Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

connachta

I don't want NIQ bad-spending like Boshoff/Horwitz at 10 anymore, anyway

realhorrorshow

Wegians89 wrote: »

Buckley, Duggan, McAllister
Heff, Delahunt, Murphy/DTM
Bealham, Aungier, McCoy, Kenny

Thornbury, Dillane, Murray
Roux, Dowling, (D. Murray)

Sob, masterson, prendergast
Butler, Oliver, (McCormack/ Booth)
Boyle, papalii/new signing, s. Masterson

Marmion, Blade, Reilly, Kerins
Carty, new, Fitz dean/Forde

Bundee, Daly
Farrell, Arnold, Jennings

Wootton, Healy
Porch, Toh, mcnulty
Sullivan, s. Fitz, kilgallen

Think Healy and Robb could be under pressure. Even someone like Toh, of he got a decent offer from somewhere else

Healy, Robb, and O'Halloran all under contract til 2022.

connachta

realhorrorshow wrote: »

Healy, Robb, and O'Halloran all under contract til 2022.

Yeah they are on my list Wegians missed Robb.

SOB has his opportunity now to start, no one else left outside Daly
Let's see what he does...

realhorrorshow

connachta wrote: »

Yeah they are on my list Wegians missed Robb.

SOB has his opportunity now to start, no one else left outside Daly
Let's see what he does...

We have 5 centres, none of whom are out of contract this summer. Hard to see a spot for him.

connachta

realhorrorshow wrote: »

We have 5 centres, none of whom are out of contract this summer. Hard to see a spot for him.

Well if Jennings isn't up to it, he may be worth a dev contract, Robb/Farrell are injury prone and Aki absent....


The most intellegent thing might be to release him and S.Fitz and sign a 13/14 like Poolman or... Godwin. But there are plenty with this profile

realhorrorshow

Senior squad 21/22 (ages at 1/9/21)

Loosehead

Denis Buckley (31) - Signed 2 year contract in 2019
Matthew Burke (24) - Signed contract in 2019
Jordan Duggan (23) - Signed contract in 2020
Paddy McAllister (32) - Signed contract in 2019

Charlie Ward (21) - Academy year 1

Would be happy to see us retain all 4 but if the Pro14 season is shortened I wonder will teams try get away with 10 front rowers, split 3-3-4 respectively between loosehead, hooker, and tighthead. If finances are a concern, Burke may get the nod as presumably the cheaper option.

Tighthead

Jack Aungier (22) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Finlay Bealham (30) - Signed 2 year contract in 2019
Conor Kenny (25) - Signed 1 year contract in 2020
Dominic Robertson-McCoy (27) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020

See no reason to make any changes here, re-signing Bealham is a big priority.

Hooker

Shane Delahunt (27) - Signed 1 year contract in 2020
Dave Heffernan (30) - Signed contract in 2019
Jonny Murphy (29) - Signed contract in 2018

Declan Adamson (22) - Academy year 2
Eoin De Buitléar (u21) - Academy year 1
Dylan Tierney-Martin (22) - Academy year 3

Heffernan and Delahunt are a great pair of options and hopefully both will be retained. Most would have expected Tierney-Martin to have ousted Murphy by now, but he hasn't yet forced the issue. The lack of rugby over the last year won't have helped him. Adamson is in a tough spot, not an obvious prospect and has DTM slightly ahead of him and de Buitléar and Kolo Kiripati in his rear-view mirror.

Lock

Ultan Dillane (27) - Signed 2 year contract in 2019
Oisin Dowling (24) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Cillian Gallagher (24) - Signed contract in 2018
Niall Murray (21) - Signed contract in 2020
Quinn Roux (30) - Signed 2 year contract in 2019
Gavin Thornbury (27) - Signed 2 year contract in 2019

Darragh Murray (u21) - Academy year 1

Really can't afford to lose any of our three main players. Maybe Cillian Gallagher could do with a change of scenery, like Conor Oliver at Munster he is cursed with injuries and perhaps like Oliver things could improve for him elsewhere. No rush on Darragh Murray.


Back row

Paul Boyle (24) - Signed 2 year contract in 2019
Jarrad Butler (30) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Eoghan Masterson (28) - Signed 2 year contract in 2018
Sean Masterson (23) - Signed contract in 2020
Sean O'Brien (26) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Conor Oliver (25) - Signed 1 year contract in 2020
Abraham Papali’i (28) - Signed contract in 2020

Ciaran Booth (21) - Academy year 1
Donnacha Byrne (u21) - Academy year 1
Hubert Costello (u21) - Academy year 1
Joshua Dunne (21) - Academy year 3
Oisin McCormack (20) - Academy year 2
Cian Prendergast (21) - Academy year 1

Getting Paul Boyle tied down is a very important piece of business this year. Conor Oliver was the only signing last summer to be given a one-year deal, presumably due to his injury record. He has more than proven himself and is now a key part of the squad. Hopefully the Mastersons stick around. I'm torn on Papali'i to be honest. Hard to know where Josh Dunne stands. Hasn't really made a huge impression thus far but is still very young. Rough spot for all the young lads.

Scrumhalf

Caolin Blade (27) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Stephen Kerins (25) - Signed contract in 2019
Kieran Marmion (29) - Signed 3 year contract in 2020
Colm Reilly (22) - Signed contract in 2020

Less stress here with two great players locked down beyond the summer. Reilly look like one for the future. Kerins has never fulfilled his potential but might still be needed. Assume Matthew Devine will join the academy but he's too young to be de facto 4th choice.

Outhalf

Jack Carty (29) - Signed 2 year contract in 2019
Conor Dean (23) - Signed contract in 2020
Conor Fitzgerald (23) - Signed contract in 2019

Cathal Forde (20) - Academy year 1

Carty is another key renewal. I think we have a problem here in that we have our first choice and then two young prospects, ideally the breakdown would be 1st choice > trusted backup > young player with potential.

Centre

Bundee Aki (29) - Signed 3 year central contract in 2020
Sammy Arnold (25) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Tom Daly (28) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Tom Farrell (27) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Peter Robb (27) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020

Shane Jennings (20) - Academy year 2
Sean O'Brien (23) - Academy year 3

Nothing much going on here, with 5 players all contracted beyond the summer. Hard to see O'Brien getting a deal, with the budget cuts it would be hard to justify carrying 6 centres.

Back 3

Stephen Fitzgerald (25) - Signed contract in 2019
Matt Healy (32) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Ben O'Donnell (26) - Signed contract in 2020
Tiernan O'Halloran (30) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
John Porch (27) - Signed contract in 2019
Peter Sullivan (23) - Signed contract in 2020
Alex Wootton (27) - Signed 1 year loan contract in 2020

Colm de Buitléar (23) - Academy year 3
Diarmuid Kilgallen (21) - Academy year 1
Oran McNulty (21) - Academy year 3

John Porch is a must-sign, hopefully Wootton stays on too. Sullivan has shown enough to suggest he can be a factor moving forward. Fitxgerald Sr is a tough one, hopefully he gets a few games in before the end of the season to try earn a deal. I assume McNulty will be kept and de Buitléar won't.

thomond2006

Papali'i came off early again despite getting a break as a sinbin replacement. Add in the liability as a tackler and I don't see why he'd be retained.

Wootton will hopefully stay on. It's been great to see him doing so well.

connachta

So everyone here saw Wootton make tackles?

The same that point Lowe weakness?

freyners

thomond2006 wrote: »

Papali'i came off early again despite getting a break as a sinbin replacement. Add in the liability as a tackler and I don't see why he'd be retained.

Wootton will hopefully stay on. It's been great to see him doing so well.

Coming over they highlighted they would need to work on his conditioning and his suspensions have cut down on his match time so his progress here has been stunted.

I'd keep him to be honest, the tackle against dragons his dipped a lot and the player he hit was falling, anyone else it would be seen in a far less negative light but his card is marked now and everyone is watching it closely. He made a good few other tackles and while its still a wait and see I thought you could see the work being done there

His carrying is something we don't have in any other forward except Boyle (whose style is different but v effective) and Dillane intermittently, assuming the money is low I would keep him for another year personally.

ShineyShiney

connachta wrote: »

So everyone here saw Wootton make tackles?

The same that point Lowe weakness?

Yep I'm perfectly happy with his defensive contributions. Chases hard, covers the back field well, decent in the air and has made plenty of good reads on defence. Like a lot of wingers he will miss a couple of tackles every now and then but in a one v one I'd have him ahead of every other back 3 player we have except porch. It's not like TOH or Healy are great in this aspect!! While also giving us real attacking threat and finishing, something we have lacked over the years.

On our squad I'd think there's a decision to be made on papili, hooker and back 3.

I like what he offers in terms of gain line success but I'm concerned about what he doesn't offer, fitness, rugby knowledge, lineout, turn over and positional versatility. It will come down to 3 things imo Boyle resigning, Oliver resigning and alternative players available in the Irish system on similar €€€

Gallaghers injury record will leave him in danger and if he left we don't need to replace with a lock and on 3/4 choice hooker we have 2 year 3 guys who haven't played are they good enough to take Johnny Murphy's place who while not challenging heffernan and delahunt hasn't been bad at all. The back 3 slot up for grabs imo is Sfitzgeralds who has been solid if unspectacular prior to injury and the timing and severity of the injury might just go against him, I'd like to see loyalty where possible to players injured in the cause but coinciding with financial constraints might make a Dev offer for McNulty or another academy back leave us a few € for another position.

connachta

ShineyShiney wrote: »

Yep I'm perfectly happy with his defensive contributions. Chases hard, covers the back field well, decent in the air and has made plenty of good reads on defence. Like a lot of wingers he will miss a couple of tackles every now and then but in a one v one I'd have him ahead of every other back 3 player we have except porch. It's not like TOH or Healy are great in this aspect!! While also giving us real attacking threat and finishing, something we have lacked over the years.

On our squad I'd think there's a decision to be made on papili, hooker and back 3.

I like what he offers in terms of gain line success but I'm concerned about what he doesn't offer, fitness, rugby knowledge, lineout, turn over and positional versatility. It will come down to 3 things imo Boyle resigning, Oliver resigning and alternative players available in the Irish system on similar €€€

Gallaghers injury record will leave him in danger and if he left we don't need to replace with a lock and on 3/4 choice hooker we have 2 year 3 guys who haven't played are they good enough to take Johnny Murphy's place who while not challenging heffernan and delahunt hasn't been bad at all. The back 3 slot up for grabs imo is Sfitzgeralds who has been solid if unspectacular prior to injury and the timing and severity of the injury might just go against him, I'd like to see loyalty where possible to players injured in the cause but coinciding with financial constraints might make a Dev offer for McNulty or another academy back leave us a few € for another position.

He does not miss "a couple". He does not complete one real tackle, only at best slowing down the opponent so that another comes to rescue.
That's clear and fact.


The rest of your point may be right, positionning and so on. I'll look closely about this

Wegians89

Wootton and porch would be the first two names of I was picking a starting back 3.

Bazzo

Wootton is not worth keeping might be the hottest take of the year.

SqueakyKneecap

Wooton is genuinely our best winger in years too

Wegians89

Think Sullivan is starting to nail down that right wing spot. Been very impressed with him

KBurke85

Some Stats on Wooton

https://www.rugbypass.com/pro-14/teams/connacht/players/alex-wootton/statistics/

siltirocker

I think Wooton is our best attacking back 3 threat currently.

I also think this blinds people to the fact that he misses tackles frequently, I'd say he misses every 3rd of 4th one he should be making. (Porch was in the same boat but has improved massively. O'Sullivan misses a criminal amount too). But more importantly, is out of position in defense often. Their is a reason team advance so many metres against us when they go wide.

realhorrorshow

I think the issue is multifaceted. For a start Wootton is not a good tackler. A passable defender, but not a strong tackler at all. To compound this, our narrow defence consistently exposes our back 3. They make so many interceptions because they are routinely in situations where it is there only option due to huge overlaps. How often to you see Dave Kearney having to make last ditch decisions on the edge?

I don't think our guys are terrible defenders, nor are they great. But our defensive system definitely makes them look worse imo.

siltirocker

siltirocker wrote: »

Wooton misses tackles frequently, I'd say he misses every 3rd of 4th one he should be making. (Porch was in the same boat but has improved massively. O'Sullivan misses a criminal amount too).

KBurke85 wrote: »

Some Stats on Wooton

https://www.rugbypass.com/pro-14/teams/connacht/players/alex-wootton/statistics/

The stat website posted by KBurke85 seems to support this pretty well actually.

Wooton hit 72% of his tackles in 2020, and 75% since the New Year. Not criminal, but not great. Porch hit 74% of his tackles in 2020 but has improved to a very impressive 89% in 2021. O'Sullivan has dropped from 75% to 47%.

ShineyShiney

siltirocker wrote: »

The stat website posted by KBurke85 seems to support this pretty well actually.

Wooton hit 72% of his tackles in 2020, and 75% since the New Year. Not criminal, but not great. Porch hit 74% of his tackles in 2020 but has improved to a very impressive 89% in 2021. O'Sullivan has dropped from 75% to 47%.

While stats won't show everything they certainly don't support Connachta's assertion that he doesn't tackle. He's an excellent attacking winger and a good defender with room for improvement in his tackling according to the stats.

So basically he's a winger, if he was slower and a big tackler he'd be a centre.

siltirocker

ShineyShiney wrote: »

While stats won't show everything they certainly don't support Connachta's assertion that he doesn't tackle. He's an excellent attacking winger and a good defender with room for improvement in his tackling according to the stats.

So basically he's a winger, if he was slower and a big tackler he'd be a centre.

I just can't agree with the assertation he is a "good defender". With improvement he can be a good defender but I think his defense has been poor. A quick spin back of the tries we've conceded has him consistently being turned, or slipping off tackles. I'm not saying he's bad or awful or anything, but I can't get onboard with the positive angle of 'good'.

I would agree much more with realhorrorshow's assessment of him as "A passable defender".

connachta

siltirocker wrote: »

I just can't agree with the assertation he is a "good defender". With improvement he can be a good defender but I think his defense has been poor. A quick spin back of the tries we've conceded has him consistently being turned, or slipping off tackles. I'm not saying he's bad or awful or anything, but I can't get onboard with the positive angle of 'good'.

I would agree much more with realhorrorshow's assessment of him as "A passable defender".

I strongly disagree with those stats counting "tackles" when a player is barely held and another defender comes helping...

But I've never EVER said he should be released. Just that between him, Sullivan and S.Fitz, if we are forced to chose, it's not that crystal clear.
Porch, running into traffic + high balls + kicks is another (brillant) category IMO

KBurke85

connachta wrote: »

I strongly disagree with those stats counting "tackles" when a player is barely held and another defender comes helping...

But I've never EVER said he should be released. Just that between him, Sullivan and S.Fitz, if we are forced to chose, it's not that crystal clear.
Porch, running into traffic + high balls + kicks is another (brillant) category IMO

Wooton would be ahead of both all day long if it came to it.

siltirocker

KBurke85 wrote: »

Wooton would be ahead of both all day long if it came to it.

Ya, for all my picking at his defensive abilities. (Experience with Porch will eventually sort out the positioning, and a bespoke program of improving his defensive step and tackler are in no ways out of reach). He is such a potent attacker that he would have to be ahead of the other two.

connachta

What I mean is for exemple Healy worked (he said it) and massively improved his tackling technique.
Wootton has not for now.

Work to be done.

ElisaAtWar

connachta wrote: »

What I mean is for exemple Healy worked (he said it) and massively improved his tackling technique.
Wootton has not for now.

Work to be done.

It's a sevens game Connacht play. Never seen so many trys from interceptions. Usually Connacht would have been crucified by same in years past. We can't maul, we can't defend. Andy Friend is a nice guy but he has a lot to learn. In the meantime Connacht sit in limbo

ElisaAtWar

At least TOH created some semblance of reality on how a team defends. But this Andy Friend experiment does not compute in the PRO12. While there's is an enthusiasm to attack this Connacht team is all over the shop. I have never witnessed Connacht being in such a bad place.

There is no leadership, the structure of the play is nuts, but the most frustrating part is the ability available. As some might guess I am no friend of Andy Friend. He has no clue how to coach a rugby union team. And Connacht will suffer for this

ElisaAtWar

And thomond2006 suggests Wooten is doing well at Connacht. But it's just a fabrication. Wooten breaks the line, runs the field, scores many trys. At the same time Wooten defensive percentages suck. And that's the reality. But it's not Wooten's issue, Andy Friend is not a rugby union coach

ShineyShiney

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

At least TOH created some semblance of reality on how a team defends. But this Andy Friend experiment does not compute in the PRO12. While there's is an enthusiasm to attack this Connacht team is all over the shop. I have never witnessed Connacht being in such a bad place.

There is no leadership, the structure of the play is nuts, but the most frustrating part is the ability available. As some might guess I am no friend of Andy Friend. He has no clue how to coach a rugby union team. And Connacht will suffer for this

Second in our league, on target for European qualification, multiple players getting Irish recognition ..... What did Andy friend do to you, piss in your cornflakes?

realhorrorshow

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

At least TOH created some semblance of reality on how a team defends. But this Andy Friend experiment does not compute in the PRO12. While there's is an enthusiasm to attack this Connacht team is all over the shop. I have never witnessed Connacht being in such a bad place.

There is no leadership, the structure of the play is nuts, but the most frustrating part is the ability available. As some might guess I am no friend of Andy Friend. He has no clue how to coach a rugby union team. And Connacht will suffer for this

Easy to know you're not a Connacht fan! We have definitely been frustrating this season, and I do have concerns around our discipline, decision making, and focus. But taking a step back, we really aren't that bad. I grew up watching us lose at home to teams that don't even exist anymore. We're not even that far removed from Pat's last season and the Kieran Keane reign, which were far worse than this season.