2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

awec

K.Hawksworth wrote: »

Yep, and Workday announced 400 last week also.

3000 in a week or so, must be a record.

JimmyVik

Where will they all live?

cnocbui

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Great jobs news today!


"Intel to create 1,600 Irish jobs under global expansion plan"


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/intel-to-create-1-600-irish-jobs-under-global-expansion-plan-1.4518396

Sounds a bit weird - the bit about over the three years to the end of 2021. I thought it was already 2021. So they have been secretly investing 2.5B a year since early 2019? And this didn't create any jobs worth mentioning, but now suddenly 1600 will be created all of a sudden? Also, the details will be available by the end of this year for something that has already happened?

Do you suppose they meant 2023?

The_Conductor

Being the last native English speaking country, with a common law legal system in Europe- is going to stand to our benefit, come what may, when it comes to choosing where to locate new employees. The other aspect is of course the manner in which companies in particular sectors tend to group together- so we have a critical mass of highly skilled workers available to suit different groups of industries.

Ireland has a lot going for it. We have many many hurdles ahead of us, mostly financial in nature- but we also have many resources, including our people, that we can uniquely draw on, to plaster over some of the more egregious cracks in our business model, which is going to be forced to change in the near future.

In 2019 the AO competition run by the Public Appointment Service for AO Finance Officer- had all participants give a 10 minute presentation on the opportunities and threats facing Ireland in the context of a global economy, with a particular focus on taxation. It is not something new and it is not something that is being ignored, rather it is an evolving situation that we are all going to have to subscribe to.

We have a lot more going for us than a lot of people may openly acknowledge- however, we also have some fairly unique threats that we are going to have to decide how we wish to mitigate.

The_Conductor

JimmyVik wrote: »

Where will they all live?

Presumably south of the M50- though a lot of them would naturally like to live in the greater Lucan/Leixlip/Maynooth/Kilcock areas.

cnocbui

awec wrote: »

Stripe announced 1000 jobs in Ireland last week too I think.

They better double down on providing social housing within Dublin before there is an influx of people who will drive up housing prices /s

Zenify

awec wrote: »

3000 in a week or so, must be a record.

our unemployment rate is also a record I'd say.

NickNickleby

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Funny that1. Two of my neighbours are sellig, one moving up market, one moving down. Both say they will rent until the find a new house.

Well, if I was considering selling, I'd probably put my house up now, while the madness exists. The cost of renting thereafter would probably be WELL offset by the current mad prices apparently being achieved.

Hopefully the madness subsides by summer. In which case, both your neighbours will benefit from a falling market (having benefitted from a mad market) - and the same will apply to those currently struggling to get a property. I really hope so.

cnocbui

The_Conductor wrote: »

Being the last native English speaking country, with a common law legal system in Europe- is going to stand to our benefit, come what may, when it comes to choosing where to locate new employees. The other aspect is of course the manner in which companies in particular sectors tend to group together- so we have a critical mass of highly skilled workers available to suit different groups of industries.

Ireland has a lot going for it. We have many many hurdles ahead of us, mostly financial in nature- but we also have many resources, including our people, that we can uniquely draw on, to plaster over some of the more egregious cracks in our business model, which is going to be forced to change in the near future.

In 2019 the AO competition run by the Public Appointment Service for AO Finance Officer- had all participants give a 10 minute presentation on the opportunities and threats facing Ireland in the context of a global economy, with a particular focus on taxation. It is not something new and it is not something that is being ignored, rather it is an evolving situation that we are all going to have to subscribe to.

We have a lot more going for us than a lot of people may openly acknowledge- however, we also have some fairly unique threats that we are going to have to decide how we wish to mitigate.

A commerce spokesman representing US companies based in Ireland has previously complained to the Irish government about the excessive costs and complexities of the Irish legal system calling them a notable disincentive, so I am not sure the legal system is exactly an attraction.

WacoKid

christin wrote: »

Interesting podcast from David McWilliams on house prices at the moment echoes what some people said on this forum already
"Current market has no value for money, very few amounts of bad property, sellers don't want to list houses as there are no physical viewings...People are panicking and current market is a rerun of 2005, 2006"
Cease and desist. Get out of the housing market right now, plus the 5 fundamental ways cities are changing on Castbox. Check out this episode! https://castbox.fm/vb/366562479

The point I took from it is that he is saying you will pay the highest price for lowest quality at present. After been looking to move I agree with this. If somebody is willing to buy understanding the current market then fine. His advice was don't buy.

K.Hawksworth

JimmyVik wrote: »

Where will they all live?

All 3 companies are known to pay well so they probably won't have too much trouble sourcing accommodation. That's assuming none of the 3,000 live here already, which a lot probably do.

Pelezico

cnocbui wrote: »

A commerce spokesman representing US companies based in Ireland has previously complained to the Irish government about the excessive costs and complexities of the Irish legal system calling them a notable disincentive, so I am not sure the legal system is exactly an attraction.

But our people are the beat educated in the world according to Irish teacherr unions. That should assist us greatly.

And the craic is great in Ireland. Everyone loves the Irish. We are uniquely placed.

Where will all these people live though? Now that is a problem. We can always import construction workers but they need housing too.

givyjoe

NickNickleby wrote: »

Well, if I was considering selling, I'd probably put my house up now, while the madness exists. The cost of renting thereafter would probably be WELL offset by the current mad prices apparently being achieved.

Hopefully the madness subsides by summer. In which case, both your neighbours will benefit from a falling market (having benefitted from a mad market) - and the same will apply to those currently struggling to get a property. I really hope so.

Would it though? Like how much would a 3 bed house cost to rent? 2-2.5k? If you do that for a year, you're going to be losing a fairly sizeable chunk of your selling premium.

JimmyVik

K.Hawksworth wrote: »

All 3 companies are known to pay well so they probably won't have too much trouble sourcing accommodation. That's assuming none of the 3,000 live here already, which a lot probably do.

It was actually said in Jest
I was next going to ask props could he sort them out with some of his empty properties. But the joke died on me

NickNickleby

givyjoe wrote: »

Would it though? Like how much would a 3 bed house cost to rent? 2-2.5k? If you do that for a year, you're going to be losing a fairly sizeable chunk of your selling premium.

At those rates you're probably right. I was assuming (there's that word again:D) rent of 1.8 - 2k. I was also assuming significant drop selling prices.

Anyway, as sentiment plays a part in the market, consider my post a contribution to that:pac::pac::pac:

The_Conductor

cnocbui wrote: »

A commerce spokesman representing US companies based in Ireland has previously complained to the Irish government about the excessive costs and complexities of the Irish legal system calling them a notable disincentive, so I am not sure the legal system is exactly an attraction.

Honestly- try to put together a labour case in France and bring it to court- and compare your experience to here. Its chalk and cheese (to say nothing of the open contempt that some magistrates in France hold for US multinational companies). Don't under-estimate the benefit our legal system here- it may be pricey, but by god, its a lot easier to navigate than the systems in many of our competitor EU countries.

fliball123

Zenify wrote: »

our unemployment rate is also a record I'd say.

We wont know this until Covid is gone

Villa05

Mad_maxx wrote:

i know the Limerick city market well , bar circa 2014 at the latest , you could not buy apartments in Limerick city for 70 K anywhere bar the dumps on the Dock road around mount kennet and those are 100 k today.

Do you think that the government's housing policy in Dublin will be the mount Kennet's of the future.

The_Conductor wrote:

Presumably south of the M50- though a lot of them would naturally like to live in the greater Lucan/Leixlip/Maynooth/Kilcock areas.

If they built houses from the chips they make, would they be cheaper than the ones made with concrete blocks

jill_valentine

That Intel announcement is quite creative...

The 1600 "new" jobs announced are the same 1600 announced in 2019. It's the staff complement of the chip factory they've currently got between 4-6000 people building, so in a sense, the completion of that factory marks the end of several thousand jobs.

They announced how many people will staff the factory, started building the factory, and then reannounced they're going to staff the factory they've almost built. It doesn't represent a renewed commitment or anything, it's just following through on their ongoing investment.

That's neither here nor there in terms of this thread, because I suppose the relevance is whether it represents MNC confidence in Ireland, but just for clarity's sake.

awec

jill_valentine wrote: »

That Intel announcement is quite creative...

The 1600 "new" jobs announced are the same 1600 announced in 2019. It's the staff complement of the chip factory they've currently got between 4-6000 people building, so in a sense, the completion of that factory marks the end of several thousand jobs.

They announced how many people will staff the factory, started building the factory, and then reannounced they're going to staff the factory they've almost built. It doesn't represent a renewed commitment or anything, it's just following through on their ongoing investment.

That's neither here nor there in terms of this thread, because I suppose the relevance is whether it represents MNC confidence in Ireland, but just for clarity's sake.

4-6000 people building?

Are you sure about that number?

Hubertj

cnocbui wrote: »

Sounds a bit weird - the bit about over the three years to the end of 2021. I thought it was already 2021. So they have been secretly investing 2.5B a year since early 2019? And this didn't create any jobs worth mentioning, but now suddenly 1600 will be created all of a sudden? Also, the details will be available by the end of this year for something that has already happened?

Do you suppose they meant 2023?

I believe there were delays due to challenges around planning. Not sure if they have been resolved as yet.

MacronvFrugals

I see Eastern European academics are having an inquisitive look under the hood of the green isle



"Why you shouldn't trust Ireland's economic statistics"

Ireland uses enormous incentives to attract intangible assets as well as research & development expenditure by the international corporations. Such activities allow global firms to reduce their tax burden nearly to zero.

Ireland uses such practices at the expense of other EU member states.

The above-mentioned mechanisms encourage international corporations to artificially transfer profits earned in other countries.

This process generates around two-thirds of Ireland's CIT revenue, but at the same time it costs other countries – primarily the EU, the United Kingdom and the United States – billions of dollars/euros every year.

Therefore, Ireland has become one of the world's greatest acquirers of phantom foreign investments. Phantom, because its objective is tax optimisation rather than productive use of capital.

First and foremost, the cause of the problem should be dealt with – by putting an end to the practices used by Ireland, typical of a tax haven.

https://euobserver.com/opinion/151169#:~:text=Ireland%20is%20a%20tax%20haven&text=The%20standard%20corporate%20income%20tax,expenditure%20by%20the%20international%20corporations.

The_Conductor

Hubertj wrote: »

I believe there were delays due to challenges around planning. Not sure if they have been resolved as yet.

Thomas Reid, the farmer whose land borders Intels- was given leave to apply for a judicial review of Intel's Planning permission in Feb 2020. With Covid- its o/s and hasn't been resolved yet, however, the portents are not in Mr. Reid's favour. Think its the 4th or 5th case he has taken against Intel in the last 7 years.

Still o/s.

cnocbui

The_Conductor wrote: »

Honestly- try to put together a labour case in France and bring it to court- and compare your experience to here. Its chalk and cheese (to say nothing of the open contempt that some magistrates in France hold for US multinational companies). Don't under-estimate the benefit our legal system here- it may be pricey, but by god, its a lot easier to navigate than the systems in many of our competitor EU countries.

It's taken me €5,000, more than two years, and one lawyer unfortunately passed away on the job, to get an executorship and probate sorted.

In Autralia the issue would never even have arisen, so cost would have been zero as you don't need lawyers to do a probate.

It was the US chamber of commerce who directed the complaint at the Irish government, not me:

the World Bank is also of the view that Ireland is a costly place to litigate, finding it to be the sixth most expensive place in the OECD to enforce a contract.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/caveat-emptor-the-soaring-cost-of-legal-services-36222383.html

Villa05

MacronvFrugals wrote:

I see Eastern European academics are having an inquisitive look under the hood of the green isle

Was it Michael noonan who brought in the knowledge box tax incentive. It was my understanding that this was for ideas developed in Ireland. Has it evolved into a box where ideas developed elsewhere are transferred into to minimise tax. If that is the case we are really milking it dry

timmyntc

awec wrote: »

4-6000 people building?

Are you sure about that number?

Their new building is huge in scale and size, hard to grasp just how large it is.
Also because its a semiconductor fab, lots of other skilled staff required to install some of the more technical components.

Across the lifetime of the build, 4-6000 is probably right. Not all at once.

awec

cnocbui wrote: »

It's taken me €5,000, more than two years, and one lawyer unfortunately passed away on the job, to get an executorship and probate sorted.

In Autralia the issue would never even have arisen, so cost would have been zero as you don't need lawyers to do a probate.

It was the US chamber of commerce who directed the complaint at the Irish government, not me:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/caveat-emptor-the-soaring-cost-of-legal-services-36222383.html

Australia uses the same legal system as here (common law).

cnocbui

awec wrote: »

Australia uses the same legal system as here (common law).

You don't need a Lawyer to buy and sell residential property in Australia. The system might be called common, but there is scant in common between the two legal systems, in a practical sense for normal people.

awec

cnocbui wrote: »

You don't need a Lawyer to buy and sell residential property in Australia. The system might be called common, but there is scant in common between the two legal systems, in a practical sense for normal people.

People don't hire solicitors when buying houses because the legal system is complicated, buying a house doesn't have much to do with the legal system itself.

timmyntc

awec wrote: »

People don't hire solicitors when buying houses because the legal system is complicated, buying a house doesn't have much to do with the legal system itself.

Thats the point?

Its not complicated and you shouldnt need a solicitor. But in Ireland you do, and it will cost you.