2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

ionapaul

ionapaul wrote: »

I'm not sure you succeeded in making a complex situation easy to understand!

We are in situation which world never was before.
And everything what was do job before not work anymore.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

If somebody did not understand what is going on I will try explain simple words
The mister X felt down from stairs and went to coma
The mister X was very big businessman and he paid wages to millions people
At the moment the company of mister X continue pay wages
But there is questions for how long management will continue pay wages,will mister X will wake up from coma and will be mister X same as he was before
Too many unknown and none known
At the moment if you still getting wages there is the best time buy property because if mister X will wake up there is same chance not get them as get them same as still have job to pay mortgage or get the mortgage
But one day to reduce mortgage rate to move builders forward mister X could decide take houses of those who will not pay mortgage
Nobody except God know what will going on.

This still isn't coherent. Please don't try "explain" any further.

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

This still isn't coherent. Please don't try "explain" any further.

Please name me 3 economists which you follow everyday.Thank you

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Please name me 3 economists which you follow everyday.Thank you

Do not reply to moderation. That also means - do not reply to this post either

L1011

thefridge2006 wrote: »

AMEN... Think he got threatened with a forum ban recently for something recently too?

Do not discuss moderation on-thread in any way, shape or form

The quality of posting in the past few pages here has been abysmal almost all-round. If it doesn't improve I will need to lock the thread for cleanup and sanctions

thefridge2006

Deleted User wrote: »

The most common problem that developer can buy journalist which will tell what developer want
The other problem the businessman could legally buy politician trough the lobby
The government will use media spreading news trying move economy forward and win second election
Guys,I dont know what you believe but for me all mess about the property in media at the moment remind group of people who try restart economy from first gear and get same profit as on 5th gear in 2019

You know we're in trouble when 25 new jobs and 50 new jobs are making the big news stories on the two major news papers in the last few days

Aldi to create 25 new jobs with new store in Co Cavan - the times
SL Controls will generate 50 jobs - indo

Pelezico

thefridge2006 wrote: »

You know we're in trouble when 25 new jobs and 50 new jobs are making the big news stories on the two major news papers in the last few days

Aldi to create 25 new jobs with new store in Co Cavan - the times
SL Controls will generate 50 jobs - indo

The biggest news was that scam pulled by the Davys 16. Those guys hit very greedy.

And the German Invsstment fund which burned lot of Irish hoping to make some money in renovations in Germany.

thefridge2006

I find it very ironic that Cyrus would give someone stick for being a cheerleader

L1011

thefridge2006 wrote: »

I find it very ironic that Cyrus would give someone stick for being a cheerleader

Attack the post and not the poster.

If there's no improvement in posting quality - practically every post is off-topic, actionable or both currently - the thread will be closed temporarily

TheSheriff

jill_valentine wrote: »

In the interest of a change of topic then, a hypothetical -

Let's say for the sake of argument WFH or partial WFH becomes an established, totally normal element of the Irish working economy. Outside of Dublin, what towns would be most likely to benefit from the more mobile workforce and see a corresponding increase in property value? Would commuter/dormer areas suffer without their location offering the same draw anymore?

I would say ANY Dublin suburb/commuter town which is on the train line/easy commute had upside potential.

For example, this house in Kildare (no idea of house prices in this part of Kildare), but its currently bidding at >50k over asking.

https://homebid.ie/searchproperties/7-boycetown-court

Cyrus

thefridge2006 wrote: »

I find it very ironic that Cyrus would give someone stick for being a cheerleader

Can you give a little context here ? What have I been cheerleading ?

HansKroenke

PropQueries wrote: »

Just looking at the share prices of the companies with most (all?) exposure to the Irish property market:

Cairn Homes: Today = €1.09 vs Jan 2018 = €2.00

Glenveagh: Today = €0.90 vs Jan 2018 = €1.26

Irish Reit: Today = €1.57 vs Dec. 2019 = €1.83

Hibernian Reit: Today = €1.15 vs May 2018 = €1.57

While Hibernian Reit (primarily office based investments) can be explained, why have the other three (primarily residential investments and primarily invested in the Greater Dublin region) moved in the opposite direction to what is both the public's perception and what the most recent data appears to show in relation to the movement of property prices in the Irish residential market?

Genuinely not a loaded question. Seems like one of the buys of the decade if someone is on the bullish side IMO

Even if someone believes the current low prices are down to the fact that share prices move according to international sentiment, they really should appear like a buy if someone believes that the Irish property market can indeed only go one way, rent or selling wise, going forward IMO

It's not easy to explain what's happening in equity markets with rational arguments. When you have central banks buying bonds in order to keep yields low, this is preventing equities from correcting themselves. However, central banks don't want to take their foot off the gas to let asset prices correct so who knows what is going to happen. What is happening in equity markets is that they have decoupled from the economy in which the companies operate. As such, I wouldn't read too much into the drops as explaining the drops in share prices with rational arguments like the property market has peaked or that Euro equities in general are falling due to the vaccine delays across the continent while the US economy is going to roar ahead in a few weeks, need to be couched in the lack of a free market in which those equities are trading.

Mic 1972

DataDude wrote: »

We have a dedicated office that calculates house price inflation. Dublin house prices are down since October 2018 in both nominal and real terms. That is a fact. That is not my opinion.

Picking a clearly inferior dataset to try and contradict the official data is more disingenuous that anything you have accused props of before. In fact he has had comments moderated for less ‘obviously false’ statements.

Not sure why you keep bringing up props if you have an issue with my posts

mcsean2163

HansKroenke wrote: »

It's not easy to explain what's happening in equity markets with rational arguments. When you have central banks buying bonds in order to keep yields low, this is preventing equities from correcting themselves. However, central banks don't want to take their foot off the gas to let asset prices correct so who knows what is going to happen. What is happening in equity markets is that they have decoupled from the economy in which the companies operate. As such, I wouldn't read too much into the drops as explaining the drops in share prices with rational arguments like the property market has peaked or that Euro equities in general are falling due to the vaccine delays across the continent while the US economy is going to roar ahead in a few weeks, need to be couched in the lack of a free market in which those equities are trading.

Nope, equities are generally inflated as deposit rates are negative.

There are empty apartments all over Dublin. Emigration figures are unknown.

I'd say uncertainty is high, there could be a massive crash or a big recovery when covid19 resumes.

Based on those figures, market is hesitant but not yet terrified.

bellylint

mcsean2163 wrote: »

There are empty apartments all over Dublin. Emigration figures are unknown.

just interested, where do you base/get that from? Would like to look into it more myself.

Hubertj

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/how-to-build-the-15-minute-city-1.4508694

Not sure if anyone posted this already but an interesting read. Author doesn’t think very high rise is required for the city. It makes some very good points on how the city could be better developed. I always thought that densification was the only way to go but doesn’t appear to be

Villa05

<SNIP>

PropQueries

There's a good editorial in the Sunday Times today:

"Ireland's mountain of national debt can’t be overlooked — it must be scaled. Ireland’s national debt will be the highest in Europe per head of population by the end of the year. This is according to the latest figures from the European Commission, which calculates that by the end of 2021 we will owe €241.6 billion. That’s up 10% on last year, and equivalent to more than €48,000 owed by every man, woman and child in the country, to use that old-fashioned metric. The debt mountain will grow even higher in 2022, it has been forecast."

However, the more interesting solution they suggest for paying down this debt is:

"The property tax can, which has been repeatedly kicked down the road, has to be prised open."

This makes sense as I don't think income taxes can rise much further and the ever increasing carbon taxes are already baked into the government revenue forecasts out until 2030. There can't be really any savings from social welfare either due to the high cost of living in this country e.g. primarily rents.

Another possible consequence of ever higher property taxes that may impact property valuations both today and going forward is, in my opinion, will mortgage lenders start to include future expected significant increases in both property taxes and carbon taxes into their loan to income limits going forward? Especially as these are well flagged or at least expected by the public going forward IMO

Link to editorial in the Sunday Times here: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/editorial-ireland-s-mountain-of-national-debt-cant-be-overlooked-it-must-be-scaled-pdjtprd9f

Villa05

PropQueries wrote:

"Ireland's mountain of national debt can’t be overlooked — it must be scaled. Ireland’s national debt will be the highest in Europe per head of population by the end of the year. This is according to the latest figures from the European Commission, which calculates that by the end of 2021 we will owe €241.6 billion. That’s up 10% on last year, and equivalent to more than €48,000 owed by every man, woman and child in the country, to use that old-fashioned metric. The debt mountain will grow even higher in 2022, it has been forecast."

It's the elephant in the roomwhen you add the projected move from:
5 workers for every 1 pensioner
To
2 workers for every 1 pensioner

Imagine what that will do to welfare and health budgets plus a policy of long term leasing of social housing

It would be advisable to prepare for national bankruptcy in the lifetime of your new mortgage

The_Conductor

We need a separate property tax- ontop of a residents tax- the residents tax to pay for all local authority expenditure- the property tax to fund our national debt.

Vis-a-vis our national debt- even in this era of ultra low interest rates, we still paid almost 8 billion in interest payments on our national debt in 2020. People do not seem to have any cognisance of this- the average person walking down the street refuses on a point of principle to look at the bigger picture, and only sees whats in it for them.

The average person- has gotten it in their noggin, that printing money is both viable and indeed, preferable, to anyone paying down debt. This story/myth has been peddled by various parts of the political spectrum and the media- and by god they are going to howl when the day of reckoning comes.

I personally think that a reasonable property tax- based on a regularly reappraised value of the unit (say 1.5% of the value for example) is fair and reasonable- providing it is accompanied by a fair and reasonable residential tax- which would be completely ringfenced by local authority jurisdictions- so Dara in his McMansion in Leitrim- gets off lightly on the property tax- but pays the true cost of providing services, facilities and amenities to their McMansion in the arse end of nowhere. Meanwhile Mary and Mark in Dublin- get hit badly on the property tax- but get a break on their residential tax.

The first time round- there was no appetite to look outside the box on the 'property tax' and include an element of dwelling size in the calculation- when it was to pay for local authorities. Now we have an opportunity to revisit that travesty.

The harder thing of all- will be selling this to the Irish who have a fixation with owning property. Well, owning property- is going to be more expensive in future, come what may..........

A 5k per annum property tax charge- might reduce property prices by 10-15%? I don't necessarily think this would be a bad thing.

Let Revenue purloin all income- in a similar manner to PAYE, but to include people outside of the PAYE net- they are quite remarkably good at it after all.

So a whole new tax- paid by property residents- alongside a fair and reasonable property tax paid by property owners- to reflect both property prices, and also the actual costs of servicing local authority - to pay back a chunk of national debt (or to at least pay the interest on it).

The other mistruth being peddled- is how we can let inflation diminish the debt- well, in an era of low inflation- or negative inflation- that just doesn't happen. Did the EU manage to breach a 2% inflation level at any stage in the last 15 years?

We are so incredibly screwed.

jill_valentine

Villa05 wrote: »

It's the elephant in the roomwhen you add the projected move from:
5 workers for every 1 pensioner
To
2 workers for every 1 pensioner

Imagine what that will do to welfare and health budgets plus a policy of long term leasing of social housing

It would be advisable to prepare for national bankruptcy in the lifetime of your new mortgage

And what happens when many, if not most, of those pensioners are also still having to pay rent?

hometruths

bellylint wrote: »

just interested, where do you base/get that from? Would like to look into it more myself.

There is lots of discussion on it from both sides of the fence in this thread: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058118775

It's fascinating, but be warned, it's a rabbit hole!

cnocbui

The_Conductor wrote: »

We need a separate property tax- ontop of a residents tax- the residents tax to pay for all local authority expenditure- the property tax to fund our national debt.

...

The average person- has gotten it in their noggin, that printing money is both viable and indeed, preferable, to anyone paying down debt. This story/myth has been peddled by various parts of the political spectrum and the media- and by god they are going to howl when the day of reckoning comes.

I personally think that a reasonable property tax- based on a regularly reappraised value of the unit (say 1.5% of the value for example) is fair and reasonable...

The Irish solution to all problems - more tax.

My solution is less tax, increasing the available consumption capability of people so they can better afford housing and consumption, leading to increased economic activity.

The potential buyer of one of my properties recently said the bank had rejected her first loan application but her second has the verbal nod, so my dream of getting the feck out of this insane country is looking slightly more achievable. Happy daya.

Zenify

cnocbui wrote: »

my dream of getting the feck out of this insane country is looking slightly more achievable. Happy daya.

Where to?

cnocbui

Zenify wrote: »

Where to?

New Zealand. The drawbridge is up, but as I have two properties to offload and work to do to get planning compliant on one, hopefully by the time I get to a property free state, the road will be open.

Villa05

jill_valentine wrote:

And what happens when many, if not most, of those pensioners are also still having to pay rent?

David McWilliams has a saying that we are 3 big decisions away from greatness

I would argue the opposite is also the case. Failure to deal with housing affordability is 1.
Implementing polices that make it worse is another and these are both choices that are still available to us.

Housing could easily be a revenue generator for the state, we have chosen to make it a major drag

Some movements on rental market.
You could see HAP welcome when before nobody did not want it.

Hubertj

https://m.independent.ie/news/private-62-acre-island-with-a-microclimate-off-the-coast-of-west-cork-goes-under-the-hammer-40189426.html

What sort of “microclimate” do you get off the coast of cork?

cnocbui

Hubertj wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/news/private-62-acre-island-with-a-microclimate-off-the-coast-of-west-cork-goes-under-the-hammer-40189426.html

What sort of “microclimate” do you get off the coast of cork?

Snap, I thought exactly the same thing - with the winds off the Irish coast, that would be my nomination for Most Creative Bullsh​it in a Property Spiel award.

Hubertj

cnocbui wrote: »

Snap, I thought exactly the same thing - with the winds off the Irish coast, that would be my nomination for Most Creative Bullsh​it in a Property Spiel award.

To be fair it doesn’t really say that it’s better, or worse, than the mainland climate!

The_Conductor

Hubertj wrote: »

To be fair it doesn’t really say that it’s better, or worse, than the mainland climate!

I'd suggest extra rain days, more storms and general misery.

The_Conductor

cnocbui wrote: »

The Irish solution to all problems - more tax.

My solution is less tax, increasing the available consumption capability of people so they can better afford housing and consumption, leading to increased economic activity.

The potential buyer of one of my properties recently said the bank had rejected her first loan application but her second has the verbal nod, so my dream of getting the feck out of this insane country is looking slightly more achievable. Happy daya.

The problem is we are going to have to both pay more tax, and spend less- whether we like it or not. We will have the highest debt per capita in the EU in 2021 (at approx. 48,200 per head of population)- and our national debt is on a trajectory to continue increasing for the next 4-5 years.

We need to pull the brakes on spending- and simultaneously increase taxation.

We have an illusion of wealth in Ireland- an illusion that does not really exist, and its an illusion that we have been allowed perpetuate for the past number of years, as it suited not to call a halt to the party.

Ireland is an incredibly expensive little country- and we have been exceptionally generous to those in society who have difficulty in living the lifestyle they'd like here. All of this house of cards is going to tumble.

PropQueries

The_Conductor wrote: »

The problem is we are going to have to both pay more tax, and spend less- whether we like it or not. We will have the highest debt per capita in the EU in 2021 (at approx. 48,200 per head of population)- and our national debt is on a trajectory to continue increasing for the next 4-5 years.

We need to pull the brakes on spending- and simultaneously increase taxation.

We have an illusion of wealth in Ireland- an illusion that does not really exist, and its an illusion that we have been allowed perpetuate for the past number of years, as it suited not to call a halt to the party.

Ireland is an incredibly expensive little country- and we have been exceptionally generous to those in society who have difficulty in living the lifestyle they'd like here. All of this house of cards is going to tumble.

I just looked up Jobseeker's Benefit in 2010 and today. It was €196 in 2010 and it's €203 today.

Wouldn't that mean that the living standards of the unemployed have fallen significantly in real terms over the past ten years, which contradicts the narrative from some quarters that they're creaming it?

Given that social welfare (as the layman understands it) comprises a very small percentage of the budget, I just don't see any real savings to made there IMO

I also don't see how property taxes can be increased to such a level to make any difference.

They did come after our pensions last time. Does anyone have any ideas on how they will come after our savings which they appear to be keeping too close an eye on recently IMO

ExMachina1000

PropQueries wrote: »

I just looked up Jobseeker's Benefit in 2010 and today. It was €196 in 2010 and it's €203 today.

Wouldn't that mean that the living standards of the unemployed have fallen significantly in real terms over the past ten years, which contradicts the narrative from some quarters that they're creaming it?

Given that social welfare (as the layman understands it) comprises a very small percentage of the budget, I just don't see any real savings to made there IMO

I also don't see how property taxes can be increased to such a level to make any difference.

They did come after our pensions last time. Does anyone have any ideas on how they will come after our savings which they appear to be keeping too close an eye on recently IMO

Up to 1 million people don't pay income taxes in this country. The net needs to be widened

Villa05

ExMachina1000 wrote:

Up to 1 million people don't pay income taxes in this country. The net needs to be widened

Our housing policy has closed that particular door. A large portion of these people will be renting, there will be little scope to extract any more blood from that stone

PropQueries

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Up to 1 million people don't pay income taxes in this country. The net needs to be widened

Unfortunately that can't work due to the rapid rise in the cost of living for the lower income groups (e.g. rent etc.) over the past number of years. Contrary to the narrative, they really have nothing left to hand over in most cases.

All that would happen would be that the state would have to supplement their wages IMO

Even Simon Coveney stated a few months ago that "there could be as many people in his department on the Working Family Payment as in the whole of the Defence Forces."

They really are going to have to think outside the box on this one and the only source I see are our savings.

Link to Irish Independent article here: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/coveney-many-civil-servants-in-my-department-are-on-family-income-top-up-like-members-of-defence-forces-39601376.html

Hubertj

The_Conductor wrote: »

The problem is we are going to have to both pay more tax, and spend less- whether we like it or not. We will have the highest debt per capita in the EU in 2021 (at approx. 48,200 per head of population)- and our national debt is on a trajectory to continue increasing for the next 4-5 years.

We need to pull the brakes on spending- and simultaneously increase taxation.

We have an illusion of wealth in Ireland- an illusion that does not really exist, and its an illusion that we have been allowed perpetuate for the past number of years, as it suited not to call a halt to the party.

Ireland is an incredibly expensive little country- and we have been exceptionally generous to those in society who have difficulty in living the lifestyle they'd like here. All of this house of cards is going to tumble.

They can start with the public sector. There are billions to be saved there. The 2% pay increase the other week was insulting to the country given the current circumstances. We have thousands too many admin staff and not enough front line workers - doctors, nurses, law enforcement etc. Public services need to clean up their own act while reforming the taxation system - broadening it etc.

back to the property market and the sinnn Fein housing policy for affordable housing. Does the purchaser get free hold or lease hold of the property? Are there conditions attached to purchasing your property for €240k or whatever number it is.

cnocbui

The_Conductor wrote: »

The problem is we are going to have to both pay more tax, and spend less- whether we like it or not. We will have the highest debt per capita in the EU in 2021 (at approx. 48,200 per head of population)- and our national debt is on a trajectory to continue increasing for the next 4-5 years.

We need to pull the brakes on spending- and simultaneously increase taxation.

We have an illusion of wealth in Ireland- an illusion that does not really exist, and its an illusion that we have been allowed perpetuate for the past number of years, as it suited not to call a halt to the party.

Ireland is an incredibly expensive little country- and we have been exceptionally generous to those in society who have difficulty in living the lifestyle they'd like here. All of this house of cards is going to tumble.

Agree with the gist, but I diagree with the idea I am going to have to pay for it. Not my debt, I'm off, and thanks for all the fish.

I havve to laugh at the tax more angle. We have the second highest CGT, One of the highest VAT rates. The highest inheritance tax rates. We have hidden sneaky stuff like levies on every form of insurance, we have the second most expensive car operating costs in the EU, which is mostly tax induced, including probably the most egregious gouge of all, VRT. And so it goes. What we never see, and which is the thing most needed, is any mention of reducing government expenditure, together with increased taxation of large companies. I know that's probably the biggest holy cow in the country, after the Catholic pedophilery, but it's why personal taxation has to be so high.

Irish governments are incapable of hard decisions; like cutting public service benefits and numbers; reposessing houses from defaulters; becoming less reliant on being a tax haven for US multinationals; looking at the cost of CO2 reduction targets and just saying nope; widening the tax base; fixing the legal system to make it cheaper for everyone, particularly the government itself.

I ran the numbers of your batshi​t crazy property tax proposal for my circumstances. I would be left with €4 K a year for 3 people to live on and my tax burden would be 85.3 % of my income.

But, hey, knock yourself out trying to squeeze more out of the stone (broke) middle incomers - I'll send you a post card.

Yurt2

Hubertj wrote: »

They can start with the public sector. There are billions to be saved there. The 2% pay increase the other week was insulting to the country given the current circumstances. We have thousands too many admin staff and not enough front line workers - doctors, nurses, law enforcement etc. Public services need to clean up their own act while reforming the taxation system - broadening it etc.

back to the property market and the sinnn Fein housing policy for affordable housing. Does the purchaser get free hold or lease hold of the property? Are there conditions attached to purchasing your property for €240k or whatever number it is.

Had a look there, there are clawback provisions if the house is sold withing a certain time period, usually 10-20 years (nothing unusual in that, standard terms for a publicly built unit).

The_Conductor

Hubertj wrote: »

They can start with the public sector. There are billions to be saved there. The 2% pay increase the other week was insulting to the country given the current circumstances. We have thousands too many admin staff and not enough front line workers - doctors, nurses, law enforcement etc. Public services need to clean up their own act while reforming the taxation system - broadening it etc.

Parts of the public sector are already quite slim in comparison to other OECD countries. Also- the 2% payrise is for a 2 year period to February 2023- during which time the rate of inflation is predicted to be 2.7% see here In light of the fact that the payrise is below the predicted rate of inflation- it is a cut in real terms.

Yes- there are too many admin staff- or even technical or medical staff in admin roles- we do need a seachange. We were promised a seachange in the HSE- when the old healthboards were abolished- however, instead of the predicted savings on admin and overheads- instead we ended up with bloat.

No politicians have the gonads to tackle this- indeed, some politicians actively defend it.

Hubertj wrote: »

back to the property market and the sinnn Fein housing policy for affordable housing. Does the purchaser get free hold or lease hold of the property? Are there conditions attached to purchasing your property for €240k or whatever number it is.

Fine Gael came out swinging on Twitter during the week- on the premise that Fine Gael was helping people to own houses, while Sinn Féin was only leasing houses to them. Either way- its nonsense- its largess from a government who don't have two brass farthings to rub against one another- trying to outdo each other and see who can promise the most ridiculous goodies to prospective voters.

People have no cognisance of just how much trouble this county is in- and how we are not going to be given the latitude that many politicians imagine they will have if/when they are voted in on promises of bestowing goodies on their constituents.

We are our own worst enemies.

cnocbui

The PS should not get a pay rise based in inflation! It should, at the extreme, only be based on the actual wage inflation of the non-PS sector. It's beyond rubbery to base real world benefits on future predictions. Wait for the real figures.

Hubertj

The_Conductor wrote: »

Parts of the public sector are already quite slim in comparison to other OECD countries. Also- the 2% payrise is for a 2 year period to February 2023- during which time the rate of inflation is predicted to be 2.7% see here In light of the fact that the payrise is below the predicted rate of inflation- it is a cut in real terms.

Yes- there are too many admin staff- or even technical or medical staff in admin roles- we do need a seachange. We were promised a seachange in the HSE- when the old healthboards were abolished- however, instead of the predicted savings on admin and overheads- instead we ended up with bloat.

No politicians have the gonads to tackle this- indeed, some politicians actively defend it.





Fine Gael came out swinging on Twitter during the week- on the premise that Fine Gael was helping people to own houses, while Sinn Féin was only leasing houses to them. Either way- its nonsense- its largess from a government who don't have two brass farthings to rub against one another- trying to outdo each other and see who can promise the most ridiculous goodies to prospective voters.

People have no cognisance of just how much trouble this county is in- and how we are not going to be given the latitude that many politicians imagine they will have if/when they are voted in on promises of bestowing goodies on their constituents.

We are our own worst enemies.

Too many vested interests in the public sector. No political party will take on and break the control unions have over public services.

Regarding the promises of parties in relation to housing, isn’t populism a wonderful thing.

hometruths

Hubertj wrote: »

back to the property market and the sinnn Fein housing policy for affordable housing. Does the purchaser get free hold or lease hold of the property? Are there conditions attached to purchasing your property for €240k or whatever number it is.

The Sinn Fein policy is actually a pretty good one to be fair. There are two conditions attached:

The property can never be rented out on the private rented market, and it can never be sold on the open market at an unaffordable price. If the owner wants to sell the home, it must be sold back into the affordable housing scheme to another affordable purchaser at the future affordable housing price.

So basically if affordability is your biggest concern, buy a house in this scheme. Happy days.

If investment is more of a factor and you're looking for income or capital gains, then sorry this is not for you. Fair enough.

FGs attacks on it shows their mindset that they see rising property prices as the only game in town and compounding the current problems.

SFs policy has the wisdom of taking a longer term view by trying to create a subsector in the market of affordable properties that will be available for people facing the same problem in 5, 10 or 15 years time.

This is an altogether better approach.

Hubertj

schmittel wrote: »

The Sinn Fein policy is actually a pretty good one to be fair. There are two conditions attached:



So basically if affordability is your biggest concern, buy a house in this scheme. Happy days.

If investment is more of a factor and you're looking for income or capital gains, then sorry this is not for you. Fair enough.

FGs attacks on it shows their mindset that they see rising property prices as the only game in town and compounding the current problems.

SFs policy has the wisdom of taking a longer term view by trying to create a subsector in the market of affordable properties that will be available for people facing the same problem in 5, 10 or 15 years time.

This is an altogether better approach.

How can you sell something at an unaffordable price? If someone can afford to buy something that makes it affordable.

So it is really redefining the concept of home ownership in that you don’t really own it.

Yurt2

Hubertj wrote: »

How can you sell something at an unaffordable price? If someone can afford to buy something that makes it affordable.

So it is really redefining the concept of home ownership in that you don’t really own it.

Super-yachts are affordable then by your definition. Because somebody's buying them.


Then again, nobody needs a super-yacht, but everybody needs a stable roof over their head.


This is the craic when talking about housing - people coming out with mad stuff to justify a mad property market.

hometruths

Hubertj wrote: »

How can you sell something at an unaffordable price? If someone can afford to buy something that makes it affordable.

So it is really redefining the concept of home ownership in that you don’t really own it.

That's exactly what makes it a better scheme in the context of solving the affordability problem.

You can do everything you want with it except rent it out or sell it on the open market. The only thing you are giving up is potential rental income or market derived capital gains.

Sure that's unattractive for those people who can afford houses at current market rates, but for those that cannot it is a much better idea than taking on a bigger chunk of unaffordable debt.

Villa05

schmittel wrote:

SFs policy has the wisdom of taking a longer term view by trying to create a subsector in the market of affordable properties that will be available for people facing the same problem in 5, 10 or 15 years time.

You could easily implement proper market rules in the private sector, like if your not paying for it you loose the asset

Timing belt

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd suggest extra rain days, more storms and general misery.

There are gardens where tropical plants grow down west cork that won’t grow anywhere else in Ireland.. I think it has something to do with Gulf Stream and temp always staying high because of it.

https://curiousireland.ie/garinish-island-glengarriff-co-cork/

Mad_maxx

cnocbui wrote: »

New Zealand. The drawbridge is up, but as I have two properties to offload and work to do to get planning compliant on one, hopefully by the time I get to a property free state, the road will be open.

why New Zealand may i ask ?

they do have a much more pro workers taxation code , is it purely down to this ?

Timing belt

schmittel wrote: »

The Sinn Fein policy is actually a pretty good one to be fair. There are two conditions attached:



So basically if affordability is your biggest concern, buy a house in this scheme. Happy days.

If investment is more of a factor and you're looking for income or capital gains, then sorry this is not for you. Fair enough.

FGs attacks on it shows their mindset that they see rising property prices as the only game in town and compounding the current problems.

SFs policy has the wisdom of taking a longer term view by trying to create a subsector in the market of affordable properties that will be available for people facing the same problem in 5, 10 or 15 years time.

This is an altogether better approach.

How does this policy differ from the building of large scale council estates that the populist don’t want anymore as they say they only lead to ghettos. The building of large scale council estates solved previous housing crises but it is no longer an option or is it under SF policy just with a bit of glitter to make it more attractive.