Say something bad about universally revered person?

Tomaldo

The King of Thailand and Alex Higgins

Tomaldo

Balmed Out wrote: »

An awful lot of rock stars of the David Bowie, led zeppelin, elvis, rolling stones, marvin gaye generations who took advantage of a groupie culture. No proof against any but enough accusations that id tend to think that many were guilty of statutory rape. The only one that comes to mind that are reviled for it is jerry lee lewis who married his underage cousin if memory serves.

Gary Glitter rightly vilified. Elvis 'met' his future wife when she was 14, he was about 10 years older. Was that a legal relationship.

tipptom

Tony EH wrote: »

So Ali was a "coward" for refusing to go to a war he didn't believe in, in which his country basically "involved" themselves in another nation's affairs and dragged it down into a quagmire of disaster for over a decade.

That's not being a "coward". That's was being smart. He didn't want any part in a disastrous war propagated by shithouses in power who were using young men to further their own goals.

Vietnam was none of America's business. It was even less Ali's business and he was right to stand against it, like many others of his generation.

Ali refused on religeous grounds

Communism was a very real threat to lots of people at the time and there was a big fear at the time that if Vietnam was turned over that it was going to be unstoppable
The like of Ali and Farrakhan would have been the first to complain if they were to be turned out to the fields for the collective in the event of communism taking over.

French Toast

Season 2 wrote: »

I'm a better singer than Bob Dylan and I can't sing.

The brother went through a phase of listening to him.

A nasal whine. Very average.

iamstop

Anyone said Winston Churchill yet?

Bengal Famine.


Also John Lennon is was the peace loving hippy to his kids and women in his life that you might first expect.

Tony EH

tipptom wrote: »

Ali refused on religeous grounds

Communism was a very real threat to lots of people at the time and there was a big fear at the time that if Vietnam was turned over that it was going to be unstoppable
The like of Ali and Farrakhan would have been the first to complain if they were to be turned out to the fields for the collective in the event of communism taking over.

Bollocks.

America dragged itself into a region it had no right being in and subjected a nation (which had just come out of a long struggle against French colonial ambitions) to the worst period it had experienced in a completely unnecessary war, in which it got its arse kicked and didn't alter the final outcome one bit. In fact, American involvement made things worse, with her bombing of Cambodia next door and its use of chemical weapons.

It had no business whatsoever even being there and Muhammad Ali, for all his faults, was entirely correct to see through the bullshit.

There was no "cowardice" on his behalf. It was sense. The sense many others had too in opposing US ambitions in the area. Vietnam is rightly remembered as the tragic and criminal waste of lives that it was and the people who opposed it were correct.

Thelonious Monk

People calling Ali a racist. Black people were treated like dirt at the time, especially in the south where he was from, of course he was bloody weary of white people. Treated like second class citizens just a couple of generations from slavery and then they're sending them all off as canon fodder to a war that no one wants to be in.
People seem to just love calling black people racists these days for one reason or another.

Tony EH

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People calling Ali a racist. Black people were treated like dirt at the time, especially in the south where he was from, of course he was bloody weary of white people. Treated like second class citizens just a couple of generations from slavery and then they're sending them all off as canon fodder to a war that no one wants to be in.
People seem to just love calling black people racists these days for one reason or another.

That may be the case. But it doesn't excuse his own racist rhetoric.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

There seems to be some embellishment of that story over the years. Did he really come out with a zinger like that at 18 years old? At that moment of his life? I don't believe it. The story is powerful enough without bits of fiction added.

Quite likely not the first time he heard it.

Feenix

tipptom wrote: »

Ali refused on religeous grounds

Communism was a very real threat to lots of people at the time and there was a big fear at the time that if Vietnam was turned over that it was going to be unstoppable
The like of Ali and Farrakhan would have been the first to complain if they were to be turned out to the fields for the collective in the event of communism taking over.

Communism taking over? Even the Yanks stopped spouting that ****e around 1960.

Feenix

JeffreyEpspeen wrote: »

Jon Walters was turfed out of Blackburn as a youth team player for stealing from his teammates.

The universally revered Jon Walters?

tipptom

tipptom wrote: »

They were worse cowards in my opinion,using daddys political influence to come up with sudden "ear" problems,at least Ali was somewhat honest about why he refused to go

Loved Ali as a boxer and a lot of his musings,just think he gets a free pass on this when he was just using cues from racist homophopic murderers whom he got involved with who had a history of draft dodging going back to ww2

You volunteered for any wars yourself?

Feenix

Feenix wrote: »

Communism taking over? Even the Yanks stopped spouting that ****e around 1960.

Well I am sure the Soviet Union had plans for Europe. What was happening in Asia though was up to Asia.

tipptom

Tony EH wrote: »

Bollocks.

America dragged itself into a region it had no right being in and subjected a nation (which had just come out of a long struggle against French colonial ambitions) to the worst period it had experienced in a completely unnecessary war, in which it got its arse kicked and didn't alter the final outcome one bit. In fact, American involvement made things worse, with her bombing of Cambodia next door and its use of chemical weapons.

It had no business whatsoever even being there and Muhammad Ali, for all his faults, was entirely correct to see through the bullshit.

There was no "cowardice" on his behalf. It was sense. The sense many others had too in opposing US ambitions in the area. Vietnam is rightly remembered as the tragic and criminal waste of lives that it was and the people who opposed it were correct.

Ali wasnt walking around the univeritys holding up the red book,he wasnt going over to Vietnam to stand on top of a tank,he didnt give a sh*t about vietnam or America or any noble objection,
He refused because he was hooked up with a racist murdering organisation who refused to serve in ww2 and who Ali told Sugar Ray Robinson they would kill him when Sugar told him to sign up.
CO objectors dont refuse to serve,they usually are given jobs of a humanitarian nature,he refused even that
There was and are plenty of black people who think he was a coward while his fellow black men fought for their country and many died while he used his money he earned in America to avoid jail for five years while still race baiting with pearls like,"violence should be visited on any white or black person in a relationship".

tipptom

Deleted User wrote: »

You volunteered for any wars yourself?

No,not lately,yourself?

tipptom

tipptom wrote: »

There was and are plenty of black people who think he was a coward while his fellow black men fought for their country and many died while he used his money he earned in America to avoid jail for five years while still race baiting with pearls like,"violence should be visited on any white or black person in a relationship".

Not sure about that, maybe some black people thought that. Doubt it was the majority. African Americans were treated very poorly in the services.


Punishment and casualties - Vietnam


African American troops were punished more harshly and more frequently than White troops. A Defense Department study released in 1972 found that Black troops received 34.3% of court-martials, 25.5% of nonjudicial punishments, and comprised 58% of prisoners at Long Bình Jail, a military prison.[4] It further remarked, "No command or installation...is entirely free from the effects of systematic discrimination against minority servicemen."[8] Black troops were also almost twice as likely as White troops to receive a punitive discharge.[8] In 1972, African-Americans received more than one-fifth of the bad-conduct discharges and nearly one-third of the dishonorable discharges.[5]



In the Vietnam War, African American troops initially had a much higher casualty rate than other ethnicities,[4] though this declined somewhat throughout the course of the conflict. In 1965, nearly a quarter of troop casualties were African American. By 1967, it had fallen to 12.7%.[3] In total, 7,243 African Americans died during the Vietnam War, representing 12.4% of total casualties.[13] The refusal, by some southern communities, to bury dead African American soldiers in unsegregated cemeteries was met with outrage by African American communities.[5]

Johnny BGood

Have to mention the “Irish sport star”, what would we be without him?
Universally loved, particularly by the yanks who must think that all Irish people are brash, egotistical and proper whiskey drinkers!
Still bemuses me that he still has supporters in Ireland with the crimes he’s committed over the past 3 years.
Unfortunately the average Joe will never know what these crimes are because, well, money talks...

tipptom

Feenix wrote: »

Communism taking over? Even the Yanks stopped spouting that ****e around 1960.

So communism was not getting a stranglehold in Asia in the 60s

OOkay

Tony EH

tipptom wrote: »

Ali wasnt walking around the univeritys holding up the red book,he wasnt going over to Vietnam to stand on top of a tank,he didnt give a sh*t about vietnam or America or any noble objection,
He refused because he was hooked up with a racist murdering organisation who refused to serve in ww2 and who Ali told Sugar Ray Robinson they would kill him when Sugar told him to sign up.
CO objectors dont refuse to serve,they usually are given jobs of a humanitarian nature,he refused even that
There was and are plenty of black people who think he was a coward while his fellow black men fought for their country and many died while he used his money he earned in America to avoid jail for five years while still race baiting with pearls like,"violence should be visited on any white or black person in a relationship".

Ali may have stated religious and conscientious objection to the war, but he stated specifically that...

"My conscience won't let me go shoot my brother, or some darker people, or some poor hungry people in the mud for big powerful America. And shoot them for what? They never called me nigger, they never lynched me, they didn't put no dogs on me, they didn't rob me of my nationality, rape and kill my mother and father..."

That was where his objection lay.

He had no belief in an unjust war and he was correct.

iamstop

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

compassionate to saudi royals which makes her not very intelligent considering they are literal bona fide head hackers

In a similar vein. Joan Rivers.

Blind support of Israel and what they get away with doing to the Palestinians.

hometruths

The Happy Pear twins are sanctimonious halfwits and their broccoli bake is cack.

Ash.J.Williams

Johnny BGood wrote: »

Have to mention the “Irish sport star”, what would we be without him?
Universally loved, particularly by the yanks who must think that all Irish people are brash, egotistical and proper whiskey drinkers!
Still bemuses me that he still has supporters in Ireland with the crimes he’s committed over the past 3 years.
Unfortunately the average Joe will never know what these crimes are because, well, money talks...

Whiskey is science, the colour and the taste are all part of the process and whiskey drinkers know the craic. That’s why it’s amusing the Americans are running around buying up a low quality bush mills with added caramel colouring to make it look a certain age called proper 12 and think it’s premium:)

The lads in Jameson must have been sick when he started slagging them off

Feenix

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Whiskey is science, the colour and the taste are all part of the process and whiskey drinkers know the craic. That’s why it’s amusing the Americans are running around buying up a low quality bush mills with added caramel colouring to make it look a certain age called proper 12 and think it’s premium:)

The lads in Jameson must have been sick when he started slagging them off

The Americans in general know good whiskey to be fair. It's a certain type of person that buys Proper 12. We have as many of them here as they have over there.

McGinniesta

badabing106 wrote: »

Barack Obama

Was not the peaceful president he betrayed to be. Set the records for wars a US president was involved in and the amount of drone attacks in sovereign foreign nations, over 3,000 in his term

Additionally, he was awarded a nobel peace prize. Perverse.

Furthermore, he did not have the track record to merit nomination, let alone that he managed to get elected.

He achieved nothing of note in eight years in the white house.

He was little short of a con man.

McGinniesta

Like Barack Obama, I could never understand why there was such universal reverence for Nelson Mandela.

Berties_Horse

Ugly horse.

McGinniesta

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not convinced that, in the end, Walter White really cared all that much about his family.

I was hoping that he would blow Jesse Pinkman's head off at the end.

Jesse Pinkman was getting on my knockers f*cking royally at the end with all his whiny bullsh1t. He was trying to get up in Walter White's sh1t and he should have had a couple of caps (i.e bullets)in his hole.

McGinniesta

Deleted User wrote: »

Berties_Horse

Ugly horse.

Harsh.

Celia wasn't that bad.

Mad_maxx

Johnny BGood wrote: »

Have to mention the “Irish sport star”, what would we be without him?
Universally loved, particularly by the yanks who must think that all Irish people are brash, egotistical and proper whiskey drinkers!
Still bemuses me that he still has supporters in Ireland with the crimes he’s committed over the past 3 years.
Unfortunately the average Joe will never know what these crimes are because, well, money talks...

thought those stories were widely circulated ?

hotel room incidence etc ?

Fuascailteoir

tipptom wrote: »

Ali wasnt walking around the univeritys holding up the red book,he wasnt going over to Vietnam to stand on top of a tank,he didnt give a sh*t about vietnam or America or any noble objection,
He refused because he was hooked up with a racist murdering organisation who refused to serve in ww2 and who Ali told Sugar Ray Robinson they would kill him when Sugar told him to sign up.
CO objectors dont refuse to serve,they usually are given jobs of a humanitarian nature,he refused even that
There was and are plenty of black people who think he was a coward while his fellow black men fought for their country and many died while he used his money he earned in America to avoid jail for five years while still race baiting with pearls like,"violence should be visited on any white or black person in a relationship".

There are a good few documentaries made with soldiers returning from Vietnam that had been conscripted. The horror and realisation that they were actually the bad guys after a few weeks of being in Vietnam had them scrambling to get back home. Walking through villages and executing women and children in case the absent man were combatants. Ali made the right call and far from a coward for doing it

the purple tin

Sean Penn.
When he was married to Madonna in the 80s he hit her over the head with a baseball bat.

Another time after she had kicked him out of the house, he broke in, tied her to a chair for hours, beat her up and threatened to cut off her hair.
He only let her go when she promised to perform a 'degrading sex-act' on him.

whisky_galore

tipptom wrote: »

So communism was not getting a stranglehold in Asia in the 60s

OOkay

Just another form of nationalism and self determination for them, the Yanks of course didn't understand that.

Visit China or Vietnam today and they're not much different to your bog standard capitalist country.

It was a bumpy road esp in China but the good old world police the US of A doesn't lose much sleep over poor people oppressed by their govt in any foreign country anywhere provided it doesn't clash with US interests.

razorblunt

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Whiskey is science, the colour and the taste are all part of the process and whiskey drinkers know the craic. That’s why it’s amusing the Americans are running around buying up a low quality bush mills with added caramel colouring to make it look a certain age called proper 12 and think it’s premium:)

The lads in Jameson must have been sick when he started slagging them off

To be fair I don't think Jameson give a shíte about it.
The lads buying Proper 12 are the same lads buying Monster energy drinks.

Gruffalux

the purple tin wrote: »

Sean Penn.
When he was married to Madonna in the 80s he hit her over the head with a baseball bat.

Another time after she had kicked him out of the house, he broke in, tied her to a chair for hours, beat her up and threatened to cut off her hair.
He only let her go when she promised to perform a 'degrading sex-act' on him.

Jesus Christ.

the purple tin

the purple tin wrote: »

Sean Penn.
When he was married to Madonna in the 80s he hit her over the head with a baseball bat.

Another time after she had kicked him out of the house, he broke in, tied her to a chair for hours, beat her up and threatened to cut off her hair.
He only let her go when she promised to perform a 'degrading sex-act' on him.

Never heard that. Where is it reported?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

the purple tin wrote: »

Sean Penn.
When he was married to Madonna in the 80s he hit her over the head with a baseball bat.

Another time after she had kicked him out of the house, he broke in, tied her to a chair for hours, beat her up and threatened to cut off her hair.
He only let her go when she promised to perform a 'degrading sex-act' on him.

Not sure I'd count Penn as "univeraslly revered"! Also, Madonna denied the abuse allegations publicly.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

Never heard that. Where is it reported?

It has certainly been reported that Madonna denies it ever happened. It came up in a libel trial that Penn took against somebody.

Feenix

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not sure I'd count Penn as "univeraslly revered"! Also, Madonna denied the abuse allegations publicly.

Yeah he seems to be disliked by everyone.

The majority of mentions here arent known outside of UK or Ireland let alone universally revered. Ray Darcy lol

riffmongous

Isn't this thread just a repeat of 'people you inexplicably cant stand', how many whingey threads do we need?

Hangdogroad

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It has certainly been reported that Madonna denies it ever happened. It came up in a libel trial that Penn took against somebody.

I vaguely remember tabloid headlines about their stormy marriage at the time. There was a famous photo of him twatting a photographer.

ohnonotgmail

Hangdogroad wrote: »

I vaguely remember tabloid headlines about their stormy marriage at the time. There was a famous photo of him twatting a photographer.

it certainly wasn't the happiest of relationships but that particular allegation about the baseball bat doesn't seem to be true.

the purple tin

Deleted User wrote: »

Never heard that. Where is it reported?

https://www.thenyindependent.com/130795/madonna-sean-penn-marriage-is-she-lying-now-or-was-she-lying-then/


Look it up and you will find lots more reports.
Penn might not be well liked but he would be classed as one of the best actors of our generation.

the purple tin

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

it certainly wasn't the happiest of relationships but that particular allegation about the baseball bat doesn't seem to be true.

She had to go to hospital for an x ray.

ohnonotgmail

the purple tin wrote: »

She had to go to hospital for an x ray.

she has publicly denied it.

the purple tin

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

she has publicly denied it.

Did you read the article?
She went to the sherriff's office distraught and obviously having been beaten up. She made a complaint against Penn and later withdrew it.
Why did she do that? You'll have to ask her that.

Thelonious Monk

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

There are a good few documentaries made with soldiers returning from Vietnam that had been conscripted. The horror and realisation that they were actually the bad guys after a few weeks of being in Vietnam had them scrambling to get back home. Walking through villages and executing women and children in case the absent man were combatants. Ali made the right call and far from a coward for doing it

This Vietnam vet tells the story very well of how they realised they were the bad guys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tixOyiR8B-8

Tony EH

^

That man's name is Bill Erhart. He's a member of the VVAW. There are a few interviews floating around of him telling of his experiences and few of them are pretty. Most vets don't have good stories to tell about the war, which is unsurprising really. Other good documentaries to check out are 'Hearts and Minds' and 'Winter Soldier', if you're interested.

BTW, his reference to "detainees" is an interesting one. Civvies were classified as that because it meant that they wouldn't be covered by any of the conventions on warfare. Which basically meant that they were completely at the mercy of the US Army. A mercy that was often not forthcoming. Many so called "detainees" often just "disappeared", never to be seen again. The US has a history of that sort of thing. The called German POWs "DEF's" after the war, or "Disarmed Enemy Forces" in order to get around the Geneva Conventions.

However, while there are numerous documentaries about the American experience in Vietnam and far too few about the Vietnamese one. Our "history" of the conflict is often seen through America's eyes and not the eyes of the majority of people who suffered through it. So, in many people's minds, it's become an American war only.

Kaybaykwah

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

This Vietnam vet tells the story very well of how they realised they were the bad guys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tixOyiR8B-8

A great big orgy of big guys dropping more bombs than all of WW2 on that country, plus defoliants, etc... and still, they managed to lose that war big time. God Bless a Miracle.

badabing106

Saint Mother Theresa. A Saint she was not

Sgt Hartman

Celebrity Chef Michel Roux junior - I liked him on Masterchef The Professionals but went completely off him when I found out he was paying his staff below minimum wage and was keeping the tips and service charges for himself. I can't stand greed like that.