Disconnected back burner removal

circadian

Hi all,


Our back boiler in the fire has been disconnected since before we moved into this house about 6 years ago (I'd say disconnected close to 20 years judging by the gas boiler). We light fires every so often but recently I noticed it making noises. I suspect that this is the jacket heating and expanding which leads me to believe that the metal is slowly becoming damaged/warped as a result of the heat from the fires.


Obviously, I'd like to have it taken out whilst keeping the fireplace itself as is. I have absolutely no idea where to start looking to have a removal job like this done though, any ideas? Would fireplace fitters have no problem doing a removal if I have no intention of installing a new fireplace?

listermint

Have stripped out two of these out of our house .

Many conventional back boilers are built as an all in one piece. As in the firebox and boiler are all one . So removing the back boiler would essentially be removing the walls of your fire and the upper.

There is work to rip out but it's all just grunt Manual labour . Lump hammers and pry bars.

But then you'd have to reinstate a firebox as you'd have bare bricks or whatever was used to make the fire place.So essentially you'd be getting a new firebox. Either. Concrete fire rated. Premade one , fire bricks or even a new cast iron insert with no boiler on it.

I believe alot of people just get the boiler drilled through with holes so no air becomes trapped in it. These should have been done or valves completely open at decommissioning time. Are you sure this was done ? You shouldn't really hear noises if it was done properly

circadian

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I'm pretty certain that a hole has been drilled as well as being disconnected and drained. It's a boiler that encompasses the entire opening, the side walls are cast iron or similar and attached to the jacket at the back of the fire and above.

I haven't had issues with fires before so I'm starting to think the metal is deteriorating and since it's such an old boiler I have no idea of the quality of work and if there's potential for damage hidden behind the metalwork. I found a local fireplace shop that said they'd come out and take a look.

Bass Reeves

I presume it similar to this.
https://www.firebird.ie/index.php/biomass-boilers-back-boiler.html

The holes that were bored may be after sealing up with soot/cresote. Redrilling them may solve the issue in the short term. However the long-term solution is to remove the backboiler. It has obviously deteriorated over the years from being literally being heated and reheated. When it was full of water this limited it ability to hear beyond a certain point.

However now constants fast expansion of the metal and contraction may have damaged the costing. Long term solution is to remove however you will be left with a bare block opening. If it was me I replace with a stove insert. There is a crowd in Co Clare that do basic stoves for reasonable prices. You will need to line the chimneys with a continuous flue.

Bass Reeves

Just one thing you need to be 100% sure the existing backboiler is decommissioned. Backboiler's that are still working can make a lot of noise if circulation pumps are not working or if there is an issue with non return valve a fitted where two heating systems are fitted back to back

Wearb

OP is correct to be worried. It has been shown that drilling isn't enough and that it needs to be removed. They will warp and twist, sometimes with disastrous consequences.

blackvalley

Wearb wrote: »

OP is correct to be worried. It has been shown that drilling isn't enough and that it needs to be removed. They will warp and twist, sometimes with disastrous consequences.

:eek: Like what ?.

Dtp1979

blackvalley wrote: »

:eek: Like what ?.

If it’s full of water and blanked off it will explode, killing everyone within 10 metres.
If it isn’t full of water and then eventually the steel will be burnt through and carbon monoxide will enter the room from the holes where the pipes used to be.

Either way, do not light a decommissioned back boiler.

Wearb

blackvalley wrote: »

:eek: Like what ?.

In one instance that I remember, it warped enough to knock the firefront down on top of a child.

CoBo55

Dtp1979 wrote: »

If it’s full of water and blanked off it will explode, killing everyone within 10 metres.
If it isn’t full of water and then eventually the steel will be burnt through and carbon monoxide will enter the room from the holes where the pipes used to be.

Either way, do not light a decommissioned back boiler.

Really? that's terrible. Kind of a bit late for the op to be hearing that now.

CoBo55

Wearb wrote: »

In one instance that I remember, it warped enough to knock the firefront down on top of a child.

Oh god that's shocking... Was it on Joe Duffy? Being a child an all.

Wearb

CoBo55 wrote: »

Oh god that's shocking... Was it on Joe Duffy? Being a child an all.

I can't remember if it was. I don't hear daytime radio very often.

Dtp1979

Wearb wrote: »

I can't remember if it was. I don't hear daytime radio very often.

He’s mocking ya wearb

Dtp1979

CoBo55 wrote: »

Really? that's terrible. Kind of a bit late for the op to be hearing that now.

So you reckon I should’ve said nothing and let the op continue lighting the fire?

listermint

Dtp1979 wrote: »

He’s mocking ya wearb

That lad travels threads just been an absolute insert your familiar term here.


Wouldn't worry too much about him

circadian

Thanks folks, got a quote for a removal so will proceed without lighting any more fires!

bladespin

Same boat, we have a working firebird BB in the house at the moment, plan to upgrade the system to gas very soon but really want to keep the fire for use the odd time starting to wonder what the best option is all round, reading this has opened my eyes.

Wearb

bladespin wrote: »

Same boat, we have a working firebird BB in the house at the moment, plan to upgrade the system to gas very soon but really want to keep the fire for use the odd time starting to wonder what the best option is all round, reading this has opened my eyes.

Best option would be to put in a stove.

Worst option would be to put a fireback in it's place, as this would leave an open flue to draw the heat out the chimney.

bladespin

Wearb wrote: »

Best option would be to put in a stove.

Worst option would be to put a fireback in it's place, as this would leave an open flue to draw the heat out the chimney.

I'd like the stove but the mrs hates them, thinking maybe gas fire for the effect.

Wearb

bladespin wrote: »

I'd like the stove but the mrs hates them, thinking maybe gas fire for the effect.

I don't know much about those gas fires. If they have an automated damper that seals the flue when off. But I don't think they work like that.
Hopefully some gas man/woman will comment on that.

frankled

bladespin wrote: »

Same boat, we have a working firebird BB in the house at the moment, plan to upgrade the system to gas very soon but really want to keep the fire for use the odd time starting to wonder what the best option is all round, reading this has opened my eyes.

We have a working back-boiler that's still connected to the closed gas system- so lighting the fire is out of the question. Spoke to two plumbers- it seems the approach of disconnecting back-boilers and drilling holes to make them safe isn't really done as much these days for risk of the boiler itself warping/steaming/making noise. To remove the BB entirely would've necessitated the destruction of the existing fireplace, which we like. Spoke to a stove company who don't deal with back-boilers and informed us that to put in one of their stoves they'd also have to destroy the BB.

So we have a chimney balloon in the fireplace now, and a candle or two where a grate would normally be.

Dtp1979

frankled wrote: »

We have a working back-boiler that's still connected to the closed gas system- so lighting the fire is out of the question. Spoke to two plumbers- it seems the approach of disconnecting back-boilers and drilling holes to make them safe isn't really done as much these days for risk of the boiler itself warping/steaming/making noise. To remove the BB entirely would've necessitated the destruction of the existing fireplace, which we like. Spoke to a stove company who don't deal with back-boilers and informed us that to put in one of their stoves they'd also have to destroy the BB.

So we have a chimney balloon in the fireplace now, and a candle or two where a grate would normally be.

As sound as you may think the gas installers were, it was very irresponsible of them to leave a back boiler attached to a closed system. System like that have to be left stupid proof. What if you sell the house and the next folk come in and light the fire

Dtp1979

Dtp1979 wrote: »

As sound as you may think the gas installers were, it was very irresponsible of them to leave a back boiler attached to a closed system. System like that have to be left stupid proof. What if you sell the house and the next folk come in and light the fire

would it not also act in reverse and become a radiator ?
Pumping heat up the chimney .

Dtp1979

BrownFinger wrote: »

would it not also act in reverse and become a radiator ?
Pumping heat up the chimney .

Yes very possible.

frankled

Dtp1979 wrote: »

As sound as you may think the gas installers were, it was very irresponsible of them to leave a back boiler attached to a closed system. System like that have to be left stupid proof. What if you sell the house and the next folk come in and light the fire

As it happens the original gas installers were not sound at all! Had issues with them. Was a lot less informed back them as I am now.

Is there a way to make a fully functional back boiler work safely with a gas sealed system, do you know? Heard something about expansion vessels but haven't looked into it.

Dtp1979

frankled wrote: »

As it happens the original gas installers were not sound at all! Had issues with them. Was a lot less informed back them as I am now.

Is there a way to make a fully functional back boiler work safely with a gas sealed system, do you know? Heard something about expansion vessels but haven't looked into it.

What gas boiler do you have?

Sleeper12

CoBo55 wrote:

Oh god that's shocking... Was it on Joe Duffy? Being a child an all.

No. It was on the child. Joe Duffy wasn't in the house.

frankled

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What gas boiler do you have?

It's a Baxi condensing efficient boiler, only a couple of years old.