Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

Bazzo

Shelflife wrote: »

I had no problem with the decision at the time. We brought on two young props and struggled a bit afterwards. Scrums got messy and from Frank’s POV he had enough at that stage.

I think one of the infringements was a free kick which would mean they wouldn’t get the throw in if they kicked it. Their maul was a serious weapon so that’s why they went for the lineout.

Birch has gone from coaching at T14 to Pro14 to J1A so he probably genuinely doesn’t know what’s going on and is looking for help !

They'd just had 2 scrum penalties(iirc) followed by a warning from the ref, very unusual not to see a team go for another scrum looking for a yellow in that situation.

ClanofLams

Without making any comment on Murphy’s standard of reffing and certainly not in any way blaming him for loss, it’s ridiculous that he is reffing Connacht anyway, makes the league look tin pot and needs to stop if league is going to work.

Imagine Murphy reffing Connacht v Stormers in tight game and marginal decision given to Connacht that effectively decides game. South African media would think it is absolutely ridiculous. And they would be right.

Lost Ormond

ClanofLams wrote: »

Without making any comment on Murphy’s standard of reffing and certainly not in any way blaming him for loss, it’s ridiculous that he is reffing Connacht anyway, makes the league look tin pot and needs to stop if league is going to work.

Imagine Murphy reffing Connacht v Stormers in tight game and marginal decision given to Connacht that effectively decides game. South African media would think it is absolutely ridiculous. And they would be right.

Ideally it should stop but when number of pro refs within the league is so small bound to happen.
Murphy also played for Munster is he not to ref them as well?

Problem is its a cross border league and this season anyway travel is harder and as said above only small number of pro refs means you have to have him do some games.

thomond2006

ClanofLams wrote: »

Without making any comment on Murphy’s standard of reffing and certainly not in any way blaming him for loss, it’s ridiculous that he is reffing Connacht anyway, makes the league look tin pot and needs to stop if league is going to work.

Imagine Murphy reffing Connacht v Stormers in tight game and marginal decision given to Connacht that effectively decides game. South African media would think it is absolutely ridiculous. And they would be right.

Questions need to be asked about what Scotland is doing in ref development. Aside from Mike Adamson, I can't remember seeing any SRU affiliated ref in the Pro14 for years.

As for right now, it would be irresponsible to fly over referees from overseas.

ClanofLams

Yes of course in current circumstances it’s fine. But Murphy has been reffing Connacht long before Covid. He has reffed Connacht when he could have reffed Leinster/Ulster.

I don’t think he can ref Munster anyway? Isn’t he registered with them?

After this season it needs to stop. No other league would tolerate a guy reffing a team he has one hundred appearances for. You wouldn’t see it at amateur sport, never mind professional.

Lost Ormond

thomond2006 wrote: »

Questions need to be asked about what Scotland is doing in ref development. Aside from Mike Adamson, I can't remember seeing any SRU affiliated ref in the Pro14 for years.

As for right now, it would be irresponsible to fly over referees from overseas.

There is one or two. Ben Balin. Sam Grove White.
And yeah totally irresponsible to fly over refs needlessly from abroad right now

ClanofLams wrote: »

Yes of course in current circumstances it’s fine. But Murphy has been reffing Connacht long before Covid. He has reffed Connacht when he could have reffed Leinster/Ulster.

I don’t think he can ref Munster anyway? Isn’t he registered with them?

After this season it needs to stop. No other league would tolerate a guy reffing a team he has one hundred appearances for. You wouldn’t see it at amateur sport, never mind professional.

He is a Munster, MAR, ref. But all pro refs in Ireland are from Munster apart from Sean Gallagher. And of the development group behind them. of the 4 members 2 are from Munster.
With numbers of refs limited i dont think they could be able to stop guys reffing the side where theyre from or who they played for.

Former Former Former

Very unfair to be blaming Frank Murphy lads. He didn't cost ye the game

b.gud

Former Former Former wrote: »

Very unfair to be blaming Frank Murphy lads. He didn't cost ye the game

The OP literally said he is not to blame for the loss, see below

ClanofLams wrote: »

Without making any comment on Murphy’s standard of reffing and certainly not in any way blaming him for loss, it’s ridiculous that he is reffing Connacht anyway, makes the league look tin pot and needs to stop if league is going to work.

Imagine Murphy reffing Connacht v Stormers in tight game and marginal decision given to Connacht that effectively decides game. South African media would think it is absolutely ridiculous. And they would be right.

Bazzo

b.gud wrote: »

The OP literally said he is not to blame for the loss, see below

I also don't think Murphy influenced the result and I'm the one who linked the Jackman tweet about the scrum penalty, just thought it was an interesting observation.

ClanofLams

Festive Life wrote: »

There is one or two. Ben Balin. Sam Grove White.
And yeah totally irresponsible to fly over refs needlessly from abroad right now

He is a Munster, MAR, ref. But all pro refs in Ireland are from Munster apart from Sean Gallagher. And of the development group behind them. of the 4 members 2 are from Munster.
With numbers of refs limited i dont think they could be able to stop guys reffing the side where theyre from or who they played for.

They need to get a couple of more refs in so. This genuinely wouldn't happen in amateur sport or any other professional league. It makes the league look very small time and I am someone who normally defends it. They need to do it quickly and at a minimum, Murphy shouldn't be reffing Connacht when at all avoidable, as it has been frequently in the past.

Former Former Former wrote: »

Very unfair to be blaming Frank Murphy lads. He didn't cost ye the game

Literally nobody is.

thomond2006

Clan, you see to stop blaming Frank Murphy for everything.

Bazzo

thomond2006 wrote: »

Clan, you see to stop blaming Frank Murphy for everything.

Did Frank Murphy put you up to this?

Former Former Former

b.gud wrote: »

The OP literally said he is not to blame for the loss, see below

I wasn't talking about one specific poster, just the number of posts along the lines of "now I'm not saying he cost us the game but..." over the last couple of days. I don't think it's fair to call the guy's integrity into question.

It's time to be Frank here lads, we need to stop blaming Frank for losing games we quite Frankly should be winning ...

Lost Ormond

ClanofLams wrote: »

They need to get a couple of more refs in so. This genuinely wouldn't happen in amateur sport or any other professional league. It makes the league look very small time and I am someone who normally defends it. They need to do it quickly and at a minimum, Murphy shouldn't be reffing Connacht when at all avoidable, as it has been frequently in the past.

That takes time. How would you suggest they get more refs to that level?
You cant just push people who may not be ready. At moment IRFU are training refs to higher level than other unions within the league. will take time for other unions to bring through more officials.

In soccer its counties who develop the refs and pro teams etc arent linked.
Rugby the associations are far more linked so its hard to change.
Its a multi nation league. until there is a pro ref from Connacht and more from Ulster and Leinster then this wont change and very hard to force refs through to this level especially before they are ready.

Zzippy

Festive Life wrote: »

That takes time. How would you suggest they get more refs to that level?
You cant just push people who may not be ready. At moment IRFU are training refs to higher level than other unions within the league. will take time for other unions to bring through more officials.

In soccer its counties who develop the refs and pro teams etc arent linked.
Rugby the associations are far more linked so its hard to change.
Its a multi nation league. until there is a pro ref from Connacht and more from Ulster and Leinster then this wont change and very hard to force refs through to this level especially before they are ready.

When are you making the step up? And which province will you be affiliated to?

ClanofLams

Festive Life wrote: »

That takes time. How would you suggest they get more refs to that level?
You cant just push people who may not be ready. At moment IRFU are training refs to higher level than other unions within the league. will take time for other unions to bring through more officials.

In soccer its counties who develop the refs and pro teams etc arent linked.
Rugby the associations are far more linked so its hard to change.
Its a multi nation league. until there is a pro ref from Connacht and more from Ulster and Leinster then this wont change and very hard to force refs through to this level especially before they are ready.

Every other rugby league in the world manages to avoid this, it isn’t too complicated. As far as I know it only affects Frank Murphy (as in he is the only ex player reffing in the league?) and he only represented two teams.

It’s really not too difficult to avoid the situation of him reffing one of those teams in non Covid times. The league just hasn’t bothered in the past, could have easily sent him to other games (eg he has reffed in Sportsground when he could have reffed in rds) but didn’t.

A league making a major transformation and going into a brand new market should be looking to avoid impressions of potential new fans going “wtf is going on here? this guy played for them
100 times and is now reffing them??” which would be the reaction should it occur.

Edit - just on your general point of not much can be done if prospective refs are ready, if a ref broke their leg or whatever next August I am quite confident no fixtures would be cancelled. Something can be done, the league just hasn’t bothered doing it. That reflects poorly.

ClanofLams

Former Former Former wrote: »

I wasn't talking about one specific poster, just the number of posts along the lines of "now I'm not saying he cost us the game but..." over the last couple of days. I don't think it's fair to call the guy's integrity into question.

Connacht performed terribly, were incredibly lucky to be 12 up at half time and did not take advantage of the luck.

From my perspective anyway, this is more a general conversation around the optics of a guy reffing a team he has one hundred caps for. It’s ridiculous.

Lost Ormond

ClanofLams wrote: »

Every other rugby league in the world manages to avoid this, it isn’t too complicated. As far as I know it only affects Frank Murphy (as in he is the only ex player reffing in the league?) and he only represented two teams.

It’s really not too difficult to avoid the situation of him reffing one of those teams in non Covid times. The league just hasn’t bothered in the past, could have easily sent him to other games (eg he has reffed in Sportsground when he could have reffed in rds) but didn’t.

A league making a major transformation and going into a brand new market should be looking to avoid impressions of potential new fans going “wtf is going on here? this guy played for them
100 times and is now reffing them??” which would be the reaction should it occur.

The french and english leagues are 1 nation competitions and have had guys ref teams they either live in area etc.
Super Rugby regularly has games with refs from same nation as one team reffing games. If teams saw it as an issue then surely it would be brought up with Greg Garner, ref manager for the competition and a change might happen.

Glen Jackson reffed a super rugby quarter between Jaguares v Chiefs and he used play for them.
We are talking about professional athletes in terms of the refs. Its not like Lions tours of the 50s/60s. The refs cant win regardless. If it wasnt this ref in this situation it would be another ref and something else.
In common with Super Rugby, the PRO14 has a policy of the best officials taking charge of the best games, no matter what country they are from.

Appointments are merit-based, with those who perform well getting the biggest games. Neutrality has always been part of deciding who gets which appointments, but capability is a key factor and if you ask players and coaches they will tell you they want the best official in charge.

The clubs, provinces and regions wanted the situation to evolve on those lines.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/nigel-owens-column-referees-arent-14583825

ClanofLams

Festive Life wrote: »

The french and english leagues are 1 nation competitions and have had guys ref teams they either live in area etc.
Super Rugby regularly has games with refs from same nation as one team reffing games. If teams saw it as an issue then surely it would be brought up with Greg Garner, ref manager for the competition and a change might happen.

Glen Jackson reffed a super rugby quarter between Jaguares v Chiefs and he used play for them.
We are talking about professional athletes in terms of the refs. Its not like Lions tours of the 50s/60s. The refs cant win regardless. If it wasnt this ref in this situation it would be another ref and something else.
In common with Super Rugby, the PRO14 has a policy of the best officials taking charge of the best games, no matter what country they are from.

Appointments are merit-based, with those who perform well getting the biggest games. Neutrality has always been part of deciding who gets which appointments, but capability is a key factor and if you ask players and coaches they will tell you they want the best official in charge.

The clubs, provinces and regions wanted the situation to evolve on those lines.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/nigel-owens-column-referees-arent-14583825

I have no issue with refs taking charge of teams from the same country, although obviously ideally it would be welsh reffing games between scottish and irish teams and vice versa etc. Hopefully the league can get to that stage sooner rather than later.

Despite the Glen Jackson example, it's not good enough and more importantly from the perspective of the league, it doesn't look good to have a ref who played for a team now in charge of a game involving them.

I would stand by the point that if Frank Murphy wasn't available next season, no games would be cancelled. It's possible to avoid the situation and it should be avoided.

Lost Ormond

ClanofLams wrote: »

I have no issue with refs taking charge of teams from the same country, although obviously ideally it would be welsh reffing games between scottish and irish teams and vice versa etc. Hopefully the league can get to that stage sooner rather than later.

Despite the Glen Jackson example, it's not good enough and more importantly from the perspective of the league, it doesn't look good to have a ref who played for a team now in charge of a game involving them.

I would stand by the point that if Frank Murphy wasn't available next season, no games would be cancelled. It's possible to avoid the situation and it should be avoided.

Its a cross border league now it doesnt have the travel times that super rugby has but it still isnt always feasible to have neutral country refs for all games or even a lot of games right now.
The only way that can change is if there is substantial more refs come through from more countries but thats a long term goal.

ClanofLams

Festive Life wrote: »

Its a cross border league now it doesnt have the travel times that super rugby has but it still isnt always feasible to have neutral country refs for all games or even a lot of games right now.
The only way that can change is if there is substantial more refs come through from more countries but thats a long term goal.

I'm not saying that should be done, I said that should be the goal. My only point is that the one ref who is an ex player shouldn't be reffing any of the two teams who he represented and that is obviously possible.

The league has handled it poorly, the first game I recall Murphy reffing was when Muldoon was captain, who captained Murphy when he was at Connacht....I would call it amateur but that wouldn't happen at amateur level to be honest. Numerous players are still at Connacht who were there when he was. Going into new market now the league needs to take small things like this more seriously, only one chance to make a first impression and all that.

Lost Ormond

ClanofLams wrote: »

I'm not saying that should be done, I said that should be the goal. My only point is that the one ref who is an ex player shouldn't be reffing any of the two teams who he represented and that is obviously possible.

The league has handled it poorly, the first game I recall Murphy reffing was when Muldoon was captain, who captained Murphy when he was at Connacht....I would call it amateur but that wouldn't happen at amateur level to be honest. Numerous players are still at Connacht who were there when he was. Going into new market now the league needs to take small things like this more seriously, only one chance to make a first impression and all that.

In a very ideal world it could happen but if we want and we should want more former pros to referee and be refereeing at professional level then this ultimately will be part of that.
A policy of neutrality is probably possible, but it there would be compromises in quality and it works against the interests of the countries that have four teams in the competition, Wales and Ireland.

Do you want refs to be criticised for poor performances when neutral and theyre are not up to the mark or to be criticised for the perception that referee errors are caused by basically an accusation of bias

ClanofLams

Festive Life wrote: »

In a very ideal world it could happen but if we want and we should want more former pros to referee and be refereeing at professional level then this ultimately will be part of that.
A policy of neutrality is probably possible, but it there would be compromises in quality and it works against the interests of the countries that have four teams in the competition, Wales and Ireland.

Do you want refs to be criticised for poor performances when neutral and theyre are not up to the mark or to be criticised for the perception that referee errors are caused by basically an accusation of bias

I want the Pro14 to succeed. I don't want them to be setting themselves up for easy criticism when Connacht win a tight game against one of the new South African teams and Murphy is referee. I don't want poor optics to affect the league and this is poor optics.

I have no strong preference for ex professional players reffing to be honest, just as they don't always make the best coaches across sport I doubt there is any data to support the theory than ex professional player will be a better referee than an ex AIL player for example.

So Ulster sign Nakarawa on a one-year deal. I look forward to seeing what NIQ marquee signing the IRFU have for us in store. I won't hold my breath anyways ...

thomond2006

marley45 wrote: »

So Ulster sign Nakarawa on a one-year deal. I look forward to seeing what NIQ marquee signing the IRFU have for us in store. I won't hold my breath anyways ...

Nakarawa is replacing an NIE that is leaving early.
I'd be surprised if Munster or Leinster signed an NIE for what it's worth.

gally74

marley45 wrote: »

So Ulster sign Nakarawa on a one-year deal. I look forward to seeing what NIQ marquee signing the IRFU have for us in store. I won't hold my breath anyways ...

Robbie and Dorris to move home to the West...... if only

SqueakyKneecap

Friendy for 2 more years

connachta

SqueakyKneecap wrote: »

Friendy for 2 more years

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/10/27/us/politics/27trump-secondtermsub/merlin_177550761_d3195b11-be3f-427e-8501-d78659f42e2d-jumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp

BeardySi

SqueakyKneecap wrote: »

Friendy for 2 more years

I badly needed some good news this morning, this was far better than I was expecting

With last season and this being so heavily disrupted by covid he's never really had a chance to string a normal campaign together. Would have been gutted to see him leave before he got a proper crack at something...