Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

salmocab

OldRio wrote: »

Well it seems the IRFU voted against the new format and wanted full meritocracy. See the United Rugby Championship thread for details.
It is vastly unfair that the 4 top teams are in one pool IMHO. You can understand why the other nations teams were delighted with that aspect.

I don’t think the top 4 teams are all in one group to be fair and if they turn out to be then they’d probably all qualify anyway.

sydthebeat

If, according to some reports, that rule about the pools being used for ERC qualification is due to be voted on again in two years time... And it requires unanimous agreement to continue... Then of course the IRFU should vote against it (again)

sydthebeat

salmocab wrote: »

I don’t think the top 4 teams are all in one group to be fair and if they turn out to be then they’d probably all qualify anyway.

Young Rio is probably referring to the top 4 teams from last seasons Pro14 (the Irish teams) being in the one pool.

connachta

thomond2006 wrote: »

Nobody should be surprised by that. It is absolutely not in the IRFU's self-interest that three provinces will be effectively competing for 4 spots in Europe.

And so ends another Connacht Conspiracy. Till next year.

I can't wait for your reaction when Munster finish 7th out of 16th, or more often, miss out Europe just behind Glasgow/Scarlets because they have 10 points offered.

You (maybe) won't say, oh it's anti-Connacht conspiracy, stop moaning and so on

connachta

sydthebeat wrote: »

If, according to some reports, that rule about the pools being used for ERC qualification is due to be voted on again in two years time... And it requires unanimous agreement to continue... Then of course the IRFU should vote against it (again)

Hope so:)

salmocab

sydthebeat wrote: »

Young Rio is probably referring to the top 4 teams from last seasons Pro14 (the Irish teams) being in the one pool.

Well yeah I assumed that but they aren’t the top 4 teams in the competition

thomond2006

You can argue the circumstances etc. but Connacht did win many interpros this season and should also have won against Munster in Galway but they got in their own way. It's going to be a scrap for spots but they have a good shot. It will hopefully be an exciting season where each game takes on more relevance.

sydthebeat

Posters seem to think there is one Welsh team significantly stronger than the others that's going to get 30 points from their pool games... Same for the Scallion pool...

That simply doesn't exist. Its actually much much more likely that the Irish pool will be the one that's lob sided... And the other 3 pools will be a dog fight with all teams taking points off each other

KBurke85

At the end of the day if Connacht focus on themselves, improve the areas they need to, become more consistent they shouldn't have to worry about who's playing who. If they're good enough they'll get the results they need to make play offs and Champions Cup. If not they don't deserve to be there anyway.

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

YES!

that was my point

I mixed it up but my idea was

- Not only one but two teams can eliminate us when behind us in the table (that's why I said 6/8 but it's 7h and 8th)

AND

- It's a total scandal Glasgow play Zebre and us Leinster. You can turn this as you want but facing different opposition with a huge level-gap and the same table in the end shouldn't exist in sport, except (and still, it's contestable..) based on past season merit (seeding). Not the case here, I keep my opinion, it shouldn't even be legal


Saying it this way, I think many reasonable guys would agree and certainly not an extreme point

Connacht also get to play Zebre. And Benetton, Dragons etc. Glasgow also have to play Leinster etc. Glasgow have also lost a heap of their good players and are nowhere near as good as they used to be. I suspect the 4 pool winners will be in the top 6/7 of the overall table.

Claiming it " shouldn't be legal" is utter nonsense. Cop onto yourself with that stuff. Most sport is unbalanced these days. Man City have more money then Norwich, Bournemouth etc. So they win more because they buy better players.

connachta

KBurke85 wrote: »

At the end of the day if Connacht focus on themselves, improve the areas they need to, become more consistent they shouldn't have to worry about who's playing who. If they're good enough they'll get the results they need to make play offs and Champions Cup. If not they don't deserve to be there anyway.

Utter nonsense

Connacht deserves Champions Cup even behind 3 Irish and Saffers (best teams in the world after 2,3 N-Z franchises) + 1 other

And still may be out because of the double unfairness


Before, we had to be better than Glasgow and Osperys, now because Saffers are admitted in "Europe" and the rules are tricked, we have to beat Munster and Sharks. FFS that's the end

Money gained by Saffers payment will be lost in lack of sponsorship because TV/Fans wants big French and English teams, not Worcester

Same will, in a lesser extent, happen to Munster and Ulster

this is the end of the Irish reign. French and Welsh were very jealous of the model, now a way is found to end the era

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

Utter nonsense

Connacht deserves Champions Cup even behind 3 Irish and Saffers + 1 other

And still may be out because of the double unfairness


Before, we had to be better than Glasgow and Osperys, now because Saffers were admitted in "Europe" and the rules are tricked, we have to beat Munster and Sharks. FFS that's the end

Money gained by Saffers payment will be lost in lack of sponsorship because TV/Fan wants big French and English teams, not Worcester

Connacht don't deserve to be in champions Cup if they don't earn it

You are going on like it is an entitlement

RonnieL

I've always felt we (connacht fans, and the branch themselves) are too obsessed with champions/heineken cup qualification. It results in us constantly looking too far forward at a competition that we might be in the following season, rather than focusing on the current league campaign itself. When we do qualify, we get all excited about it, then invariably get ourselves out of contention after a couple of the group games, and the cycle starts again. The reason I mention this now is, I think we've done that because the league we're in has never really been seen as good enough, certainly when compared to the European competition. That's one of the reasons I'm excited about the URC, because with 4 new top quality teams, and less games, the overall quality should improve. If the TV companies do a good enough job at presenting it, the prestige of the competitions will grow, and maybe we'll care less about champions cup qualification. Also, if we are forced to improve in order to qualify for Europe, we should be more competitive when we do get there (and when we don't make the champions cup, we'll give ourselves a good chance of a run in the challenge cup).

Let's see how it all plays out.

OldRio

salmocab wrote: »

I don’t think the top 4 teams are all in one group to be fair and if they turn out to be then they’d probably all qualify anyway.

The top 4 teams based on last seasons conferences are in the same pool.
4 teams from the same pool qualifying? Seriously?

sydthebeat

youd swear connacht have a European pedigree a kin to Toulouse by the way Connachta is going on here...

Connacht "deserve" absolutely nothing beyond what they earn

thomond2006

OldRio wrote: »

The top 4 teams based on last seasons conferences are in the same pool.
4 teams from the same pool qualifying? Seriously?

They were the top 4 teams partly because the internationals missed most of the games and the provinces can absorb those absentees better than others thanks to depth/money. The Scots and Italians were doomed.

SA teams aside, I don't think the provinces will dominate to the same degree but I'd be surprised if three teams at least do not qualify.

OldRio

thomond2006 wrote: »

They were the top 4 teams partly because the internationals missed most of the games and the provinces can absorb those absentees better than others thanks to depth/money. The Scots and Italians were doomed.

SA teams aside, I don't think the provinces will dominate to the same degree but I'd be surprised if three teams at least do not qualify.

I never mentioned the how's and whys and whatever. I stated the 4 top teams in the conferences based on last seasons results are in the same pool.

I'm all for this new competition it will be like a breath of fresh air. IMHO the only change I would make is a seeding system for the pools. If this means a dilution of the inter pros so be it. Far too many last season for my liking.

ClanofLams

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Connacht don't deserve to be in champions Cup if they don't earn it

You are going on like it is an entitlement

The post you are responding to is obviously making the point that meritocracy, as the IRFU wanted, should be in place. Connachta isn’t suggesting Connacht are entitled to anything rather that it should simply be top 8 teams qualifying.

There’s valid reasons why people can disagree but at least do so in good faith.

connachta

thomond2006 wrote: »

They were the top 4 teams partly because the internationals missed most of the games and the provinces can absorb those absentees better than others thanks to depth/money. The Scots and Italians were doomed.

SA teams aside, I don't think the provinces will dominate to the same degree but I'd be surprised if three teams at least do not qualify.

If "3" we all know which will be the 4th

But Munster/Ulster can and will be IMO badly surprise by the "format".

That's why IRFU reacts, and will react more in 2 years

connachta

ClanofLams wrote: »

The post you are responding to is obviously making the point that meritocracy, as the IRFU wanted, should be in place. Connachta isn’t suggesting Connacht are entitled to anything rather that it should simply be top 8 teams qualifying.

There’s valid reasons why people can disagree but at least do so in good faith.

Yes:)
I'd say top 8 without the current unfair pool repartition, but IRFU at least will fight for top 8 in 2 years..

evil_seed

Use your ignore lists guys.

salmocab

OldRio wrote: »

The top 4 teams based on last seasons conferences are in the same pool.
4 teams from the same pool qualifying? Seriously?

I said if they were the top 4 teams in the competition they would probably qualify and I’d stand by that. They won’t be the top 4 teams though.

connachta

I thought about it again.
The point is even simplier based on this season table
Connacht are 4th

The 4 Saffers are big guns, but even with 3 only above us, with the current table, 1 Welsh and 1 Scot are magically picked and Connacht are out

Right?

FACECUTTR

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/06/16/squad-update-departing-players-complete-their-time-at-munster/

From this article it says Cronin is gone. The story about Munster matching he Connacht offer must have only been agent ****housery.

Jump_In_Jack

connachta wrote: »

I thought about it again.
The point is even simplier based on this season table
Connacht are 4th

The 4 Saffers are big guns, but even with 3 only above us, with the current table, 1 Welsh 1 Scot are magically picked and Connacht are out

Right?

Correct. If the other 3 Irish provinces plus 3 of the SA teams take the top 6 places in the league, Connacht cannot qualify for H Cup.

What is more interesting to me is that after the coming season, the Heineken Cup may revert to the old system, where 7 teams will qualify from this league.
So after that, it really would be very difficult the following year, as it would mean the top 5 teams (assuming all a mix of Irish teams (besides Connacht) and SA teams) plus a Welsh plus a Scot/Italian team will take the 7 places.
So Connacht might have to finish top 5 then.
Likely the top 5 would be Leinster, Bulls, and three from Munster/Stormers/Ulster/Sharks.
Connacht would have a lot to do in the second year of this new qualification system.
After that however, returning to a meritocratic system will mean Connacht would need to finish in the top 7 at least, so probably will be in a dogfight with Scarlets, Lions, Glasgow and Benetton every year, assuming those mentioned above always fill the top 6 places.
Hopefully Connacht will continue to improve and may finish higher up than barely qualifying for the Heineken Cup.
All in all, at least it's far superior to the non-competitive league of the past season, 4 Irish teams easily the best of the 12 teams, not much for a spectator to watch.

KBurke85

connachta wrote: »

I thought about it again.
The point is even simplier based on this season table
Connacht are 4th

The 4 Saffers are big guns, but even with 3 only above us, with the current table, 1 Welsh and 1 Scot are magically picked and Connacht are out

Right?

Lets just wait and see what happens on the pitch. The current table, past tables are irrelevant. It will be a new season new competition and if Connacht get good enough results to qualify great if not they focus on improving and try again the following year.

thomond2006

FACECUTTR wrote: »

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/06/16/squad-update-departing-players-complete-their-time-at-munster/

From this article it says Cronin is gone. The story about Munster matching he Connacht offer must have only been agent ****housery.

Hopefully Connacht can manage to sign Cronin. He's proven and will great competition when Buckley returns.

connachta

FACECUTTR wrote: »

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/06/16/squad-update-departing-players-complete-their-time-at-munster/

From this article it says Cronin is gone. The story about Munster matching he Connacht offer must have only been agent ****housery.

Good chance he comes :cool:

FACECUTTR

thomond2006 wrote: »

Hopefully Connacht can manage to sign Cronin. He's proven.

Was actually half expecting to see him named in the ireland squad with how he has played this season.

KBurke85

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Was actually half expecting to see him named in the ireland squad with how he has played this season.

Unless the irfu know he's signing for someone abroad