Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309183#Comment_120309183

I think Bolton might be better on the wing tbh. Good with ball in hand but struggles with some of the core skills of a centre from what I've seen; timing of runs in attack and defensive positioning.

Really nice team imo, with lots of combinations that complement each other nicely. Could do with a traditional tighthead lock but we need to make do with the resources we have. I love how strongly we've backed Cathal Forde.

connachta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309183#Comment_120309183

Except Murphy I'm not convinced about, and still it's ok as we need experience in that rather young team, very excited too!

means :

• Dowling Hawkshaw and Boyle will make us win such a crucial game, 3 of the most regularly good this season
• Forde is defo the future
• Bolton is not gone yet then, and Jennings is not a pure 7's player, I suspect he'll become a regular after Olympics

connachta

Among the 23 players :

21 to 23 y-o

9 players

(forde, bolton, murray, tierney, jennings, prendergast, hawkshaw, reilly, illo)

24-30

9 players

(blade, aungier, farrell, porch, oliver, murphy, boyle, dooley, dowling)

30+

5 players

(carty, TOH, buckley, heff, butler)

ClanofLams

Is Marmion injured or is this the dumb weakening your squad because a player is leaving policy?

Must win game, all for development if/when games are effectively meaningless but should be best 23 at this stage

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309022#Comment_120309022

I wouldn't expect to see Marmion in the away games, but I would expect him to feature in at least one of the two last home games, probably from the bench.

Utopia Parkway

Murray Kinsella saying that Marmion was only offered a 1 year deal and it "wasn't a great offer". Seems like he was offered a contract by Connacht that they knew he would probably turn down.

Also mentioned other players getting "quite poor" contract offers. And there being a lot of uncertainty at Connacht at the moment.

Wegians89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309520#Comment_120309520

Easy to forget how young Murray and Prendergast are. Also thought Bolton was a bit older

KBurke85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309798#Comment_120309798

Understandable that our playing budget will be a bit lower in the next few years with the performance centre and stands to be built. Connacht do have to fund some of that themselves.

ElisaAtWar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309584#Comment_120309584

This just like a dumb decision. Marmion I believe will be critical to how Connacht end this season. And how Connacht end this season is important to it's funding for next year. I understand it's important that Reilly gets game time to step up for next year, but the important thing is we achieve Champions Cup rugby next year. So this is a utterly stupid decision based on bias rather than what is best for Connacht

SqueakyKneecap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310491#Comment_120310491

Who's the say Reilly won't step-up in the close season now that he's been given a higher significance in the setup? Like or not, if Marmion is gone we've to blood Reilly in as much as we can from here on out. You'd absolute destroy a lad's confidence dropping him for a lad with weeks left on his contract. I've great time for Marmion (a club legend imo) but similar to Dillane this is professional sport and we need to focus on what's ahead. We already saw what happened when Niall Murray was backed last season.

ElisaAtWar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310959#Comment_120310959

You are really missing the point SqueakyKneeCap. The next games for Connacht are simply critical. For more reasons that you could imagine. It is not the time for gripes

SqueakyKneecap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311158#Comment_120311158

He made his bed Elisa. There's no gripes about it. We'll either be good enough without him or we don't deserve Champions Cup rugby. Marmion isn't going to be the difference. The losses to Newcastle and Ulster at home could be though.

Zeugnis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310959#Comment_120310959

I don't want to be needlessly argumentative but i don't think the comparison with Dillane is useful. He had been playing poorly for some time before it became clear he was on the way out the door. Marmion is operating at his usual high level. Ultan was great for us for years, and I'm a fan of his, but in his position there was clear emerging strength (Murray, Dowling) as well as a fellow senior lock who was performing at an extremely high level (Thornbury). We don't have that situation at 9.

And to stick with the lock theme, we're signing Joe Joyce who we need for what exactly? To my eyes that's a salary better spent elsewhere. and that's nothing against JJ, i hope his performances make me rue my words.

Zeugnis

On a different note, whoever is responsible for this talk about homegrown or local players getting priority is some eejit. It sounds to me like a pub theory of contract renewals that got picked up by the wind, but this is very damaging.

Connacht has long been home for players from all four provinces, the exiles, and NIQs - it's part of the province's identity. I am not obsessed by media etc but i do believe that the province/ruane should make a public statement refuting the supposed grounds for such a policy (which i hope and believe does not exist).

In no way should the development of the sport in the province and contracting the best players for the provincial team be seen as representing conflicting approaches. This nativist talk is ridiculous, and to hear it even floated at as an explanation for the treatment of Marmion is deeply nauseating.

connachta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311590#Comment_120311590

Joyce is prob the neediest signing we made

-Fifita's leaving, Joyce is IQ and younger

-Thornbury constantly injured

-neither Dowling nor Murphy are real locks

-we can't rely on 21 y-o D.Murray, as promising as he is

-Joyce is a physical profile when we have only light options in this position

Don't know if it's gonna work but it's a smart purchase

ClanofLams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311395#Comment_120311395

I don’t think it’s right to call him turning down a poor contract offer “making his bed”. That was inevitably going to be turned down, it’s not like he had two comparable offers and opted to leave.

I’m a bit confused by all this developmental talk. Connacht seem to spend all their time developing, Newcastle away was used for development. To what end are Connacht developing players?

Surely the aim is for Connacht to make the league play offs and Champions cup. “Development” shouldn’t be placed ahead of achievement.

It seems hyperbolic to me also to suggest Reillys confidence would be destroyed by Marmion being selected. There’s a pretty good argument for Marmion being the most accomplished player in Connacht’s history, given his achievements at both provincial and international level, he absolutely is in the professional era. There is no shame in being behind him for selection.

I would go as far to suggest that by not selecting Marmion, Connacht are repeating a mistake made already this season in Newcastle and not selecting the best 23 to deliver victory. Winning should be the only priority in games like these, there is no shortage of developmental opportunities at other times in the calendar.

I'd agree that all this "locals" talk is still in the realm of pub theory. Until the branch finish up the contracting for next year they're going to need to keep their heads down but hopefully the messaging will get cleared up then. For now the coaches and management need to focus on the atmosphere in squad, and not what we Internet Wafflers think.

As for Marmion not playing this weekend, I'm completely unsurprised. He's just had to chose to move on for financial reasons only. It's not just a job change - it's the last 12 years of his life being uprooted in the Summer. Hardly the ideal preparation. Dragons are the weakest team we'll play between now and the end of the season and Reilly will be eager to show that he deserves the faith that's been placed on him.

Marmion will definitely see game time in our run in if he's fit and his head is in the right place.

salmocab

There is no way Connacht have a policy on favouring the local lads for contract stuff, they more than the other provinces need to sign from outside and if nothing else that policy would put off potential signings. It’s bullshit.

sydthebeat

Marmions been at connacht for 11 years. He'll be 32 next season. As a capped player he commands a certain level of salary here, but liked many international players at different provinces before him, there is a point at which that salary is uneconomical. Marmion is at that point now.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310227#Comment_120310227

How is that? Isn't all just the IRFU at the end of the day?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311863#Comment_120311863

I think Joe Joyce will be a good signing so long as he's fit. He had a shoulder injury and surgery just after we signed him, and is just returning from a second shoulder injury he picked up in November. Hopefully the lad has gotten himself sorted now.

Having a powerful 115Kg+ lock in our pack will help our mobile forwards use their athleticism around the pitch. I think Josh Murphy is a good example of this - he looked excellent as a mobile lock/six in a heavier dominant Leinster pack but when he plays for us I think he's struggling to get into the game. A fit Thornbury gets us there but he can't play every game and the fit part has been an issue.

Joyce has also spent years as a club captain and has been through ups and downs. We could really do with another calm experienced head on and off the pitch.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312226#Comment_120312226

Exactly this.

When Marmion signed his last contract, he was in his 20s, first choice at Connacht and on the fringes of the Ireland squad. He's none of those now.

You'd love to be able to pay everyone what they're "worth" but we have to be disciplined because Wales.

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311629#Comment_120311629

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312185#Comment_120312185

Murray Kinsella on the42's podcast talked about hearing of the "locals first" policy directly from Connacht players. He's unfortunately not one to spread baseless information.

testtech05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312483#Comment_120312483

Ya agreed about Murray in fairness to him he's one of the best rugby journalists around and usually fairly on the ball with this stuff so I would say it's more than pub talk or rumours

SqueakyKneecap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311974#Comment_120311974

The "poor" contract offer was a gesture more than them thumbing their noses at him, and Marmion was spot on to reject it. It's a sign that they'd like to have kept him but the IRFU aren't going to pony up the additional money for a lad that might not even be 6th choice scrum-half at international level. We can't afford 200k on a lad that isn't an undisputed starter.

As for the Newcastle away point I can't see the comparison at all. Management needlessly rested first choicers even with a week recovery time to come. Reilly isn't some scrub, he's played well in cameos he's been given but he needs to be taken to the next level. There's nothing to say Marmion would have the same motivation as a lad that has years more to offer. That's nothing against Marmion either, it'd be only natural to be looking ahead to Bristol in his shoes. Throwing Reilly into cup final-level important matches is only going to benefit him.

ElisaAtWar

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1qYNoZ8pduBXyqZZ0pVuhH?si=AOuNAcMNRu-iufRuz7UqdA

BleedGreen

The "locals first" policy probably exists to a small extent when making tough decisions that also include who is more affordable and has more of a future. Porch was our first re-signing, Illo re-signed, Thornbury too, Joyce coming in, so it's not a cut and dry rule regardless of if there's an element of it existing or not.

ClanofLams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312652#Comment_120312652

My point in relation to Marmion not being in the 23 was that Connacht have rotated a lot in recent years in important games and I don’t think that puts a good message out, the only aim should be to win them, pick the best 23 to achieve that.

There’s nothing to suggest Marmion wouldn’t have the same motivation, he’s been a consummate professional for over a decade.

ClanofLams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312423#Comment_120312423

Plenty of players have undergone a similar transition, Dave Kearney at Leinster being an obvious example.

Nobody here knows the details of the negotiations but what’s going to happen is Connacht will bring in a cheaper alternative that weakens the squad. Marmion was eager to stay in Galway so I doubt he was demanding every euro possible, just a reasonable two year deal.

Maybe it’ll be worth the €X saved, difficult to say without all the details but I wouldn’t be overly confident.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312963#Comment_120312963

For sure, and I'll bet Dave Kearney's current contract is a lot different to the ones he was signing when he was starting for Ireland at the world cup.

The Marmion issue isn't new, or specific to Marmion or to Connacht, it's how IRFU have always played it.

But you're absolutely right, none of that helps Connacht for next season