ISME getting in bed with the far right

Mad_maxx

Bambi wrote: »

remove the white supremacism and you have the modern far left

Both far right and far left advocate for huge state overreach

ClosedAccountFuzzy

There’s a rather subjective definition of the use of the term “far” in reference to left or right and it’s being made worse by these, mostly American focused, debates where you’ve someone labelling a centrist and even centre right (certainly from our perspective) politician like Biden as “far left.”

It also works the other way too, but I think we’ve really reached an age of shrill, debates in the USA in particular, where bunkers are erected and political terms are distorted and weaponised.

I mean take the term liberal. That could be applied to someone who thinks the government should be small and regulation should be minimal in the economics or social areas, yet often it’s applied to anyone who is left of whatever the person who’s shouting’s position happens to be.

I think we could do with focusing a bit on Irish politics. We’ve a relatively far more sane system, yet at least online, we seem to be absorbing the shouting from bunkers approach of present day American political debate.

It becomes tiresome. The reality is all to be found in the rather less exciting grey areas in the middle and that’s what our system has been very good at - finding consensus by negotiation and compromise.

Yellow_Fern

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

There’s a rather subjective definition of the use of the term “far” in reference to left or right and it’s being made worse by these, mostly American focused, debates where you’ve someone labelling a centrist and even centre right politician like Biden as “far left.”

It also works the other way too, but I think we’ve really reached an age of shrill, debates in the USA in particular, where bunkers are erected and political terms are distorted and weaponised.

I mean take the term liberal. That could be applied to someone who thinks the government should be small and regulation should be minimal in the economics or social areas, yet often it’s applied to anyone who is left of whatever the person who’s shouting’s position happens to be.

I think we could do with focusing a bit on Irish politics. We’ve a relatively far more sane system, yet at least online, we seem to be absorbing the shouting from bunkers approach of present day American political debate.

It becomes tiresome. The reality is all to be found in the rather less exciting grey areas in the middle and that’s what our system has been very good at - finding consensus by negotiation and compromise.

Totally agree. People throwing labels just poison discussion, like the OP claiming that Gript is far right. Ideas should be taken on their own merits and when disagreements occurs, it is better to assume ignorance and stupidity than malice.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Ideas should be taken on their own merits but that’s not to say that extremists can’t be categorised as such or that all ideas have equal merit.

I think there’s a deliberate misunderstanding of the right to have an opinion being conflated with an idea your opinion has to be accepted, is exempt from criticism, or must be seen as holding equal weight with someone who knows what they’re talking about.

We’ve ended up losing a lot of ability to see expert opinion from the noise of just uninformed nonsense and dogmatic posturing.

That’s where we’ve ended up in debates between dentists and wholistic toothiolgists, or having utter false equivalency and equal time type splits at a crude attempt to balance in media.

We’re losing a lot because of increasingly coarse, unsophisticated debate and that is definitely being led by an American political debate that aims to polarise. That been led by an increasingly dysfunctional GOP that has found all the buttons to trigger reactionary responses.

Dyr

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

That’s where we’ve ended up in debates between dentists and wholistic toothiolgists, or having utter false equivalency and equal time type splits at a crude attempt to balance in media.

Thanks for the Dara O'Brion recap from a decade ago but when did you last see the media try to achieve balance? I seem to remember medical professionals in this country who gave contrary views losing their jobs.

Yellow_Fern

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Youth defence was never radical. A few members without approval did some mad things 20 years ago but that is the height of it.



I am pretty sure being a nasty sneaky creep is a requirement of a good journalist. You have to be find the truth. I dont care about journalists personal morals. I care about if they follow journalistic ethics and McGuirk does. A lot of other gript people are more centre than McGuirk like Dwyer so if McGuirk left they would still have balance.

They used to harass women at airports... Ya they were extremists. McGuirk pushed the Noel Pattern nonsense during the repeal referendum and that one was entirely a manufactured story, if you think he's a credible or ethical journalist then you're a tad biased..

Hotblack Desiato

Geuze wrote: »

I voted against acquiring the right to intentionally destruct unborn children.

An embryo or foetus is not a child though.

I don't see abortion as the solution to any problem, there are better solutions.

That's easy for you to say, isn't it?

Glib to the extreme.

These issues do affect me, as I live here.

Your uterus, your choice :rolleyes:

AndrewJRenko

Bambi wrote: »

Thanks for the Dara O'Brion recap from a decade ago but when did you last see the media try to achieve balance? I seem to remember medical professionals in this country who gave contrary views losing their jobs.

No one lost their job for giving contrary views.

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Totally agree. People throwing labels just poison discussion, like the OP claiming that Gript is far right. Ideas should be taken on their own merits and when disagreements occurs, it is better to assume ignorance and stupidity than malice.

Why would people be so offended about the idea of Gript being far right, which it clearly is, attracting far right supporters and all that. You'd think that people would be happy to own that, given their own far-right opinions.

Bambi wrote: »

remove the white supremacism and you have the modern far left

Apart from the bits about white supremacism , naked racism , anti semetism and espouses a large authoritarian state, you could be right there.

ThunbergsAreGo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No one lost their job for giving contrary views.



Why would people be so offended about the idea of Gript being far right, which it clearly is, attracting far right supporters and all that. You'd think that people would be happy to own that, given their own far-right opinions.


Apart from the bits about white supremacism , naked racism , anti semetism and espouses a large authoritarian state, you could be right there.

What is far right?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why would people be so offended about the idea of Gript being far right, which it clearly is, attracting far right supporters and all that. You'd think that people would be happy to own that, given their own far-right opinions.


.

Because it clearly isn't. I guess though, when you are someone who believes that over 50% of boards.ie users are far right, your line for what constitutes far right is so low it inhabites core of the Earth.

AndrewJRenko

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

What is far right?

Gript.

Yellow_Fern

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No one lost their job for giving contrary views.

HSE whistleblowers all the time give testimony to the press secretly because they fear for the jobs. Some HSE contracts forbid criticism of the HSE. A lot of people fear for their jobs.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why would people be so offended about the idea of Gript being far right, which it clearly is, attracting far right supporters and all that. You'd think that people would be happy to own that, given their own far-right opinions.

Unless you are privy to information that I am not aware of, the implication of this statement is that I and other people who praised Gript are far right? Specifically for which views? Is it because I am gender critical, or because I am prolife or because I believe in small government? Genuine question.

ThunbergsAreGo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Gript.

What makes it far right, what makes a person far right?

Tony EH

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

There’s a rather subjective definition of the use of the term “far” in reference to left or right and it’s being made worse by these, mostly American focused, debates where you’ve someone labelling a centrist and even centre right (certainly from our perspective) politician like Biden as “far left.”

It also works the other way too, but I think we’ve really reached an age of shrill, debates in the USA in particular, where bunkers are erected and political terms are distorted and weaponised.

I mean take the term liberal. That could be applied to someone who thinks the government should be small and regulation should be minimal in the economics or social areas, yet often it’s applied to anyone who is left of whatever the person who’s shouting’s position happens to be.

I think we could do with focusing a bit on Irish politics. We’ve a relatively far more sane system, yet at least online, we seem to be absorbing the shouting from bunkers approach of present day American political debate.

It becomes tiresome. The reality is all to be found in the rather less exciting grey areas in the middle and that’s what our system has been very good at - finding consensus by negotiation and compromise.

It certainly does, especially in relation to our own politics. The term "far" in our case is only used by people who want to make things seem worse than they really are.

As for the influence of bull**** American faux politics, that's a cancer that needs to be cut out with great speed.

Mad_maxx

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No one lost their job for giving contrary views.



Why would people be so offended about the idea of Gript being far right, which it clearly is, attracting far right supporters and all that. You'd think that people would be happy to own that, given their own far-right opinions.


Apart from the bits about white supremacism , naked racism , anti semetism and espouses a large authoritarian state, you could be right there.

How exactly is Gript " far right " ?

John Mcguirk is a passionate defender of free speech so it's no wonder the WOKE brigade despise him so much

AndrewJRenko

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

HSE whistleblowers all the time give testimony to the press secretly because they fear for the jobs. Some HSE contracts forbid criticism of the HSE. A lot of people fear for their jobs.

Many people have confidentiality requirements in their job contract. Every civil servant in the country has requirements not to comment on public affairs. I had requirements not comment on my employer's business in the private sector days.

But who are these people that you "remember medical professionals in this country who gave contrary views losing their jobs."

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Unless you are privy to information that I am not aware of, the implication of this statement is that I and other people who praised Gript are far right? Specifically for which views? Is it because I am gender critical, or because I am prolife or because I believe in small government? Genuine question.

All three coming together makes it a bit obvious, right?

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

What makes it far right, what makes a person far right?

What makes Gript far right is having far-right leading light John McGuirk at the helm, and it's constant attempts to stir up hatred against vulnerable groups using edge cases - standard Trump tactics.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Many people have confidentiality requirements in their job contract. Every civil servant in the country has requirements not to comment on public affairs. I had requirements not comment on my employer's business in the private sector days.

But who are these people that you "remember medical professionals in this country who gave contrary views losing their jobs."


All three coming together makes it a bit obvious, right?



What makes Gript far right is having far-right leading light John McGuirk at the helm, and it's constant attempts to stir up hatred against vulnerable groups using edge cases - standard Trump tactics.

Stir up hatred or report facts?

AndrewJRenko

Hhhhh wrote: »

Stir up hatred or report facts?

Stir up hatred.

ThunbergsAreGo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What makes Gript far right is having far-right leading light John McGuirk at the helm, and it's constant attempts to stir up hatred against vulnerable groups using edge cases - standard Trump tactics.

I am still none the wiser, stirring up hate vs vulnerable groups is the definition of far right?

Seems a nice definition for people I don't like

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Stir up hatred.

Such as?

AndrewJRenko

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I am still none the wiser, stirring up hate vs vulnerable groups is the definition of far right?

Seems a nice definition for people I don't like

More like a definition of the far right. Think Trump, and translate it into an Irish context.

ThunbergsAreGo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

More like a definition of the far right. Think Trump, and translate it into an Irish context.

In your opinion, and using your definition of vulnerable

As said elsewhere this rush to prescribe "far" to people is tiresome

Danzy

Gript is far right in the same way Corbyn is a Maoist who would have the Jews and working class in a death camp gulag.

AndrewJRenko

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

In your opinion, and using your definition of vulnerable

As said elsewhere this rush to prescribe "far" to people is tiresome

Tiresome doesn't mean it's not true. Gript is straight out of the far-right playbook, a media outlet with questionable funding that works to rile up hate against vulnerable groups.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Tiresome doesn't mean it's not true. Gript is straight out of the far-right playbook, a media outlet with questionable funding that works to rile up hate against vulnerable groups.

Can we have some examples please?

AndrewJRenko

Hhhhh wrote: »

Such as?

Take your pick. They do seem just a little obsessed, don't they?








They couldn't be more Trump if McGuirk wore an orange wig.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/facebook-looking-into-link-between-irish-website-and-firm-that-breached-privacy-laws-1.4149486

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Take your pick. They do seem just a little obsessed, don't they?








They couldn't be more Trump if McGuirk wore an orange wig.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/facebook-looking-into-link-between-irish-website-and-firm-that-breached-privacy-laws-1.4149486

How is any of that 'stirring up hatred'?

AndrewJRenko

Hhhhh wrote: »

How is any of that 'stirring up hatred'?

Because it stirs up hatred against vulnerable people. If you can't see that, that says a lot about you.

Danzy

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Many people have confidentiality requirements in their job contract. Every civil servant in the country has requirements not to comment on public affairs. I had requirements not comment on my employer's business in the private sector days.

But who are these people that you "remember medical professionals in this country who gave contrary views losing their jobs."


All three coming together makes it a bit obvious, right?



What makes Gript far right is having far-right leading light John McGuirk at the helm, and it's constant attempts to stir up hatred against vulnerable groups using edge cases - standard Trump tactics.

There is little I agree with John McGuirk on
but pretending he is far right is really off the wall billox9kogy.

Who else in Ireland falls in to your little bourgeoise book of Irish fash?

Do you see the hand of Mossad directing it all. That's a genuine question, you sound like people I have spoke to before and Mossad are more than a bit player in their view of politics.

Danzy

Danzy wrote: »

There is little I agree with John McGuirk on
but pretending he is far right is really off the wall billox9kogy.

Who else in Ireland falls in to your little bourgeoise book of Irish fash?

Peter Casey and over 50% of boards users.