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Bought car from dealer online

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    #32
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Suckit wrote:
    I don't think you are correct under lockdown and if seller hasn't replied from buyers initial emails.

    I would bet you that the buyer would win in court (with or without covid) and ONLY on the proof that buyer has emailed and tried to contact seller with the 14 days without reply.

    How can you state this with zero facts to back it up? What law has consumer rights been altered because of covid?

    Had the OP sent an email rejecting the purchase within 14 days of receiving, with or without reply, then yes a court would grant it based on the law. But the Op missed that opportunity.


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    #33
    Iodine1
    Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭Iodine1


    Wheel bearing is not a big deal, they last variable times. It's not terminal like rust is. Garage will have it replaced quickly, allowing for closed days and receipt of parts, and I expect the car will be returned perfectly roadworthy. As the law says, you have to allow them to do so. I doubt they will entertain taking it back as it now has another owner on the log book, reducing its value, when they try to sell on.


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    #34
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    walshtipp wrote: »
    It is absolutely not acceptable to sell a car with worn wheel bearings. It is a very dangerous problem. If a bearing collapsed while driving that wheel would lock up and depending on what speed you are travelling, could cause an accident.

    It easily could have gone undiagnosed sitting in the yard not being driven. It was found as a fault within 6 months therefore considered to have been there on purchase, which the dealer shall rectify under repair.

    It is a perishable part, its expected it will go at some point. While yes it can be unsafe i won't disagree it is also the owners responsibility not to drive a car with a defect which may lead to a dangerous situation. The op clearly had the sense to send it back when they realised there was an issue.
    However this is not grounds to undo the contract.
    If you want to play the hypothetical game it could have literally failed upon the ops first drive after being dropped off.
    Fact of the matter is the op has been slightly put out and is in a loaner they don't like while the repair takes place. Its also reasonable for the repair to take extra time as the time of year and situation with delivery delays may indeed delay it.
    Now if they get it back and they have to bring it back several more times they can undo the contract, slightly trickier with getting the trade in back as it could be sold or flogged on within the trade.


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    #35
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    How can you state this with zero facts to back it up? What law has consumer rights been altered because of covid?

    Had the OP sent an email rejecting the purchase within 14 days of receiving, with or without reply, then yes a court would grant it based on the law. But the Op missed that opportunity.
    I am referring to the fact the OP had tried contacting them over the next 2-3 days and was unable. They stated that they car was faulty from the start and was unable to get a reply after ringing and phoning the seller.
    That was my take on it, and if that is correct then the OP would definitely (assuming all above was provable) be within their rights. They had contacted the place and got paperwork, were told that they needed to speak to sales rep, but was unable to contact him after numerous times trying, but he is still unavailable (until tomorrow as per time of OPs post). All well inside the 14 days.


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    #36
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,578 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Suckit wrote: »
    I am referring to the fact the OP had tried contacting them over the next 2-3 days and was unable. They stated that they car was faulty from the start and was unable to get a reply after ringing and phoning the seller.
    That was my take on it, and if that is correct then the OP would definitely (assuming all above was provable) be within their rights. They had contacted the place and got paperwork, were told that they needed to speak to sales rep, but was unable to contact him after numerous times trying, but he is still unavailable (until tomorrow as per time of OPs post). All well inside the 14 days.

    Is tomorrow “well inside” the 14 calendar days if the car was delivered the week before Christmas? Unless I have missed it, the op didn’t let the garage know, in writing (post or email) within the distance selling cooling off period.

    I think the op is within his/her rights to be annoyed, but it seems the garage is rectifying the problem. If you want to rely on legal entitlements, it helps your cause if you follow the legal requirements of the Act you want to rely on.


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    #37
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Is tomorrow “well inside” the 14 calendar days if the car was delivered the week before Christmas? Unless I have missed it, the op didn’t let the garage know, in writing (post or email) within the distance selling cooling off period.

    I think the op is within his/her rights to be annoyed, but it seems the garage is rectifying the problem. If you want to rely on legal entitlements, it helps your cause if you follow the legal requirements of the Act you want to rely on.

    You are correct you must explicitly inform them in writing of your intention to make use of the 14 day cooling off period.
    There is no provision I'm aware of that allows for extra days due to public holidays.
    The ops entitlement if they didn't explicitly state they wanted to make use of this entitlement ended on the 31st of December.

    Also to add no law has been amended in relation to distance selling and covid it is up to the merchant if they feel like being generous with extra days but are not obliged to.


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    #38
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Is tomorrow “well inside” the 14 calendar days if the car was delivered the week before Christmas? Unless I have missed it, the op didn’t let the garage know, in writing (post or email) within the distance selling cooling off period.

    I think the op is within his/her rights to be annoyed, but it seems the garage is rectifying the problem. If you want to rely on legal entitlements, it helps your cause if you follow the legal requirements of the Act you want to rely on.
    No.

    14 days is 14 days. But the fact the OP had tried to contact them numerous times, got through to the business (so they were open) but were told they needed to contact that sales rep, whom never seemed to be there, but was due to be there today.

    If what the OP stated is true, then there should be proof that OP tried many times to contact them, and specifically the rep, all within the 14 days.


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    #39
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    You are correct you must explicitly inform them in writing of your intention to make use of the 14 day cooling off period.
    There is no provision I'm aware of that allows for extra days due to public holidays.
    The ops entitlement if they didn't explicitly state they wanted to make use of this entitlement ended on the 31st of December.

    Also to add no law has been amended in relation to distance selling and covid it is up to the merchant if they feel like being generous with extra days but are not obliged to.
    The seller must also make OP aware of the company policy cooling off period, and given that the rep (whom OP was told had to contact) was never there for any of he days OP emailed and phoned, I am betting the OP would have rights in their favour.


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    #40
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,578 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Suckit wrote: »
    The seller must also make OP aware of the company policy cooling off period, and given that the rep (whome OP was told had to contact) was never there for any of he days OP emailed and phoned, I am betting the OP would have rights in their favour.

    The cooling off period is a legal entitlement with distance selling, it has nothing to do with company policy. The seller can of course offer an extended cooling off period if they wish. The op should have exercised his/her right to return the car by informing the seller in writing (post/email/online form provided by seller) it would seem the op did not do this. I may not be reading this correctly, but my understanding is the op emailed the finance company rather than the garage. By emailing the garage within the 14, there is written/digital proof that the op exercised his/her distance selling right to return the item.

    Perhaps the op could have taken the opportunity to give written notice on the 29th when the car was being picked up, that he/she was returning it.


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    #41
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    walshtipp wrote: »
    It is absolutely not acceptable to sell a car with worn wheel bearings. It is a very dangerous problem. If a bearing collapsed while driving that wheel would lock up and depending on what speed you are travelling, could cause an accident.

    Im 26 years in the motor trade ands Ive never seen or even heard of this ever happening.
    Wheel bearings are basically a serviceable part. The OP has nothing to worry about if they are changing it under warranty.


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    #42
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The cooling off period is a legal entitlement with distance selling, it has nothing to do with company policy. The seller can of course offer an extended cooling off period if they wish. The op should have exercised his/her right to return the car by informing the seller in writing (post/email/online form provided by seller) it would seem the op did not do this. I may not be reading this correctly, but my understanding is the op emailed the finance company rather than the garage. By emailing the garage within the 14, there is written/digital proof that the op exercised his/her distance selling right to return the item.

    Perhaps the op could have taken the opportunity to give written notice on the 29th when the car was being picked up, that he/she was returning it.
    Yes, and if the seller offers or does not offer any extra, they should make the buyer aware.
    In any case the buyer must be informed, If there is a right to cancel and the conditions, time limit and procedures for cancelling among other things.

    The buyer may also cancel the order and must tell the seller within 14 days of receiving it, that they want to return it. They then have a further 14 days to return it.
    Also as mentioned previously

    Faulty goods     Under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980 all products must meet certain conditions of quality, performance and durability. This means that when you buy something it has to be:
    • Of satisfactory (merchantable) quality - this means of reasonable and acceptable standard, taking into account other factors such as durability and price
    • Fit for the purpose you bought it for – they should work and do what they are reasonably expected to do
    • As described - they must match any description given in an advert or other information provided by the seller at the time of sale


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    #43
    walshtipp
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭walshtipp


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    Im 26 years in the motor trade ands Ive never seen or even heard of this ever happening.
    Wheel bearings are basically a serviceable part. The OP has nothing to worry about if they are changing it under warranty.

    I only mentioned it because it happened me while driving a Peugeot 208 that I borrowed a couple of years ago. One of the back wheels locked up and car was basically undriveable. I wasn't aware this could happen before it happened me.


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    #44
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,578 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Suckit wrote: »
    Yes, and if the seller offers or does not offer any extra, they should make the buyer aware.
    In any case the buyer must be informed, If there is a right to cancel and the conditions, time limit and procedures for cancelling among other things.

    The buyer may also cancel the order and must tell the seller within 14 days of receiving it, that they want to return it. They then have a further 14 days to return it.
    Also as mentioned previously

    Suckit, the op’s rights under distance selling legislation are not contingent on the sellers policies relating to return of goods sold online. No matter what the sellers policies are relating to return of goods, they do not effect the buyers rights. The issue here seems to be that the op informed the finance company via email, but did not inform the garage.

    Again, before looking at rights to cancel, bare in mind the garage seems to be addressing the issue.


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