Relationship breakup

Dave46

My girlfriend has decided she wants to break up with me and me to move out, we are not married but we have 2 children together,
I was given the site by my father worth 150000 at the time i got planning for the house solely on my own as she is not from the area (gaeltacht)
We got a joint mortage for 210000 to build and are about 10 years into the mortgage with another 20 years to go. The house is currently valued at 350000. Any advice on where i stand on this issue i work fulltime salary 35000 per year she doesnt work,
Thanks in advance

Xterminator

I am assuming you accept she has some interest in the joint property?

If she was a full time mom, the fact she was not earning a salary doesn't really make a huge difference. morally (and as far as the courts are concerned) full time Mom = equal contribution. So get rid of the 'she doesnt work' mantra -

I would imagine you will need to come to an agreement - or risk the court making a decision that doesn't suit either of you.

You need to talk to a solicitor.

Dave46

Hi thanks, the fact that i meant she doesnt work just means she has no salary, i understand it can be a full time job minding the school and kids etc.
If we were forced to sell the house which we hope not too would it be a 50/50 split once mortgage is paid off even though i supplied the land worth 150000? We have both name on mortgage but only mine on the deeds
Thanks

antimatterx

How come she gets to be the one to end up, but also have the audacity to tell you to leave? If shes not happy, let her leave.

She 100% has equity in the house, I'm not questioning that. But telling you to leave is not on.e

John Hutton

Dave46 wrote: »

Hi thanks, the fact that i meant she doesnt work just means she has no salary, i understand it can be a full time job minding the school and kids etc.
If we were forced to sell the house which we hope not too would it be a 50/50 split once mortgage is paid off even though i supplied the land worth 150000? We have both name on mortgage but only mine on the deeds
Thanks

Do not leave. You will end up paying the mortgage with the house not being sold until kids are finished education.

YellowLead

As was mentioned as solicitor will be able to give you advice as to what to expect. Also have a look yourself as cohabitation rights on the citizens information website. If you could come to an agreement without having to go to court that would be ideal - has your partner specified what they expect from you? As she does not work, she will be considered dependent on you and therefore entitled to maintenance for herself as well as maintenance for the children. The interest in the house is anyone’s guess, it might not be 50 per cent but it would be significant. Sometimes people come to agreements such as her living in the house with the kids until they are 18 and then moving out when the house is sold. It all depends.
But a solicitor is really the best port of call - you don’t have to jump into initiating anything but that conversation will give you a better idea of what to expect.

eastie17

Sympathies Dave for all involved but especially the kids. Someone has already said it, you probably do need legal advice, I dont think Boards allow recommendations for solicitors, not sure, but suggest you focus on getting a good one who will attempt to advice you on what do to before you go the legal route first. In other words a good solicitor is one who knows what the law says on this but will advise on on how to do everything else practical first before going that route.
Besides that, I have no experience of this area, but usual threads on boards like this from what I've read often dont help. You may get lots of well meaning answers but they will shift wildly and eventually end up judgy or start taking sides. I'd suggest focus on understanding where to get the best legal advice.
I'm presuming, from your post that the options of counselling, talking about the problems etc have been exhausted? What she is suggesting is the nuclear option but only both of you know the full circumstances so perhaps that has already been done.
Best of luck whatever happens, look after yourself and try and make sure the kids are put first in whatever happens although I'm sure that can be very difficult.

Dtp1979

YellowLead wrote: »

As was mentioned as solicitor will be able to give you advice as to what to expect. Also have a look yourself as cohabitation rights on the citizens information website. If you could come to an agreement without having to go to court that would be ideal - has your partner specified what they expect from you? As she does not work, she will be considered dependent on you and therefore entitled to maintenance for herself as well as maintenance for the children. The interest in the house is anyone’s guess, it might not be 50 per cent but it would be significant. Sometimes people come to agreements such as her living in the house with the kids until they are 18 and then moving out when the house is sold. It all depends.
But a solicitor is really the best port of call - you don’t have to jump into initiating anything but that conversation will give you a better idea of what to expect.

I understand he’d have to pay maintenance for the kids but the notion he’d have to fund her too is outrageous. Or that he should move out of his home when she’s the one that wants to end things and when he owns the site. Let her move out and get a job and her own place and share custody. Women in the eyes of family law really do have it good in this country.

Xterminator

OP has been asked to leave!

But i agree he should not leave at the present time, if asked. It would weaken his legal position.

OP the site value is probably not written in stone. I think it should be a consideration, sure. You need legal advice, but i also advise you try to keep on good terms with the mother of your children, and seek a reasonable mediated agreement in regards to disposal of assets.

If you can both agree a figure you can live with, and living arrangements going forward, that will be in everyone favour.

John Hutton

Xterminator wrote: »

No where has the Op suggested he has been asked to leave?

But i agree he should not leave at the present time, if asked. It would weaken his legal position.

OP the site value is probably not written in stone. I think it should be a consideration, sure. You need legal advice, but i also advise you try to keep on good terms with the mother of your children, and seek a reasonable mediated agreement in regards to disposal of assets.

If you can both agree a figure you can live with, and living arrangements going forward, that will be in everyone favour.

First sentence of OP

Dave46

Hi yes she does want me to leave, the most important thing is that the kids stay in the house, , i cant afford to move out at the moment as its in the earky stages and ive no where to go, what would be the case when it came to mortgage and bills etc? Woukd it be a 50/50 split?

John Hutton

Dave46 wrote: »

Hi yes she does want me to leave, the most important thing is that the kids stay in the house, , i cant afford to move out at the moment as its in the earky stages and ive no where to go, what would be the case when it came to mortgage and bills etc? Woukd it be a 50/50 split?

If it goes to court probably not (although none pf us can really say) as she does not have a job. You will end up paying the majority.


Your best case here is to work out something amicable among yourselves.

kravmaga

Dave46 wrote: »

My girlfriend has decided she wants to break up with me and me to move out, we are not married but we have 2 children together,
I was given the site by my father worth 150000 at the time i got planning for the house solely on my own as she is not from the area (gaeltacht)
We got a joint mortage for 210000 to build and are about 10 years into the mortgage with another 20 years to go. The house is currently valued at 350000. Any advice on where i stand on this issue i work fulltime salary 35000 per year she doesnt work,
Thanks in advance

1st of all under no circumstances move out, you mention in your 1st paragraph, me to move out, dont do that. Move into a spare room instead.

Get onto a solicitor asap for legal advice.

Whose name are on the deeds of the property? She cannot force you to move out.

Dave46

We have a joint mortgage but only my name on the deeds

SVI40

Dave46 wrote: »

Hi yes she does want me to leave, the most important thing is that the kids stay in the house, , i cant afford to move out at the moment as its in the earky stages and ive no where to go, what would be the case when it came to mortgage and bills etc? Woukd it be a 50/50 split?

Despite what many think, there is nothing in Irish legislation that specifies 50/50 split. The courts can split that assets the way they see best. The court's over riding concern is the welfare of the children. In many cases, the spouse / partner does not get maintenance, but each case is unique.

If at all possible, try to come to an acceptable agreement. BUT do not rush into anything. Your life is going through a very traumatic change. You will need time to adjust, and get use to this change. If you have to move out (I would not at the current time), you will then have to pay for your own accommodation and many other expenses.

Get a solicitor who knows family law, and preferably one that has a track record in it.

The very best of luck to you!

Ginger83

Dave46 wrote: »

Hi yes she does want me to leave, the most important thing is that the kids stay in the house, , i cant afford to move out at the moment as its in the earky stages and ive no where to go, what would be the case when it came to mortgage and bills etc? Woukd it be a 50/50 split?

Sorry to hear of your situation. I agree do not move out as your position is weakened. If you can come to an agreement do but do seek legal advice.

I seen a friend being made a fool of with the wife having affairs. A few told him but he didn't want to believe it. When it came out he agreed to leave and that was that. We seen him struggling trying to rent a room while paying a mortgage for a home he left. She could have worked as the kids were not young but chose not to. It was sad to see him not eating over the stress.

Not saying that will happen but keep out of court if at all possible. I wish you well.

LegacyUser

Separating is a difficult and messy business.
I am currently separating myself, So I appreciate that.
BUT if possible, try and stay calm, let the anger pass and put the children first.
I totally recommend having a chat with someone to help achieve this (counselling).
Would you try Mediation??


I think when I read some of the replies, I can see the hurt and bitterness.
Men think women are presuming they can have it all.... financially, house, children, maintenance and don't have to work...
Woman think men are looking for an easy out of this relationship, to pay as little as possible and or try sell family home and to start again.....


With no disrespect to the legal profession, they will be putting their case to you as aggressively as possible, and painting your partner's situation in the worst possible view. This gives them work and a lot of money. (For instance, my former Husband who was out of work for a number of years, was told by his solicitor to look for spousal maintenance. He said he would not consider this. MY solicitor also basically looked for the "dirt" on my EX, even though in Ireland we have a "no fault" divorce. MY solicitor was basically saying, she needed to know everything he might throw at me. That was one of the worst hours of my life. Thinking of head to court to belittle each other. I changed solicitor.) We thankfully went back to mediation, and are finding a path to separation without the pain and cost of legal battles. (You will still need to bring your mediated agreement to a solicitor to be converted into legal separation/divorce. But at a fraction of the cost.) I am not saying we have not both being angry and there is huge hurt still... but your children have to come first... think what will give them the best option and than go for that. I know it is hard, but they have to come first. Wishing you and your family the very best outcome for you all.

Dave46

As we will still be living together do you think this would be a fair split on bills

Out of our combined income i earn 65% and she gets 35% that would include all our bills plus mortgage we could then split anything the kids need and food, we could stiil have the joint account but my wages will go into my own account and i can transfer money every month

Dtp1979

Dave46 wrote: »

As we will still be living together do you think this would be a fair split on bills

Out of our combined income i earn 65% and she gets 35% that would include all our bills plus mortgage we could then split anything the kids need and food, we could stiil have the joint account but my wages will go into my own account and i can transfer money every month

You combined income? I thought she didn’t have an income?

Dave46

Dtp1979 wrote: »

You combined income? I thought she didn’t have an income?

Her jobseekers allowance per month

Rezident

antimatterx wrote: »

How come she gets to be the one to end up, but also have the audacity to tell you to leave? If shes not happy, let her leave.

She 100% has equity in the house, I'm not questioning that. But telling you to leave is not on.e

Because Family Law in Ireland is so biased towards the mother and so biased against the father and everybody knows it (and her female friends/solicitors etc. will have told her)?



80% of divorces are initiated by the female now, as they will get the kids, the house, the money, your future earnings etc. no matter how poor their conduct has been. If everything is not perfect in a relationship, instead of making it work, the woman can just leave early and take 'the lion's share' of everything. Hence the society we live in today, kids growing up without dads, anti-social, mental health issues, suicide etc. Family Law is so biased against fathers is makes a mockery of the whole legal "system".

Child custody, paternity fraud, false allegations, sentencing disparity, parental alienation, life expectancy. And they call it a "Patriarchy"!

mcgragger

Dave46 wrote: »

My girlfriend has decided she wants to break up with me and me to move out, we are not married but we have 2 children together,
I was given the site by my father worth 150000 at the time i got planning for the house solely on my own as she is not from the area (gaeltacht)
We got a joint mortage for 210000 to build and are about 10 years into the mortgage with another 20 years to go. The house is currently valued at 350000. Any advice on where i stand on this issue i work fulltime salary 35000 per year she doesnt work,
Thanks in advance

As another poster said don't leave. As soon as you do your legal position is weakened.

I know from experience.
My brother is in this very scenario.
Moved out and ever since he's paying for his mortgage his kids and his rented house.
He's penniless and has to accept another man in his house. He was told he can move to sell the house when his youngest child finishes education.
This means 3rd level also.
Don't leave.

Dave46

Ok so is my first step to see a solicitor or try and work out the monies between us ?

zerosugarbuzz

Would it be possible to turn the house into two residences so that you can both live there and still be part of the childrens day to day lives? Just asking as a lot of large one off houses in the country that I've been in are certainly large enough. Wouldn't seem fair for you to have to leave for no good reason.

tayto lover

Don’t go to any solicitor at all.
Go to one who is well experienced in Family Law.
An inexperienced solicitor could damage you.

Dave46

Well im not going anywhere for now, firstly cant afford it and want to be with my kids.
Im just worried about the dreaded chat about money and bills, she is still spending crazy money out of the joint account

Scienceless

As said repeatedly already, do not move out. Get legal advice from a suitably experienced solicitor.

tayto lover

Dave46 wrote: »

Well im not going anywhere for now, firstly cant afford it and want to be with my kids.
Im just worried about the dreaded chat about money and bills, she is still spending crazy money out of the joint account

Open your own account if she’s just spending to spite you.
You both will probably have to attend family mediation to decide who does what.

kravmaga

Dave46 wrote: »

We have a joint mortgage but only my name on the deeds

Then you own the property if your name is the only one on the deeds.

dohboy

Go to a solicitor. Don't take any other advice from here.

kravmaga

Dave46 wrote: »

Well im not going anywhere for now, firstly cant afford it and want to be with my kids.
Im just worried about the dreaded chat about money and bills, she is still spending crazy money out of the joint account

@ Dave46

Get whatever money you have out of the joint account asap before she blows it all.

You have got to take back control of your money. Get onto the bank in the morning, put a stop on the cards and freeze the account. If she has a credit card get it cancelled also and cut it up if you have to.

Set up a current account in your own name asap and sign up for a Revolut card, No fees on them.

Legal advice also , Citizens Information Centre have good contacts

https://www.revolut.com

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/property_rights_and_the_breakdown_of_a_cohabiting_relationship.html

www.flac.ie

Dtp1979

Dave46 wrote: »

Well im not going anywhere for now, firstly cant afford it and want to be with my kids.
Im just worried about the dreaded chat about money and bills, she is still spending crazy money out of the joint account

If she’s spending like crazy it’s because she can. Stop funding the joint account for a start. Open your own account

Geuze

Dave46 wrote: »

Her jobseekers allowance per month

JSA is means-tested.

Would she get much JSA as you earn 35k?

Dave46

Geuze wrote: »

JSA is means-tested.

Would she get much JSA as you earn 35k?

She currently gets 224 per week jsa, i spoke to a solicitor today he advised me to go through mediation although with covid there is a waiting list.

Dtp1979

Dave46 wrote: »

She currently gets 224 per week jsa, i spoke to a solicitor today he advised me to go through mediation although with covid there is a waiting list.

Mediation will be done via zoom or phone call.

Ginger83

Don't close joint account as it may look bad on your side, just stop funding it to the same level as this seems to be enabling wasteful spending.

TheBoyConor

Her not working and your name only being on the title deeds, and you supplying the site is entirely immaterial to the situation as the family law courts will see it.

As the poster above said, minding home and children full time is considered equal contribution.

It is unlikely that the house could be sold as the court will hold the best interests of the child above anything else, that is, that the children should remain in the family home until they are 18.
In the majority of cases the mother will have primary custody of the child, ie, remaining in the house too.

So, realistically, the most likely outcome if you go through the courts is that basically you will be asked to move out and pay maintenance and continue to pay the mortgage. When the youngest child turns 18 the house can be sold and the proceeds split between ye. The only other alternative that would potentially allow you to stay in the house is if you either buy or rent another suitable house nearby that she and the children can move to. However, I wouldn't be overly confident of the court approving such an arrangement, as they would need to be satisfied that it was in the best interests of the child, eg, if the new or rented house was closer to her family, closer to the schools etc.

Also bear in mind that ye not being married doesn't matter a fig. The Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010 means that ye are married in all but name. Courts will view the situation 99% as if ye are married.

Sucks for you, but that is the reality of these situations I'm afraid.

I think ye are better off going through the process in court. A mutual agreement is all well and good, as long as she remains amicable to it and abides by it. Problem is she could come back in years to come trying to ratchet up a better deal for herself after someone whispering "advice" into her ear, claiming that you coerced, bullied or otherwise pressured her into that agreement at a time when she was in a delicate and stressed place in her life, even if there were solicitors involved. This is a real risk, mutual agreements are dodgy and can be unagreed and challenged on a whim. I have seen it happen. A settlement dictated by the courts, even if less favourable, is much more secure and you'll have peace of mind.

Get yourself to a solicitor specialising in family law, separation and divorce. I might be shot for saying this, but if I were you, I, personally would make sure my solicitor was male. I know it is wrong to think, but I can't help but have the suspicion that a female solicitor would be, perhaps even unconsciously, slightly biased towards the woman, and might not put as much weight behind arguing for YOUR entitlements. To be honest, I would not trust them as much with my future. With such high stakes, I think I would take the battering of being called sexist in that scenario.

TheBoyConor

antimatterx wrote: »

How come she gets to be the one to end up, but also have the audacity to tell you to leave? If shes not happy, let her leave.

She 100% has equity in the house, I'm not questioning that. But telling you to leave is not on.e

The usual crack of lining up a situation of taking possession of the family home, then 6 months later she'll move in the local jockey. It is a textbook move.

2012paddy2012

Dave46 wrote: »

My girlfriend has decided she wants to break up with me and me to move out, we are not married but we have 2 children together,
I was given the site by my father worth 150000 at the time i got planning for the house solely on my own as she is not from the area (gaeltacht)
We got a joint mortage for 210000 to build and are about 10 years into the mortgage with another 20 years to go. The house is currently valued at 350000. Any advice on where i stand on this issue i work fulltime salary 35000 per year she doesnt work,
Thanks in advance

This is sad.
All the advice here is just that advice/ speculation.
A court will decide , what will happen here.
She had as much entitlement as if she was your wife.
Kids suffer.
Try keep pleasant . It is what it is.
You will have to assist with kids until 23 if in education.
That house is the family home. The welfare of the children will be paramount as it should be.
As to who lives with the kids , will be decided by the court based on the information before the court.
It’s hard to imagine that she will be put out of the house unless she is unfit.
Your most unfortunate, but , there is no upside to breakdown.
Not sure if ye go avail of mediation to try make some arrangements as suitable as possible to ye both. Difficult I know.
Otherwise , solicitors will be delighted to represent ye both , as it’s very lucrative, despite unfortunately ye not being able to come to some arrangements yerselves , they will haggle away till god knows when .

Dave46

I will contact department to start a mediation process but in the meantime is it a fair split of the bills and mortgage me 65% and her 35%, ive worked out figures and that seems to be a fair solution. We can split grocery and anything for the kids 50-50

TheBoyConor

Absolutely.

I can tell you, since he works and she is a housewife raising the children and their primary caregiver, she will 99.9% be given the right to remain in the family home. What reason would there be to have her move out? Barring she is a violent alcholic or deranged drug addict, which I am sure she is not, her being asked to move out is most unlikely. If she is a mother and a good mother, she will keep the children in the family home and himself must provide for them and for his own separate residence.

To be honest, I agree fully with that. The best thing for children is to remain in the familiar surroundings of their family home with the consistency and continuity of care given by their primary caregiver, their mother in 99% of cases. It is bad luck and a hell of a fall for the man of course, but that is just the way these things go. I think it is just the nature of things.

Dave46

We will bith be staying in the family home for now, id never expect her and the kids.to move out. Its just the finances i need to sort out fairly between us

TheBoyConor

What is the dynamic in the house now? What were the reasons she quoted as being the cause for wanting to break up?

2012paddy2012

Dave46 wrote: »

My girlfriend has decided she wants to break up with me and me to move out, we are not married but we have 2 children together,
I was given the site by my father worth 150000 at the time i got planning for the house solely on my own as she is not from the area (gaeltacht)
We got a joint mortage for 210000 to build and are about 10 years into the mortgage with another 20 years to go. The house is currently valued at 350000. Any advice on where i stand on this issue i work fulltime salary 35000 per year she doesnt work,
Thanks in advance

It’s really not your call. You need to agree everything with her , like , will she get a job? Childcare bills , where will you live? Who pays mortgage outstanding. Rent for your place. It’s never ending. If ye can sit down with a Pen and paper and do out a plan. Mediation is free. But from your point of view it tries to look at things from each of your point of views, with fairness being the idea. Not sure here is a good place to be.
Your head will be melted. Try sit down with her . Maybe mediation. Best wishes

Dave46

TheBoyConor wrote: »

What is the dynamic in the house now? What were the reasons she quoted as being the cause for wanting to break up?

Were actually getting on fine no tension or arguements she just wanted it to end the spark was gone!

TheBoyConor

It is all well and good suggesting her getting a job, but she would have no reason to? Why would she, when she can have her JSA/B and the other welfare supports plus maintenance. A woman is not obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour outside the home to the neglect of their duties in the home.

Oops!

Dave46 wrote: »

Were actually getting on fine no tension or arguements she just wanted it to end the spark was gone!

Post #38 ring any bells with you?

TheBoyConor

Dave46 wrote: »

Were actually getting on fine no tension or arguements she just wanted it to end the spark was gone!

Hmm. That is odd. No normal relationship or marriage of ten years duration has a spark after that long. Maybe she is buying into the hollywood version of marriage and thinks that there should always be sparks and flutters?

I think, and no offence, that the potentially possibility of there being someone else cannot be totally ruled out. Or at least that there is someone else being lined up. Not nice, but this happens all the time.

Mimon

Dave46 wrote: »

Were actually getting on fine no tension or arguements she just wanted it to end the spark was gone!

If there is no tension or arguments there is no reason for you to go.

If you have a spare room move in there if you haven't already and continue as you have been doing in terms of dividing mortgage, bills etc.

Widdensushi

Sounds like there is a chance to recover it, stay calm and see how it goes.