

Totally disagree with your solutions. Why should we go soft on people who have total disregard for safety and well being of other people. Gardai were 100% correct.
Might make the next scumbags think twice.

nullzero

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

You can bring a horse to water Plumb, but you can’t make it drink.

Edit can anyone imagine a
Black person posting here and the abuse they would get if they disagreed with the loudest view here, lots are reading and will be ashamed to be Irish

Pure self indulgent waffle.

This isn't a race issue not matter how hard you and your ilk attempt to steer it in that direction.

punisher5112

obi604 wrote: »

How did ye reckon the funeral will pan out with COVID and all?

Will hundreds turn up

1000s and nothing will be done as the government or Gardai won't touch them as they will use the race card.....

Everyone could see this coming so welcome to America people

ThewhiteJesus

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

You have a history of making untrue generalizations against Irish people

Untrue in the mind of a bigot perhaps.

ExMachina1000

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Untrue in the mind of a bigot perhaps.

I"m Irish and agree 100% with the op, obviously not everyone but a large % of our population are self serving narcissistic twits"

You said this you divisive shīt stirrer

Plumbthedepths

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

You must have the wrong forum plumb you looking for gaa forum ?

Turn of phrase as I’m sure you are aware, similarly Wind Up Merchant is another turn of phrase I’m also sure you’re familiar with.

ThewhiteJesus

nullzero wrote: »

Pure self indulgent waffle.

This isn't a race issue not matter how hard you and your ilk attempt to steer it in that direction.

Me and my ilk, can you explain exactly what you mean by that to be
clear for all to read ?