2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

MacronvFrugals

From Cian O Callaghan’s Twitter “how leasing is being marketed to funds”

C14N

cnocbui wrote: »

Wait till you get here. The big one is that no one builds single bedroom accommodation which has large spacious living areas. I have looked into it. I am having some thoughts about commissioning an architect to design me something ideal, when I get where I want to go. 4-5m ceilings in living areas, floor to ceiling glass - generally large open plan living areas. And then I realized that specing a single bedroom along with that would decimate the resale potential so I would probably have to add another 2-3 bedrooms I don't need, to preserve the value for my descendents. Ironic, really.

https://www.designswan.com/archives/playful-tropical-rainforest-house-in-queensland.html

Absolutely agree, and I think it's a problem that would need to be addressed first, along with something to make the whole task of buying and selling a lot easier for downsizers. We don't even really make any apartments designed for long-term living.

C14N

Wanderer78 wrote: »

are you sure of this now, are you sure your needs or wants and wishes will remain to be?

I'm never sure of anything in the future, but honestly it's not incredibly relevant, the best policy to persue is the one that helps the most people and not my narrow current interest. Maybe once I buy a house I'll turn into a NIMBY who will submit objections to every apartment building within 5km of me and complain about how it will bring crime and traffic and devalue my property, but that doesn't mean I should be listened to. There is a cost to people living in large houses that they don't really have any need for, and its currently borne by the rest of society. We would collectively benefit from a more nimble housing market that didn't have so many under-utilized old houses sitting on gold-mine pieces of land.

If I think of my grandparents, they still live in their house in their 80s, and the house is around 50 years old now. It's in the countryside, so it's not really having much of an impact on the housing market, but it's a 4-bedroom house, with 3 of those bedrooms basically just being storage rooms since the last of their own children moved out around 25 years ago. I've seen many, many houses close to me in south Dublin that I'd wager are in similar situations that could be providing so much more amentity to the areas they're in. I don't blame the people in them for staying, because its so hard to do anything else even if they wanted to, but I do think the state could provide more incentives for them to do so.

hmmm

Sweet.Science wrote: »

They really need to make downsizing appealing

Build one bed apartments in appealing towns and villages

We have thousands of pensioners living in 3 bed semis because there is no alternative

This. With the exception that 2-beds are ideal, the grandparents usually want room for kids in case they drop over.

I think every estate should have a mix of housing types, and we should encourage and make it easy for people to move between various types over their lives e.g. you start off renting a small apartment, then perhaps as a family you want a house, then you move to a nice easy to heat apartment as you get older and the kids move out.

We've a couple of things stopping us from doing this at the moment. Taxes and hassle of moving. Having to leave an area because the mix isn't there. We need well-run apartment blocks. There's a few places which have this mix but not enough, however they are out there.

tigger123

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

From Cian O Callaghan’s Twitter “how leasing is being marketed to funds”

I urge people to look at the rest of that thread on O'Callaghan's twitter. It would make you sick.

Amadan Dubh

EddieN75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1390277425121136641?s=20

It's all an illusion. No change is coming

Donoghue is the best friend of the institutionals. Does what he's told to do.

hmmm

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

The minister for housing looked completely shaken on IrelandAM this morning, when a morning tv show presenter is tearing you apart the penny has to drop

They're in an impossible position. Ban funds from investing in Irish property and large sections of the market will freeze - including providing social housing.

They're doing a terrible job in explaining what their strategy is to be fair. Open goals for the opposition who can pick and choose what they want to target, without caring what the impact will be. SF don't care, they'd be delighted with chaos. The SocDems haven't a clue what they are doing.

thomas 123

hmmm wrote: »

They're in an impossible position. Ban funds from investing in Irish property and large sections of the market will freeze - including providing social housing.

They're doing a terrible job in explaining what their strategy is to be fair. Open goals for the opposition who can pick and choose what they want to target, without caring what the impact will be. SF don't care, they'd be delighted with chaos. The SocDems haven't a clue what they are doing.

Funds don’t build houses.

cnocbui

Bertie had his brown paper bags; do you suppose Leo has a cushy six figure job at an 'investment' company waiting for him?

Bass Reeves

C14N wrote: »

I actually don't agree. Might sound cold but I think elderly people living in large family homes (many of which are not up to modern-day building codes) with gardens in high-demand areas that they happened to buy on the cheap 30 or 40 years ago is an inefficent use of land and should generally be discouraged by public policy instead of protected. At the same time, it should be made easy to move out and find new smaller places within their community, but both push and pull effects are important. Maybe not as big a deal in small towns or the countryside, but more in city centers and surrounding areas.

Talk about a condescending attitude. You want older people to sell there houses especially those that may not be modernised at a discount. Older houses sell at a huge discount to there building cost value. Then these same people will have to go and pay through the nose for one bedroom apartments. Maybe you will allow them to buy a two bedroom apartments. After all I had an aunt who looked after her husband who because of his old age needed a hospital type bed. Imagine that. What if these older people needed someone to stay with them.

I am of the generation where we will be empty nester in another 5ish years. When we build house we moved in to bare floors and walls. We painted, decorated and furnished it over 4-5 years. I put down footpaths, laid lawns, planted shrub beds, build the garage gave a hand to the lad that put up the stone wall, laid kerbs, fenced the site etc etc.

So now we should move out of our nice home with its external area's in pristine condition as we retire and can afford to enjoy it. We should move into an apartment with one bedroom where as we get older and the electricity goes off or the lift doesn't work we will be stranded up 3 or 4 stories. We should give an estate agent and solicitors 10-15k for this honour and maybe have an engineer insist on giving the buyers s 10&15% discount after he finds 1-2 flaws in the house.

Why so??. So that some couple in there late twenties or early thirties awho went on J1's, maybe spend 3-5 years travelling, goes out for meals every week with there friend, like to take cheap Ryanair weekends 2-3 times a year. This couple also when they got married decided they need to have a special day that cost them 30-50k and s honeymoon that cost 5-10k. They spend 10 euro each and every day on latte and lunch.

Sorry if you want it make the scarficed that our generation did. They got nothing cheap they just worked hard and had different porities

MacronvFrugals

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Talk about a condescending attitude. You want older people to seek there houses especially those that may not be modernised at a discount. Older houses sell at a huge discount to there biding cost value. Then these same people will have to go and pay through the nose for one b from apartments. Maybe you will have been allow them to buy a two bedroom apartments. After all I had an aunt who looked after her husband who because of his old age needed a hospital type bed. Imagine that. What if these older people needed someone to stay with them.

I am of the generation where we will be empty nester in another 5ish years. When we build house we moved in to bare floors and walls. We painted, decorated and furnished it over 4-5 years. I put down footpaths, laid lawns, planted shrub beds, build the garage gave a hand to the lad that put up the stone wall, laid kerbs, fenced the site etc etc.

So now we should move out of our nice home with its external area's in pristine condition as we retire and can afford to enjoy it. We should move into an apartment with one bedroom where as we get older and the electricity goes off or the lift doesn't work we will be stranded up 3 or 4 stories. We should give an estate agent and solicitors 10-15k for this honour and maybe have an engineer insist on giving the buyers s 10&15% discount after he finds 1-2 flaws in the house.

Why so??. So that some couple in there late twenties or early thirties at ho went on J1's, maybe spend 3-5 years travelling, goes out for meals every week with there friend, like to take cheap Ryanair weekends 2-3 times a year. This couple also when they got married decided they need to have a special day that cost them 30-50k and s honeymoon that cost 5-10k. They spend 10 euro each and every day on latte and lunch.

Sorry if you want it make the scarficed that generation did. They got nothing cheap they just worked hard and had different porities

You forgot the avocado toast!

cnocbui

Don't forget the bit about being made to pay extra for the privilege of living in the comfortable circumstances you worked and paid to provide yourself with.

Socialist Ireland. :rolleyes:

It better not be a one off house in the countryside, like mine, or it'll be prison for you, boyo.

cnocbui

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

You forgot the avocado toast!

Like Bass, I have spent a lifetime making my own avocado toast.

Bass Reeves

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

You forgot the avocado toast!

I did not mention the apartment blocks either where the lad next to you or above holds a rave 1-2 nights a week. Or the one's where you will be a prisoner from 6pm until 10 am even if you consider it safe to venture out then. There is a lot more I did not mention either.

Galwayhurl

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

From Cian O Callaghan’s Twitter “how leasing is being marketed to funds”

Arena Capital are Irish. Their website (housing section) is here:


http://arenacapital.ie/portfolio/property-overview/

"Government Action Plan
As Part of the Government’s action plan to help solve the crisis, the Government is offering to lease 10,000 residential properties from private investors over the next 3 years, offering 10-20 year leases under the Long Term Leasing Scheme."

Cilldara_2000

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Talk about a condescending attitude. You want older people to sell there houses especially those that may not be modernised at a discount. Older houses sell at a huge discount to there building cost value. Then these same people will have to go and pay through the nose for one bedroom apartments. Maybe you will allow them to buy a two bedroom apartments. After all I had an aunt who looked after her husband who because of his old age needed a hospital type bed. Imagine that. What if these older people needed someone to stay with them.

I am of the generation where we will be empty nester in another 5ish years. When we build house we moved in to bare floors and walls. We painted, decorated and furnished it over 4-5 years. I put down footpaths, laid lawns, planted shrub beds, build the garage gave a hand to the lad that put up the stone wall, laid kerbs, fenced the site etc etc.

So now we should move out of our nice home with its external area's in pristine condition as we retire and can afford to enjoy it. We should move into an apartment with one bedroom where as we get older and the electricity goes off or the lift doesn't work we will be stranded up 3 or 4 stories. We should give an estate agent and solicitors 10-15k for this honour and maybe have an engineer insist on giving the buyers s 10&15% discount after he finds 1-2 flaws in the house.

Why so??. So that some couple in there late twenties or early thirties awho went on J1's, maybe spend 3-5 years travelling, goes out for meals every week with there friend, like to take cheap Ryanair weekends 2-3 times a year. This couple also when they got married decided they need to have a special day that cost them 30-50k and s honeymoon that cost 5-10k. They spend 10 euro each and every day on latte and lunch.

Sorry if you want it make the scarficed that our generation did. They got nothing cheap they just worked hard and had different porities

Honey catches more flies than vinegar. I was onboard with your point until the crude generalisations of the generation who are currently completely locked out of home ownership and being forced to pay a king’s ransom on rent.

EddieN75

Galwayhurl wrote: »

Arena Capital are Irish. Their website (housing section) is here:


http://arenacapital.ie/portfolio/property-overview/

"Government Action Plan
As Part of the Government’s action plan to help solve the crisis, the Government is offering to lease 10,000 residential properties from private investors over the next 3 years, offering 10-20 year leases under the Long Term Leasing Scheme."

Deal of the century

derekgine3

Shelga wrote: »

I agree, although I think momentum is building now. I want to see mass protests and marches as soon as covid subsides a bit more, and a snap election. We are wasting our lives away paying fortunes in rent or living with parents until late 30s/40s, while they claim ignorance of investment firms buying entire estates. They take us for fools. I'm totally and utterly sick of it, and disgusted by this government. The last 3/4 months have been a disaster, on several fronts, and so many areas of life are getting worse and worse and worse.

Myself and others will be right there with you. Even if someone has benefited directly from recent property prices they are short-sighted to not see that these artificial prices are a disaster for society as a whole, if things keep going they way to are going i would not be surprised if >80% of the current 20-30 years will end up life time renters.

What's fascinating during these strange times is that the government can revamp the direction provision system with Billions of tax payers money and offer accommodation to any chancer who manages to find their way to the land of milk and honey (Ireland) and stay here for 4 months. I have nothing against helping genuine refugees but if people digged a bit deeper they would realize the vast majority coming through this system and getting free accommodation ahead of the Irish are simply chancers/welfare tourists.

My brother used to reside in Clonee and both of his neighbors received social housing within less than a year upon arrival, they were originally from Nigeria and Sudan. Last time i checked there was no war ongoing in either country between 2012-2018. I am not blaming these people, as many would take advantage of this madness if in their shoes. I am blaming the system, our youth are literally being attacked at every angle and being replaced at the same time.

There will likely be a huge brain drain after covid if this don't change.

EddieN75

derekgine3 wrote: »

Myself and others will be right there with you. Even if someone has benefited directly from recent property prices they are short-sighted to not see that these artificial prices are a disaster for society as a whole, if things keep going they way to are going i would not be surprised if >80% of the current 20-30 years will end up life time renters.

What's fascinating during these strange times is that the government can revamp the direction provision system with Billions of tax payers money and offer accommodation to any chancer who manages to find their way to the land of milk and honey (Ireland) and stay here for 4 months. I have nothing against helping genuine refugees but if people digged a bit deeper they would realize the vast majority coming through this system and getting free accommodation ahead of the Irish are simply chancers/welfare tourists.

My brother used to reside in Clonee and both of his neighbors received social housing within less than a year upon arrival, they were originally from Nigeria and Sudan. Last time i checked there was no war ongoing in either country between 2012-2018. I am not blaming these people, as many would take advantage of this madness if in their shoes. I am blaming the system, our youth are literally being attacked at every angle and being replaced at the same time.

There will likely be a huge brain drain after covid if this don't change.

Young people shouldn't feel like they have to leave their country. Remove the failing politicians instead.

Vote, protest, civil disobedience etc

derekgine3

EddieN75 wrote: »

Young people shouldn't feel like they have to leave their country. Remove the failing politicians instead.

Vote, protest, civil disobedience etc

I absolute agree with you but unfortunately it seems almost conditioned into them to emigrate.

What will it take to get this sorted once and for all, 100k marching in Dublin outside the dail?

Sign me up

EddieN75

derekgine3 wrote: »

I absolute agree with you but unfortunately it seems almost conditioned into them to emigrate.

What will it take to get this sorted once and for all, 100k marching in Dublin outside the dail?

Sign me up

No reason why it couldn't be double that number. People either care or they don't. Fairly sickening handing over 50% of wages to a German or Spanish investment fund every month.

I would attend too

C14N

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Talk about a condescending attitude. You want older people to sell there houses especially those that may not be modernised at a discount. Older houses sell at a huge discount to there building cost value. Then these same people will have to go and pay through the nose for one bedroom apartments. Maybe you will allow them to buy a two bedroom apartments. After all I had an aunt who looked after her husband who because of his old age needed a hospital type bed. Imagine that. What if these older people needed someone to stay with them.

I am of the generation where we will be empty nester in another 5ish years. When we build house we moved in to bare floors and walls. We painted, decorated and furnished it over 4-5 years. I put down footpaths, laid lawns, planted shrub beds, build the garage gave a hand to the lad that put up the stone wall, laid kerbs, fenced the site etc etc.

So now we should move out of our nice home with its external area's in pristine condition as we retire and can afford to enjoy it. We should move into an apartment with one bedroom where as we get older and the electricity goes off or the lift doesn't work we will be stranded up 3 or 4 stories. We should give an estate agent and solicitors 10-15k for this honour and maybe have an engineer insist on giving the buyers s 10&15% discount after he finds 1-2 flaws in the house.

Why so??. So that some couple in there late twenties or early thirties awho went on J1's, maybe spend 3-5 years travelling, goes out for meals every week with there friend, like to take cheap Ryanair weekends 2-3 times a year. This couple also when they got married decided they need to have a special day that cost them 30-50k and s honeymoon that cost 5-10k. They spend 10 euro each and every day on latte and lunch.

Sorry if you want it make the scarficed that our generation did. They got nothing cheap they just worked hard and had different porities

What a load of drivel. I can't believe you have the gall to call me condescending and then go on with a bunch of unsubstantiated stereotyping nonsense about some imaginary wasteful youths. You don't know me, and clearly don't know many other people under 30 either if you think we are having a hard time buying houses because we're spending all our income on expensive food and holidays.

Honestly would have actually responded to the rest of it if not for that, but all I'm going to say instead is that these words you're deciding to put into the mouth of the strawman you've constructed are nothing close to what I was saying at all.

cnocbui wrote: »

Don't forget the bit about being made to pay extra for the privilege of living in the comfortable circumstances you worked and paid to provide yourself with.

Socialist Ireland. :rolleyes:

It better not be a one off house in the countryside, like mine, or it'll be prison for you, boyo.

I assure you I'm far from a socialist. Also completely ignoring that I already said living in the countryside is a completely different story.

cgcsb

derekgine3 wrote: »

I absolute agree with you but unfortunately it seems almost conditioned into them to emigrate.

What will it take to get this sorted once and for all, 100k marching in Dublin outside the dail?

Sign me up

The Water Charge / Dennis O'Brien support scheme was toppled this way. Compared to the housing crisis that was a relatively minor issue. The same again could also topple the housing policy. As it stands emigrating will be the only option for many in the post covid era.

Taylor365

The older generation like Bass live in some sort of economic time bubble.

Houses are 10x yearly income.

40 years ago, they were 3-4x.

Yadda yadda interest rates, but they only went down, wages went up. Over 20 years, the debt had basically vanished through inflation.

The same should happen to us eventually, but probably over 40-50 years instead.

Cilldara_2000

cgcsb wrote: »

The Water Charge / Dennis O'Brien support scheme was toppled this way. Compared to the housing crisis that was a relatively minor issue. The same again could also topple the housing policy. As it stands emigrating will be the only option for many in the post covid era.

These were all alphabet soup supporters. They have no skin in this game.

standardg60

derekgine3 wrote: »

Myself and others will be right there with you. Even if someone has benefited directly from recent property prices they are short-sighted to not see that these artificial prices are a disaster for society as a whole, if things keep going they way to are going i would not be surprised if >80% of the current 20-30 years will end up life time renters.

What's fascinating during these strange times is that the government can revamp the direction provision system with Billions of tax payers money and offer accommodation to any chancer who manages to find their way to the land of milk and honey (Ireland) and stay here for 4 months. I have nothing against helping genuine refugees but if people digged a bit deeper they would realize the vast majority coming through this system and getting free accommodation ahead of the Irish are simply chancers/welfare tourists.

My brother used to reside in Clonee and both of his neighbors received social housing within less than a year upon arrival, they were originally from Nigeria and Sudan. Last time i checked there was no war ongoing in either country between 2012-2018. I am not blaming these people, as many would take advantage of this madness if in their shoes. I am blaming the system, our youth are literally being attacked at every angle and being replaced at the same time.

There will likely be a huge brain drain after covid if this don't change.

It's certain Irish people who should be in these centres imo, might make them think twice about placing further burdens on the taxpayer.

Wanderer78

Taylor365 wrote: »

The older generation like Bass live in some sort of economic time bubble.

Houses are 10x yearly income.

40 years ago, they were 3-4x.

Yadda yadda interest rates, but they only went down, wages went up. Over 20 years, the debt had basically vanished through inflation.

The same should happen to us eventually, but probably over 40-50 years instead.

comparisons between different generations cannot be made, as economic situations and conditions are/were dramatically different, its like comparing different different

yer man!

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Talk about a condescending attitude. You want older people to sell there houses especially those that may not be modernised at a discount. Older houses sell at a huge discount to there building cost value. Then these same people will have to go and pay through the nose for one bedroom apartments. Maybe you will allow them to buy a two bedroom apartments. After all I had an aunt who looked after her husband who because of his old age needed a hospital type bed. Imagine that. What if these older people needed someone to stay with them.

I am of the generation where we will be empty nester in another 5ish years. When we build house we moved in to bare floors and walls. We painted, decorated and furnished it over 4-5 years. I put down footpaths, laid lawns, planted shrub beds, build the garage gave a hand to the lad that put up the stone wall, laid kerbs, fenced the site etc etc.

So now we should move out of our nice home with its external area's in pristine condition as we retire and can afford to enjoy it. We should move into an apartment with one bedroom where as we get older and the electricity goes off or the lift doesn't work we will be stranded up 3 or 4 stories. We should give an estate agent and solicitors 10-15k for this honour and maybe have an engineer insist on giving the buyers s 10&15% discount after he finds 1-2 flaws in the house.

Why so??. So that some couple in there late twenties or early thirties awho went on J1's, maybe spend 3-5 years travelling, goes out for meals every week with there friend, like to take cheap Ryanair weekends 2-3 times a year. This couple also when they got married decided they need to have a special day that cost them 30-50k and s honeymoon that cost 5-10k. They spend 10 euro each and every day on latte and lunch.

Sorry if you want it make the scarficed that our generation did. They got nothing cheap they just worked hard and had different porities

I think most people would not wish to drive any older person out of their home. It's more about removing the barriers to downsize if they wish to. I'm in The Netherlands at the moment. Here they have really lovely apartment developments all over the cities and suburbs that are reserved for over 55's. They're large apartments with very cheap rent and a pile of services within the development like gyms, laundry, concierge, etc.

Not everyone's cup of tea but they seem to be popular, older people that can't really drive anymore and want to be less isolated have an easy way of transitioning to a top class building that's well maintained and you're guaranteed not to be surrounded by students or young families. Here we have what's called K.K (Kosten Koper). The buyer pays for the transfer of the property. The seller only needs to pay for the estate agent fee and off you go.

It's about giving choice and removing the barriers to actually avail of them. I know older people in my family that have downsized after losing their partner so they could manage the property better. I also know people that will want to die in their homes, that's fine. Choices

Oh and there also seems to be relatively easy access to bridging loans to allow for older people to self build somewhere else. All of this is possible in Ireland, it's only policy.

keoclassic

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Talk about a condescending attitude. You want older people to sell there houses especially those that may not be modernised at a discount. Older houses sell at a huge discount to there building cost value. Then these same people will have to go and pay through the nose for one bedroom apartments. Maybe you will allow them to buy a two bedroom apartments. After all I had an aunt who looked after her husband who because of his old age needed a hospital type bed. Imagine that. What if these older people needed someone to stay with them.

I am of the generation where we will be empty nester in another 5ish years. When we build house we moved in to bare floors and walls. We painted, decorated and furnished it over 4-5 years. I put down footpaths, laid lawns, planted shrub beds, build the garage gave a hand to the lad that put up the stone wall, laid kerbs, fenced the site etc etc.

So now we should move out of our nice home with its external area's in pristine condition as we retire and can afford to enjoy it. We should move into an apartment with one bedroom where as we get older and the electricity goes off or the lift doesn't work we will be stranded up 3 or 4 stories. We should give an estate agent and solicitors 10-15k for this honour and maybe have an engineer insist on giving the buyers s 10&15% discount after he finds 1-2 flaws in the house.

Why so??. So that some couple in there late twenties or early thirties awho went on J1's, maybe spend 3-5 years travelling, goes out for meals every week with there friend, like to take cheap Ryanair weekends 2-3 times a year. This couple also when they got married decided they need to have a special day that cost them 30-50k and s honeymoon that cost 5-10k. They spend 10 euro each and every day on latte and lunch.

Sorry if you want it make the scarficed that our generation did. They got nothing cheap they just worked hard and had different porities

I agree with your post. I really do. But alot of red tape has come into being since. I want to build a house too......... 1km from my home...... And do it piece by piece. But the council won't give me planning and say that I don't have a local need!!! My father bought a fully serviced site from the council and built his house over many years. It's a fine house now but it was always worked on. I have someone willing yo sell me land but I'm not "allowed" to build. Your generation did not have that!

I wouldn't want my dad to downsize in a million years because its his home and he has invested his life into it. I love to bring my kids home to see their cousins all together in our family home. Anyone that trys to say that people have to downsize is cold hearted and only view the house as a unit..... Not a home.

AdamD

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Talk about a condescending attitude. You want older people to sell there houses especially those that may not be modernised at a discount. Older houses sell at a huge discount to there building cost value. Then these same people will have to go and pay through the nose for one bedroom apartments. Maybe you will allow them to buy a two bedroom apartments. After all I had an aunt who looked after her husband who because of his old age needed a hospital type bed. Imagine that. What if these older people needed someone to stay with them.

I am of the generation where we will be empty nester in another 5ish years. When we build house we moved in to bare floors and walls. We painted, decorated and furnished it over 4-5 years. I put down footpaths, laid lawns, planted shrub beds, build the garage gave a hand to the lad that put up the stone wall, laid kerbs, fenced the site etc etc.

So now we should move out of our nice home with its external area's in pristine condition as we retire and can afford to enjoy it. We should move into an apartment with one bedroom where as we get older and the electricity goes off or the lift doesn't work we will be stranded up 3 or 4 stories. We should give an estate agent and solicitors 10-15k for this honour and maybe have an engineer insist on giving the buyers s 10&15% discount after he finds 1-2 flaws in the house.

Why so??. So that some couple in there late twenties or early thirties awho went on J1's, maybe spend 3-5 years travelling, goes out for meals every week with there friend, like to take cheap Ryanair weekends 2-3 times a year. This couple also when they got married decided they need to have a special day that cost them 30-50k and s honeymoon that cost 5-10k. They spend 10 euro each and every day on latte and lunch.

Sorry if you want it make the scarficed that our generation did. They got nothing cheap they just worked hard and had different porities

Gives out about a condescending attitude - then proceeds to write the most condescending post I've seen on the thread.