2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

Villa05

JimmyVik wrote:

Probably too busy working.

As are farmers, and they have a pretty effective lobby. Dont forget that you a very large voting bloc

DataDude

Villa05 wrote: »

How come higher taxpayers are not more vocal on how their taxes are spent and lobby for competent spending thereby reducing the need for high taxes

They are a powerful and numerous group judjing by income tax returns during the pandemic

We all know the taxpayer is being milked by lobbyists. Why not set up a lobby to tackle it

Nice idea, but too diverse I'd say. Many would want increases in health spending, for me that's the last thing I want money spent on. Others housing (many would hate this), others transport, others childcare, others lower taxes. There's very little to unify them.

On a slightly more contentious note, in my experience, higher earners tend to be less complainy/rebellious. These are the rules of the game in which you are operating, play it to the best of your abilities or find a new game. If some left wing government decides an 80% marginal tax rate over €100k is a good idea, I'll just leave. Won't be out on the streets with a placard and megaphone...

Would make good viewing on RTE though. Load of people in business attire
"What do we want?"
"Large houses in Dalkey and lower marginal tax rates"
"When do we want them?"
"NOW!"

Villa05

DataDude wrote:

Nice idea, but too diverse I'd say. Many would want increases in health spending, for me that's the last thing I want money spent on. Others housing (many would hate this), others transport, others childcare, others lower taxes. There's very little to unify them.

Keep the objective simple: value for money. We have the youngest population and one of the highest per capita health spends

Housing why pay 750k for units when the same unit can be delivered for a fraction of the cost

Childcare use schools infrastructure for after school care, why have we a system that doubles up infrastructure need


Public transport, sorry I'm lost for words

Cost savings = lower taxes = unification ideal

It's our money

PropQueries

Villa05 wrote: »

Keep the objective simple: value for money. We have the youngest population and one of the highest per capita health spends

Housing why pay 750k for units when the same unit can be delivered for a fraction of the cost

Childcare use schools infrastructure for after school care, why have we a system that doubles up infrastructure need


Public transport, sorry I'm lost for words

Cost savings = lower taxes = unification ideal

It's our money

I guess the data most likely backs this up. However, I would wonder how many of these younger workers are here for the long-term or are just here for as long as the jobs remain here. Will they go back to their home countries if either the jobs dry up or once they have saved enough to buy a property back home?

It seems that we're placing a lot of faith on these younger workers remaining here long-term to keep up the demand for housing and to pay our future pension liabilities. And, remember, we're one of the very few countries in the developed world where our future pension liabilities are basically unfunded.

For example, every time we play the lotto, the Canadian teachers pension fund gets their percentage. Who will pay for our teacher's future pensions?

Mad_maxx

fliball123 wrote: »

The lobbyists always frame it that the ones on the lower wage are benefiting so its hard I have said it before on here in Ireland the lefties shout the loudest

and importantly , the lefties have the ear of media

JimmyVik

PropQueries wrote: »

I guess the data most likely backs this up. However, I would wonder how many of these younger workers are here for the long-term or are just here for as long as the jobs remain here. Will they go back to their home countries if either the jobs dry up or once they have saved enough to buy a property back home?

It seems that we're placing a lot of faith on these younger workers remaining here long-term to keep up the demand for housing and to pay our future pension liabilities. And, remember, we're one of the very few countries in the developed world where our future pension liabilities are basically unfunded.

For example, every time we play the lotto, the Canadian teachers pension fund gets their percentage. Who will pay for our teacher's future pensions?

Maybe the state should take over the lottery

enricoh

SmokyMo wrote: »

I don't understand why do you think its hard to borrow? In fact everything shows that it is very easy to do it right now, and there is massive appetitive for investors to buy debt, even at negative rates?
Ireland should be borrowing to the max right now to sort its myriad of deep ongoing crises.
Unfortunately finance department is run by illiterate charlatans without an ounce of critical thinking.

What happens when interest rates go up?
Our myriad of deep ongoing crises is mainly down to overly generous social welfare payments and high public sector wages.
Someone linked apartments for social housing at 800k a pop, if we borrowed even more the developer might squeeze a nice round million for them in future!

TheoBane

Hey all,

Checking out Churchtown there in South Dublin, I heard that it had a bad rep a few years ago but does it still have the bad reputation now? Looking at houses in Mountain View/Carrickmount Drive at the moment

Hubertj

TheoBane wrote: »

Hey all,

Checking out Churchtown there in South Dublin, I heard that it had a bad rep a few years ago but does it still have the bad reputation now? Looking at houses in Mountain View/Carrickmount Drive at the moment

Mountainview (holylands etc) didn’t have a good reputation when I was younger - 90s and 00s. Valentines and other families... No idea about it nowadays.

Claw Hammer

TheoBane wrote: »

Hey all,

Checking out Churchtown there in South Dublin, I heard that it had a bad rep a few years ago but does it still have the bad reputation now? Looking at houses in Mountain View/Carrickmount Drive at the moment

That's really Nutgrove.

Viscount Aggro

Carrickmount or Montainview.
That's where the chophouse is located.
Was a high profile murder, whole family got convicted.

SmokyMo

enricoh wrote: »

What happens when interest rates go up?
Our myriad of deep ongoing crises is mainly down to overly generous social welfare payments and high public sector wages.
Someone linked apartments for social housing at 800k a pop, if we borrowed even more the developer might squeeze a nice round million for them in future!

Same thing that happens when interest goes up on our current debt. Thats not here or there, and doesnt apply to my point.
You can get money now, credit price is at all time low. Can restructure current debt. Can issue bonds at negative rates. Whatever. Inflation is coming down like freight train. Use it.
Pour this money into, from infrastructure projects to housing to health to education. This country will reap benefits long term.
This has to be underpinned by reforms in those sectors. As we all know civil 'servants' like to suck government budget tit while doing sweet f'all, waiting for those pension top ups.

Councils paying those prices for properties getting back handers so that has to be rectified.

mcsean2163

Villa05 wrote: »

As are farmers, and they have a pretty effective lobby. Dont forget that you a very large voting bloc

Farmers have a LOT of free time and similar priorities.

The_Conductor

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Farmers have a LOT of free time and similar priorities.

Depends on which sector they are in- the beef sector may have a lot more time on their hands than others, but its by no means a trait that is across the board.

Reins

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ey8gfO1XIAAqUqR?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ey8gfbmXMAA-rtn?format=jpg&name=large

Taken from crazyhouseprice

This is insane. Housing Estates sold off to foreign investors

The more investors
The bigger the mess
Usual story

RichardAnd

Reins wrote: »

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ey8gfO1XIAAqUqR?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ey8gfbmXMAA-rtn?format=jpg&name=large

Taken from crazyhouseprice

This is insane. Housing Estates sold off to foreign investors

I know of two new build estates where this happened, though they were admittedly small estates.

This is ignored in the mainstream media. Why? I think we know why...

combat14

RichardAnd wrote: »

I know of two new build estates where this happened, though they were admittedly small estates.

This is ignored in the mainstream media. Why? I think we know why...

sounds like bubble speculation with low interest rates

Hubertj

RichardAnd wrote: »

I know of two new build estates where this happened, though they were admittedly small estates.

This is ignored in the mainstream media. Why? I think we know why...

Surely they could put some regs in place such as x% has to be sold on open market or to FTBers, same as 10% has to be offered as social?

L1011

RichardAnd wrote: »

I know of two new build estates where this happened, though they were admittedly small estates.

This is ignored in the mainstream media. Why? I think we know why...

If this has happened it will be reported in the media quite extensively, in the property sections.

It is not the responsibility of mass market headline news sources to draw your attention to the property pages.

RichardAnd

Hubertj wrote: »

Surely they could put some regs in place such as x% has to be sold on open market or to FTBers, same as 10% has to be offered as social?

I believe that in some states, property within the state may only be purchased by citizens in the country. I would be ok favour of such a thing.

cnocbui

RichardAnd wrote: »

I believe that in some states, property within the state may only be purchased by citizens in the country. I would be ok favour of such a thing.

We are in the EU, so you not appropriate. Perfectly Ok idea for buyers outside the EU.

L1011

cnocbui wrote: »

We are in the EU, so you not appropriate. Perfectly Ok idea for buyers outside the EU.

EU countries can have such restrictions. It may be restricted to the older members who have slightly more rights - but we are one of those.

Denmark's is probably the best known.

I don't know if this would really have any affect though.

Browney7

SmokyMo wrote: »

Same thing that happens when interest goes up on our current debt. Thats not here or there, and doesnt apply to my point.
You can get money now, credit price is at all time low. Can restructure current debt. Can issue bonds at negative rates. Whatever. Inflation is coming down like freight train. Use it.
Pour this money into, from infrastructure projects to housing to health to education. This country will reap benefits long term.
This has to be underpinned by reforms in those sectors. As we all know civil 'servants' like to suck government budget tit while doing sweet f'all, waiting for those pension top ups.

Councils paying those prices for properties getting back handers so that has to be rectified.

While I agree with you in that the state should borrow to invest in infrastructure in particular housing, the Irish state has saw fit to satisfy this need for housing by using:

HAP.
Enhanced leasing scheme where the state get a "discount" on an arbitrary "market" rent set by the developer with CPI linked rent increases.
www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/aberdeen-standard-fund-pays-20m-for-dublin-apartment-portfolio-1.4500219%3fmode=amp. Make no mistake, the price of this development in Smithfield was driven by the state guarantee on rent.

Various public private partnerships. https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1136906/

The state in effect is being dumb money and being a renter of last resort and in doing so, inflating property values and wasting tax payers money.

Reins

L1011 wrote: »

EU countries can have such restrictions. It may be restricted to the older members who have slightly more rights - but we are one of those.

Denmark's is probably the best known.

I don't know if this would really have any affect though.

New Zealand also has banned most foreign investors to non residents property

mcsean2163

PropQueries wrote: »

The AirBnB properties didn’t re-enter the market because the state either bought or rented many of them.

Basically Dublin City may be just one big corporation estate in a few years.

Another reason for people to start embracing WFH outside the capital IMO

Any source for that assertion? Genuinely interested as can't find anything in the news. I though airbnb would convert into extra stock but we haven't seen it at all so as you say, maybe the government have been adding it to HAP?

RichardAnd

Reins wrote: »

New Zealand also has banned most foreign investors to non residents property

I think they allow Chinese investment.

PropQueries

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Any source for that assertion? Genuinely interested as can't find anything in the news. I though airbnb would convert into extra stock but we haven't seen it at all so as you say, maybe the government have been adding it to HAP?

Depends if one believes the Housing Minister is a trustworthy source.

Back in July 2020, the Housing Minister said:

“The Airbnb properties that are now not being used – is there an opportunity for the state to buy more of them? It’s something that I’m looking at, absolutely. It is something that I want to do frankly”.

Timelines seem to match up IMO

Link to article here: https://www.thejournal.ie/darragh-o-brien-housing-minister-5146915-Jul2020/

Graham

Where does the article suggest

The AirBnB properties didn’t re-enter the market because the state either bought or rented many of them

c.p.w.g.w

How are house prices calculated...

I was just doing a bit of window shopping and have seen a few houses all in the same area, and the prices vary wildly...

Can understand square footage and bedrooms etc, but it seems interior design isn't taken into account or even how future proofed the property is...