2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

fliball123

thefridge2006 wrote: »

Maybe if you take your head out of the sand and stop trying to be some argumentative keyboard hard man and listen to Props once in a while you might learn something.

Props isn't afraid to speak his mind and take big punts on his predictions. Remarkably he's been on the money a lot more than you and deserves some respect in here.

I really hope you're not like this in person and its just a weird internet fantasy

PS. please don't report like you have all the other times

The problem is that Props mind wonders like Walter Mitty on steroids, I agree he brings the odd well backed up comment and to be honest I do get a laugh out of some of the outrageous opinions he/she has, but the comments he makes based on fact are few and far between and things like 75% drops coming soon kind of give him/her away of what they want to happen. But it has not panned out.

Yurt2

cnocbui wrote: »

Of 192 cities in Europe, Dublin ranks 118th in affordability, so 61% of those cities have less affordable housing. https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/region_rankings.jsp?title=2021&region=150

Ireland has the 6th most affordable housing in terms of price to income ratio out of 33 countries: https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-ratio-of-housing-worldwide/

Why don't you provide some links disagreeing with these ones?

Did you seriously just link to Statista and Numbeo? Do yourself a favour and never step into an economics class and try to present these sources as 'proof' of anything.

cnocbui

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Could you post the link to that graph?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/722946/house-price-index-in-real-terms-in-eu-28/

Mervyn Skidmore

I'm a blow in to this thread but those house price comparisons with other countries, do they compare like with like? Are some absolute sheds in Ireland considered to be "houses"?

Yurt2

cnocbui wrote: »

https://www.statista.com/statistics/722946/house-price-index-in-real-terms-in-eu-28/

Statista...

Cyrus

<SNIP>

Mod Note

please leave the moderation to the mods.

Thanks

fliball123

Yurt! wrote: »

He said houses are not expensive in Ireland. That's a nonsense.


UN housing rapporteur reports Ireland as an unaffordable housing market. CSO name-checks a an international piece of research for middle income earners that shows all our major housing markets bar Waterford and Limerick as "seriously unaffordable" (and I can assure you, there is only a certain strata of people in those two who are middle income and much more below).


http://www.housingagency.ie/data-hub/house-price-income-ratio

They are not that expensive in Ireland he has given you the graph, he has also just sent you on two links to further the argument, just going to copy his full post here.

Of 192 cities in Europe, Dublin ranks 118th in affordability, so 61% of those cities have less affordable housing. https://www.numbeo.com/property-inve...021&region=150

Ireland has the 6th most affordable housing in terms of price to income ratio out of 33 countries: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ing-worldwide/

Why don't you provide some links disagreeing with these ones?

I have also painstakingly gone over how Ireland property is not over priced when you take a couple on the median wage and what the average price of a house in the country is and using the current lending ratios and deposit ratios. Yet because Dublin (like every other major and/or capital city in the world) people have to pay a premium then all of a sudden Ireland is expensive.

Yurt2

fliball123 wrote: »

They are not that expensive in Ireland he has given you the graph, he has also just sent you on two links to further the argument, just going to copy his full post here.

Of 192 cities in Europe, Dublin ranks 118th in affordability, so 61% of those cities have less affordable housing. https://www.numbeo.com/property-inve...021&region=150

Ireland has the 6th most affordable housing in terms of price to income ratio out of 33 countries: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ing-worldwide/

Why don't you provide some links disagreeing with these ones?

I have also painstakingly gone over how Ireland property is not over priced when you take a couple on the median wage and what the average price of a house in the country is and using the current lending ratios and deposit ratios. Yet because Dublin (like every other major and/or capital city in the world) people have to pay a premium then all of a sudden Ireland is expensive.

Going to Ask Jeeves and finding a link that would have you failed in a first year economics class isn't painstaking.

As per cnocbui. It's difficult to take anyone seriously who is linking to Statista and Numbeo

hometruths

fliball123 wrote: »

They are not that expensive in Ireland he has given you the graph, he has also just sent you on two links to further the argument, just going to copy his full post here.

Are you sure you understand what that graph is telling you?

MacronvFrugals

cnocbui wrote: »

Of 192 cities in Europe, Dublin ranks 118th in affordability, so 61% of those cities have less affordable housing. https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/region_rankings.jsp?title=2021&region=150

Ireland has the 6th most affordable housing in terms of price to income ratio out of 33 countries: https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-ratio-of-housing-worldwide/

Why don't you provide some links disagreeing with these ones?

The Numbeo one is using average salary which is a poor measurement, normally sociologists use median to avoid skews and distortions from a fewer high earners




Average income is 47k
Median income is 35k

Median Household income is 47k

Open to correction on these points though

cnocbui

<SNIP>

Yurt2

cnocbui wrote: »

http://www.competitiveness.ie/publications/2016/study-to-examine-the-affordability-of-irish-housing.pdf

To truly excell at being a supercillious twat, you first have to learn to not make the basic mistake of tripping yourself up. Not suggesting you are of course, but just in case you ever decide to engage in such a pursuit as a full time career.

What are you highlighting in that report? First, It's from 2016, relies on the Demographia data source I linked from the housing agency report which now rates most markets in the country as 'seriously unaffordable' in 2020. As per UN rapporteur on housing for Ireland nationally also.

<SNIP>

Cyrus

thefridge2006 wrote: »

Maybe if you take your head out of the sand and stop trying to be some argumentative keyboard hard man and listen to Props once in a while you might learn something.

Props isn't afraid to speak his mind and take big punts on his predictions. Remarkably he's been on the money a lot more than you and deserves some respect in here.

I really hope you're not like this in person and its just a weird internet fantasy

PS. please don't report like you have all the other times

Do you have anything to add yourself or are you just a little cheerleader for anyone forecasting doom and ruination ?

As I said we will see very soon if props is on the money, something will have to happen soon if a 75 percent price drop is to manifest itself.

Marius34

Yurt! wrote: »

Statista...

Statista is not a perfect source, but it's gives us way more reliable information, than many media links, blogs, opinions posted here, with their own interpretation.

So you are welcome to share your information, where Ireland stands with affordability worldwide?

Yurt2

Marius34 wrote: »

Statista is not a perfect source, but it's gives us way more reliable information, than many media links, blogs, opinions posted here, with their own interpretation.

So you are welcome to share your information, where Ireland stands with affordability worldwide?

I've worked in places where you'd get shredded for citing from sites like that presenting information to clients and management.

I've already linked to the housing agency on affordability, and cited the UN rapporteur's take on afforability on housing. We're unaffordable. Particularly where it matters and in proximity to where it matters; i.e. where jobs, economic opportunity, education are.

We can point to a bungalow in Roscommon where a median salaried couple or person could buy, or a house in the bush in rural Queensland, Australia where a median salaried Aussie could buy. There's a good reason for that, and it's not evidence of anything because there's functionally no economy in those places and they exist on transfers.

Anyone who's trying to make the argument that housing in Ireland is not expensive in-the-round, and with particular reference to proximity to economic opportunity is not even living on planet earth, never mind Ireland.

TheSheriff

Yurt! wrote: »

Did you seriously just link to Statista and Numbeo? Do yourself a favour and never step into an economics class and try to present these sources as 'proof' of anything.

This thread primarily consists of people posting news articles/click-bait articles and foreshadowing the world ending.

At one point, nearly a year ago it was proclaimed house prices were on the brink of collapse as a hot chicken roll in Drogheda had doubled in price since 2008.

I really wouldn't come here looking for serious economic commentary......

fliball123

Yurt! wrote: »

Going to Ask Jeeves and finding a link that would have you failed in a first year economics class isn't painstaking.

As per cnocbui. It's difficult to take anyone seriously who is linking to Statista and Numbeo

so when taking the median wage of the country and the average house price and hooking in the current 3.5 salary and 10% deposit. A simple look on myhome or daft will reveal that there are nearly half the property on myhome currently available for sale at a price the median wage earners can buy given the current borrowing rules. Yet you still maintain that prices in Ireland are affordable?

AdamD

You've gone off the deep end if you think housing isn't expensive in Ireland

Yurt2

fliball123 wrote: »

so when taking the median wage of the country and the average house price and hooking in the current 3.5 salary and 10% deposit. A simple look on myhome or daft will reveal that there are nearly half the property on myhome currently available for sale at a price the median wage earners can buy given the current borrowing rules. Yet you still maintain that prices in Ireland are affordable?

Median full-time earnings are approx 35k (Fact checked by Irish Times Jan 2020, Aidan Regan @ UCD) - 122.5k mortgage.



Say hello Bundoran, Co. Donegal.

fliball123

AdamD wrote: »

You've gone off the deep end if you think housing isn't expensive in Ireland

All housing everywhere in Ireland is not expensive. Dublin yes but then show me one other Country in the world where its main city where the bulk of jobs, infrastructure and population is based does not maintain a premium for someone to live there either by renting or by buying.

Timing belt

Yurt! wrote: »

Median full-time earnings are approx 35k (Fact checked by Irish Times Jan 2020, Aidan Regan @ UCD) - 122.5k mortgage.



Say hello Bundoran, Co. Donegal.

Is this the median wage of people that are privately renting as this will be the cohort for FTB? The data is all there on the CSO which I assume you will accept as a reliable data source.

fliball123

Timing belt wrote: »

Is this the median wage of people that are privately renting as this will be the cohort for FTB? The data is all there on the CSO which I assume you will accept as a reliable data source.

Yurt is Also completely ignoring that most people buy as a couple so his 122.5k is doubled straight away not to mention you need a 10% deposit so all of a sudden that amount goes up to about 270k say hello to about 600 properties available for under 275k mark in Dublin alone not even going into the bordering counties. You could probably get a McMansion for that price in Bundoran

Yurt2

fliball123 wrote: »

Yurt is Also completely ignoring that most people buy as a couple so his 122.5k is doubled straight away not to mention you need a 10% deposit so all of a sudden that amount goes up to about 270k say hello to about 600 properties available for under 275k mark in Dublin alone not even going into the bordering counties.

Yowzer, a whole 600 units for a city of a million +. One for every median salaried couple in the audience. We've cracked it.

Meanwhile...

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/prices-in-republic-35-above-eu-average-cso-figures-show-1.4493864?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Feconomy%2Fprices-in-republic-35-above-eu-average-cso-figures-show-1.4493864


That median salaried couple are having a whale of a time in the private rental sector cobbling together a deposit for one of those 600 units with our goods and services prices 35% above the EU average. We're looking good folks...all is well

This is the very demographic getting absolutely choked in Dublin. I doubt very many of them agree with your sunny-side-up intepretation and shoulder shrugging.

Timing belt

Yurt! wrote: »

Yowzer, a whole 600 units for a city of a million +. One for every median salaried couple in the audience. We've cracked it.

Meanwhile...

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/prices-in-republic-35-above-eu-average-cso-figures-show-1.4493864?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Feconomy%2Fprices-in-republic-35-above-eu-average-cso-figures-show-1.4493864


That median salaried couple are having a whale of a time in the private rental sector cobbling together a deposit for one of those 600 units with our prices 35% above the EU average. We're looking good folks...all is well

The median salary for Dublin city was 52,344 for someone that was renting in the private sector in 2016 (Source CSO)

Seeing as you are so particular with your Stats lets compare apples with apples and not oranges

Yurt2

Timing belt wrote: »

The median salary for Dublin city was 52,344 for someone that was renting in the private sector in 2016 (Source CSO)

Seeing as you are so particular with your Stats lets compare apples with apples and not oranges

I'd like to see the sauce for that one.


https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-gpii/geographicalprofilesofincomeinireland2016/housing/


CSO statbank for this appears to published by household not individual and has the median gross nationally by household in private rental @ 41,695 median.

So if you'd have a stat suggesting that the median salaried worker in private tenure in Dublin is 52k I'd like to see it, because I think that's an extraordinary figure

fliball123

Yurt! wrote: »

Yowzer, a whole 600 units for a city of a million +. One for every median salaried couple in the audience. We've cracked it.

Meanwhile...

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/prices-in-republic-35-above-eu-average-cso-figures-show-1.4493864?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Feconomy%2Fprices-in-republic-35-above-eu-average-cso-figures-show-1.4493864


That median salaried couple are having a whale of a time in the private rental sector cobbling together a deposit for one of those 600 units with our prices 35% above the EU average. We're looking good folks...all is well

This is the very demographic getting absolutely choked in Dublin. I doubt very many of them agree with your sunny-side-up intepretation and shoulder shrugging.

How does your population vs accommodation compare to within other major cities in the world I believe the problem is not just isolated to Dublin/Ireland you only have to look at London/England or Paris/France to see the same issues. Just for some other facts the counties bordering Dublin Meath has 215, Wicklow has 188, Kildare 163 properties for sale for under 275k

The problem your also not addressing or what your actually pointing out is the chronic lack of supply country wide. so Dublin/Kildare/Meath and Wicklow have about 1/10th of the stock countrywide available for sale on myhome for under 275k. So I think the issue is more under supply than over priced. Some areas are over priced but then again areas that are desirable will require a premium this is not something that only happens in Ireland.

I agree that people are getting fleeced on rents but this again is a by product of lack of supply.

jill_valentine

I think it's worth pointing out that many, if not most, of properties on Daft right now in Dublin and adjacent counties appear to be either sites, derelicts or BidX1 style stuff, and so may as well not exist to most FTBs.

So as paltry as those entry level numbers look, even then they're actually misleadingly inflated.

On the subject of private renters, Unite have a report out stating private rent is costing up to 68% of people's wages.

To argue Ireland's housing is not actually expensive by every meaningful metric is silly. We don't have the homelessness level we do simply because a load of people collectively decided out of the blue a few years ago they'd rather sleep in a tent than pay rent. We have the homelessness crisis we do because when we could have been clearing literally the entire unhoused figure down to zero, we built nearly ten thousand useless student/airbnb bedrooms in the last three years alone instead. We did that for profit - because those rooms cost more to stay in.

As for the suggestion that really our housing is unaffordable because it's so cheap, that would be incoherent wordplay.

Hubertj

Dublin City Council faces six-year wait for start of housing construction on its sites
via The Irish Times
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/dublin-city-council-faces-six-year-wait-for-start-of-housing-construction-on-its-sites-1.4495344

Some interesting points but hardly surprising. And some people think the issue is easy to fix. Easier to just blame the gubberment

combat14

Almost half of apartments at Kennedy Wilson's 22-storey Capital Dock scheme are vacant

US property giant gets average rent of €2,126 in Dublin

The company generates significantly more rent on average from its residential properties here than it does in US locations such as Los Angeles.

https://m.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/us-property-giant-gets-average-rent-of-2126-in-dublin-40133442.html

wow shocked at how high the vacancy rates are ... surely this should be driving rents down

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

Yurt is Also completely ignoring that most people buy as a couple so his 122.5k is doubled straight away

Are there any statistics on mortgages? How many were drawn down by single applicants, how many by couples?
How many by more than one applicant, not related?

enricoh

All asylum seeker families to get their own door accommodation under new rules, should help the state keep rents and prices high as they hoover up properties.
Can Ireland become the destination of choice with these new rules?!

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiigFodHRwczovL3d3dy5pbmRlcGVuZGVudC5pZS9pcmlzaC1uZXdzL3BvbGl0aWNzL2FzeWx1bS1zZWVrZXJzLXdpbGwtZ2V0LWtleXMtdG8tdGhlaXItb3duLWhvbWVzLWFuZC1jYW4td29yay11bmRlci1uZXctcG9saWN5LTQwMTMzMjczLmh0bWzSAYoBaHR0cHM6Ly9hbXAuaW5kZXBlbmRlbnQuaWUvaXJpc2gtbmV3cy9wb2xpdGljcy9hc3lsdW0tc2Vla2Vycy13aWxsLWdldC1rZXlzLXRvLXRoZWlyLW93bi1ob21lcy1hbmQtY2FuLXdvcmstdW5kZXItbmV3LXBvbGljeS00MDEzMzI3My5odG1s?hl=en-IE&gl=IE&ceid=IE%3Aen

Ursabear

fliball123 wrote: »

Yurt is Also completely ignoring that most people buy as a couple so his 122.5k is doubled straight away not to mention you need a 10% deposit so all of a sudden that amount goes up to about 270k say hello to about 600 properties available for under 275k mark in Dublin alone not even going into the bordering counties. You could probably get a McMansion for that price in Bundoran

I really get peeved when this point gets used. One of the reasons more people buy as a couple is because so many singles are essentially locked out of the market. This is not a good thing as times have changed and less people are coupling up then before and less couples stay together then in the past.

hometruths

I've heard some real nonsense on this thread but the idea that housing is not expensive in Ireland sets a new standard for blinkered delusion.

In the last year we've had some bizarre arguments to justify current prices and potential for future rises, most of which ignore everything that is going on under our noses.

Now we have posters arguing that property is actually affordable in Ireland! It's amazing and reading these posts made me think of the stages of a bubble:



Houses in Ireland are cheap is firmly in the Delusion - New Paradigm ball park!

Pelezico

schmittel wrote: »

I've heard some real nonsense on this thread but the idea that housing is not expensive in Ireland sets a new standard for blinkered delusion.

In the last year we've had some bizarre arguments to justify current prices and potential for future rises, most of which ignore everything that is going on under our noses.

Now we have posters arguing that property is actually affordable in Ireland! It's amazing and reading these posts made me think of the stages of a bubble:



Houses in Ireland are cheap is firmly in the Delusion - New Paradigm ball park!

House prices are off the scale. Expect big tax hikes and a major downturn as the consequences of lockdown and loss of economic activity must be faced.

I would not line to have a big mortgage.

Marius34

Yurt! wrote: »

I've worked in places where you'd get shredded for citing from sites like that presenting information to clients and management.

I've already linked to the housing agency on affordability, and cited the UN rapporteur's take on afforability on housing. We're unaffordable. Particularly where it matters and in proximity to where it matters; i.e. where jobs, economic opportunity, education are.

We can point to a bungalow in Roscommon where a median salaried couple or person could buy, or a house in the bush in rural Queensland, Australia where a median salaried Aussie could buy. There's a good reason for that, and it's not evidence of anything because there's functionally no economy in those places and they exist on transfers.

Anyone who's trying to make the argument that housing in Ireland is not expensive in-the-round, and with particular reference to proximity to economic opportunity is not even living on planet earth, never mind Ireland.

Read my question again: "where Ireland stands with affordability worldwide?" You answering wrong question.
Article doesn't say how Ireland compares with other countries.

I'm well aware that there are many cases Statica or Wikipedia should not be used as a source. But it has it's own place. There is a place where you can get shredded for using Statica or Wikipedia, but it's fine to use paid propaganda, since it's static. I rather rely on some data for analysis, than some propaganda, or someone's crazy opinion.

SmokyMo

combat14 wrote: »

Almost half of apartments at Kennedy Wilson's 22-storey Capital Dock scheme are vacant

US property giant gets average rent of €2,126 in Dublin

The company generates significantly more rent on average from its residential properties here than it does in US locations such as Los Angeles.

https://m.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/us-property-giant-gets-average-rent-of-2126-in-dublin-40133442.html

wow shocked at how high the vacancy rates are ... surely this should be driving rents down

They are owned by funds. Rent income is not a priority for them, merely side effect.

johnnyskeleton

Ursabear wrote: »

I really get peeved when this point gets used. One of the reasons more people buy as a couple is because so many singles are essentially locked out of the market. This is not a good thing as times have changed and less people are coupling up then before and less couples stay together then in the past.

Also not all couples are dual income, and if they are but have kids they will likely also have huge childcare costs to come out of the second income.

Hubertj

schmittel wrote: »

I've heard some real nonsense on this thread but the idea that housing is not expensive in Ireland sets a new standard for blinkered delusion.

In the last year we've had some bizarre arguments to justify current prices and potential for future rises, most of which ignore everything that is going on under our noses.

Now we have posters arguing that property is actually affordable in Ireland! It's amazing and reading these posts made me think of the stages of a bubble:



Houses in Ireland are cheap is firmly in the Delusion - New Paradigm ball park!

I don’t think anyone on this thread can claim they haven’t been delusional in some of their contributions.

Except me.

fliball123

Ursabear wrote: »

I really get peeved when this point gets used. One of the reasons more people buy as a couple is because so many singles are essentially locked out of the market. This is not a good thing as times have changed and less people are coupling up then before and less couples stay together then in the past.

But this is how it is within most first world cities in the world. I didnt invent it I did not say it was right but to say that it is the norm for a single person to buy is wrong. Usually its a couple. Have you any stats on that less people are coupling up be interested to see if its true? I used the point and sorry if you got peeved but this is how the market is functioning now.

fliball123

schmittel wrote: »

I've heard some real nonsense on this thread but the idea that housing is not expensive in Ireland sets a new standard for blinkered delusion.

In the last year we've had some bizarre arguments to justify current prices and potential for future rises, most of which ignore everything that is going on under our noses.

Now we have posters arguing that property is actually affordable in Ireland! It's amazing and reading these posts made me think of the stages of a bubble:



Houses in Ireland are cheap is firmly in the Delusion - New Paradigm ball park!

Too many moving parts in the statement. Is Ireland affordable.

Anyone earning a decent salary and with a good deposit yes its affordable.

Anyone buying outside the major cities and surrounds. Yes its affordable

Anyone looking to buy in Dublin with out a decent salary - No its not affordable but there are other areas in the country that you probably could.

I am still at odds as to why people take Dublin prices and then extrapolate it throughout the rest of the country and then use it as an excuse that Ireland's property is too expensive.

As I have said before and I will say it again Dublin is a very desirable place to live and like every other major city in the world you must pay a premium if your competing with others who would like to live there too.

I could hazard a bet that a high % of Americans if they had the cash they would buy a penthouse appartment in Manhattan overlooking central park or into a mansion there in Bel Air but the premiums on these places are mindblowing. Not saying Dublin is either of these places or even in their ball park but then again either is the price of Dublin's property in comparison.

fliball123

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Also not all couples are dual income, and if they are but have kids they will likely also have huge childcare costs to come out of the second income.

Well if a couple decides to have a kid then they have to pay the bill and creche fees are not for ever either. But as someone who is paying creche fees currently they are ridiculously high and it comes out of money after tax which I think should be changed. But can I blame anyone else on the expense I brought on myself and the wife when I had the kids??..NO I cant as we made that decision knowing the other expenses and bills we have to pay.

Also tax credits and allowances are interchangeable between couples so you can be slightly better off if one of you drop out of working and look after the nippers.

awec

I didn't see this posted yet, but any former AirBnB landlords thinking they'll be able to flout the rules post-covid are in for a surprise.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/nowhere-to-hide-for-airbnb-hosts-as-revenue-tightens-the-tax-net-1.4493074

"Owners looking to let out properties on Airbnb must now hand over their personal tax details to the global home sharing platform, as Revenue steps up its oversight of the business.

While the accommodation portal has been sharing information on Irish host earnings with Revenue for some years now, a recent legislative change in Ireland means Airbnb is now also asking hosts for their PPS (personal public service) numbers, as well as the local property ID of the property being let out."


I think this is likely to lead to a combination of increased rental supply and increased supply for sale. Likely to have a larger impact on the rental market as I reckon the majority of it is small city apartments.

Cyrus

fliball123 wrote: »

Too many moving parts in the statement. Is Ireland affordable.

Anyone earning a decent salary and with a good deposit yes its affordable.

Anyone buying outside the major cities and surrounds. Yes its affordable

Anyone looking to buy in Dublin with out a decent salary - No its not affordable but there are other areas in the country that you probably could.

I am still at odds as to why people take Dublin prices and then extrapolate it throughout the rest of the country and then use it as an excuse that Ireland's property is too expensive.

As I have said before and I will say it again Dublin is a very desirable place to live and like every other major city in the world you must pay a premium if your competing with others who would like to live there too.

I could hazard a bet that a high % of Americans if they had the cash they would buy a penthouse appartment in Manhattan overlooking central park or into a mansion there in Bel Air but the premiums on these places are mindblowing. Not saying Dublin is either of these places or even in their ball park but then again either is the price of Dublin's property in comparison.

if people on the MEDIAN FT salary cant buy a 4 bed in ballsbridge as single person property is too expensive.

Am i doing it right?

fliball123

Cyrus wrote: »

if people on the MEDIAN FT salary cant buy a 4 bed in ballsbridge as single person property is too expensive.

Am i doing it right?

Not sure what your trying to say here?

Galwayhurl

combat14 wrote: »

Almost half of apartments at Kennedy Wilson's 22-storey Capital Dock scheme are vacant

US property giant gets average rent of €2,126 in Dublin

The company generates significantly more rent on average from its residential properties here than it does in US locations such as Los Angeles.

https://m.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/us-property-giant-gets-average-rent-of-2126-in-dublin-40133442.html

wow shocked at how high the vacancy rates are ... surely this should be driving rents down

awec wrote: »

I didn't see this posted yet, but any former AirBnB landlords thinking they'll be able to flout the rules post-covid are in for a surprise.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/nowhere-to-hide-for-airbnb-hosts-as-revenue-tightens-the-tax-net-1.4493074

"Owners looking to let out properties on Airbnb must now hand over their personal tax details to the global home sharing platform, as Revenue steps up its oversight of the business.

While the accommodation portal has been sharing information on Irish host earnings with Revenue for some years now, a recent legislative change in Ireland means Airbnb is now also asking hosts for their PPS (personal public service) numbers, as well as the local property ID of the property being let out."


I think this is likely to lead to a combination of increased rental supply and increased supply for sale. Likely to have a larger impact on the rental market as I reckon the majority of it is small city apartments.

Right here we have 2 of the main reasons for our rental crisis. Vacant properties owned by REITs/Pension Funds and vacant properties owned by AirBnB users.

Tackling these 2 issues through

1. a vacant property tax
2. actually enforcing the laws that were brought in re AirBnB last year

would give us more housing stock than most people realise.

It's good to see Revenue making moves. Now let's tackle the likes of IRES and Irish Life.

The answers are literally staring the government in the face.

Pelezico

Cyrus wrote: »

if people on the MEDIAN FT salary cant buy a 4 bed in ballsbridge as single person property is too expensive.

Am i doing it right?

Not really..I should not have to tell you that

Cyrus

fliball123 wrote: »

Not sure what your trying to say here?

i am agreeing with you, basically if you were to listen to some posters everyone should be able to afford everything, and if they cant property is over priced.

Cyrus

Pelezico wrote: »

Not really..I should not have to tell you that

you dont need to tell me anything :pac:

DataDude

Cyrus wrote: »

if people on the MEDIAN FT salary cant buy a 4 bed in ballsbridge as single person property is too expensive.

Am i doing it right?

One thing that would be very interesting would be a distribution of household incomes layered over a distribution of house prices. I think that would be the most interesting dataset to assess affordability. Most analysis seem to focus solely on mean or median of both.

Household income distribution is easy to get, house values not so much. A few years ago I had looked at doing it but I think I came to the conclusion that you'd have to use the price register (for say last two years) as your house values distribution. Problem with that it is assumes that houses at all price points turnover at the same level of frequency. Don't know if that's true but instinctually I would say it doesn't.

That data would give you your definitive view on "affordability". I'd love to see if my gut instinct is true in that a huge percentage of people over 40 own homes that are not justified by their household income and therefore the distribution of house prices would be shifted much further to the right than a (household income *3.5(LTI))/90%(deposit) distribution. If anyone has an analysis like this to hand - please do share!

EDIT - Just did some back of cigarette box calculations (there are assumptions in this but interesting anyway). Gov.ie data says 14.1% of households earn over €100k per annum. On CBI rules €389k is the affordability for someone earning 100k. 19.4% of houses over the last year sold for over €389k. 1.9% of households earn over €200k. Equivalent figure is house price of €778k. 3.2% of houses sold for over this threshold over the last year.

Marius34

Galwayhurl wrote: »

Right here we have 2 of the main reasons for our rental crisis. Vacant properties owned by REITs/Pension Funds and vacant properties owned by AirBnB users.

Tackling these 2 issues through

1. a vacant property tax
2. actually enforcing the laws that were brought in re AirBnB last year

would give us more housing stock than most people realise.

It's good to see Revenue making moves. Now let's tackle the likes of IRES and Irish Life.

The answers are literally staring the government in the face.

What that would give, why it's more that people think? Looking at this thread, people think there are higher vacancy than any reports/data suggest.
There were no high vacancy in those properties, outside Covid times. Obviously it may be fairly high now, but it will mostly solve on it's own when all the lockdowns ends.