Will the unionists give up in frustration?

Dyr

The hilarious thing about Brexit is the Shinners had to come out and say they were agin it even though they secretly really wanted it to happen and the DUP had to say they for it even though they were terrified it might happen

Much like FF and FG say they're in favour of an All Ireland set up even though they'll do everything they can to prevent it.

That politics, folks.

O'Neill

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The strategic vision of goldfish. The very first thing they should have sought to do in 1921 was make the north a happy home for their Catholic neighbours but they fucked it up over and over, and over, again and are still fucking it up 100 years later, Unionism is utterly beyond redemption.

They've hardly made it a happy home for their own voters eithers tbh. The DUP share alot in common with the Republican Party (ironically) than they do with any British party imo.

Finty Lemon

Bambi wrote: »

The hilarious thing about Brexit is the Shinners had to come out and say they were agin it even though they secretly really wanted it to happen and the DUP had to say they for it even though they were terrified it might happen

Much like FF and FG say they're in favour of an All Ireland set up even though they'll do everything they can to prevent it.

That politics, folks.

Indeed. The disappointment among SF on the prospect of an orderly Brexit is hilarious

AMKC

I can not see The UK been out of Europe for long. I give it a decade at the most before the UK goes bust and the IMF is called in and they look to get back into Europe after realising what a huge mistake they made one that might see there precious Union fall apart with Northern Ireland Joining us and Scotland and Wales looking for Independence so they can get back into the EU all within the next decade I say.

Qiaonasen

It's gonna be hilarious if Scotland vote to leave which I think they will.

Hamsterchops

Qiaonasen wrote: »

It's gonna be hilarious if Scotland vote to leave which I think they will.

Hilarious?

Not sure that's the correct word, with half of Scotland upset and angry about the seperation while he other half (just over) is celebrating the breakup! England & Wales free & happy to take a new course without the extra ballast of Scotland on their shoulder? Maybe that's amusing? I don't know.

Would we find this hilarious, well I wouldn't.

FrancieBrady

A disorderly Brexit would have entrenched too many and made a UI a divisive violent thing.
Not a religious man but I prayed it would be a deal that saw the UK leave.

A proper UI will happen only if we are prosperous, a UI that can work seamlessly and without much rancour.

The effects of Brexit will take longer to be felt now, which for a UI will be a better thing. Unionists will not even feel the two continuing to merge together and will have no big scary things to point at. Come a border poll the issues will be clear as bell for them.

Many of the unionists are very very deep. They do not want to be part of a United Ireland. But they are slowly diminishing in numbers and increasingly be rejected by Britian. England Scotland and Wales are the core of Britain.

We seen how much England wanted Scotland to stay in the last referendum. There is no such sentiment afforded to Northern Ireland. In fact its pretty embarrassing the way they have basically been ushered half way out the door with this Brexit deal. They are now 2nd tier Brits.

Dyr

Of course theres always the possibility that the English will vote for independance from the rest of the UK

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Many of the unionists are very very deep. They do not want to be part of a United Ireland. But they are slowly diminishing in numbers and increasingly be rejected by Britian. England Scotland and Wales are the core of Britain.

We seen how much England wanted Scotland to stay in the last referendum. There is no such sentiment afforded to Northern Ireland. In fact its pretty embarrassing the way they have basically been ushered half way out the door with this Brexit deal. They are now 2nd tier Brits.

Most of Unionism have seen that and accepted it, more have been forced to see it by..well...Unionism itself by it's actions over the last couple of decades.

Moderate Unionism has accepted that a UI will likely happen and I reckon they'll be ok for that and up for it if it happens.

The evidence is as plain as day. Imagine for a second what would have happened if a sea border was suggested to Ian Paisley Snr?

The rump of belligerent intolerant Unionism could only muster handfuls in the upstairs rooms of pubs to object to it.

Hamsterchops

In the case of NI voting to leave the United Kingdom, I'm guessing that we'd have a new devolved Stormont administration, run and funded by Dublin the new holder of the purse strings), instead of London, which would be fading away into the distance ....

Or might we run & fund Northern Ireland directly from Dublin (as their new Capital City)?

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

In the case of NI voting to leave the United Kingdom, I'm guessing that we'd have a new devolved Stormont administration, run and funded by Dublin the new holder of the purse strings), instead of London, which would be fading away into the distance ....

Or might we run Northern Ireland directly from Dublin (as their new Capital City)?

100 years on it is plain as day that 'devolved anything' has failed the people of NI and of this island. It's latest effect is to represent a threat to the island's health.

It would be a huge mistake to make again IMO.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

You mean a huge mistake not to leave the UK?

I guess that's what you mean, but dare I mention Health, and their superior health service.
(ducks below parapet)

No, I meant a huge mistake to create another 'devolved' government. It hasn't worked and has resulted in tragic death and is now a health threat. It's 'superior' health service requiring our help in the form of ambulances and bed space.

Fuascailteoir

How does Bryson manage to get so much coverage. Even if his views do belong to a long forgotten time, it would be a little more understandable if he could pen them in an articulate manner. I stead of that he is like an incoherent belligerent drunk rambling to nobody in particular. Who does he appeal to?

FrancieBrady

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

How does Bryson manage to get so much coverage. Even if his views do belong to a long forgotten time, it would be a little more understandable if he could pen them in an articulate manner. I stead of that he is like an incoherent belligerent drunk rambling to nobody in particular. Who does he appeal to?

He's a comedic throwback atm.

Fred Cryton

What a way for Unionists to celebrate the centenary of their Statelet....with an economic border down the Irish Sea because they backed the wrong horse. You have to just laugh.

The biggest impediment to a United Ireland is of course SF, with their populist left wing politics straight out of Venezuela or East Germany. A UI would only empower them so that's why FF and FG will hesitate to ever go down that route.

astrofool

Is it not effectively done already? Just with the British funding the NI deficit, they're already separated from Great Britain, access north/south is still seamless, about the only way to notice it is the miles and sterling change.

FrancieBrady

Fred Cryton wrote: »

What a way for Unionists to celebrate the centenary of their Statelet....with an economic border down the Irish Sea because they backed the wrong horse. You have to just laugh.

The biggest impediment to a United Ireland is of course SF, with their populist left wing politics straight out of Venezuela or East Germany. A UI would only empower them so that's why FF and FG will hesitate to ever go down that route.

Not going too well that strategy is it? They've had to practically merge to try and stop the inevitable.

Michael's sleeveen attempt to woo Unionism with his Unity Unit hasn't had much of an impact. It's a fairly limp attempt to take control of the UI agenda. But we'll see. They certainly want in on the act...too big a prize for any self respecting Irish party to resist - delivering a UI.

6541

The way I look at The North is like this.
Imagine having a free house, all bills Paided for by the landlord.
You completely dislike the landlord and jump at any chance you have to run the hot water tap or burn the gas.
This is how northern Nationalist's should look at GB. They should take every state assistants going, pay as little tax as possible and ignore all sense of belonging to the collective know as Northern Ireland.

mikep

There's not a hope in hell of them giving up..

They can't wait for the day when they can have an Orange march down O'Connell Street once the SF plan for reunification gets through..

Sunny Disposition

Got to know a lot of people from a unionist background in recent years. Nice enough most of them, but the politics is crazy. They know it too, don’t oppose gay marriage or anything like that, but vote unionist anyway. Most of them could easily enough be convinced into reunification, but they don’t want SF/IRA lording it over them, which is understandable.

Qiaonasen

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Hilarious?

Not sure that's the correct word, with half of Scotland upset and angry about the seperation while he other half (just over) is celebrating the breakup! England & Wales free & happy to take a new course without the extra ballast of Scotland on their shoulder? Maybe that's amusing? I don't know.

Would we find this hilarious, well I wouldn't.

It will be entertaining from afar watching one of the most brutal empires on earth in it's death throws. Of course you are right. It will not be great for the current harmony and peace that exists on these Islands.

wiggle16

Mimon wrote: »

There has been a growing Northern Irish identity from the middle class on both sides. This is now more of an obstacle to a united Ireland than the dwindling number of hardcore unionists.

This is true and something commentary often fails to acknowledge because this segment of NI society isn't represented by the major parties.

The traditional form of Unionism itself, union with the the UK for its own sake, I believe will wane over the next couple of decades, particularly the DUP. But I don't believe that will result in a united Ireland by itself.

If a united Ireland ever becomes a reality it will be beacuse the North as it currently functions is unsustainable. My figures may be rusty, but last I checked they recieve 11 billion pounds a year from Westminster, almost a third of the population is employed in the public sector and there is serious administrative bloat: they have 9 government departments whereas Scotland, for example, has six, but has 5 times the population. NI is an over-subsidised, intrinsically insolvent statelet and I don't think it can persist like this for very much longer.

The six counties are unsustainable - any united Ireland in the future will be based upon pragmatics and economics rather than nationalism and identity.

Finty Lemon

wiggle16 wrote: »

This is true and something commentary often fails to acknowledge because this segment of NI society isn't represented by the major parties.

The traditional form of Unionism itself, union with the the UK for its own sake, I believe will wane over the next couple of decades, particularly the DUP. But I don't believe that will result in a united Ireland by itself.

If a united Ireland ever becomes a reality it will be beacuse the North as it currently functions is unsustainable. My figures may be rusty, but last I checked they recieve 11 billion pounds a year from Westminster, almost a third of the population is employed in the public sector and there is serious administrative bloat: they have 9 government departments whereas Scotland, for example, has six, but has 5 times the population. NI is an over-subsidised, intrinsically insolvent statelet and I don't think it can persist like this for very much longer.

The six counties are unsustainable - any united Ireland in the future will be based upon pragmatics and economics rather than nationalism and identity.

London and the South East of England are the only regions in the UK with a positive balance of payments, meaning that they effectively subsidise the rest of the UK. If the argument for NI being jettisoned is made on the basis of unsustainable NFB, then Wales and the North West of England would logically follow suit. Not going to happen. Further, given the small size of NI, it is unlikely that the UK taxpayer would notice any difference if NI were gone. Could the same be said of the ROI taxpayer in reverse? Not sure. So the decision will be a political one.

Sunny Disposition

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Got to know a lot of people from a unionist background in recent years. Nice enough most of them, but the politics is crazy. They know it too, don’t oppose gay marriage or anything like that, but vote unionist anyway. Most of them could easily enough be convinced into reunification, but they don’t want SF/IRA lording it over them, which is understandable.

Sinn Fein is too toxic for most unionists.

Beltby

mikep wrote: »

There's not a hope in hell of them giving up..

They can't wait for the day when they can have an Orange march down O'Connell Street once the SF plan for reunification gets through..

The parades commission make sure they don't march through areas they are not wanted in.

Look what happened the last time they attempted a march down Oconnell Street.

RandomViewer

OP seems to think that Hardline Unionists actually consider stuff enough to get frustrated, big old bigots like Sammy the streaker and Gregory the bitter wee sh1te dont do much in the lines of thinking

mikep

Beltby wrote: »

The parades commission make sure they don't march through areas they are not wanted in.

Look what happened the last time they attempted a march down Oconnell Street.

Will the parades comission survive reunification??
Also what's to stop Irish citizens expressing their cultural identity??
Repressing a minorities cultural identity wouldn't be Ideal, would it..

RandomViewer

mikep wrote: »

Will the parades comission survive reunification??
Also what's to stop Irish citizens expressing their cultural identity??
Repressing a minorities cultural identity wouldn't be Ideal, would it..

Would be thinking hate speech legislation would keep them marching on beaches rather than pissing of their neighbours

Five Eighth

As noted by a previous poster, estimated subvention from London to NI is estimated at £12bn per year. In addition, NI employment is very dependent on a bloated public sector. Many of my acquaintances are willing to pay extra in taxation to support Irish unity but not if it means having to tolerate recalcitrant unionists/loyalists particularly if some resort to violence. Also, expressing their British culture should be confined to areas where this culture is welcomed and appreciated. Germany has experienced a very expensive reunification and that process involved citizens from east and west being enthusiastic for unity.