2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

Marius34

bubblypop wrote: »

I see what you mean, ok, in my profession someone starting out in 2000 could afford a 3 bed semi, in Dublin. It cost approx 2/3 times their starting salary.
Now, someone starting out in my profession, would need to spend 10 times their starting salary to afford a 3 bed semi in Dublin.
Does that make sense?

Not really, what would the average salary in Dublin in 2000? what was the price for average semi-D? how you get this 2/3 times starting salary.
As far as I know Dublin wasn't that cheap, to get 3 bed semi with 2/3 times starting salary.

hometruths

fliball123 wrote: »

wow didnt know that ..thats mad if it is true as thats now going back to 100% mortgages with the buyer having no skin in the game.

easy access to cheap credit. Who’d have thought it.

1percent

bubblypop wrote: »

I have bought and sold two properties that I have lived in since then.
I am well able to fix things myself and am extremely sensible with my money, thanks.
I have no problem buying in Dublin personally.
But I'm not blind to the issues that younger people have starting out now, and they do have problems. Anyone dismissing them have their head somewhere it shouldn't be!!
And unfortunately not everyone gets to choose where they work believe it or not.

Personally I would prefer that my community was full of people who work here, who have ties to the area. The local teacher, nurses, gardai, I think it's a bonus that they live in The area where they work, instead of travelling a few hundred kilometres away to sleep for a few hours, then back.

There is something seriously wrong when those people cannot afford to live in areas of the city that they work in, but the state continue to pay rent and buy property for people who do not work in those areas.

I think his point is more, a nurse on €50k/year in Bomount renting in Dublin and cannot afford to buy anything in Dublin could apply for a job in the Limerick Regional Hospital on the same €50/year and afford to buy a not bad apt in Limerick. Which knowing that market a little bit is 100% fesable.

I don't think he was suggesting that they buy in Limerick and commute 2hours each way every day.

Obviously this isn't for everyone and yes the market is dysfunctional but we all have to cut our cloth to meet our measure.

Likewise anyone spending 50% of their salary on rent is a moron. Live in the best place you can afford on 25%, 30% net at a push, if that means house share so be it. A bit of hardship builds character.

hometruths

1percent wrote: »

I think his point is more, a nurse on €50k/year in Bomount renting in Dublin and cannot afford to buy anything in Dublin could apply for a job in the Limerick Regional Hospital on the same €50/year and afford to buy a not bad apt in Limerick. Which knowing that market a little bit is 100% fesable.

I don't think he was suggesting that they buy in Limerick and commute 2hours each way every day.

Obviously this isn't for everyone and yes the market is dysfunctional but we all have to cut our cloth to meet our measure.

Likewise anyone spending 50% of their salary on rent is a moron. Live in the best place you can afford on 25%, 30% net at a push, if that means house share so be it. A bit of hardship builds character.

But if the answer to the problem of nurses in Dublin not being able to afford to buy in Dublin is to move to Limerick to buy apartments, who is going to look after the sick people in Dublin’s hospitals?

Nurses with rich parents I guess.

Hubertj

schmittel wrote: »

But if the answer to the problem of nurses in Dublin not being able to afford to buy in Dublin is to move to Limerick to buy apartments, who is going to look after the sick people in Dublin’s hospitals?

Nurses with rich parents I guess.

When the market crashes and all the MNCs leave affordability won’t be a factor

hometruths

Hubertj wrote: »

When the market crashes and all the MNCs leave affordability won’t be a factor

True. Nurses in Dublin should sit tight a little longer.

DataDude

schmittel wrote: »

But if the answer to the problem of nurses in Dublin not being able to afford to buy in Dublin is to move to Limerick to buy apartments, who is going to look after the sick people in Dublin’s hospitals?

Nurses with rich parents I guess.

It'll be one of two solutions.

Either we'll see people earning €50k+ receiving HAP or even worse they'll introduce some sort of "Nursing Ireland" loan where they generously allow frontline workers in Dublin borrow up to their eye balls with 6x salary loans to thank them for all their great work they do!

hi!

cnocbui wrote: »

The nurse: There are somwhere around 92 job vacancies in that field in or near Limerick. Is there a salary loading for Dublin or would a nurse be paid the same for doing the same at, say, Limerick rgional?

My example of an apartment for €70 K existed in Oct and I provided the link and proof. Now it probably went for a bit more, but the gist of the property is cheaper outside of Dublin argument still stands: https://www.daft.ie/property-for-sale/limerick?salePrice_to=125000



That's the kitchen I started with when I bought my current house. At the time, banks would lend for the house and the cost of rennovation. Most people don't want the work involved, and that's their real objection. Have you personally applied for a loan for something that's a bit run-down, but livable in and which you could move in and fix up? Did the bank reject your application?

‘The Nurse’ is a Neonatal intensive care nurse. The sickest babies from the country come to Dublin. The transport team alternate from the main 3 maternity hospital. The team goes and stabilises sick babies from Donegal, Galway, Limerick etc & transport them to Dublin. They are in need of intensive and highly skilled care. We look after babies that are 23 weeks gestation. We take high risk women who are at risk of preterm delivery or babies with cardiac issues who will need transfer to Crumlin/Temple St. My skills are needed in DUBLIN ffs. It’s not as simple as you keep trying to make it out to be.
Yes nurses doctors teachers etc are needed elsewhere in the country. But a lot of the intensive treatments are in Dublin.

1percent

1percent wrote: »

I think his point is more, a nurse on €50k/year in Bomount renting in Dublin and cannot afford to buy anything in Dublin could apply for a job in the Limerick Regional Hospital on the same €50/year and afford to buy a not bad apt in Limerick. Which knowing that market a little bit is 100% fesable.

I don't think he was suggesting that they buy in Limerick and commute 2hours each way every day.

Obviously this isn't for everyone and yes the market is dysfunctional but we all have to cut our cloth to meet our measure.

Likewise anyone spending 50% of their salary on rent is a moron. Live in the best place you can afford on 25%, 30% net at a push, if that means house share so be it. A bit of hardship builds character.

I understand what his point is, my point is I would prefer that people working in these services in dublin, live in Dublin.
Many nurse or teacher can work in limerick obviously. if they are all working in limerick, who works in Dublin? A Garda just out of templemore has no say as to where they are stationed.
These people should be able to afford a home in the areas they work, but instead we see the state pay to house people who don't work, in the city.

Calling people morons for paying the rent they have to is a terrible reflection on your character tbh.

1percent

schmittel wrote: »

But if the answer to the problem of nurses in Dublin not being able to afford to buy in Dublin is to move to Limerick to buy apartments, who is going to look after the sick people in Dublin’s hospitals?

Nurses with rich parents I guess.

There is a broad spectrum of people, each with their own priorities the above is a solution for the particular cohort that are single and have a priority to buy and currently rent.
There are those who can live at home and save, there are those that already own, there are those in a couple with double income.

Priorities could be lifestyle , further education, shoes, what ever your having yourself.

A 22yo in a house share will have different priorities to a 49yo with a family and their own home, we all have our race to run in this life.

Marius34

Marius34 wrote: »

Not really, what would the average salary in Dublin in 2000? what was the price for average semi-D? how you get this 2/3 times starting salary.
As far as I know Dublin wasn't that cheap, to get 3 bed semi with 2/3 times starting salary.

Starting salary in my job was approx 22,000 pounds. 3 bed semis in many parts of dublin could be bought starting 50,000 up.

hi!

1percent wrote: »

I think his point is more, a nurse on €50k/year in Bomount renting in Dublin and cannot afford to buy anything in Dublin could apply for a job in the Limerick Regional Hospital on the same €50/year and afford to buy a not bad apt in Limerick. Which knowing that market a little bit is 100% fesable.

I don't think he was suggesting that they buy in Limerick and commute 2hours each way every day.

Obviously this isn't for everyone and yes the market is dysfunctional but we all have to cut our cloth to meet our measure.

Likewise anyone spending 50% of their salary on rent is a moron. Live in the best place you can afford on 25%, 30% net at a push, if that means house share so be it. A bit of hardship builds character.

Yes a nurse working in Beaumont could just move to Limerick. But that nurse my have years of training and be highly skilled in looking after people with brain injuries seen as that’s where people from all over the country are transported to with brain injuries. But I guess those people can look after themselves after major brain surgery

hometruths

DataDude wrote: »

It'll be one of two solutions.

Either we'll see people earning €50k+ receiving HAP or even worse they'll introduce some sort of "Nursing Ireland" loan where they generously allow frontline workers in Dublin borrow up to their eye balls with 6x salary loans to thank them for all their great work they do!

Worryingly I think your Nursing Ireland idea is exactly the sort of wheeze the govt would push.

1percent

bubblypop wrote: »

I understand what his point is, my point is I would prefer that people working in these services in dublin, live in Dublin.
Minecraft nurse or teacher can work in limericks obviously. A Garda just out of templemore has no say as to where they are stationed.
These people should be able to afford a home in the areas they work, but instead we see the state pay to house people who don't work, in the city.

Calling people morons for paying the rent they have to is a terrible reflection on your character tbh.

I would share several of your ambitions for better better resource allocations a better world ect. but sadly 15,000 years of human civilization would suggest that utopia is not around the corner, it could get better and it could get worse but in the long term we tend to incrementally better, this is why I feel everyone should be making life choices for themselves and their betterment based on the reality that is around them.

I take your point on name calling, what are your thoughts on using "financial illiterate"? Single people have huge flexibility on rent in dublin, single rooms for sub 500 galore so there is no excuse for a single person paying 50% in rent, that is a lifestyle choice.

Families i will admit are a more difficult situation with schoolsand the space requirements so I would not include them in the above statement

1percent

hi! wrote: »

Yes a nurse working in Beaumont could just move to Limerick. But that nurse my have years of training and be highly skilled in looking after people with brain injuries seen as that’s where people from all over the country are transported to with brain injuries. But I guess those people can look after themselves after major brain surgery

Yes and in this case that nurse, I imagine, would not get the same job in limerick and has to work in dublin, her/his colleague who has transferable skills can move if s/he so chooses to.

Like wise both nurses could stop working have a couple of kids and get a council house and be on the pigs back according to some. Its horses for courses, if you can, and you want to why not?

Hubertj

schmittel wrote: »

Worryingly I think your Nursing Ireland idea is exactly the sort of wheeze the govt would push.

I have an idea. Can’t believe nobody thought of it before me. What if the local authorities built houses at cost and offered them for sale at affordable prices. Some priority would have to be given to essential workers such as nurses, Gardaí, etc.
Better get onto Eoghan Murphy. I’m a genius.

fliball123

schmittel wrote: »

easy access to cheap credit. Who’d have thought it.

Its still not easy access to the mortgage part. Have you tried to get a mortgage from a bank lately ?

Marius34

bubblypop wrote: »

Starting salary in my job was approx 22,000 pounds. 3 bed semis in many parts of dublin could be bought starting 50,000 up.

luckily the internet was there already, to confirm that this is just an individual gossips, far from the actual market.

Just a random one example, there are multiple different sources, all contradicts what you saying, and draw a fairly similar picture:

"The average house these days costs just under £125,000 pounds. In Dublin the average price is £165,000 and the figures are still going up. According to the latest Irish Permanent/ESRI survey, the prices are rising faster this year than they were last, contradicting any earlier reports that house prices were beginning to level off or even drop in certain areas. The survey claims that, for the first six months of this year, house prices in Ireland rose by 10.4%. This compares to 7.3% over the same period in 1999."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2000/0706/7781-housing/

Marius34

Marius34 wrote: »

luckily the internet was there already, to confirm that this is just an individual gossips, far from the actual market.

Just a random one example, there are multiple different sources, all contradicts what you saying, and draw a fairly similar picture:

"The average house these days costs just under £125,000 pounds. In Dublin the average price is £165,000 and the figures are still going up. According to the latest Irish Permanent/ESRI survey, the prices are rising faster this year than they were last, contradicting any earlier reports that house prices were beginning to level off or even drop in certain areas. The survey claims that, for the first six months of this year, house prices in Ireland rose by 10.4%. This compares to 7.3% over the same period in 1999."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2000/0706/7781-housing/

The average price!
Which includes mansions in dalkey and howth. Ordinary 3 bed semis in decent areas around Dublin were bought from 50,000 pounds, I know because me and many of my friends bought them.

Browney7

What's the story with mortgage exemptions at present? Do you have to be down along the bidding process and then apply or do you get allocated them pre bidding? With the chronic lack of supply, if banks are putting out exemptions to the 3.5 multiple at the same time as little supply it could explain some of the movement in Q1.

Marius34

bubblypop wrote: »

The average price!
Which includes mansions in dalkey and howth. Ordinary 3 bed semis in decent areas around Dublin were bought from 50,000 pounds, I know because me and many of my friends bought them.

Yes we know that average skew the data, but is not that far of from the Median, it can 10,20 or 30% in difference, but not a few times. Even back then majority of properties in Dublin would have been 3 bedroom houses, and not mansions.

Clonee in 1999, 3 bed new builds were ~125K. Don't say that Clonee was an outlier of high end area.
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/clonee-three-beds-starting-at-125-950-1.223071

For 50K, you would have got only small 2 bed (80sqm) house in areas around Ballymun, Tallaght, etc.

Shankill, sandyford, lucan, blanchardstown.
Areas that we bought houses.

Marius34

bubblypop wrote: »

Shankill, sandyford, lucan, blanchardstown.
Areas that we bought houses.

Here you go 2000 Lucan, Blanchardstown:
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/first-time-buyers-face-tough-choices-1.231429

"People working in or near Dublin still face tough choices if they want to buy their first house in the first year of the 21st century. With a few exceptions, people with little more than £100,000 to spend will have to choose between buying a "commuter home" in a country town up to 50 miles outside the capital, or buying a small city centre apartment or a former local authority house in a not-so-popular area of the city.

But it is worth looking hard at west Dublin - Blanchardstown, Huntstown, Hartstown, Clonsilla, Lucan - before deciding to head for hills. Three-bed semidetached houses built around 15 years ago are selling for between £100,000 and £115,000; more-recently built houses with modern features, such as en suite bathrooms, can be bought for £120,000-plus."

DataDude

Browney7 wrote: »

What's the story with mortgage exemptions at present? Do you have to be down along the bidding process and then apply or do you get allocated them pre bidding? With the chronic lack of supply, if banks are putting out exemptions to the 3.5 multiple at the same time as little supply it could explain some of the movement in Q1.

We went with a broker and were told you can only get exemptions after going sale agreed. My friend, who’s on a lower income, applied directly with the same bank a week later and got 4.2x within a couple of days. Due to the very low volume of sales this year, exemptions seem incredibly easy to get at the minute from what I’ve heard.

enricoh

Our corporation tax is in the crosshairs from all sides it seems. Gonna need a good houdini act to get away unscathed from all threats.

Surely someone must be whispering in the governments ear to close the purse strings to see how it pans out, or will they keep on trucking and keep the property market alive?!

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/biden-s-global-minimum-tax-rate-carries-big-dangers-for-ireland-1.4525075?mode=amp

Omg I have no idea why you are arguing with me, I'm merely stating what I lived through.
Houses were bought from 50,000 pounds, second hand obviously. Personally, I bought at 67,500 & sold in 2007 for 445,000 euros. a 3 bed semi in South dublin.
That was pretty typical of all my graduating class. My best friend & her husband sold a tiny 3 bed in bray in 2008, bought for around 154000 in 2002, & build a mansion in the country with no mortgage.
This is not new information, it was quite normal occurrence.

Now, I don't care if you don't believe me, and I don't think there's much point in us arguing off topic about this.

Hubertj

enricoh wrote: »

Our corporation tax is in the crosshairs from all sides it seems. Gonna need a good houdini act to get away unscathed from all threats.

Surely someone must be whispering in the governments ear to close the purse strings to see how it pans out, or will they keep on trucking and keep the property market alive?!

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/biden-s-global-minimum-tax-rate-carries-big-dangers-for-ireland-1.4525075?mode=amp

That’s the US starting position. I believe it will come in at around 15% which is what has been mooted for the last few years. Even if agreement is arrived at this year, implementation will take some time.

Marius34

bubblypop wrote: »

Omg I have no idea why you are arguing with me, I'm merely stating what I lived through.
Houses were bought from 50,000 pounds, second hand obviously. Personally, I bought at 67,500 & sold in 2007 for 445,000 euros. a 3 bed semi in South dublin.
That was pretty typical of all my graduating class. My best friend & her husband sold a tiny 3 bed in bray in 2008, bought for around 154000 in 2002, & build a mansion in the country with no mortgage.
This is not new information, it was quite normal occurrence.

Now, I don't care if you don't believe me, and I don't think there's much point in us arguing off topic about this.

I don't really want to arguing your case, but rather I argue popular perception that affordability got worst in current property market by multiple times, you are not the first one to state it here:

bubblypop wrote: »

You're still ignoring the fact that 20 years ago a house cost 2/3 times a salary, now it costs 10 times the salary.

Which is simply just a popular gossips, and not a fact. If someone tries to dig in it, analyze the actual market of that times market, would find out that it's long way from actual facts.

Note, I don't argue that affordability got worst since 2000, but simply as usual, it just highly exaggerated.

L1011

I think we're suffering from the common problem of thinking the 80s were 20 years ago still. When 2001 was. Rather horrifying when you're in your 30s, but reality.

House for 3* salary was late 1980s

And yet I and many of my friends bought house for 2/3 times our salaries in 99/2000/2001