Government flip flops / school closures

deiseindublin

He and NF keep repeating that schools are safe for students. Has even one presenter not wondered why he didn't say schools are safe, full stop?

This is bordering on reckless endangerment.

Bananaleaf

So in today's news:

• 7,836 new cases
• 105 new hospitalisations in the last 24hrs
• Case numbers not expected to reach their peak - at much higher levels - for another two weeks
• Numbers in ICU are up by 12 (to 88)
• All counties on an upward trajectory
• Escalating mortality inevitable
• 'hunker down and stay home'

Also in today's news:

• Open the schools

Source: https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0106/1187954-covid-cases-hospital-health/

km79

Bobtheman wrote: »

It will be a total disaster

And will mean more students miss than would have by doing remote learning.

Rosita

lawred2 wrote: »

A ludicrous expectation

Should all the hospitals close overnight and remain that way until all staff vaccinated?

Supermarkets?

GP clinics?

Yeah, hospitals and supermarkets can operate online in the meantime. How many bad comparisons do we have to endure?

hamburgham

inbetweentea wrote: »

Sorry on the GP front- many are doing video consultations/phone consultations as a primary means of interacting with patients (and justifiably so)

And it is a complete waste of time.

km79

Dr Tony confirms NPHET were not consulted
Wow

km79

hamburgham wrote: »

That’s how it should work. I appreciate that is a major shock to the system.

In your informed opinion should they have consulted NPHET before sending students and staff back to overcrowded classrooms

Bananaleaf

km79 wrote: »

Dr Tony confirms NPHET were not consulted
Wow

Well now. I have no words.

Edit - where did he confirm this? Sorry, not being a cow asking for sources all the time, it's just I'm feeding this info back to others so need proof

Edit - I found it - on RTE news Twitter https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1346899483750244352

fmpisces

km79 wrote: »

Dr Tony confirms NPHET were not consulted
Wow

To be honest I was surprised to think they had OK'd it.
It's just madness!!

wirelessdude01

km79 wrote: »

Dr Tony confirms NPHET were not consulted
Wow

That on twitter?

ClydeTallyBump

It is on RTE news Twitter page.

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Well now. I have no words.

Edit - where did he confirm this? Sorry, not being a cow asking for sources all the time, it's just I'm feeding this info back to others so need proof

notwhoyouthink

Ultimately, the decision is one of government; NPET play an advisory role, and have performed exemplary in discharging that role. THe advice was that schools as an whole should not reopen. Government followed that advice, and is limiting opening to the bare minimum, namely LC and special education. It isn't decision to seek advice on every tactical decision when the policy and advice is clear.

I do hope that the government will follow through in resourcing this appropriately, in all its facets. It is important that this decision is reviewed on a periodic basis, and if NPHET deems it unsafe, then of course government should respond appropriately and proportionately.

Rosita

Minister wriggled like an eel in that Sarah interview. Cute enough for her political life not to openly lie but her bluffing was exposed.

amacca

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

Ultimately, the decision is one of government; NPET play an advisory role, and have performed exemplary in discharging that role. THe advice was that schools as an whole should not reopen. Government followed that advice, and is limiting opening to the bare minimum, namely LC and special education. It isn't decision to seek advice on every tactical decision when the policy and advice is clear.

I do hope that the government will follow through in resourcing this appropriately, in all its facets. It is important that this decision is reviewed on a periodic basis, and if NPHET deems it unsafe, then of course government should respond appropriately and proportionately.

For a govt that's so fond of "stakeholders" when it suits the agenda.....they are good at ignoring them when it plays into their hands

If they wanted this to work of course they would have sought buy in and given assurances

They had nothing to bargain with so they deliberately sought to provoke said stakeholders (including a %of students and parents) by no consultation....they hope the backlash (if its large enough) will give them cover to make a politically unpalatable decision afterwards

They didnt have the balls to do it now (for fear of their own hides) and they didn't do any preparation for alternatives (although the truth is there are f all alternatives without spending in the hundreds of millions)

That's my opinion.......

The Wordress

Nearly 8,000 cases today and we are heading on our merry way back to school on a full time basis to SEN classes.

I really hope our unions come out kicking and shouting about this disgraceful plan.

As a SEN teacher, what I would have felt more comfortable with is- 2 weeks of online and work packs to see how the situation was by the endish of January.

What a liabiity to send the most vulnerable of society back school like this.

rainbowtrout

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

Ultimately, the decision is one of government; NPET play an advisory role, and have performed exemplary in discharging that role. THe advice was that schools as an whole should not reopen. Government followed that advice, and is limiting opening to the bare minimum, namely LC and special education. It isn't decision to seek advice on every tactical decision when the policy and advice is clear.

I do hope that the government will follow through in resourcing this appropriately, in all its facets. It is important that this decision is reviewed on a periodic basis, and if NPHET deems it unsafe, then of course government should respond appropriately and proportionately.

Being a government mouthpiece or whatever you are doesn't change facts. If the cabinet asked NPHET for advice on schools fully reopening and NPHET said no, then it's not good enough to say 'Well NPHET didn't say no to only sixth years'. They didn't say yes either because they weren't asked. If this was truly considered as the best way forward, then surely the responsible thing to do is going 'OK Plan A is out the window, so Tony what do you think of Plan B?'

Rosita

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

THe advice was that schools as an whole should not reopen.

Interesting. The Minister was asked 4/5 times about this advice and defaulted to the standard "schools are safe" mantra but refused to engage with the question of whether there had been specific advice. Eventually the interviewer said "we'll assume the answer is 'no' then" and the Minister didn't quibble.

That's the context. Now, do you have a source for the above claim about the advice? Because the very opposite is being alleged publicly at the moment so if you have a credible and demonstrable source it actually matters.

Bananaleaf

hamburgham wrote: »

No.
We know that NPHET is a one trick pony.
We all know the data. We know who is at risk. We know that faced with the same data , one person will hide under their sheets for months, someone else will be quite nonchalant. And it’s the hysterical who shout the loudest.

There is a minute health risk here and sixth years have already lost out on too much schooling. ‘Consult’ is often a euphemism for abdicate decision making and given NPHET’s extreme risk aversion I am glad they had the guts to at least make this decision.

What is the data on that minute health risk?

Leftwaffe

Link to Norma Foleys interview on RTE Drivetime for those who missed it:

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21890779

acequion

The Wordress wrote: »

Nearly 8,000 cases today and we are heading on our merry way back to school on a full time basis to SEN classes.

I really hope our unions come out kicking and shouting about this disgraceful plan.

As a SEN teacher, what I would have felt more comfortable with is- 2 weeks of online and work packs to see how the situation was by the endish of January.

What a liabiity to send the most vulnerable of society back school like this.

The only way that our unions will come out screaming and kicking is if the members en masse heap on the pressure. We pay our unions good money. Union leaders and top officials incur no health risk from this decision. But the members do. The very fact that NPHET wasn't consulted here should be enough to get this farcical decision overturned. The Govt have kow towed and hidden behind NPHET every step of the way so far. They've had no bother messing with people's livelihoods and sending thousands on the PUP from work places that are far safer than schools.

I can't believe there isn't major uproar over this. This isn't about pay and conditions, this is about our health. And what they are making us do is extremely dangerous. There is an ASTI CEC meeting this Saturday. I really would urge people to get vocal about this and bombard unions and TDs. We roll over and take everything in this country, we teachers constantly give in. Are we really going to just resign ourselves to this? Like lambs to the slaughter?

Warbeastrior

acequion wrote:

The only way that our unions will come out screaming and kicking is if the members en masse heap on the pressure. We pay our unions good money. Union leaders and top officials incur no health risk from this decision. But the members do. The very fact that NPHET wasn't consulted here should be enough to get this farcical decision overturned. The Govt have kow towed and hidden behind NPHET every step of the way so far. They've had no bother messing with people's livelihoods and sending thousands on the PUP from work places that are far safer than schools.

I can't believe there isn't major uproar over this. This isn't about pay and conditions, this is about our health. And what they are making us do is extremely dangerous. There is an ASTI CEC meeting this Saturday. I really would urge people to get vocal about this and bombard unions and TDs. We roll over and take everything in this country, we teachers constantly give in. Are we really going to just resign ourselves to this? Like lambs to the slaughter?

Well said!

Bananaleaf

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Link to Norma Foleys interview on RTE Drivetime for those who missed it:

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21890779

That feeling when you're doing an essay & have to reach a certain word count, but you've nothing to actually say, so you just keep repeating yourself.

Scarlet for her

byhookorbycrook

hamburgham wrote: »

No.
We know that NPHET is a one trick pony.
We all know the data. We know who is at risk. We know that faced with the same data , one person will hide under their sheets for months, someone else will be quite nonchalant. And it’s the hysterical who shout the loudest.

There is a minute health risk here and sixth years have already lost out on too much schooling. ‘Consult’ is often a euphemism for abdicate decision making and given NPHET’s extreme risk aversion I am glad they had the guts to at least make this decision.

Minute health risk?Wow, is that you, Norma?
Edited to add a fact based reference, not the word of an internet random poster:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32705-7/fulltext

Fann Linn

Bananaleaf wrote: »

That feeling when you're doing an essay & have to reach a certain word count, but you've nothing to actually say, so you just keep repeating yourself.

Scarlet for her

As my old English teacher used to say, ' just filling the page with waffle'.

Bananaleaf

Fann Linn wrote: »

As my old English teacher used to say, ' just filling the page with waffle'.

She had to be asked 3 times if she would be comfortable to go into a classroom if she had to before she finally answered. Says it all

Rosita

To be fair to the Minister, word-count shouldn't be a problem as she always has the opening "first of all I want to acknowledge" paragraph by heart. Gave some waffley answer on the TV press conference when asked about the JC. Rambled aimlessly about how safe schools are and had to be reminded of the actual question.

Leftwaffe

Rosita wrote: »

To be fair to the Minister, word-count shouldn't be a problem as she always has the opening "first of all I want to acknowledge" paragraph by heart. Gave some waffley answer on the TV press conference when asked about the JC. Rambled aimlessly about how safe schools are and had to be reminded of the actual question.

The complete opposite of clarity, just utter waffle in a time when uncertainty is not what we need.

joebloggs32

acequion wrote: »

The only way that our unions will come out screaming and kicking is if the members en masse heap on the pressure. We pay our unions good money. Union leaders and top officials incur no health risk from this decision. But the members do. The very fact that NPHET wasn't consulted here should be enough to get this farcical decision overturned. The Govt have kow towed and hidden behind NPHET every step of the way so far. They've had no bother messing with people's livelihoods and sending thousands on the PUP from work places that are far safer than schools.

I can't believe there isn't major uproar over this. This isn't about pay and conditions, this is about our health. And what they are making us do is extremely dangerous. There is an ASTI CEC meeting this Saturday. I really would urge people to get vocal about this and bombard unions and TDs. We roll over and take everything in this country, we teachers constantly give in. Are we really going to just resign ourselves to this? Like lambs to the slaughter?

The TUI have just circulated an email to branches. Its asking members to lobby their TDs.
There is a draft email to copy and all the contacts are available also.
The branch should be forwarding them out to members.

History Queen

joebloggs32 wrote: »

The TUI have just circulated an email to branches. Its asking members to lobby their TDs.
There is a draft email to copy and all the contacts are available also.
The branch should be forwarding them out to members.

Was just coming on to say this. Draft email also available on the app. Lads if ye can at all please lobby yere local TDs. Potential loss of votes is all they respond to.

Bananaleaf

History Queen wrote: »

Was just coming on to say this. Draft email also available on the app. Lads if ye can at all please lobby yere local TDs. Potential loss of votes is all they respond to.

I don't have any app and I've nothing from my branch. Tend not to get this stuff until it is too late.

Any chance anyone could send it to me?