2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

EddieN75

Ursabear wrote: »

What happens after the 25 year leases are up for the people on HAP if they are still in need of assistance and if the country cannot to pay the high rents that they have agreed to anymore ( if prices and rents keep rising). That's when I think the pension timebomb also explodes?

The plan is to massively increase immigration to massively grow the economy in the hope that more people will mean more tax collected.

They have forgotten that more people also means more people needing services!

Ursabear

EddieN75 wrote: »

The plan is to massively increase immigration to massively grow the economy in the hope that more people will mean more tax collected.

They have forgotten that more people also means more people needing services!

It seems like s tenuous plan ( as I'm sure you are also thinking), as a few have pointed out if MNCs ever decrease their presence here in those 25 years ( what will tech even be like then,) we may not be able to attract so many ppl to Ireland, especially with a high cost of living and low performing services.

coolshannagh28

combat14 wrote: »

looks like regular fine gael tds starting to wake up and smell the coffee for the next election if they dont sort housing out .. and fast......

interesting to see comments about traditional fine gael voters now liking sinn fein housing comments being flagged as a deep concern by the party

varadker not so much... he still loves the investment vulture firms ..


‘They are gunning for him’: Housing Minister criticised at Fine Gael meeting as Leo Varadkar defends investment funds



some ff tds now touting limits of one house purcahse per person .. if that comes in could see mass exodus considered by some investment firms here as govt intervention becomes a step too far..?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/they-are-gunning-for-himhousing-minister-criticised-at-fine-gael-meeting-as-leo-varadkar-defends-investment-funds-40391705.html

This article explains in depth how Govt policy on housing for at least 10 years has been aimed at routing small landlords from the market and encouraging US institutional investors in using tax breaks .

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/ireland-investment-housing-5428746-may2121/

Fg introduced this strategy under advisement from the Troika but FF are going to use it to create pressure .

Jinglejangle69

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

This article explains in depth how Govt policy on housing for at least 10 years has been aimed at routing small landlords from the market and encouraging US institutional investors in using tax breaks .

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/ireland-investment-housing-5428746-may2121/

Fg introduced this strategy under advisement from the Troika but FF are going to use it to create pressure .

How does attracting foreign investors into the country to rent houses and apartments out increase the banks profits like he's suggesting?

Surely that has the opposite affect as less people are taking out mortgages.

Two banks have recently left Ireland as its not profitable enough.

His article doesn't add up.

It's a leftie having a rant at the government. Simple.

AlmightyCushion

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

How does attracting foreign investors into the country to rent houses and apartments out increase the banks profits like he's suggesting?

Surely that has the opposite affect as less people are taking out mortgages.

Two banks have recently left Ireland as its not profitable enough.

His article doesn't add up.

It's a leftie having a rant at the government. Simple.

It also says evictions here are easy which is a load of bull. Problem tenants can stay years in their houses without paying a cent and wreck the place and landlords can do nothing to stop it. When that happens it leads to small time landlords looking to get out of the market.

The easy eviction of tenants is an attractive feature of Irish property investment, as it means they can get in higher-paying tenants, or cash in their investment through a sale if needed.

Jinglejangle69

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

It's a leftie having a rant

In Ireland, are we backwards about our left and right? I always thought Left was 'everyone gets everything for nothing' and right was 'you get nothing unless you earn it'?


But in Ireland (or on Boards anyway) it seems to be the other way around.






Also, completely unrelated, but if you get a mortgage over the line, i presume you set up a direct debit to pay it. Can you set the direct debit up, so that the money comes from a savings account? or does it have to be a current account?

(I keep very little in my current account and even with bills or personal loans i find it annoying to have to transfer from my savings account the day before, to pay a bill, even though i have a savings account earmarked for that specific bill).

Amadan Dubh

The IT pumping out the property market articles overnight!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-to-block-investment-funds-from-buying-up-housing-estates-1.4556502

Government to block investment funds from buying up housing estates

Move has been agreed between three Coalition parties, sources say

The Government will move to block investment funds from buying up entire housing estates, according to senior figures involved in the process.

Discussions are continuing within Government as to how best to implement the policy, but senior Coalition sources confirmed that the move had been agreed between the parties.

The decision comes after fierce Opposition criticism of the Government on the housing issue, following reports that entire developments of family homes had been bought by investment funds, a trend that Opposition parties and housing campaigners said was squeezing families out of the housing market.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/newton-emerson-private-tenants-need-a-right-to-buy-1.4556313?mode=amp

Private tenants need a right to buy

New solutions needed as money available to property investors is bound to swamp supply

It is not only happening in the Republic. A friend from Portadown reports that houses in the Co Armagh town have started selling to cash buyers from England, sight unseen, within hours of being advertised online. Unlike recent stories from Dublin, there is no sign that these buyers are agents for overseas funds or individuals. They appear to be small-time landlords from their own part of the UK or just ordinary people with some cash to invest, browsing property websites. For the moment, this is causing more incredulity than anger in Portadown. That will change once everyone realises they can no longer buy a place to live.

International and corporate investors could be regulated, taxed or prevented from snapping up whole developments, as Minister for Housing Darragh O’Brien is suggesting.

Non-resident foreigners could be banned from buying existing homes, as New Zealand did in 2018.

That would simply clear the way for domestic landlords to re-enter the market – many have been priced out in Ireland by corporate funds, just as they previously priced out owner-occupiers.

I'm surprised how the outrage at the fund buying housing estates has grown so quickly and seems to be turning into real action. Now, if only the shared equity scheme could similarly be scrapped. Considering the extreme but effective measures that can be brought in for Covid, there is no reason not to treat the housing crisis as an emergency requiring similarly extreme and necessary measures, but of course we shall see.

Cyrus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not sure if your links are mixed up, but I can't see any issue with that at all. They had a massive site, so now they're probably living in a free house, by virtue of selling the other one. I'd do the same.

I'm just saying I'd be less inclined to buy something like that , the remaining garden isn't really in keeping with with house as you can see from next door.

Someone will buy it though

Cyrus

DataDude wrote: »

Both stunning houses - always thought Howth/Sutton were close enough to south side prices but have seen a few prime properties of late that make me thing otherwise. That one in Sutton being a good example.

Also thought this looked like a relative "bargain" if you think what it would go for in Dalkey. https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/16-asgard-park-howth-county-dublin/4466867

Definite 'value' on the North side in that segment and the benefit of a better aspect with rear sea views I think that howth house would be close to twice the price in dalkey .

Wanderer78

Amadan Dubh wrote:

I'm surprised how the outrage at the fund buying housing estates has grown so quickly and seems to be turning into real action. Now, if only the shared equity scheme could similarly be scrapped. Considering the extreme but effective measures that can be brought in for Covid, there is no reason not to treat the housing crisis as an emergency requiring similarly extreme and necessary measures, but of course we shall see.

Our politicians are lost with this one, they have failed to listen to advisors all along, particularly since 08, and now we re in deep trouble with it. I suspect we could be nearing the end of the era of ffg lead governments, as their main ideologies are collapsing, in regards our most critical of needs, housing being the obvious failure, but how bad will this become, before the end of this era?

enricoh

Ursabear wrote: »

It seems like s tenuous plan ( as I'm sure you are also thinking), as a few have pointed out if MNCs ever decrease their presence here in those 25 years ( what will tech even be like then,) we may not be able to attract so many ppl to Ireland, especially with a high cost of living and low performing services.

The multinationals are getting it tough to convince foreign staff to relocate to dublin as apartments rents are so high.
The government are keeping rents high by leasing apartments en masse for top dollar for social housing.
Sure sod it if the mnc workers won't come over we'll just hand them out to asylum seekers after 4 months. The mnc's can just move to a cheaper country instead! A recipe for future prosperity!

Wanderer78

enricoh wrote:

The multinationals are getting it tough to convince foreign staff to relocate to dublin as apartments rents are so high. The government are keeping rents high by leasing apartments en masse for top dollar for social housing. Sure sod it if the mnc workers won't come over we'll just hand them out to asylum seekers after 4 months. A recipe for future prosperity!

Again, our accommodation mess is primarily due to encouraging a fire sector lead economy, which of course has been backed by our governments, it is ultimately the fault of both

PommieBast

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Fianna Fáil really starting to panic if this IT article is anything to go by
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/fianna-f%C3%A1il-is-drowning-in-shadows-of-fine-gael-housing-policy-party-told-1.4556407?mode=amp

Sounds like Horse, Door, and Bolted.

PommieBast

EddieN75 wrote: »

The plan is to massively increase immigration to massively grow the economy in the hope that more people will mean more tax collected.

If they want to do that, things like the outburst from the French ambassador and the dysfunctional naturalisation procedures do not help. In fact noises i hear from overseas is a lot of existing workers not returning even if it means losing their jobs, never mind new ones..

Idbatterim

tommyombomb wrote: »

God as a potential first time buyer in 12 months time, i am getting excited by the prospect of something finally happening.

Annoyed with government big time saying something needs to be done. They are the gov ffs. Need to sort their **** out or else we will have SF driving the bus fairly soon

Sorry to disappoint, but nothing will happen. Prices wont drop there is a huge extra reduction in homes now, due to covid. Nothing short of an economic crash , will reduce them in my opinion. Because government doesn't want a crash, but it does want rip off prices..

Bear in mind sf, are also the largest objectors at local authority level, to new housing... any new paths take on housing here,will be years in the making and years more to see the results, good or bad...

Idbatterim

yagan wrote: »

Forgive as it adds nothing to the discussion but this morning I woke up feeling very relieved that there is outrage.

Under the last Fianna Fail led government I was pissing in the wind warning family, friends and colleagues about the property bubble, but at least now they're all outraged by Fianna Fail's latest housing disaster. It's weird but I find it strangely comforting.

Maybe this time Fianna Fail will be dispatched entirely at the polls as even their most conservative secure home owning voter must be wondering if some vulture fund will buy the house for sale next door and move in problem tenants.

This is simply carrying on fg housing policy, the reason they were hammered last election. What are you talking about ? Forget covid, that bull**** ship has sailed. Ffg have handed sf the keys to the next government most likely. It takes years of actually wanting to address an issue, to see fruition... it's like turning a massive cruise liner... this was always coming...

Amadan Dubh

Idbatterim wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint, but nothing will happen. Prices wont drop there is a huge extra reduction in homes now, due to covid. Nothing short of an economic crash , will reduce them in my opinion. Because government doesn't want a crash, but it does want rip off prices..

Bear in mind sf, are also the largest objectors at local authority level, to new housing... any new paths take on housing here,will be years in the making and years more to see the results, good or bad...

I do agree that the best thing for the housing market would be an economic crash. Given the watery foundation on which the economy is built (ie morally devoid MNC growth and tax avoidance practices), I don't think it would be that big of a deal for us to have to be forced into a more diverse way in how we grow our economy. Losing the massive immigration stream from other EU countries in order to fill customer service roles in Big Tech subsidiaries would do wonders for the housing crisis.

cruizer101

Deleted User wrote: »

Also, completely unrelated, but if you get a mortgage over the line, i presume you set up a direct debit to pay it. Can you set the direct debit up, so that the money comes from a savings account? or does it have to be a current account?

(I keep very little in my current account and even with bills or personal loans i find it annoying to have to transfer from my savings account the day before, to pay a bill, even though i have a savings account earmarked for that specific bill).

As part of the application process the bank will look to get a direct debit mandate filled out, this will be required before they will issue funds.

I don't think most savings accounts allow direct debits but it is probably dependent on the account.
Here is one example that explicitly doesn't anyway
https://aib.ie/our-products/savings-and-deposits/online-saver/online-saver-terms-and-conditions.pdf

Seems a strange way of doing it to me, I get paid into current at end of month and have mortgage come out at start of month, so a few days later. It would only be after mortgage and other bills I would put money into savings.
As it is a regular known amount I wouldn't see the need for setting aside a separate savings account for it.

combat14

FF are going to be cremated in the next election


https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeqYTpwQ/

EddieN75

combat14 wrote: »

FF are going to be cremated in the next election


https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeqYTpwQ/

I watched the oireachtas TV clip of the debate and questions yesterday. The leader of the social democrats asked MM repeatedly when he would be taking action regarding the funds. Over and over he dodged the question or talked around it but she kept asking.

Never got a straight answer out of him. He is a phony. Same as varadkar, Donnelly, Harris , Alan Kelly, Mary Lou etc

They are all full of ****e.

Former FG voter. Never voting again. Hate them all equally

tigger123

FFG have been in the driving seat since 2011, and look at where it has gotten housing. There's a big difference in the noises coming out of FF now versus their campaign before the last election, which was basically 'we're the party that know how build houses; we'll get this done'.

SF are going to hoover up votes at the next election. Young people now cannot afford to allow FFG to continue on this path.

I'm not saying for one second that SF will solve it btw, but the next election will be a question to a certain cohort of the electorate; stick or twist.

Wanderer78

combat14 wrote: »

FF are going to be cremated in the next election


https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeqYTpwQ/

EddieN75 wrote: »

I watched the oireachtas TV clip of the debate and questions yesterday. The leader of the social democrats asked MM repeatedly when he would be taking action regarding the funds. Over and over he dodged the question or talked around it but she kept asking.

Never got a straight answer out of him. He is a phony. Same as varadkar, Donnelly, Harris , Alan Kelly, Mary Lou etc

They are all full of ****e.

Former FG voter. Never voting again. Hate them all equally

i think both parties are toast at the next ge tbh.

you re not the first former fg voter ive come across, its clearly obvious that these parties ideologies are starting to collapse

Hubertj

I hope everyone posting In here is making their thoughts known to the elected representatives as well.

The sad thing is this will take years to sort out and even if there is a change in government and policy that will take years to implement.

rightmove

On the vulture fund stuff. Alot of ppl on here said what was going to happen when rent controls came in and rtb was brought in as a kangaaroo court and it impossible to get non paying tenants out. Alot of clueless renters talking about how the renting game was a business and smallies needed to get out so it would be done "properly". As a renter and LL at the time I could see the writing on the wall. Esp paying 50% tax with the funds paying frig all.

Now the funds have started to take over......be careful what you ask for

yagan

tigger123 wrote: »

I'm not saying for one second that SF will solve it btw, but the next election will be a question to a certain cohort of the electorate; stick or twist.

There's definitely a political shift imminent.

Half of the sitting Fianna Fail TDs in the last Dail actually voted against us having a repeal referendum, but the 2/1 result placed them very much on the wrong side of the public debate.

I'd be curious to know how many of the current crop are landlords and simply can't see the problem from anyother side but their own.

Amadan Dubh

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i think both parties are toast at the next ge tbh.

you re not the first former fg voter ive come across, its clearly obvious that these parties ideologies are starting to collapse

I'm a former FG voter as well (or, technically still one I suppose) and I won't be voting for them (and I've never voted FF) even though I am in the so-called top earner bracket. The biggest issues were obviously housing and their facilitating of US style hyper capitalism/rampant globalisation as if it is necessarily a good thing despite its unsustainability and also the false promises about looking after workers, those people "who get up in the morning", failing to deliver on abolishing the austerity era USC, which should be done away with, and the failure to implement the changes by raising the level at which the top tax kicks in.

JimmyVik

rightmove wrote: »

On the vulture fund stuff. Alot of ppl on here said what was going to happen when rent controls came in and rtb was brought in as a kangaaroo court and it impossible to get non paying tenants out. Alot of clueless renters talking about how the renting game was a business and smallies needed to get out so it would be done "properly". As a renter and LL at the time I could see the writing on the wall. Esp paying 50% tax with the funds paying frig all.

Now the funds have started to take over......be careful what you ask for

Oh they have got what they asked for now.
No going back now with out even more pain.
What a sham.

EddieN75

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i think both parties are toast at the next ge tbh.

you re not the first former fg voter ive come across, its clearly obvious that these parties ideologies are starting to collapse

I admit that I fell hook line and sinker for varadkars talk about rewarding those who get up early on the morning.

Then the past year I worked throughout the pandemic going into shops all over the country to maintain and repair food production and storage machines . Ovens, freezers etc , risking my health, trying to save money to buy some sort of house and now I hear of funds buying everything

I got up early every morning Leo, worked in high risk areas throughout the pandemic and paid my taxes.

I hate them all

Wanderer78

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

I'm a former FG voter as well (or, technically still one I suppose) and I won't be voting for them (and I've never voted FF) even though I am in the so-called top earner bracket. The biggest issues were obviously housing and their facilitating of US style hyper capitalism/rampant globalisation as if it is necessarily a good thing despite its unsustainability and also the false promises about looking after workers, those people "who get up in the morning", failing to deliver on abolishing the austerity era USC, which should be done away with, and the failure to implement the changes by raising the level at which the top tax kicks in.

this whole ideology is based upon a fire sector run economy, this is clearly starting to collapse globally, the only problem is, we dont know how much damage will be done in time, but its clearly obvious, it now has serious implications for all, including the wealthy. history has shown when such conditions exist, our 'solution' normally is, conflict! we re all in trouble! there are many ideas out there that may turn this around, but our political institutions are lost, and keep defaulting to the same solution, i.e. fire sector lead

Wanderer78

EddieN75 wrote: »

I admit that I fell hook line and sinker for varadkars talk about rewarding those who get up early on the morning.

Then the past year I worked throughout the pandemic going into shops all over the country to fix food production and storage machines . Ovens, freezers etc , risking my health, trying to save money to buy some sort of house and now I hear of funds buying everything

I got up early every morning Leo, worked in high risk areas throughout the pandemic and paid my taxes.

I hate them all

you re not alone, an enormous amount of people did, politicians such as varadkar mean well, but they have failed to realise, their fundamental ideologies are actually starting to collapse