George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

Wombatman

DwightSchrute1 wrote: »

Non Lethel weapons are not always 100% effective. It’s been stated already the George was pepper sprayed and tasered but continued threatening Gardai with a weapon. What else were the Gardai expected to do to bring this threat to an end without serious injury or death to the Gardai present.

Why weren't they effective in this instance?

nullzero

Wombatman wrote: »

I think Mr. FACT man is deviating from the FACTs somewhat once called out. Funny quip though. Glad you are enjoying yourself.

As posted by another poster on the previous page here is the official Garda statement relating to this incident ;

"A garda spokesman said yesterday: "At approximately 12.15pm, today December 30, 2020 Gardaí responded to reports of a public order incident involving a male, in his late twenties, armed with a knife at Hartstown Shopping Centre.

"During an incident at the EuroSpar business premises in Hartstown Shopping Centre a male staff member received facial injuries and is currently receiving medical attention in Connolly Memorial Hospital

"Subsequently a second public order incident was reported at a the Post Office in the Hartstown Shopping Centre.

"Uniform, unarmed Gardai responded to the scene and observed a male in possession of a knife. The male continued to threaten members of the public and unarmed Gardai with the knife.

"Gardai followed the male on foot and in vehicles from the Hartstown Shopping Centre towards Manorsfields Drive, Dublin 15.

"During this period Gardai were engaging with the male and encouraging him to drop the weapon.

"Members of the Armed Support Unit arrived at a scene in Manorfields Drive, Dublin 15.

"The Armed Support Unit were also threatened with a knife and implemented a graduated response where the use of less-lethal force options (taser and OC spray) was initially administered in an effort to resolve the incident.

"The less-lethal use of force options were unsuccessful.

"At approximately 12.35pm a member of the Armed Support Unit discharged a number of shots from his official firearm shooting the male.".

Those are the FACTS. Nothing has been deviated from. You have an axe to grind, sadly for you, you're ill equiped to do so.

If you think asking questions about issues such as the potential for a taser to have malfunctioned etc are calling somebody out you need to try harder.

DeanAustin

Davaeo09 wrote: »

Well said
To the people assuming innocence do yourselves a favor and actually watch the footage before going along with the rest of your flock.

I’m far from assuming innocence. I’ve watched the footage, I can’t see what he’s holding. Either way, he put himself in a situation where he risked being killed by the Gardai.

I’m just questioning the language and conclusions some people are drawing based on very little evidence.

Shanotheslayer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

he smashed up the shop manager so why would that surprise you?

There's a difference. Clearly.

Tea drinker

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

This will be my last post as I will get banned for not agreeing with the mass,
But I ask you to consider this, read through the absolute hatred in this thread, it’s not directed at this one man, it’s now all of them all the blacks and all Nigerians all immigrants, ask yourself why.
Good day

little to no hatred here in the 20 or so pages I have read, maybe you see (or feel) something I don't (or maybe the mods are doing their job cleaning up the dross)
It's ironic someone is claiming the right wing has suddenly took over boards, and will start banning left wing commentators, It's conspiracy theory / self pitying fantasy.

jrosen

Ive seen some footage but its from a distance. While I cant see the exact object he has in his hands its clear in the clip I saw he lunged at the guard closest to him.

I would rather see a criminal be injured that a guard.

Comments about mental illness are irrelevant at this stage because how would the police have known? His family were more interested in filming the incident than offering any sort of support. I cant imagine seeing my own son in the garden welding a knife, being approached by armed guards and thinking it was a good time to whip out my phone.

One less threat on the streets as far as im concerned.

Davaeo09

Wombatman wrote: »

Why weren't they effective in this instance?

Probably due to some sort of stimulant one would imagine.
Most people fall like a sack of potatoes when tazered.

Had the guards failed to exhaust all other options this would be a legitimate problem.
As others stated above I think people seem to prefer the idea of the men doing a days work DYING instead of this clearly troubled individual.

Plumbthedepths

Wombatman wrote: »

I think Mr. FACT man is deviating from the FACTs somewhat once called out. Funny quip though. Glad you are enjoying yourself.

It’s a fact the lad in question attempted to rob a shop and injured an employee in the process. It’s also fact he had a weapon and refused to drop it. It is also fact that he lunged at a member of AGS thereby giving the armed guard no option but to act in defence of his colleagues and the public. It’s also a fact he’s dead because of his own stupidity.

DwightSchrute1

Wombatman wrote: »

Why weren't they effective in this instance?

Can’t say why they didn’t work in this instance, but drugs or mental health problems or a combination of both can render pepper spray and a taser ineffective.

givyjoe

DeanAustin wrote: »

How am I being disingenuous. Whether it was a knife or machete, I wouldn’t condemn the guard at this point. If someone’s waving a knife at me and I’m the guard, I’m likely to shoot id imagine.

I just don’t see how anyone can draw the conclusion it was a machete based on a grainy WhatsApp video taken from a couple of hundred yards away. Especially when the Garda statement explicitly mentions a knife more than once.

But facts are being embellished all over the place here.

It's an absolutely huge knife, so big it's visible at a distance!! You're clearly trying to downplay the danger/size of the weapon, the obvious inference is an over reaction by the guards. A machete, or an equally sizes knife/weapon clearly conveys the actual danger the guards faced, knife doesn't. When I think of knife, I don't immediately think of a circa 12" plus blade.

Discodog

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Can I just point out that in the past 20 years;

6 people have been shot dead by Gardai.

6 people that were shot dead, were armed and actively involved I'm endangering lives.

5 of those were white Irish. Thats right, this is the first non white, non Irish person!

16 Gardai have given their lives in the line of duty

Of those 16, 6 were intentionally killed by criminals that the Gardai were attempting to stop.

Of those 6, the past 3 were deliberately shot dead.

Gardai have been killed in a greater number then Gardai kill. The number of deliberate killings is equal. How the **** can anyone claim either race or trigger happiness is involved?

You, of all people, know that you can't generalise. Every incident is unique & has to be investigated.

Your evidence suggests that, in general, Gardai aren't "trigger happy".

Your comment regarding colour fails to take into account that it's only relatively recently that larger numbers of a different race appeared in Ireland.

You, as an investigator, should have an open mind & welcome a full & thorough investigation into what happened, why it happened, was someone at fault & how do we prevent similar incidents.

nullzero

givyjoe wrote: »

It's an absolutely huge knife, so big it's visible at a distance!! You're clearly trying to downplay the danger/size of the weapon, the obvious inference is an over reaction by the guards. A machete, or an equally sizes knife/weapon clearly conveys the actual danger the guards faced, knife doesn't. When I think of knife, I don't immediately think of a circa 12" plus blade.

His brother has claimed that he was holding a butter knife. This has been circulated as fact in a number of media outlets.
We truly live in a post fact world.

Wombatman

DwightSchrute1 wrote: »

Can’t say why they didn’t work in this instance, but drugs or mental health problems or a combination of both can render pepper spray and a taser ineffective.

Many factors can render them ineffective. Why only list those two I wonder?

DeanAustin

givyjoe wrote: »

It's an absolutely huge knife, so big it's visible at a distance!! You're clearly trying to downplay the danger/size of the weapon, the obvious inference is an over reaction by the guards. A machete, or an equally sizes knife/weapon clearly conveys the actual danger the guards faced, knife doesn't. When I think of knife, I don't immediately think of a circa 12" plus blade.

Don’t project please. I’m not inferring an over reaction by the guards at all. I’ve explicitly said that whatever he was holding, it was a dangerous weapon and he lunged at the guards and put himself in a position where he risked being killed. And I’ve explicitly said that I’d have shot if I was in a similar position to the guard based on what I’ve seen.

nullzero

Wombatman wrote: »

Many factors can render them ineffective. Why only list those two I wonder?

What are you inferring exactly?

DwightSchrute1

Wombatman wrote: »

Many factors can render them ineffective. Why only list those two I wonder?

That’s the only two I could think of. Please enlighten me as to the other factors.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

*BORING THREAD CONTRIBUTION KLAXON*

I’m reserving judgement on this until it’s investigated properly. An inquiry will probably happen. Until it’s investigated, nobody should jump to conclusions. My initial gut tells me though that the Gardaí are generally not trigger-happy and this not America. But we shall see. It’s kinda annoying how it’s being hijacked by BOTH sides.

Wombatman

nullzero wrote: »

As posted by another poster on the previous page here is the official Garda statement relating to this incident ;

"A garda spokesman said yesterday: "At approximately 12.15pm, today December 30, 2020 Gardaí responded to reports of a public order incident involving a male, in his late twenties, armed with a knife at Hartstown Shopping Centre.

"During an incident at the EuroSpar business premises in Hartstown Shopping Centre a male staff member received facial injuries and is currently receiving medical attention in Connolly Memorial Hospital

"Subsequently a second public order incident was reported at a the Post Office in the Hartstown Shopping Centre.

"Uniform, unarmed Gardai responded to the scene and observed a male in possession of a knife. The male continued to threaten members of the public and unarmed Gardai with the knife.

"Gardai followed the male on foot and in vehicles from the Hartstown Shopping Centre towards Manorsfields Drive, Dublin 15.

"During this period Gardai were engaging with the male and encouraging him to drop the weapon.

"Members of the Armed Support Unit arrived at a scene in Manorfields Drive, Dublin 15.

"The Armed Support Unit were also threatened with a knife and implemented a graduated response where the use of less-lethal force options (taser and OC spray) was initially administered in an effort to resolve the incident.

"The less-lethal use of force options were unsuccessful.

"At approximately 12.35pm a member of the Armed Support Unit discharged a number of shots from his official firearm shooting the male.".

Those are the FACTS. Nothing has been deviated from. You have an axe to grind, sadly for you, you're ill equiped to do so.

If you think asking questions about issues such as the potential for a taser to have malfunctioned etc are calling somebody out you need to try harder.

Good man. So what about this?

nullzero wrote: »

This shooting wasn't something that happened in isolation with one armed Garda and George Nkencho with no onlookers.

The facts are that he attacked another human being with a knife (FACT), the Gardai interacted with him and did not rush to shooting him (FACT) but instead used a graduated approach which was not successful as George Nkencho would not be talked down(FACT).

There is no racial angle to any of this, he was not shot by racist police who wanted to kill him because he was black. He wasn't shot because he had a mental illness, and he certainly wasn't brandishing a butter knife.

What exactly from my original post are you taking issue with?

Were you correct in saying he attacked someone with a knife based on the content on the Gardai statement? Yes or No will do. No need for a long winded apology.

rodDaly69

The brother doesn't know what he's gonna do now he has no "big bro".

But he does know if he finds the Garda he is going to "terminate" him.

He's also enjoying his time playing with the megaphone and whipping up his little crowd. Definitely the face of a heartbroken young angel.

Link: https://streamable.com/mwz0tt

amacca

Wombatman wrote: »

Why weren't they effective in this instance?

Who knows....but do you dispute the gards statement posted

Is it not factual, have they made something up

Was the guy not in the shop?

Did he not give facial injuries to the shop assistant

Did he not proceed to a post office

Did they not follow him and try to stop him

Did he not fail to drop the knife when asked


Or was all of this pretext for a racially motivated killing? And they deliberately made sure the there was no capsicum in the pepper spray and the teaser wasn't charged........

Im sure the lack of effectiveness of the teaser and pepper spray are something to be investigated....with the pepper spray it could have been they were too scared to get close enough to get it into his eyes due to the reach he would have with the weapon or maybe he was so high on something it didn't have the usual effect it would on a sane person?

Whatever the reason there are still a litany of other actions of this man that lead to his death

His actions clearly made him a danger to innocent people.

Signore Fancy Pants

Wombatman wrote: »

Why weren't they effective in this instance?

Why did the man arm himself with a weapon?
Why did he make his way to a shop with the weapon?
Why did he assault people?
Why did he not comply with AGS directions while walking back from the shop.
Why did he not comply with AGS directions while outside his house?
Why did his family allow an alleged mentally ill person with possible previous aggressive tendencies be unsupervised?
Why did his family allow an allegedly mentally ill person with possible previous aggressive tendencies have access to weapons?
Why did his family not intervene instead of recording the event inside the house?
Why did the man continuously attempt to harm AGS?

For someone wanting other people to wait for the facts to come out (not how a discussion works btw), you are quite happy to demand answers to AGS actions. You appear to be suggesting that AGS were negligent...despite not having any facts yourself.

alias no.9

everlast75 wrote: »

I think discussions on this matter could be short circuited to a large degree if, before giving their opinion, everyone could clarify

1) whether they believe racism is wrong or not.
2) whether they believe it is okay to shoot someone dead when they are committing a crime
3) whether someone with mental health issues should be dealt with differently than someone else.

NB - I'm not pre-judging the outcome of any independent investigation. These are just core beliefs that everyone has.

To me, it seems prudent to establish one's stance on these issues from the get go. It would save hours of back and forths with someone arguing for example, whether this situation was dealt with differently because of race only to get someone to agree that it was, and only then to find out that they think that is okay. What's the point in wasting time on that argument?

Anyhoo, that's my view on this discussion.

1. Racism is always wrong, no matter the colour of skin of the perpetrator or how aggrieved they may feel as an individual or as part of a community
2. Only when the pose danger to other people
3. They are treated differently in accordance with the Mental Health Act up to the point where they pose a danger to themselves or others, see 2

This was a tragic situation but it was precipitated by a series of actions by the man who was killed to ensure he could not cause harm to any more people.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Jesus Christ. Arrest the brother. Trying to whip up a crowd to murder a Garda.

givyjoe

Wombatman wrote: »

Good man. So what about this?



Were you correct in saying he attacked someone with a knife based on the content on the Gardai statement? Yes or No will do. No need for a long winded apology.

Eh, is this a joke? There's multiple references to him attempting attacks with a knife, on the armed and unarmed guards.

Necro

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

This will be my last post as I will get banned for not agreeing with the mass,
But I ask you to consider this, read through the absolute hatred in this thread, it’s not directed at this one man, it’s now all of them all the blacks and all Nigerians all immigrants, ask yourself why.
Good day

Mod:

I'll save you the bother - do not post in this thread again

ohnonotgmail

Wombatman wrote: »

Good man. So what about this?



Were you correct in saying he attacked someone with a knife based on the content on the Gardai statement? Yes or No will do. No need for a long winded apology.

He attacked a garda with the knife. you can see that in the video.

NIMAN

He seems to be enjoying himself too much in that clip.

His 15min of fame probably.

nullzero

Wombatman wrote: »

Good man. So what about this?



Were you correct in saying he attacked someone with a knife based on the content on the Gardai statement? Yes or No will do. No need for a long winded apology.

To quote the Garda statement AGAIN; "During an incident at the EuroSpar business premises in Hartstown Shopping Centre a male staff member received facial injuries and is currently receiving medical attention in Connolly Memorial Hospital".

Do you think this person received their injuries from means other than the use of the knife in question?

Often in situations like this people make comments about reading comprehension that I would like to avoid, but did you bother to read the Garda statement?

I'm sure you will be gracious enough to apologise to me in light of you demanding that from me previously.

ohnonotgmail

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

There's a difference. Clearly.

there clearly isn't. he had no issue damaging a stranger so why is it so hard to believe he would do the same to a girlfriend?

oldtimeyfella

nullzero wrote: »

His brother has claimed that he was holding a butter knife. This has been circulated as fact in a number of media outlets.
We truly live in a post fact world.

How do you know that this family doesn't usually butter their bread with machetes?


Very culturally insensitive of you.