Some advice please - new dog

BraveDonut

I understand that the forum rules dictate that I cannot post looking for details on sourcing a dog - What I am looking for is some advice on pitfalls and what to avoid.

We lost our beautiful Golden Retriever a few weeks before Christmas after 13 wonderful years. Our family of 4 are all broken-hearted in making the decision to let him go and we were all with him at the end. He was 100% part of our family.

Our original plan was to wait a few months before getting another dog but he has left such a hole in our lives that we are now thinking of moving this forward now. But we will not rush into anything as we want do get the dog that is right for us.

When we bought our last dog 13 years ago, we got it wrong!
We met the seller in a hotel car park rather than at his home. He had all of the right paperwork and the dog was beautiful. He said that he was shifting the pup as he had an older dog who was not getting along with the pup.
We now know how naive we were.

On bringing the pup to the vet to be checked it turned out that his testicles (or one of) had not dropped and he had to be operated on - meaning that he would never breed.

But we got it right - sort of.....!
We never intended to breed him. He was always intended to be a family pet. He turned out to be the most wonderful, loyal, intelligent, beautiful boy ever.

We would like to go for another retriever but this time we want to go about it the right way. Researching the web has just turned up huge amounts of information. IKC shows information on how to approach buying and what to look for but there just seems to be large amounts of classified sites advertising dogs.


I am looking for help on things to avoid please

The Nal

BraveDonut wrote: »

I understand that the forum rules dictate that I cannot post looking for details on sourcing a dog - What I am looking for is some advice on pitfalls and what to avoid.

We lost our beautiful Golden Retriever a few weeks before Christmas after 13 wonderful years. Our family of 4 are all broken-hearted in making the decision to let him go and we were all with him at the end. He was 100% part of our family.

Our original plan was to wait a few months before getting another dog but he has left such a hole in our lives that we are now thinking of moving this forward now. But we will not rush into anything as we want do get the dog that is right for us.

When we bought our last dog 13 years ago, we got it wrong!
We met the seller in a hotel car park rather than at his home. He had all of the right paperwork and the dog was beautiful. He said that he was shifting the pup as he had an older dog who was not getting along with the pup.
We now know how naive we were.

On bringing the pup to the vet to be checked it turned out that his testicles (or one of) had not dropped and he had to be operated on - meaning that he would never breed.

But we got it right - sort of.....!
We never intended to breed him. He was always intended to be a family pet. He turned out to be the most wonderful, loyal, intelligent, beautiful boy ever.

We would like to go for another retriever but this time we want to go about it the right way. Researching the web has just turned up huge amounts of information. IKC shows information on how to approach buying and what to look for but there just seems to be large amounts of classified sites advertising dogs.


I am looking for help on things to avoid please

Don't buy one from a classified ad.

Only buy from IKC approved breeders/sellers.

Make sure the paperwork (parents etc) is available.

Start with below. If they can't help they'll steer you in the right direction.

https://www.ikc.ie/dog-ownership/types-of-dog/breeds/breed-details/46

Tips for contacting sellers:
Keep communication through our messaging system for as long as possible.
Choose carefully what information you share about yourself.
Note microchip IDs and check certificates when you visit puppies that they match.
Ask sellers to provide their ID (drivers licence / passport) and take note of their contact details.
Ask to see mother of puppies.
Make sure the puppy is 8 weeks before taking ownership of the dog (closer to 12 weeks is even better).
If they are a registered breeding establishment or registered seller ask to see their certifications.
See puppies in their home environment, not in a parking lot or other business location.
Ask sellers about the vet who has taken care of the puppies and given them their vaccinations and contact the vet.
Report suspicious activity to your local Garda Station.

Good luck! Beautiful dogs.

tk123

Sorry to hear about your dog OP

I'm on a waiting list atm for a retriever. Contact https://grsoi.com and http://www.aigrc.com but bear in mind they've been inundated with enquires. My first pup didn't happen and I'm now on a list for a dog who isn't in pup yet - all going well this time the pup will be ready to come home in April. I only got on these lists thanks to a friend - you're in for a wait i'm afraid.

BraveDonut

Thanks for the response TK
To be honest, I expected this

tk123

BraveDonut wrote: »

Thanks for the response TK
To be honest, I expected this

Yeah my plan was get my thesis mostly out of the way and have a pup july/august - never thought a year would have passed losing Lucy and still no pup!! I'm trying to not get too excited in case something happens again but will hopefully have some good news in the next few weeks. I am uber picky about where the pup is coming from, temperament etc as it needs to be another perfect match for our family.

Cherry Blossom

I’m afraid everyone wants a dog at this time OP. People have had lots of spare time during COVID restrictions and lots of them have occupied themselves by getting a dog. Puppy farms are making a killing from sub standard animals. If you are patient just a little while longer the vaccine is on its way and breeders can go about their business again but just now it is very hard to get a dog from a reputable source. I don’t know how lucky or unlucky you were with your old dog but GRs can have very serious joint issues such has hip dysplasia and elbow dysplasia. At a minimum the parents of any potential pup should be hip and elbow scored. You can familiarise yourself with how these scores work and what they mean.

My dog came from a reputable source and both his testes were undescended and he was neutered too. This was something I could live with as my dog was never going to be used for breeding in any case and undescended testes is a genetic condition that should not be passed on to the next generation so a dog with this condition should never be bred from regardless of being neutered or not.

As you mention breeding, is this something you are interested in doing? If so you will need to be up front with breeders that you want a dog of suitable quality to breed from. This could make a long wait for a pup even longer. The dog should then prove it’s worth by entering confirmation shows and/or field trials. If the dog is successful you need to do all the necessary health testing and if it’s a male and has excellent credentials owners of bitches would normally approach you to use your dog, not the other way around.

I am sorry to hear you lost your dog and please have a good think about what you want from your next pup in advance of getting one. For me I just want pets I can enjoy and train for fun. I will never breed from a dog, I couldn’t handle the stress of it.

BraveDonut

Apologies if that was worded badly - I have no intention of breeding. I am looking for a family pet only

smilerf

You will get people saying don't buy from ads
My experience we bought our westie from done deal 15 years ago.
He is a great dog never sick
Just be aware of your sorroundings
Ask to see the parents
Ask for papers

Cherry Blossom

smilerf wrote: »

You will get people saying don't buy from ads
My experience we bought our westie from done deal 15 years ago.
He is a great dog never sick
Just be aware of your sorroundings
Ask to see the parents
Ask for papers

You got lucky as did I with my Westie for the most part. I got mine from an ad on a notice board. I would not do it again. So many westies suffer horribly with skin conditions and allergies. I did not know about breed clubs and health testing and unethical greeders. I do now. Mine came from an ‘accidental litter’. I know now there is no such thing really and no excuse for it. My lab before that was bought from a puppy farm by an extended family member and dumped on us when his behavioural problems started to come to light. Any dogs we had when I was a child were all foundlings. I haven’t found a dog now in 20 years so when we choose a pet it is our responsibility to ensure it comes from an ethical source.

borderlinemeath

smilerf wrote: »

You will get people saying don't buy from ads
My experience we bought our westie from done deal 15 years ago.
He is a great dog never sick
Just be aware of your sorroundings
Ask to see the parents
Ask for papers

Done Deal was only founded in 2004, and didn't really take off in a big way until 07/08, so puppy farmers hadn't got a proper foothold on it back then. It got so bad that there's pages set up to out multiple posts to help spot puppy farmers and it's not even available at the moment due to the spate of dognapping of litters and pressure from welfare groups.

tk123

A retriever from the wrong type of background can have joint and/or behavioural problems and will cost more than one from a reputable breeder so the only thing you’re saving by going to a puppy farmer is some time.. which you will pay back in abundance trying to work through issues that can crop up. Also FYI - a breeder owning both parents would be a red flag for me.

krudmonkey

OP - you're doing the right thing by being cautious. Ireland is the puppy farm capital of Europe, and some of the practices are shameful and cruel.

Absolutely do not meet anywhere but the home of the seller. Seeing the pup with it's mother should be a non-negotiable.

We very recently got a Golden Retriever on dogs.ie. Things I asked/checked were:

- background on both parents. (age, temperament, relationship to breeder, have they had pups previously, are they around kids.
- current situation - is the puppy being socialised, how big is the litter, are the pups siblings gone to homes, are they weaned yet, what are they eating?
- medical - are both parents registered, can you get the hip and eye score from both, have the puppies been chipped, wormed, deflead.

I was delighted the seller "interviewed" me too as he was adamant the puppies go to good homes. Asked me where we lived, had both my wife and I had dogs before, what kind etc... Would there be someone at home with the puppy or would we get dog walkers/day care etc.

I asked him for the following when we pick up the puppy - feeding schedule, blanket with scent of his family on it, vet records, transfer of microchip, copies of both parents IKC certs - and he was more than happy to oblige.

You'll likely pay between €1,800 and €2,200 but for 13 years of happiness it's a small price

Knine

krudmonkey wrote: »

OP

You'll likely pay between €1,800 and €2,200 but for 13 years of happiness it's a small price

Do not pay that crazy money for a puppy. Mine go for much less. My dogs are Top Quality Champions in their breed with excellent working ability! They are fully health tested with certs & I am part of the breed Club. Greeders in my breed are selling them for 3K

Only a Greeder would charge that!

krudmonkey

Knine wrote: »

Do not pay that crazy money for a puppy. Mine go for much less. My dogs are Top Quality Champions in their breed with excellent working ability! They are fully health tested with certs & I am part of the breed Club. Greeders in my breed are selling them for 3K

Only a Greeder would charge that!

We paid €1,800 for ours. It's a lot of money, but the absolute cheapest I found a legit sounding retriever pup for was €1,650.

Knine

krudmonkey wrote: »

We paid €1,800 for ours. It's a lot of money, but the absolute cheapest I found a legit sounding retriever pup for was €1,650.

People paying this kind of money are fuelling the greed! For what is often a pet quality dog.

Buddy Bubs

10 month old on the left, 250 euro this year while everyone out paying 1000s. 6 year old on the right, 30 euro. Yes, 30. Got both of them as 8 week Olds.
2 of the best retrievers and family pets you'll ever find. This craic of only buying from registered breeders is nonsense. Check parents and make sure it's not puppy farm, yes by all means but you'll get some fantastic dogs from other sources too.

krudmonkey

Knine wrote: »

People paying this kind of money are fuelling the greed! For what is often a pet quality dog.

A "pet quality dog"? The OP is looking for a pet, not a working dog or a show dog.

It's supply and demand. Lots of people want dogs, there aren't a whole lot to come by that aren't farmed. So those that want to do their best to buy ethically produced pups will have to pay a premium.

Good on you for selling yours cheaper, fair play.

krudmonkey

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

10 month old on the left, 250 euro this year while everyone out paying 1000s. 6 year old on the right, 30 euro. Yes, 30. Got both of them as 8 week Olds.
2 of the best retrievers and family pets you'll ever find. This craic of only buying from registered breeders is nonsense. Check parents and make sure it's not puppy farm, yes by all means but you'll get some fantastic dogs from other sources too.

They're labs. The OP seems to want a Golden Retriever. Very different dogs.

Buddy Bubs

krudmonkey wrote: »

They're labs. The OP seems to want a Golden Retriever. Very different dogs.

About as close as 2 different breeds of dog can be
Anyway, the point is don't get suckered into this idea that you should only get a dog from a very small pool of sellers because they've joined a little club and charge a fortune.

krudmonkey

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

About as close as 2 different breeds of dog can be

But still very different animals IMO - both physically and personality wise. I've volunteered at shelters for a few years and have come across quite a lot of labs, but never a retriever. The price they're going for shows the demand they're in. It's crap that dogs, amazing companions that they are, are seen as a commodity but unfortunately anything you can buy and sell will have a market and markets react to supply and demand.

tk123

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

Anyway, the point is don't get suckered into this idea that you should only get a dog from a very small pool of sellers because they've joined a little club and charge a fortune.

The breed club actually limits the price and it’s less than what people are selling retrievers for on dogs.ie...also there is no reason for a breeder not to be a member of the club unless they’re breaking the code of ethics or increasing the prices.

Knine

krudmonkey wrote: »

A "pet quality dog"? The OP is looking for a pet, not a working dog or a show dog.

It's supply and demand. Lots of people want dogs, there aren't a whole lot to come by that aren't farmed. So those that want to do their best to buy ethically produced pups will have to pay a premium.

Good on you for selling yours cheaper, fair play.

Pet quality as in a dog that half the time does not even resemble the breed & has faults that will create problems down the line.

I don't sell mine cheap. I am part of a breed club & we have moral ethics to follow & churning out puppies at crazy prices is absolutely not in the benefit of the breed long term & it causes people to think " Oh I will get a dog because I can make money out of it"