2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

BredonWimsey

DataDude wrote: »

Nail on the head.

At risk of making myself completely identifiable to my friends who follow this forum:

As well as my professional circle of very high earners, we have another circle of friends on my partner's side who would have a more typical income profile. In my circle, there are two home owners out of 8/9 individuals. In my partners circle we are the only ones who who are not.

They fit precisely into your description above and often ask us "so, when do you think you'll be able to buy". I'd usually deflect not wanting to cast any negative sentiment on their recent purchase, but when pushed I might say something like

"oh well we're just not sure now is the right time, Dublin seemed to hit peak affordability in late 2018 and I guess I have some concerns about where the economy goes from here and particularly any tax hikes coming down the road"

I may as well be speaking German with the looks I get. Not that our approach is "better" (in fact if things keep on going this way, perhaps we are the fools) but for them it has always been a case of "I need to save X amount, I immediately run to the bank and take as big a mortgage as I possibly can and buy whatever that will get me". The idea that people who can buy, don't and are happy to wait and see is completely foreign to them.

The luxury of being able to buy is directly correlated with not feeling the need to buy.

And to add to that, I often read on various property forums comments like "ah well if you can afford to pay €1m you won't mind paying €1.2m, money is not an issue". From all my experiences, that is complete nonsense.

actually I think you have hit the nail on the head and seems a very accurate assessment - but I also think - the mentality to buy is not as strong as either in a geographical or generational context, people are not as obsessed with THE LAND THE LAND THE LAND as prior generations - they are happy to rent, no attachments, can pick up and go and see you later. people have also lived abroad and know its better value to buy property in other countries. i mean what you spend for a house in ireland is ridiculous compared to buying abroad- its just not good value for money- ireland will be seeing a mass exodus when it opens back up after COVID for sure.

Villa05

DataDude wrote:

I may as well be speaking German with the looks I get. Not that our approach is "better" (in fact if things keep on going this way, perhaps we are the fools) but for them it has always been a case of "I need to save X amount, I immediately run to the bank and take as big a mortgage as I possibly can and buy whatever that will get me". The idea that people who can buy, don't and are happy to wait and see is completely foreign to them.

Media influence,
Control supply
Push up rents/prices
Pressure purchase

Rinse Repeat untill the bubble pops

BredonWimsey

Villa05 wrote: »

Media influence,
Control supply
Push up rents/prices
Pressure purchase

Rinse Repeat untill the bubble pops

POP goes the weasel

Marius34

schmittel wrote: »

Why do you think it is "surprisingly low"? What reason would you make you expect it might be higher?

There are hardly any of the reports stating that Dublin has high vacancy rate, where there are reports that states in opposite. Here is official report from European Commission:

"Mobilising the stock of vacant housing is unlikely
to alleviate the housing supply shortage. According
to GeoDirectory (9) data, in the second quarter of
2019, the average vacancy rate in Ireland was
relatively low, at 4.8%, with rates ranging from 1.2%
in Dublin to 15.2% in Leitrim. The vacancy rate was
low where demand for housing was most acute, such
as in the greater Dublin area (10)
, while high vacancy
rates were registered in rural counties with low
housing demand. The reutilisation of long-term
vacant properties in counties such as Cork or Galway
(with vacancy rates of respectively 4.1% and 6.6%),
where housing demand is increasing, may mitigate
the supply shortage. However, it is unlikely to
alleviate the supply shortage in the greater Dublin
area"

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/economy-finance/eb061_en.pdf

hometruths

DataDude wrote: »

Nail on the head.

At risk of making myself completely identifiable to my friends who follow this forum:

As well as my professional circle of very high earners, we have another circle of friends on my partner's side who would have a more typical income profile. In my circle, there are two home owners out of 8/9 individuals. In my partners circle we are the only ones who who are not.

They fit precisely into your description above and often ask us "so, when do you think you'll be able to buy". I'd usually deflect not wanting to cast any negative sentiment on their recent purchase, but when pushed I might say something like

"oh well we're just not sure now is the right time, Dublin seemed to hit peak affordability in late 2018 and I guess I have some concerns about where the economy goes from here and particularly any tax hikes coming down the road"

I may as well be speaking German with the looks I get. Not that our approach is "better" (in fact if things keep on going this way, perhaps we are the fools) but for them it has always been a case of "I need to save X amount, I immediately run to the bank and take as big a mortgage as I possibly can and buy whatever that will get me". The idea that people who can buy, don't and are happy to wait and see is completely foreign to them.

The luxury of being able to buy is directly correlated with not feeling the need to buy.

And to add to that, I often read on various property forums comments like "ah well if you can afford to pay €1m you won't mind paying €1.2m, money is not an issue". From all my experiences, that is complete nonsense.

Exactly what you say is also why we see markets turn from the top down. Nobody feels pressured into buying in this price bracket.

hometruths

Marius34 wrote: »

There are hardly any of the reports stating that Dublin has high vacancy rate, where there are reports that states in opposite. Here is official report from European Commission:

"Mobilising the stock of vacant housing is unlikely
to alleviate the housing supply shortage. According
to GeoDirectory (9) data, in the second quarter of
2019, the average vacancy rate in Ireland was
relatively low, at 4.8%, with rates ranging from 1.2%
in Dublin to 15.2% in Leitrim. The vacancy rate was
low where demand for housing was most acute, such
as in the greater Dublin area (10)
, while high vacancy
rates were registered in rural counties with low
housing demand. The reutilisation of long-term
vacant properties in counties such as Cork or Galway
(with vacancy rates of respectively 4.1% and 6.6%),
where housing demand is increasing, may mitigate
the supply shortage. However, it is unlikely to
alleviate the supply shortage in the greater Dublin
area"

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/economy-finance/eb061_en.pdf

Do you think 1.3% is surprisingly low?

Marius34

schmittel wrote: »

Do you think 1.3% is surprisingly low?

Surprising or not surprising. But yes its low.

MacronvFrugals

Julien Mercile from UCD's Geary institute researches the incestuous relationship between Ireland's media and the property industry


He also spoke at lengths to the Public Accounts Committee a few years back


The Political Economy and Media Coverage of the European Economic Crisis : The Case of Ireland

https://www.bookdepository.com/Political-Economy-Media-Coverage-European-Economic-Crisis-Julien-Mercille/9780415721097?ref=grid-view&qid=1611506361588&sr=1-2

BredonWimsey

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Julien Mercile from UCD's Geary institute researches the incestuous relationship between Ireland's media and the property industry


He also spoke at lengths to the Public Accounts Committee a few years back


The Political Economy and Media Coverage of the European Economic Crisis : The Case of Ireland

https://www.bookdepository.com/Political-Economy-Media-Coverage-European-Economic-Crisis-Julien-Mercille/9780415721097?ref=grid-view&qid=1611506361588&sr=1-2

Look at this - them trying to deter people from buying houses at less than market value - doesnt fit the agenda does it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/buying-mum-s-house-at-less-than-market-value-could-cause-tax-headaches-1.4466596

Pelezico

BredonWimsey wrote: »

Look at this - them trying to deter people from buying houses at less than market value - doesnt fit the agenda does it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/buying-mum-s-house-at-less-than-market-value-could-cause-tax-headaches-1.4466596

Mother can sell at market price and gift daughter 50k.

BredonWimsey

Pelezico wrote: »

Mother can sell at market price and gift daughter 50k.

yeah exactly thats an option but selling below market value is an option also and the advise is like oh this is really difficult- people do it all the time

PokeHerKing

schmittel wrote: »

You'd be surprised how many posters on here don't get it.

Theres plenty of people on varying salary points unwilling to buy at certain price points. You and the other poster appear to be saying the only people who are aware or interested in market value are high earners which is complete ballix IMHO and sounds pretty elitist.

But it also doesn't take a genius to know the more money you have the more options there are available to you and if you don't fear being priced out then you can afford to wait.

Again nothing clairvoyant to that kind of reasoning, its fairly obvious to most people with any semblance of cop-on.

BredonWimsey

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Theres plenty of people on varying salary points unwilling to buy at certain price points. You and the other poster appear to be saying the only people who are aware or interested in market value are high earners which is complete ballix IMHO and sounds pretty elitist.

But it also doesn't take a genius to know the more money you have the more options there are available to you and if you don't fear being priced out then you can afford to wait.

Again nothing clairvoyant to that kind of reasoning, its fairly obvious to most people with any semblance of cop-on.

well said

MacronvFrugals

Mortgage rules raise doubts over shared equity housing scheme

The country’s main retail banks may be precluded from participating in the government’s proposed €75 million shared equity housing scheme under the Central Bank of Ireland’s existing mortgage rules, the Business Post has learned.

https://www.businesspost.ie/financial-services/mortgage-rules-raise-doubts-over-shared-equity-housing-scheme-33bd7418


Apologies if this was posted last week

Villa05

BredonWimsey wrote:

Look at this - them trying to deter people from buying houses at less than market value - doesnt fit the agenda does it.

So a family go out of their way to help house disadvantaged family members.

The state itself would have an obligation to help house these people.

The state then places multiple obstacles, penalties and taxes that prevent Famiy members from helping each other where the state has abysmally failed.

The state then gives tax breaks long term leases, anti competitive monopolistic practices to the wealthiest institutions to buy up property and promote inflation in prices and rents


Mod's, Hubertj and anyone else
This is not a conspiracy theory. This is Fact

BredonWimsey

Villa05 wrote: »

So a family go out of their way to help house disadvantaged family members.

The state itself would have an obligation to help house these people.

The state then places multiple obstacles, penalties and taxes that prevent Famiy members from helping each other where the state has abysmally failed.

The state then gives tax breaks long term leases, anti competitive monopolistic practices to the wealthiest institutions to buy up property and promote inflation in prices and rents


Mod's, Hubertj and anyone else
This is not a conspiracy theory. This is Fact

Yes Yes Yes and here we have it ladies and gentleman the curtain is being opened! A Joke.

DataDude

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Theres plenty of people on varying salary points unwilling to buy at certain price points. You and the other poster appear to be saying the only people who are aware or interested in market value are high earners which is complete ballix IMHO and sounds pretty elitist.

But it also doesn't take a genius to know the more money you have the more options there are available to you and if you don't fear being priced out then you can afford to wait.

Again nothing clairvoyant to that kind of reasoning, its fairly obvious to most people with any semblance of cop-on.

I think in the context of commentary on property prices, it’s fair to say that someone spending 40% of their income on rent is likely to feel more pressured to buy that someone spending 10%.

Unfortunately that can lead to those who can least afford it, buying at worst times. Which is exactly what happened in the last crash when those in the upper ranges seemed to realise the party was over a few months before everyone else.

I can’t see how it’s elitist or unhelpful to make that parallel when we’re currently heading into a period of economic uncertainty and the media commentary is all about those who ‘normally wouldn’t be able to save have saved loads and are looking to pile that money into a scare number of properties leading to inflated asking prices’.

hometruths

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Theres plenty of people on varying salary points unwilling to buy at certain price points. You and the other poster appear to be saying the only people who are aware or interested in market value are high earners which is complete ballix IMHO and sounds pretty elitist.

But it also doesn't take a genius to know the more money you have the more options there are available to you and if you don't fear being priced out then you can afford to wait.

Again nothing clairvoyant to that kind of reasoning, its fairly obvious to most people with any semblance of cop-on.

Nothing elitist or clairvoyant about it. I posted it in direct response to:

Villa05 wrote: »

Interesting, I would have thought that an exodus from Dublin would be led and dominated by people priced out of the market. When you have the highest earners doing it we could have a very interesting few years ahead of us.

Villa05 has more cop on than most IMO and he seemed surprised.

There are plenty of other posters on here who are underestimating how price sensitive your average 800k+ buyer is, and many who are relying on these higher earners to continue to prop up the top end of the SCD semi D market.

I get the sense a lot of existing owners in this market are banking on the greater fool theory. For sure somebody is going to be the greatest fool, but I think it is naive to bank on the younger generation of high earners being that fool.

hometruths

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Mortgage rules raise doubts over shared equity housing scheme



https://www.businesspost.ie/financial-services/mortgage-rules-raise-doubts-over-shared-equity-housing-scheme-33bd7418


Apologies if this was posted last week

That's interesting, sadly don't have a sub so cannot read the entire. Kind of hard to argue that it is not just a ruse to circumvent the CBI rules in this context!

Timing belt

Zenify wrote: »

Sure I even believe their are paid posters here by some of the property interests. How crazy is that....? Some of the pro property posters here must honestly spend hours each day on here. Just look at some of the names and how often they post. That's how skeptical you can become.

The pay is not great in fairness.... we are thinking of going on strike for better pay :D:D:D

BredonWimsey

Timing belt wrote: »

The pay is not great in fairness.... we are thinking of going on strike for better pay :D:D:D

haha :pac:

PokeHerKing

schmittel wrote: »

Nothing elitist or clairvoyant about it. I posted it in direct response to:



Villa05 has more cop on than most IMO and he seemed surprised.

There are plenty of other posters on here who are underestimating how price sensitive your average 800k+ buyer is, and many who are relying on these higher earners to continue to prop up the top end of the SCD semi D market.

I get the sense a lot of existing owners in this market are banking on the greater fool theory. For sure somebody is going to be the greatest fool, but I think it is naive to bank on the younger generation of high earners being that fool.

Apologies if I misinterpreted your posts but they read to me like you were saying high earners are more clued into value than average or below average earners. A statement i wouldn't agree with.

If your intention was solely to point out money makes money and high earners have more options available to them then I completely agree. But would argue its like saying fire burns, you don't need to point it out to anyone other than children.

MacronvFrugals

I hadn't realized the EU had a vote that classified us as a tax haven this week

Fianna Fáil MEP Barry Andrews says he backed a European Parliament vote to class Ireland as a tax haven by mistake. Asked why he’d backed the resolution the Dublin MEP told the Irish Independent that he had intended to abstain on the vote and will seek to correct the record of the vote he cast on Thursday.

Irish MEPs were split over ‘tax haven’ accusations levelled by the EU.

Ireland was named as a tax haven in a resolution adopted by the European Parliament on Thursday, which also called on the bloc to introduce minimum “effective" tax rates.

Indo link - https://www.msn.com/en-ie/money/news/fianna-f%C3%A1il-mep-says-vote-to-class-ireland-as-tax-haven-was-a-mistake/ar-BB1d0dO2

Hubertj

Villa05 wrote: »

So a family go out of their way to help house disadvantaged family members.

The state itself would have an obligation to help house these people.

The state then places multiple obstacles, penalties and taxes that prevent Famiy members from helping each other where the state has abysmally failed.

The state then gives tax breaks long term leases, anti competitive monopolistic practices to the wealthiest institutions to buy up property and promote inflation in prices and rents


Mod's, Hubertj and anyone else
This is not a conspiracy theory. This is Fact

You’re trying to pull inheritance tax into this now? Wow

hometruths

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Apologies if I misinterpreted your posts but they read to me like you were saying high earners are more clued into value than average or below average earners. A statement i wouldn't agree with.

If your intention was solely to point out money makes money and high earners have more options available to them then I completely agree. But would argue its like saying fire burns, you don't need to point it out to anyone other than children.

I get that its obvious to you but one i thing ive learnt feom this forum is never over estimate what is blindingly obvious to another poster

Hubertj

BredonWimsey wrote: »

how is it a conspiracy to state that tax laws are affecting a disadvantaged person erroneously.


or is it your perspective that any person who sees something from a different angle than yourself must be wearing a tin foil hat.


the whole point of these community forums is to have opinions and to explore ideas and to look at things outside your bubble otherwise you may as well talk to everyone in your bubble all day long and never be exposed to another point of view.



but maybe you just want to see things from your own point of view.

Regarding inheritance tax or capital acquisitions tax or whatever you want to call it, the bands are clear to all and apply to all in the same way. They do not consider the type of asset or gift being given and they can’t. To assert they are constructed to benefit the property market is ridiculous. Many people have to sell property, take out mortgages etc to discharge tax liability.
When my father died, my brother lived with him. He had to sell the house he lived in to discharge his tax liability because he was unable to afford the mortgage. This has nothing to do with the property market. I know it is sh*t and I saw it first hand.

BredonWimsey

Hubertj wrote: »

Regarding inheritance tax or capital acquisitions tax or whatever you want to call it, the bands are clear to all and apply to all in the same way. They do not consider the type of asset or gift being given and they can’t. To assert they are constructed to benefit the property market is ridiculous. Many people have to sell property, take out mortgages etc to discharge tax liability.
When my father died, my brother lived with him. He had to sell the house he lived in to discharge his tax liability because he was unable to afford the mortgage. This has nothing to do with the property market. I know it is sh*t and I saw it first hand.

ok thanks i see your point. maybe we should just throw all the tea in the harbour

MacronvFrugals

Rents ‘set to rise again’ as increasing numbers of landlords sell up

Residential estate expert at Sherry FitzGerald says a third of its sales are through private landlords exiting the market

“The rental position is still quite precarious. We still see this very high volume of exits of private investors from the marketplace, even in the last 12 months, because of the very high tax take on rental income.”

Figures produced by the Residential Tenancies Board show that the total number of landlords associated with registered homes declined from 212,000 in 2012 to 169,000 in 2019.

https://www.businesspost.ie/houses/rents-set-to-rise-again-as-increasing-numbers-of-landlords-sell-up-a9def7e0

fago

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Rents ‘set to rise again’ as increasing numbers of landlords sell up

Residential estate expert at Sherry FitzGerald says a third of its sales are through private landlords exiting the market




https://www.businesspost.ie/houses/rents-set-to-rise-again-as-increasing-numbers-of-landlords-sell-up-a9def7e0

These properties don't disappear into the ether so surely they help the apt/starter home market.
I read all of the 2021 predictions/shills and don't recall any of the same agents mentioning supply being helped by the increase in rentals for sale.
I've seen one auctioneer in a local paper predict flat for 2021, but then 4% in a national paper.
Even within Ireland there's a good few micro markets, in my opinion you re best off understand where you are buying what sells, what struggles and watch the PPR.

Smouse156

fago wrote: »

These properties don't disappear into the ether so surely they help the apt/starter home market.
I read all of the 2021 predictions/shills and don't recall any of the same agents mentioning supply being helped by the increase in rentals for sale.
I've seen one auctioneer in a local paper predict flat for 2021, but then 4% in a national paper.
Even within Ireland there's a good few micro markets, in my opinion you re best off understand where you are buying what sells, what struggles and watch the PPR.

Yeah just trying to spin a story to keep people paying inflated rents. Many of these sales are to new landlords...they never seem to mention that! It’s like saying “home owners are exiting the market as they’re selling their houses”

Graham

Smouse156 wrote: »

Many of these sales are to new landlords...they never seem to mention that!

I strongly suspect the reason it's not mentioned is because it's not happening.

The number of private tenancies has been decreasing by 5000 - 8000 a year for the last few years.

hometruths

Graham wrote: »

I strongly suspect the reason it's not mentioned is because it's not happening.

The number of private tenancies has been decreasing by 5000 - 8000 a year for the last few years.

Is that nationally? Any idea of figure for Dublin?

Villa05

Hubertj wrote:

You’re trying to pull inheritance tax into this now? Wow

Nope, but that particular case touched a nerve
There plenty in my earlier post that you replied to without bringing anything else into it.

TheW1zard

Was chatting to a mate who's an estate agent. Says he has a house for sale, 6 bidders all over asking price. No one has been in the house as showings aren't permitted. Mad!

Graham

schmittel wrote: »

Is that nationally? Any idea of figure for Dublin?

Nationally and haven't looked for Dublin specific.

I expect we'll see a record year for landlords leaving as soon as restrictions are lifted and notice periods are seen out.

Not good for renters.

hometruths

Graham wrote: »

Nationally and haven't looked for Dublin specific.

I expect we'll see a record year for landlords leaving as soon as restrictions are lifted and notice periods are seen out.

Not good for renters.

I agree. I suspect the volume will be large enough that govt has another problem on their hands here, knowing there is a record number of tenancies about to be terminated in one go. Very difficult for them to handle the fallout.

Villa05

Graham wrote:

The number of private tenancies has been decreasing by 5000 - 8000 a year for the last few years.

Is there anything that can be done legally where one operator is subject to 50%+ tax while another competitor pays close to 0

Hubertj

Villa05 wrote: »

Nope, but that particular case touched a nerve
There plenty in my earlier post that you replied to without bringing anything else into it.

You commented on an article specifically relating to inheritance tax. It “touched a nerve” with me too but I know it’s unrelated to the property market so irrelevant to whatever point you were trying to make.

Graham

Villa05 wrote: »

Is there anything that can be done legally where one operator is subject to 50%+ tax while another competitor pays close to 0

I can't see what to be honest, I'm fairly certain the legality of the REITs was fairly closely examined beforehand.

I think it's fair to say most private landlords aren't leaving the market because of the tax treatment of REITs anyway. More the imbalance in the landlord/tenants rights and to a lesser extent the now counterproductive RPZs.

Timing belt

Graham wrote: »

I can't see what to be honest, I'm fairly certain the legality of the REITs was fairly closely examined beforehand.

I think it's fair to say most private landlords aren't leaving the market because of the tax treatment of REITs anyway. More the imbalance in the landlord/tenants rights and to a lesser extent the now counterproductive RPZs.

I would be surprised if there is a drop in the overall no of rental properties as a lot of the new builds will be adding to the rental Stock. I think what we are seeing is a shift away from BTL investors to Institutional investors.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

TheW1zard wrote: »

Was chatting to a mate who's an estate agent. Says he has a house for sale, 6 bidders all over asking price. No one has been in the house as showings aren't permitted. Mad!

Is this in Dublin?

Graham

Timing belt wrote: »

I would be surprised if there is a drop in the overall no of rental properties as a lot of the new builds will be adding to the rental Stock. I think what we are seeing is a shift away from BTL investors to Institutional investors.

I've no doubt REITs are taking up some of the slack from departing private landlords and reducing the reliance on private landlords was one of the aims of the tax treatment.

Problem 1 is private landlords are leaving faster than their rental properties are being replaced (by REITs).

Problem 2 is the REITS are obviously concentrating on the most profitable cities.

Problem 3 is the REITs are concentrating on the higher end of the market.

TheW1zard

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

Is this in Dublin?

Yes! DLR

PropQueries

Graham wrote: »

I strongly suspect the reason it's not mentioned is because it's not happening.

The number of private tenancies has been decreasing by 5000 - 8000 a year for the last few years.

Number of registered tenancies Q3 2017: 341,000
Number of registered landlords Q3 2017: 176,000

Number of registered tenancies Q3 2020: 332,000
Number of registered landlords Q3 2020: 166,000

Given that there’s been very little (if any) media news stories of queues of people looking to rent over the past 3 years, I would reckon it’s more due to more and more renters buying homes over the past few years and exiting the rental market.

The relatively small decline in the number of landlords is probably due to them now selling due to being finally able to sell and pay back those Celtic tiger loans than the “unfair” tax system.

Also, the decline in the number of registered landlords is not as correlated with the decline in the number of available rental properties as in the past due to the rise of the more professional landlord who own several rental properties instead of one or two.

The rise of AirBnB over the past number of years also probably accounts for a significant number in the “decline” in the number of registered landlords IMO

Link to RTB here: https://www.rtb.ie/research/rtb-registration-statistics

Villa05

Graham wrote:

I think it's fair to say most private landlords aren't leaving the market because of the tax treatment of REITs anyway. More the imbalance in the landlord/tenants rights and to a lesser extent the now counterproductive RPZs.

The article does mention tax as a factor. Do you think the perceived landlord/tennant imbalance would be cushioned if reits and private landlords had tax equality ie both pay 25%

That would be significant gain for the private landlord

jay0109

Graham wrote: »

I've no doubt REITs are taking up some of the slack from departing private landlords and reducing the reliance on private landlords was one of the aims of the tax treatment.

Problem 1 is private landlords are leaving faster than their rental properties are being replaced (by REITs).

Problem 2 is the REITS are obviously concentrating on the most profitable cities.

Problem 3 is the REITs are concentrating on the higher end of the market.

Problem 4 is the REITs are setting a floor on rents at much higher levels than previously existed

A lot of people were crying out for professional landlords to come in and 'modernise' the Irish rental scene.

Hows that working out!

Graham

Villa05 wrote: »

The article does mention tax as a factor. Do you think the perceived landlord/tennant imbalance would be cushioned if reits and private landlords had tax equality ie both pay 25%

That would be significant gain for the private landlord

I'm sure some landlords thinking about exiting the market would be incentivised to stay if tax rates were adjusted in their favour.

Better solution may be to address the imbalance.

Graham

PropQueries wrote: »

Also, the decline in the number of registered landlords is not as correlated with the decline in the number of available rental properties as in the past due to the rise of the more professional landlord who own several rental properties instead of one or two.

Figures were for registered private tenancies, not number of landlords.

PropQueries

Graham wrote: »

I'm sure some landlords thinking about exiting the market would be incentivised to stay if tax rates were adjusted in their favour.

Better solution may be to address the imbalance.

But what could they invest the proceeds in to get a similar return and also pay less tax?

Also, how many landlords are selling because they bought between 2012 and 2014 and can now sell without paying CGT?

There should be a lot more landlords selling up and leaving the market than there currently are based on those purchases between 2012 and 2014 alone which IMO would mean the returns of being a landlord in Ireland at the moment must be exceptional.

Graham

PropQueries wrote: »

But what could they invest the proceeds in to get a similar return and also pay less tax?

Given the volumes of landlords leaving the markets that doesn't appear to be a significant enough motivator to stay in the market.

I assume it will matter even less to any landlord that's spent the guts of the last year providing private COVID support to tenant/s unable to pay rent.