2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

TobyHolmes

fliball123 wrote: »

People make a decision to get a mortgage for a number of reasons. Such as they no longer want to live with mam and dad, they have a kid on the way and need the space, the job is a 2 hour commute, kids need to be near to schools etc..these factors will always trump the market forces.

Really so Ireland is the most expensive place to buy a house in the world is that what your saying???

https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings.jsp

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/irish-property-price-growth-lags-international-trends-1.4513727#:~:text=Republic%20ranks%2048th%20out%20off,by%20Turkey%20and%20New%20Zealand&text=Irish%20property%20price%20growth%20lagged,according%20to%20a%20new%20report.


https://www.comparethemarket.com.au/home-contents-insurance/global-cost-of-property/

first link relates only to city by city analysis (certainly more cities in the world than what they have listed)
second link refers to GROWTH not the starting point
third link says USA, Russia and Turkey are the most affordable countries in the world.


listen statistics can tell you whatever you want. its experience that offers the truth.

fliball123

TobyHolmes wrote: »

first link relates only to city by city analysis (certainly more cities in the world than what they have listed)
second link refers to GROWTH not the starting point
third link says USA, Russia and Turkey are the most affordable counties in the world.


listen statistics can tell you whatever you want. its experience that offers the truth.

Yeah and if you have a play around with the metrics on the third link it give a sq meter average price per country Ireland is 23rd no where near what your trying to spin. As for the first link Dublin is by far the most expensive city/county in Ireland and this is what is being compared with other cities around the world it would work out even cheaper if a different city in Ireland was used? So can you just agree that your wrong that Ireland is the most expensive country to buy a property in the world and just leave it at that. If you have you any proof Ireland is the most expensive country to buy property in the world could you show it here if you do I will gladly apologise

TobyHolmes

fliball123 wrote: »

Yeah and if you have a play around with the metrics on the third it give a sq meter average per country Ireland is 23rd

ok cool.

TobyHolmes

fliball123 wrote: »

Yeah and if you have a play around with the metrics on the third link it give a sq meter average price per country Ireland is 23rd no where near what your trying to spin. As for the first link Dublin is by far the most expensive city/county in Ireland and this is what is being compared with other cities around the world it would work out even cheaper if a different city was used? So can you just agree that your wrong that Ireland is the most expensive country to buy a property in the world and just leave it at that

you edited your post. but i never said ireland was the most expensive country i said there were cheaper ones than ireland.


its 27th out of 39 countries - its certainly not an impressive figure.


but ok lets move on.....

fliball123

TobyHolmes wrote: »

you think houses in other countries are more expensive than ireland?
really?
i beg to differ.

my point was as i said we should be encouraged to save for a house not a deposit on a house.
and yes its not easy but its certainly not impossible.
but people are encouraged by society to be in debt so that we stay part of the system.
and whichever way you want to spin in - a mortgage is a debt.

TobyHolmes wrote: »

you edited your post. but i never said ireland was the most expensive country i said there were cheaper ones than ireland.


its 27th out of 39 countries - its certainly not an impressive figure.


but ok lets move on.....

Well just before you move on you did say
you think houses in other countries are more expensive than ireland?
really?
i beg to differ.

so that means you thought that Ireland is the most expensive and it isnt

PropQueries

jill_valentine wrote: »

It's outpacing it comfortably, still. My rent is nearly double what I'd have been paying for a mortgage for some of the apartments I had been working towards before Covidmageddon, and I live in a ****hole. They aren't joking when they call it a trap.

I'm luckier than many, maybe most, in that my parents can help me out deposit wise a bit, but the salary cap is there on the other end too, in case anyone manages to make any headway.

I wouldn't worry too much IMO

Many state officials from the Central Bank to the Tanaiste to the Minister of Finance have been signaling tax increases. This must be in conjunction with expenditure cuts. Health and social welfare can't endure much cutbacks. The only current big expenditure is the housing budget from buying new builds to long-term lease agreements to HAP.

Once they cut back, one of the biggest drivers of the current house price and rent increases in the market will be gone.

That's when we will see big drops in both rents and house prices IMO

When will it happen is anyone's guess. My guess? c. July 2021.

TobyHolmes

fliball123 wrote: »

Well just before you move on you did say
you think houses in other countries are more expensive than ireland?
really?
i beg to differ.

so that means you thought that Ireland is the most expensive and it isnt

Ok dude LOL

Mad_maxx

cgcsb wrote: »

Number of properties asking for less than €200k on daft seems to have increased again. Fixer uppers are looking like particularly good value at the moment.

too bad tradesmen cant be gotten for love nor money :mad:

Hubertj

DataDude wrote: »

Don't hate the extension, don't love it - either way, a house of 320m2 on Woodbine road, newly renovated. That's going closer to €2m than €1.5m surely?

Know this is much more impressive from the outside, but given what it would cost to fix up etc. and it'd still be only 2/3rds the size. Makes the other one look like an absolute steal.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/casa-maria-blackrock-co-dublin/4490164

Totally agree. Extension is grand. And when you compare the 2 I think the booterstown propert represents better value. Think the price for black rock sounds high, especially when you tack on the cost of modernisation.

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

Back to the houses, cant say im a fan of the extension here

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/2-woodbine-park-booterstown-dublin/4490549

The two different types of wood floor would drive me demented

Pelezico

PropQueries wrote: »

I wouldn't worry too much IMO

Many state officials from the Central Bank to the Tanaiste to the Minister of Finance have been signaling tax increases. This must be in conjunction with expenditure cuts. Health and social welfare can't endure much cutbacks. The only current big expenditure is the housing budget from buying new builds to long-term lease agreements to HAP.

Once they cut back, one of the biggest drivers of the current house price and rent increases in the market will be gone.

That's when we will see big drops in both rents and house prices IMO

When will it happen is anyone's guess. My guess? c. July 2021.

For once I think McWilliams is right. Foolish to buy property now in a highly dysfunctional market.

When government takes away pup the pain will begin.

handlemaster

Pelezico wrote: »

For once I think McWilliams is right. Foolish to buy property now in a highly dysfunctional market.

When government takes away pup the pain will begin.

Central banks will pump money until inflation hits 2% asset classes will rise for a while yet.

Yurt2

cnocbui wrote: »

I had a 60% deposit for my first house and had the mortgage paid off in about a year with two incomes working on it.

My current house I bought shortly before McBoofhead was saying don't buy. Paid it off some years ago and now I have an asset I can sell to help finance my move to an actullay hot market instead of this slightly warm one.

I don't know what decade it was that you had a 60% deposit and the stroke of good fortune to pay of your first mortgage in a year, but it's not the 2020s. Lets call that what it is: a story from a different Ireland that doesn't apply in 2021 to first time buyers of any stripe.

cnocbui

Yurt! wrote: »

I don't know what decade it was that you had a 60% deposit and the stroke of good fortune to pay of your first mortgage in a year, but it's not the 2020s. Lets call that what it is: a story from a different Ireland that doesn't apply in 2021 to first time buyers of any stripe.

It wasn't in Ireland and of course it was a different time. However, there is another side to the tale that is appropriate and that is the expectations of FTBs in Ireland are often unrealisticaly high.

The_Conductor

handlemaster wrote: »

Central banks will pump money until inflation hits 2% asset classes will rise for a while yet.

Property, shares and bonds- are at silly prices.
People have access to more money that they know what to do with- and it costs money to park it as cash even in central banks.
We already have massive asset price inflation- completely irrational asset price inflation- and the additional liquidity is pumping up asset prices, and down bond prices, it is doing absolutely nothing for inflation- its not getting out to the open economy.

If Central banks want to manipulate the inflation rate- they need to push money out into the open economy- not towards assets like shares, bonds, property etc.

enricoh

JimmyVik wrote: »

Also councils and REITS are literally knocking on their doors and asking do they want to sell to them.
A guy from Fingal coco knocked on my friends door (a house, not even up for sale). Introduced himself and asked would he be interested in selling to the council.
He said no. But he saw him going to the next house.
I now someone working in there and I asked what the story was. I thought it might be a con man going around. They said it was legit.

Jaysus, that is nuts. Some serious government dough getting squandered at the mo. I wonder who's going to carry the can when it goes pear shaped?! Lads that get up early in the morning as leo says may get up a bit earlier!

Yurt2

cnocbui wrote: »

It wasn't in Ireland and of course it was a different time. However, there is another side to the tale that is appropriate and that is the expectations of FTBs in Ireland are often unrealisticaly high.

So it's got nothing to do with the price of turnips then.


You'll forgive FTBs for not listening to old man cnoc lecturing them on how he bought his starter home for tuppence and a gobstopper in another country in his early 20s with his true grit, indefatigability and moral courage. Meanwhile, back in 2021...

fliball123

Yurt! wrote: »

So it's got nothing to do with the price of turnips then.


You'll forgive FTBs for not listening to old man cnoc lecturing them on how he bought his starter home for tuppence and a gobstopper in another country in his early 20s with his true grit, indefatigability and moral courage. Meanwhile, back in 2021...

He is right in one aspect the current generation are one that wants it and wants it now. You only have to look at indicators like I-phone sales they want the latest and greatest and dont care about price except when they cant afford it or have to save for it. The day of buying a house and doing it up one room at a time is gone

Yurt2

fliball123 wrote: »

He is right in one aspect the current generation are one that wants it and wants it now. You only have to look at indicators like I-phone sales they want the latest and greatest and dont care about price except when they cant afford it or have to save for it. The day of buying a house and doing it up one room at a time is gone

This is an i-phones and avocado toast post. FTBs are savers, the generation in their 20/30s you're talking about are savers among the best in Europe and comparable to any generation (probably more so despite the interest rates). It's the generation before them that are PCP junkies.


Bolded: When they can, they do.

TobyHolmes

Yurt! wrote: »

This is an i-phones and avocado toast post. FTBs are savers, the generation in their 20/30s you're talking about are savers among the best in Europe and comparable to any generation (probably more so despite the interest rates). It's the generation before them that are PCP junkies.


Bolded: When they can, they do.

i think thats the point in alot of the recent posts. just save the money and wait. and then buy when the market is more rational.

and whether you think the posters arguments are turnips or avocado - they are just expressing their views from experience.

Yurt2

TobyHolmes wrote: »

i think thats the point in alot of the recent posts. just save the money and wait. and then buy when the market is more rational.

and whether you think the posters arguments are turnips or avocado - they are just expressing their views from experience.

They're free to express their views, but I'm free to say they're in a time-warp. And they sure as hell aren't on the sharp end of the market trying to start a family and secure a home.

TobyHolmes

Yurt! wrote: »

They're free to express their views, but I'm free to say they're in a time-warp. And they sure as hell aren't on the sharp end of the market trying to start a family and secure a home.

fair enough

cnocbui

Yurt! wrote: »

So it's got nothing to do with the price of turnips then.


You'll forgive FTBs for not listening to old man cnoc lecturing them on how he bought his starter home for tuppence and a gobstopper in another country in his early 20s with his true grit, indefatigability and moral courage. Meanwhile, back in 2021...

... FTBs want a new build turn-key with all the mod cons and trimmings with a high BER rating and preferably with some save the planet solar panels.

I didn't have much money in my early 20's as I was an impoverished student.

My current house is the only new house I have owned. I couldn't afford a finished product so bought something finished to only second fixings finish and then finished it off myself over time, starting in 2001.

Meanwhile in 2021, it's a great time to sell and move to another rung in the ladder.

DataDude

fliball123 wrote: »

He is right in one aspect the current generation are one that wants it and wants it now. You only have to look at indicators like I-phone sales they want the latest and greatest and dont care about price except when they cant afford it or have to save for it. The day of buying a house and doing it up one room at a time is gone

I’m pretty sure you literally can’t do this anymore? I expressed an interest in a house listed at 800k. Fixer upper. Estate agent wouldn’t engage with me until I showed proof of funds for €1.15m as they said the bank wouldn’t provide Finance unless we had enough money to restore it which they estimated to be €350k.

I’ve posted about it before, but any attempt to paint a young couple earning €35k each struggling to save up to buy a house in Dublin as ‘lazy’ and saying ‘if only they didn’t waste money on x, it’d be easy’ is quite possibly the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard.

Yurt2

cnocbui wrote: »

... FTBs want a new build turn-key with all the mod cons and trimmings with a high BER rating and preferably with some save the planet solar panels.

Meanwhile in 2021, it's a great time to sell and move to another rung in the ladder.

:rolleyes:


'nuff said

cnocbui

Yurt! wrote: »

They're free to express their views, but I'm free to say they're in a time-warp. And they sure as hell aren't on the sharp end of the market trying to start a family and secure a home.

Give it a rest, I have been on the sharp end of the market trying to start a family and get a home. You are living in la-la land if you think it's been easy at any point - woe is me, it's never, ever been this hard - you don't know what it's like, man, you had it so easy...

cnocbui

Yurt! wrote: »

:rolleyes:


'nuff said

Another rung in my context will very possibly be a trade down or sideways. You don't get much for your money in NZ. :rolleyes:

Pelezico

TobyHolmes wrote: »

Ok dude LOL

You have been educated since coming to this thread. Irish property is not among the most expensive in the world....but guess what....it feels like it.

Why would anyone buy with so little on the market? It doesn't not make sense. Also there are thousands of mortgages not being serviced at present because of covid.

Yurt2

cnocbui wrote: »

Give it a rest, I have been on the sharp end of the market trying to start a family and get a home. You are living in la-la land if you think it's been easy at any point - woe is me, it's never, ever been this hard - you don't know what it's like, man, you had it so easy...

Cnoc, you were mouthing about young people and solar panels posting about your 20th century tale where you paid off your first mortgage in a year with your 60% deposit. Bully for you and three cheers for the dumb luck being born in an era where that wasn't science fiction.

I know plenty of people across all social strata in Ireland. Precisely 0% of people are able to do that on their own steam. You need a time machine to go back and post from when that post might have made sense, the problem was the internet wasn't invented.

Villa05

MacronvFrugals wrote:

McWilliams is divisive on here but interesting nonetheless...

MacronvFrugals wrote:

"David McWilliams urges house buyers to stop searching immediately as market is at ‘peak dysfunction’"

I thought we had established that on this thread. Buyers are competing against a government using their money plus investment trusts who pay no tax on profits. Buyers are cannon fodder

There is no fair market

This is banana rebublic yet again