Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

Zeugnis

b.gud wrote: »

SOB 3.0 to Exeter confirmed he arrived there this week

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1400375217717977089

Good discussion about the Sean O'Brien transfer on the 42's podcast today, Jackman is emphatic that this should not have happened:
https://soundcloud.com/user-200743868/the-great-sean-obrien-debate-plus-nucifora-once-again-leaves-us-with-more-questions-than-answers

There's also an interesting section about expanding the player pool, the neglect of the AIL, and a pretty critical assessment of what the IRFU are up to more generally.

Zeugnis

realhorrorshow wrote: »

Robb was very good last season IMO, coincidentally the only season he has managed double digits starts in his senior career. He started two Champions Cup games, including the win over Gloucester. I can't recall specific performances but I do remember he was utterly dominant in the Pro 14, the lower-to-mid level teams couldn't handle him.

Sam Arnold started 19 games and scored 6 tries for Munster in 17-18 as a 21 year old. His form led to him getting an Ireland cap in the 2018 AIs. He started 4 Champions Cup games and I seem to remember was excellent away to Racing.

Obviously both have had their injury struggles since then but judging purely on their ability both are more than good enough for the positions they occupy within our depth chart.

Thanks for the references, I'll dig out those Champions Cup games and look at Robb again. But i don't think we are looking for a player who can dominate poor teams in the pro-14, that can't be our level of ambition.

Arnold has been decent for us since his arrival, and he's honest, doesn't phone it in. But Munster must have felt that his ceiling didn't match their expectations, or they wouldn't have let him go. Now things change, and Connacht has been a place which has enabled players to progress beyond what they were thought capable of (look at Tom Daly), but I just feel that O'Brien's form, age, and progress should have gotten him a contract, if someone had to go, let it be one of the others. Instead, one of Europe's top teams have plans for him and Baxter apparently sees him in contention as a starter.

Glad to see Tom Farrell is training again. I thought Bundee was poor against Treviso. After a promising start to the season I think he has contributed little to Connacht this year. Think I'm starting to see the world from ElisaAtWar's angle...

ClanofLams

3 Connacht starters for Irish u20s this week, Cathal Forde and Shane Jennings in the centre with Oisin McCormack at 7.

Eoin De Buitléar, Diarmuid McCormack and Donnacha Byrne on the bench.

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2021/06/03/ireland-u20s-team-to-face-munster-a-named/

It’s a 26 man squad this having been 32 last week for challenge against Leinster so maybe getting closer to the final squad for the six nations which starts in a couple of weeks.

ShineyShiney

Zeugnis wrote: »

Thanks for the references, I'll dig out those Champions Cup games and look at Robb again. But i don't think we are looking for a player who can dominate poor teams in the pro-14, that can't be our level of ambition.

Arnold has been decent for us since his arrival, and he's honest, doesn't phone it in. But Munster must have felt that his ceiling didn't match their expectations, or they wouldn't have let him go. Now things change, and Connacht has been a place which has enabled players to progress beyond what they were thought capable of (look at Tom Daly), but I just feel that O'Brien's form, age, and progress should have gotten him a contract, if someone had to go, let it be one of the others. Instead, one of Europe's top teams have plans for him and Baxter apparently sees him in contention as a starter.

Glad to see Tom Farrell is training again. I thought Bundee was poor against Treviso. After a promising start to the season I think he has contributed little to Connacht this year. Think I'm starting to see the world from ElisaAtWar's angle...

Arnold was offered a contract at Munster but chose to move iirc

testtech05

ShineyShiney wrote: »

Arnold was offered a contract at Munster but chose to move iirc

I would imagine O'Brien was offered a contract by us too, just perhaps the money we could afford for a lad just out of the academy vs what Exeter could offer was probably the issue.

Edit: Actually from reading the article on the 42 it sounds like he had signed before he got his run of games for us.

Zeugnis

ShineyShiney wrote: »

Arnold was offered a contract at Munster but chose to move iirc

I don't believe so, wasn't in the coverage which I read. With the prospect of De Allende's arrival opportunities had taken a nose-dive, so it wouldn't have been illogical for him to see, 'I'm off for game time elsewhere', but he may have also felt behind Scannell and Goggin.

in any case, I'm not fixated on Arnold. When they played him on the wing against Munster, I hoped they were experimenting with a reorganisation that could have allowed O'Brien to stay. But it was probably too late at that point.

Robb's contract is up in 2022, with his injury record next season will be decisive.

ps If the JJ Hanrahan story is anything to go by, Munster know how to offer a contract so bad, that it's basically a message you're not wanted.

Bazzo

Zeugnis wrote: »

I don't believe so, wasn't in the coverage which I read. With the prospect of De Allende's arrival opportunities had taken a nose-dive, so it wouldn't have been illogical for him to see, 'I'm off for game time elsewhere', but he may have also felt behind Scannell and Goggin.

in any case, I'm not fixated on Arnold. When they played him on the wing against Munster, I hoped they were experimenting with a reorganisation that could have allowed O'Brien to stay. But it was probably too late at that point.

Robb's contract is up in 2022, with his injury record next season will be decisive.

ps If the JJ Hanrahan story is anything to go by, Munster know how to offer a contract so bad, that it's basically a message you're not wanted.

It was definitely reported at the time that Arnold had offers from Connacht and Munster and chose Connacht.

ShineyShiney

Zeugnis wrote: »

I don't believe so, wasn't in the coverage which I read. With the prospect of De Allende's arrival opportunities had taken a nose-dive, so it wouldn't have been illogical for him to see, 'I'm off for game time elsewhere', but he may have also felt behind Scannell and Goggin.

in any case, I'm not fixated on Arnold. When they played him on the wing against Munster, I hoped they were experimenting with a reorganisation that could have allowed O'Brien to stay. But it was probably too late at that point.

Robb's contract is up in 2022, with his injury record next season will be decisive.

ps If the JJ Hanrahan story is anything to go by, Munster know how to offer a contract so bad, that it's basically a message you're not wanted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-40203617.html

Zeugnis

ShineyShiney wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-40203617.html

Consider me corrected

testtech05

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/news/abraham-papalii-disciplinary-decision

Had expected worse tbh

thomond2006

However, in the Player’s responses, not only did he display a frank and honest recognition of his offending but also a serious commitment and determination to addressing it in practical terms so that no additional suspension was imposed.

Oh, so that's ok then.

Fool me thrice. It's laughable.

tobdom

testtech05 wrote: »

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/news/abraham-papalii-disciplinary-decision

Had expected worse tbh

I had expected an awful lot worse, kind of surprised by that really.

While I'm glad for him and really hope that he can drastically & consistently improve his technique, so that we can get the best out of him (because he has a lot to offer), this isn't really a great deterrent when you can have multiple red cards (although I do feel he has been 'unlucky' in some) and still receive a quite lenient ban...... but there's major consistency issues with the whole disciplinary process anyway.

All-in-all, good news (for Connacht).

SqueakyKneecap

He has a hell of a lot of work to do to sort out his tackling technique and I have my doubts he'll successfully sort it personally. A very lenient sentence considering it's his 3rd red in relatively short window.

connachta

testtech05 wrote: »

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/news/abraham-papalii-disciplinary-decision

Had expected worse tbh

Relief!

the 2 1st was harsh, it came into account IMO

Final chance for him

realhorrorshow

Loosehead

Denis Buckley (31) - Signed contract in 2021
Matthew Burke (24) - Signed contract in 2021
Jordan Duggan (23) - Signed contract in 2021
Paddy McAllister (32) - Signed contract in 2019

Charlie Ward (21) - Academy year 1

Tighthead

Jack Aungier (22) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Finlay Bealham (30) - Signed contract in 2021
Conor Kenny (25) - Signed 1 year contract in 2020
Dominic Robertson-McCoy (27) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020

Hooker

Shane Delahunt (27) - Signed contract in 2021
Dave Heffernan (30) - Signed contract in 2021
Jonny Murphy (29) - Signed contract in 2021
Dylan Tierney-Martin (22) - Signed contract in 2021

Declan Adamson (22) - Academy year 2
Eoin De Buitléar (u21) - Academy year 1

Lock

Ultan Dillane (27) - Signed contract in 2021
Oisin Dowling (24) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Leva Fifita (32) - Signed contract in 2021
Cillian Gallagher (24) - Signed contract in 2018
Niall Murray (21) - Signed contract in 2021
Gavin Thornbury (27) - Signed contract in 2021

Darragh Murray (u21) - Academy year 1

Back row

Paul Boyle (24) - Signed contract in 2021
Jarrad Butler (30) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Eoghan Masterson (28) - Signed contract in 2021
Sean Masterson (23) - Signed contract in 2021
Sean O'Brien (26) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Conor Oliver (25) - Signed contract in 2021
Abraham Papali’i (28) - Signed contract in 2021
Cian Prendergast (21) - Signed contract in 2021

Ciaran Booth (21) - Academy year 1
Donnacha Byrne (u21) - Academy year 1
Hubert Costello (u21) - Academy year 1
Joshua Dunne (21) - Academy year 3
Oisin McCormack (20) - Academy year 2

Scrumhalf

Caolin Blade (27) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Stephen Kerins (25) - Signed contract in 2019
Kieran Marmion (29) - Signed 3 year contract in 2020
Colm Reilly (22) - Signed contract in 2021

Outhalf

Jack Carty (29) - Signed contract in 2021
Conor Dean (23) - Signed contract in 2020
Conor Fitzgerald (23) - Signed contract in 2021

Cathal Forde (20) - Academy year 1

Centre

Bundee Aki (31) - Signed 3 year central contract in 2020
Sammy Arnold (25) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Tom Daly (28) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Tom Farrell (27) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Peter Robb (27) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020

Shane Jennings (20) - Academy year 2

Back 3

Mack Hansen (23) - Signed 2 year contract in 2021
Matt Healy (32) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
Oran McNulty (21) - Signed contract in 2021
Ben O'Donnell (26) - Signed contract in 2020
Tiernan O'Halloran (30) - Signed 2 year contract in 2020
John Porch (27) - Signed contract in 2021
Peter Sullivan (23) - Signed contract in 2021
Alex Wootton (27) - Signed contract in 2021

Colm de Buitléar (23) - Academy year 3
Diarmuid Kilgallen (21) - Academy year 1

IN: Leva Fifita (Lock, Grenoble), Mack Hansen (Back 3, Brumbies)
OUT: Quinn Roux (Lock, TBC), Sean O'Brien (Centre, Exeter), Stephen Fitzgerald (Back 3, retiring)

*ages as at 01/09/2021

thomond2006

SqueakyKneecap wrote: »

He has a hell of a lot of work to do to sort out his tackling technique and I have my doubts he'll successfully sort it personally. A very lenient sentence considering it's his 3rd red in relatively short window.

"Like I said the last time Ted, it won't happen again".

realhorrorshow

Given that we're not making any more signings, hopefully we re-sign McAllister and Kenny, 6 props is far from enough. You'd have to imagine Gallagher, Dunne, Kerins, Dean, and de Buitléar will be let go.

Bazzo, I haven't been able to bring myself to wade through the endless sea of endorsements on the players' Instagram account to find contract lengths but I will soon, I promise.

ClanofLams

tobdom wrote: »

I had expected an awful lot worse, kind of surprised by that really.

While I'm glad for him and really hope that he can drastically & consistently improve his technique, so that we can get the best out of him (because he has a lot to offer), this isn't really a great deterrent when you can have multiple red cards (although I do feel he has been 'unlucky' in some) and still receive a quite lenient ban...... but there's major consistency issues with the whole disciplinary process anyway.

All-in-all, good news (for Connacht).

Agree with this, would imagine the unusual context of him moving to union at 27 at a time of much greater focus on tackle height meant the Committee gave him a bit of a break.

Delighted for him, can’t be easy to move to the other side of the world in a pandemic and he certainly seems to be putting massive effort given how much his conditioning has improved. Has a few months now to sort out tackling technique, hopefully he will manage it because definitely last chance saloon now.

FACECUTTR

So that's tonight's game and the first 3 competitive games of the new season I take it ?
I honestly was expecting 8 weeks at least. He should be just tackling at waist level and below now. I do get the muscle memory thing and how difficult it must be for him to change at this age but what happens if gets another red for the same issue in September or October?

BeardySi

FACECUTTR wrote: »

So that's tonight's game and the first 3 competitive games of the new season I take it ?
I honestly was expecting 8 weeks at least. He should be just tackling at waist level and below now. I do get the muscle memory thing and how difficult it must be for him to change at this age but what happens if gets another red for the same issue in September or October?

Then I suspect they'll have to get a bigger Eddie the Eagle costume cos that'll be the end of this season....

FACECUTTR

BeardySi wrote: »

Then I suspect they'll have to get a bigger Eddie the Eagle costume cos that'll be the end of this season....

Brilliant

Utopia Parkway

testtech05 wrote: »

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/news/abraham-papalii-disciplinary-decision

Had expected worse tbh

Thought he would get 6 to 8 weeks. Only 4 is a result for him. Needless to say he can't afford any more red cards.

Zzippy

"Full mitigation but you've two recent red cards for the same thing so we'll have to knock a week off that. Hope you understand."

"Ehh, yeah, sound! No no, you finish those biscuits, I'm good!"

Lucky boy

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/ExaminerSport/status/1400809577109540871?s=19

RonnieL

I'm delighted for him personally that he got off fairly lightly, and I think it's sensible. If a player is getting sent off repeatedly for malicious/grossly negligent behavior, then I understand the steep ramping up of ban durations, but for the majority of the high tackle reds that we've been seeing this season, I'd argue there should be a more gradual increase. Banning him for 10 weeks for a tackle that could be best described as clumsy would be crazy in my opinion, especially when there was no injury to the opposing player.

Fingers crossed he uses the time off well, and we see a big improvement when he returns. I'd prefer to see him pulling out of tackles altogether rather than taking on 50/50's when he does come back - and hopefully the negative attention on him will wane as next season progresses.

Last game of the season tonight. A dead rubber for us but I'd still love to be heading into town in a couple of hours and grabbing a quick pint in the huntsman before heading up to the ground. Fingers crossed for a positive performance and a win - like a golfer getting a birdie on the last after a mixed round, it'll just make everyone feel better going into the break.

Former Former Former

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Thought he would get 6 to 8 weeks. Only 4 is a result for him. Needless to say he can't afford any more red cards.

It appears that he can :pac:

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/rugby_ap/status/1400821055078477827?s=19

realhorrorshow

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rugby_ap/status/1400821055078477827?s=19

There can't be any truth to that, surely. A centre is nearly the last thing we need.

FACECUTTR

realhorrorshow wrote: »

There can't be any truth to that, surely. A centre is nearly the last thing we need.

I completely agree unless there's something with one of the already contracted players.
If they got James Cronin signed to cover Buckley it would make more sense

connachta

FACECUTTR wrote: »

I completely agree unless there's something with one of the already contracted players.
If they got James Cronin signed to cover Buckley it would make more sense

Who tells you he's out for more than 4 months?
ACL it's confirmed?