2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

DataDude

schmittel wrote: »

I agree, and I'm as about as bearish as you can get on the overall market and think most of what is offered is overpriced and driven by disfunction.

I certainly would not call this good value but I can get my head around why somebody might pay big bucks for it, far more than I can understand somebody paying 1m to live in a meh housing estate in Foxrock/Cornelscourt.

Will third this. It's an unfathomable amount of money to be able to spend on a house. But if I won the Euromillions and it came on the market again, I'd be bidding on it.

woejus

DataDude wrote: »

It made €2.95m in the end...
https://www.propertypriceregister.ie/Website/npsra/PPR/npsra-ppr.nsf/eStampUNID/UNID-693AE95832CE02E58025842C00477876?OpenDocument

I walk by it most days. It's probably one of the nicest houses I've ever seen in person. Were it to go again it would easily clear €3m.

Unmolested seaviews in SoCoDu are a rarity. They always serve to back up the price when you view a place with one. There's never going to be an apartment block, a shopping centre or a halting site built in the bay outside that house.

The equivalent in Spain or Portugal is "first-line" or "front-line" - you're paying over the odds for the guarantee nothing bad is going to happen to the front of your property or views.

That house is tastefully re-done, all the engineering issues have been taken care of. Period houses are a box of unknowns, and it seems they've all been sorted in this one; the price reflects this.

standardg60

woejus wrote: »

Unmolested seaviews in SoCoDu are a rarity. They always serve to back up the price when you view a place with one. There's never going to be an apartment block, a shopping centre or a halting site built in the bay outside that house.

The equivalent in Spain or Portugal is "first-line" or "front-line" - you're paying over the odds for the guarantee nothing bad is going to happen to the front of your property or views.

That house is tastefully re-done, all the engineering issues have been taken care of. Period houses are a box of unknowns, and it seems they've all been sorted in this one; the price reflects this.

Given the purchase price in an extremely distressed market and the similarly then competitive construction costs the price does indeed seem reasonable.

But we are hardly talking about a market in which recourse to mortgages is relevant.

Given the sale was nearly two years ago would be very interesting to see a current valuation though. Personally wouldn't surprise me to see another million on it.

standardg60

Cyrus wrote: »

serious 3 star hotel lobby vibes from the sitting room here, size for the sake of it

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/pine-lodge-carrickbrack-road-howth-co-dublin/4311230

I knew i recognised that facade from somewhere.

The Amityville Horror.

Pussyhands

Pussyhands wrote: »

Do you need to show proof of anything when bidding to an agent? Or do they accept bids from anyone?

I needed a written AIP to be able to put in an offer on the place I just bought. That was with Sherry Fitz. I assume is standard now once people start dropping out and you get to the serious bidders

TheoBane

Hey all,

It's been a few years since I have been on Boards, so go easy on me!

Just wondering if anyone knows what Ballybrack is like to live now, the latest information I can find is from 2016 and that it was slightly rough on the west side. But since then I haven't heard anything! Looking at a property off Military road, so I was wondering should I look into it more. I used to live in Dun Laoghaire, so i was thinking it might be similar?

TheoBane

TheoBane wrote: »

Hey all,

It's been a few years since I have been on Boards, so go easy on me!

Just wondering if anyone knows what Ballybrack is like to live now, the latest information I can find is from 2016 and that it was slightly rough on the west side. But since then I haven't heard anything! Looking at a property off Military road, so I was wondering should I look into it more. I used to live in Dun Laoghaire, so i was thinking it might be similar?

Really depends where it is exactly.
Military road ballybrack is quite a short road with larger type houses. It is the quieter road in the village

awec

If I had 3 million to spend on a house I'd buy that Blackrock one no bother.

I'd say that must tick nearly every box.

Highly desirable location (Blackrock).
Large property (those period gaffs are huge, particularly ones with extensions).
South facing, private garden
Recently renovated to very high standard so should be no hidden gotchas.
Off street parking.
Sea view that will never be disturbed.
On a relatively quiet road.
30 second walk to Dart station.

What is going against it? Proximity to the dart line maybe.

RichardAnd

Pussyhands wrote: »

Do you need to show proof of anything when bidding to an agent? Or do they accept bids from anyone?

I asked an agent this recently just to see what he would say. HE said that they would ask for proof of funds to go sale agreed, but that I could make an offer "in the mean time". For the particular agent, any Joe Soap could offer any amount of money on a property.

The house I was asking him about has gone nearly 80k over the asking price within 3 days. I wonder why....

Villa05

awec wrote:

Highly desirable location (Blackrock). Large property (those period gaffs are huge, particularly ones with extensions). South facing, private garden Recently renovated to very high standard so should be no hidden gotchas. Off street parking. Sea view that will never be disturbed. On a relatively quiet road. 30 second walk to Dart station.

Do people who buy a 3 million house use the Dart?

Sorry this is an education for me

Cyrus

Villa05 wrote: »

Do people who buy a 3 million house use the Dart?

Sorry this is an education for me

Why wouldn’t they ? Rich people aren’t immune from traffic , if it was handy to work you’d be a bit mad not to.

drunkmonkey

Meanwhile down near the other capital you can have the water views with space for a helipad and enough left over for a 911 turbo, helicopter and a modesty priced yacht.
https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/detached-house-windward-tisaxon-more-kinsale-co-cork/2577548

I was just reading an american article on 10 best places for americans to retire in Europe and Kinsale made the list.

bilbot79

JimmyVik wrote: »

To be fair, houses are definitely not getting built with large plots anymore in SCD. So I guess they are scarce alright.

What constitutes a large plot? In sq m like

enricoh

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-40259750.html?type=amp

Our corporation tax glory days seem to be numbered, hopefully they can agree a date of 2030 for it to get harmonized and we can wean ourselves off gently. Otherwise it's cold turkey!
Ireland gets more in corporation tax than france n germany combined- god bless their tolerance and our brass neck!

Anyone looking for a foreva home may get one quick, I can't see the government squandering as much as they are now on housing in the coming years.

Hubertj

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Meanwhile down near the other capital you can have the water views with space for a helipad and enough left over for a 911 turbo, helicopter and a modesty priced yacht.
https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/detached-house-windward-tisaxon-more-kinsale-co-cork/2577548

I was just reading an american article on 10 best places for americans to retire in Europe and Kinsale made the list.

That’s a nice gaff. And the number of langers you encounter in Kinsale is manageable.

Stark

Funny thing I'm looking at two houses in the same estate, both look identical spec and equally nice judging from the photos/video. One had asking price of 450k, the other had asking price of 495k. The 450k house has gone sale agreed for 560k (madness for a 90m2 3 bed semi-d, one bathroom, built in 90s). The other has no offers at all. Wonder if it's a case of people seeing the more attractive initial asking price and then a mania taking over when it gets to bidding?

CorkRed93

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/glenveagh-secures-green-light-for-702-build-to-rent-apartments-1.4530316

As part of its Part V social housing obligations, Glenveagh is planning to sell six three-bed apartments at an indicative cost of €791,531 each to the city council as part of the proposed €33.4 million deal.

The builder is also planning to sell 14 two-bed apartments to the council at a cost of €641,899 each and 41 one-bed apartments at a cost of €408,074 each. It also plans to sell 10 studio apartments to the council at a cost of €297,323 each.

obscene

The_Conductor

We critically need the PAC or someone with the power to make a difference, to take an interest in this- as the abuse of taxpayers funds is obscene.

theballz

Stark wrote: »

Funny thing I'm looking at two houses in the same estate, both look identical spec and equally nice judging from the photos/video. One had asking price of 450k, the other had asking price of 495k. The 450k house has gone sale agreed for 560k (madness for a 90m2 3 bed semi-d, one bathroom, built in 90s). The other has no offers at all. Wonder if it's a case of people seeing the more attractive initial asking price and then a mania taking over when it gets to bidding?

Some agents will lowball the asking price to create demand and will ultimately try start a bidding war to drive the price up.

Asking prices these days are fluff, just another example of the lack of regulations in Ireland.

awec

Villa05 wrote: »

Do people who buy a 3 million house use the Dart?

Sorry this is an education for me

The people buying that sort of house are more "normal" than you'd think.

MacronvFrugals

Donohoe warns pandemic has boosted international calls to raise corporate tax

Demands by larger economies for changes to global tax policy could prove hard to resist as they have been “supercharged” by the Covid-19 crisis, Minister for Finance Paschal Donohoe has indicated.

https://www.businesspost.ie/ireland/donohoe-warns-pandemic-has-boosted-international-calls-to-raise-corporate-tax-245bbbde

RichardAnd

CorkRed93 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/glenveagh-secures-green-light-for-702-build-to-rent-apartments-1.4530316

As part of its Part V social housing obligations, Glenveagh is planning to sell six three-bed apartments at an indicative cost of €791,531 each to the city council as part of the proposed €33.4 million deal.

The builder is also planning to sell 14 two-bed apartments to the council at a cost of €641,899 each and 41 one-bed apartments at a cost of €408,074 each. It also plans to sell 10 studio apartments to the council at a cost of €297,323 each.

obscene

Would these apartments get these prices if put on the open market? I'm not entirely sure that they would, especially not if all were put on the market at the same time.

CorkRed93

CorkRed93 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/glenveagh-secures-green-light-for-702-build-to-rent-apartments-1.4530316

As part of its Part V social housing obligations, Glenveagh is planning to sell six three-bed apartments at an indicative cost of €791,531 each to the city council as part of the proposed €33.4 million deal.

The builder is also planning to sell 14 two-bed apartments to the council at a cost of €641,899 each and 41 one-bed apartments at a cost of €408,074 each. It also plans to sell 10 studio apartments to the council at a cost of €297,323 each.

obscene

Sickening but no surprise really.

MacronvFrugals

RichardAnd wrote: »

Would these apartments get these prices if put on the open market? I'm not entirely sure that they would, especially not if all were put on the market at the same time.

There's not a hope in hell they would! Sure that's why 4/5ths of apartments in Clancy Quay are vacant and this was pre-Covid also

The_Conductor

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Donohoe warns pandemic has boosted international calls to raise corporate tax

https://www.businesspost.ie/ireland/donohoe-warns-pandemic-has-boosted-international-calls-to-raise-corporate-tax-245bbbde

Not necessarily an issue- if Ireland pushes home the message that its the effective rate of taxation that should matter- and *not* the headline rate.

Its all well and good having a 25% rate of Corporation tax- however, if you have so many loopholes that you don't collect anything (Amazon anyone) its completely meaningless. If you have a 12.5% rate of corporation tax and actually manage to collect the lions share of it- this is far more satisfactory- than the former situation.

This is precisely why Ireland has a higher effective rate of taxation than France. Our rates are lower- but we don't have all the stupid allowances that France has.

Looking at headline rates- in isolation of effective rates- is a complete and utter red herring- it does, however, sound good for politicians and voters- because Janet Yellen (or whoever) is seen to be doing something- when in actual fact, what she is proposing is completely meaningless without a root and branch review of the system of tax avoidance- which enables companies like Amazon, Tesla, Intel and many others- pay next to nothing (or in some cases actually generate a negative tax- aka a rebate) despite being absolute behemoths

Ireland has little/no say in these matters- we have to accept whatever the international consensus turns out to be- but it beholds us to kick up as much of a fuss from the sidelines as possible- pointing at 'effective rates of taxation' as opposed to headline rates of taxation.

mcsean2163

awec wrote: »

If I had 3 million to spend on a house I'd buy that Blackrock one no bother.

I'd say that must tick nearly every box.

Highly desirable location (Blackrock).
Large property (those period gaffs are huge, particularly ones with extensions).
South facing, private garden
Recently renovated to very high standard so should be no hidden gotchas.
Off street parking.
Sea view that will never be disturbed.
On a relatively quiet road.
30 second walk to Dart station.

What is going against it? Proximity to the dart line maybe.

I couldn't disagree more with the first line. I've been actively resisting Blackrock for a long time.

When people ask is somewhere is a good area, I say the worst live in the 'good' areas and the best in the 'worst' areas. Obviously not true for everyone but I think it's a good rule of thumb. As an investment it's probably a good long term one but living there...

Wife is very keen to move but Blackrock is the one place in Ireland I've said no.

Browney7

RichardAnd wrote: »

Would these apartments get these prices if put on the open market? I'm not entirely sure that they would, especially not if all were put on the market at the same time.

They would from a pension fund/reit who manages to get the state to agree to a bulk lease on the enhanced leasing scheme with annual CPI increases for 25 years that gives a "discount" on market rent. Or else the REIT with access to money at near 0% will buy the whole block and use it as a way to park money and lease out a few apartments to corporates.

It seems the state is putting a minimum value on rents by use of leasing schemes and HAP and also propping up values via part V.

PropQueries

Interesting one in the the Irish Times where even more new companies are interested in “helping” us solve our housing issues.

“Solas Living pays €40m for 157 homes across Dublin and Kildare”,

They also state that “Solas Living is also aiming to engage with local authorities in the capital and surrounding areas in relation to the provision of social housing.”.

The interesting one is it also lists some of the estates they’ve recently bought houses in and they do appear to be competing directly with FTBs for second hand homes in the Dublin and Kildare market.

Link to article in Irish Times here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/solas-living-pays-40m-for-157-homes-across-dublin-and-kildare-1.4530153

timmyntc

PropQueries wrote: »

Interesting one in the the Irish Times where even more new companies are interested in “helping” us solve our housing issues.

“Solas Living pays €40m for 157 homes across Dublin and Kildare”,

They also state that “Solas Living is also aiming to engage with local authorities in the capital and surrounding areas in relation to the provision of social housing.”.

The interesting one is it also lists some of the estates they’ve recently bought houses in and they do appear to be competing directly with FTBs for second hand homes in the Dublin and Kildare market.

Link to article in Irish Times here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/solas-living-pays-40m-for-157-homes-across-dublin-and-kildare-1.4530153

Must be a nice little money-spinner setting up an AHB.
The very fact that so many companies are chomping at the bit to lease properties to the state tells you something is very wrong.

MacronvFrugals

PropQueries wrote: »

Interesting one in the the Irish Times where even more new companies are interested in “helping” us solve our housing issues.

“Solas Living pays €40m for 157 homes across Dublin and Kildare”,

They also state that “Solas Living is also aiming to engage with local authorities in the capital and surrounding areas in relation to the provision of social housing.”.

The interesting one is it also lists some of the estates they’ve recently bought houses in and they do appear to be competing directly with FTBs for second hand homes in the Dublin and Kildare market.

Link to article in Irish Times here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/solas-living-pays-40m-for-157-homes-across-dublin-and-kildare-1.4530153

As Killian Woods said recently this is now the preferred model and who could blame them its completely fool proof especially when inflation linked or as one developer put it "as good as a government bond"


There's endless stories about funds directly targeting the leasing game, the likes of Eddie Hobbs and his ilk jumping on this should really be the canary in the coalmine for us!

8000 homes were acquired on lease deals last year