CONSTRUCTION LOCKDOWN JAN 2021

Stateofyou

With the government / Edu minister royally f'ing up with the plans for LC & SN students to return, construction sector seems to have gotten lost in the fray.

And will large clusters at work sites even be caught and reported on. Could the spread even be stopped. The test and trace system is on it's knees and not functioning properly. Site managers will have to ensure safety now and quarantining of close contacts.

BryanF

this the construction & planning forum, if you want discuss Anything other Than Covid impacts to construction go elsewhere, thanks

Stateofyou

Who isn't focusing on covid impacts to construction? Not sure who you are directing that at, if I'm being asked to go elsewhere.

sydthebeat

Stateofyou wrote: »

Who isn't focusing on covid impacts to construction? Not sure who you are directing that at, if I'm being asked to go elsewhere.

comments on teachers unions / dept of education decisions doesnt help the conversation here.

the situations are not the same therefore comparing risks isnt helpful or useful.

if the project is determined as critical or necessary and allowed to stay open, it obviously has to be in strict compliance with covid operating procedures

https://cif.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/CIF-Covid-19-Operating-Procedure-Report.pdf

the comment above about workers congregating in smoking areas is a prime example of how personal responsibility should be paramount in all this. Assess the situation and don't put yourself at additional risk.

personally i can see a load of guys ending up being either close contacts of known positive cases and having to stay away from work, and also having standard winter cold / flu symptoms and also having to stay away from work as well. Contractors can do nothing about a guy who rings in to say he has to isolate for 14 days cos his *insert immediate family member* has tested positive.

Stateofyou

sydthebeat wrote: »

comments on teachers unions / dept of education decisions doesnt help the conversation here.

the situations are not the same therefore comparing risks isnt helpful or useful.

if the project is determined as critical or necessary and allowed to stay open, it obviously has to be in strict compliance with covid operating procedures

https://cif.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/CIF-Covid-19-Operating-Procedure-Report.pdf

the comment above about workers congregating in smoking areas is a prime example of how personal responsibility should be paramount in all this. Assess the situation and don't put yourself at additional risk.

personally i can see a load of guys ending up being either close contacts of known positive cases and having to stay away from work, and also having standard winter cold / flu symptoms and also having to stay away from work as well. Contractors can do nothing about a guy who rings in to say he has to isolate for 14 days cos his *insert immediate family member* has tested positive.

In fairness no one compared risks. It was pointed out that the teachers union stepped up to the plate, suggesting that construction workers deserve the same in light of the covid impacts and reality we're in. In my opinion it's worth mentioning as the goal of any union in this dangerous situation should be to ensure the health and safety of their members. Not just some unions, all unions. In the Construction sector that risk doesn't seem to have been mitigated in line with the governments stated goal- to stop people moving and cut transmission to protect our health service and people.

I agree, good example with the smoking situation, that's ridiculous. How do people not know better themselves at this stage.

Are foremans/line managers requiring proof of a positive close contact?

BryanF

Stateofyou wrote: »

Who isn't focusing on covid impacts to construction? Not sure who you are directing that at, if I'm being asked to go elsewhere.

If you have a problem with a mod direction, use the PM function. Please read the forum charter before posting again. Thanks

For teachers union, or state of the government statements post here

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1865

ZeroSum76

Is there an official channel that someone can raise a query with, to determine whether or not a renovation and small extension job with a small family crew (2 people) can continue or not? Specifically with the question of clarification around 'nearly finished'.

Apologies if this isn't the right forum but I called to the local Garda station to ask and they couldn't say one way or another. Their advice was 'if it's outside 5km for the builder it's an issue, they can chance it if they like but they might get turned around'. I understand it's not really their call but I appreciated their response all the same.

FixitFelix

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

Is there an official channel that someone can raise a query with, to determine whether or not a renovation and small extension job with a small family crew (2 people) can continue or not? Specifically with the question of clarification around 'nearly finished'.

Apologies if this isn't the right forum but I called to the local Garda station to ask and they couldn't say one way or another. Their advice was 'if it's outside 5km for the builder it's an issue, they can chance it if they like but they might get turned around'. I understand it's not really their call but I appreciated their response all the same.

My brother is in the same situation( kind of) he is currently building and extension with wheelchair access for elderly person. And I think you are OK if you are doing work for , elderly, vulnerable or people with medical issues. I'm nearly sure any of these works are permitted. But I stand to be corrected

Metric Tensor

The legislation was published today. It answers the "nearly finished" question and clarifies the disability stuff is only for housing adaptation grant. The education stuff seems vague and I can't find reference to the foreign direct investment stuff. Here's an extract:

Health Act 1947 (Section 31A – Temporary Restrictions) (Covid-19) (No. 10) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

(2) Part 2 of the Schedule to the Principal Regulations is amended –

(a) by the substitution of the following paragraph for paragraph 5:

“Construction and development

The following services relating to construction and development:

(a) the construction or development of essential health and related projects, including those relevant to preventing, limiting, minimising or slowing the spread of Covid-19;

(b) the construction or development of essential educational facilities at primary and post-primary level, including school building projects, which will provide additional capacity for students or involve essential maintenance or refurbishment works in support of the continued provision of education;

(c) certain essential projects relating to the construction and development at Technological University Dublin Campus Grangegorman;

(d) construction or development of social housing, whether contracted by, or on behalf of, a local authority or an approved housing body, (including those properties in a housing development that a local authority or approved housing body has agreed to lease, or where a developer has agreed to transfer ownership to a local authority or approved housing body or agreed the grant of a lease to a local authority in accordance with section 96(3) of the Planning and Development Act 2000 (No. 30 of 2000)) where –

(i) the local authority, or the approved housing body concerned, confirms that the completion of the housing project is necessary to alleviate homelessness, overcrowding, the numbers in emergency or temporary accommodation and to facilitate transfers from emergency accommodation or other forms of social housing in order to prevent, limit, minimise or slow the spread of Covid-19,

(ii) the project is funded, or has been approved for funding, in whole or in part, by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, and

(iii) the project is scheduled to be completed by the 28th day of February 2021;

(e) essential works on vacant residential properties, owned or controlled by a local authority or an approved housing body, which are necessary to allow the property to be allocated to a household on the social housing waiting list, and which are scheduled to be completed by the 28th day of February 2021;

(f) works of adaptation relating to a housing adaptation grant paid in accordance with Regulation 5 of the Housing (Adaptation Grants for Older People and People with a Disability) Regulations 2007 (S.I. No. 670 of 2007) where the person in respect of whom the grant is payable consents to such works of adaptation being undertaken in his or her home;

(g) construction or development funded by the pyrite remediation scheme in accordance with the Pyrite Resolution Act 2013 (No. 51 of 2013) which are scheduled to be completed by the 31st day of January 2021 and where the completion of such construction or development is essential to prevent, limit, minimise or slow the spread of Covid-19;

(h) the repair, maintenance and construction of critical transport and utility infrastructure;

(i) the supply and delivery of essential or emergency maintenance and repair services to businesses and places of residence (including electrical, gas, oil, plumbing, glazing and roofing services) on an emergency call-out basis;

(j) housing construction and completion works ongoing on the 8th day of January 2021 where such works are scheduled to be completed by the 31st day of January 2021 and will render the home under construction capable of occupation by that date;

(k) construction and development projects necessary for the maintenance of supply chains in respect of services specified in subparagraphs (h) to (p) of paragraph 2 or information and communications specified in subparagraphs (c) and (d) of paragraph 9 but shall exclude general purpose facilities such as office accommodation and car parks;

(l) construction and development projects that relate to the direct supply of medical products for Covid-19.”, and

Stateofyou

Metric Tensor wrote: »

The legislation was published today. It answers the "nearly finished" question and clarifies the disability stuff is only for housing adaptation grant. The education stuff seems vague and I can't find reference to the foreign direct investment stuff. Here's an extract:

I wonder if that's been retracted now? Will some sites now have to close if so?

Metric Tensor

Stateofyou wrote: »

I wonder if that's been retracted now? Will some sites now have to close if so?

Absolutely no idea. Blind leading the blind based on cabinet decisions that try to straddle public health concerns and PR concerns.

eggy81

Stateofyou wrote: »

I wonder if that's been retracted now? Will some sites now have to close if so?

We’re open next week. Just told an hour ago.

COS2020

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

Is there an official channel that someone can raise a query with, to determine whether or not a renovation and small extension job with a small family crew (2 people) can continue or not? Specifically with the question of clarification around 'nearly finished'.

Apologies if this isn't the right forum but I called to the local Garda station to ask and they couldn't say one way or another. Their advice was 'if it's outside 5km for the builder it's an issue, they can chance it if they like but they might get turned around'. I understand it's not really their call but I appreciated their response all the same.

We are in the same situation. Called Dept of Housing and got a very clear answer that we can continue as the project started before 8th of January and will finish before the 31st of January.

ECO_Mental

Building a house at the moment and they started putting up the rafters this week and will only have them partly up. But I'm getting my builder back next week to finish it (well put the battens and felt and make it secure) as we felt it was unsafe to leave it for the next few weeks open to the elements. Checked with my PSDP and engineer and they agreed. I don't want to take the piss but if we got a big storm the gables could blow over. Who knows how long we will be out for. I think there is scope out there for making structures safe.

Speakerboxx

I have a about a weeks work to do in my house before I can move in. I have to get a stairs put in and electrician to finish some wiring in the house. I take it i can get this done as im am so close to moving in.

Speakerboxx

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Building a house at the moment and they started putting up the rafters this week and will only have them partly up. But I'm getting my builder back next week to finish it (well put the battens and felt and make it secure) as we felt it was unsafe to leave it for the next few weeks open to the elements. Checked with my PSDP and engineer and they agreed. I don't want to take the piss but if we got a big storm the gables could blow over. Who knows how long we will be out for. I think there is scope out there for making structures safe.

Some people will take the piss and work away right through the lockdown.

ZeroSum76

Well - after talking with my builder, we've reluctantly decided we need to close up. We both wanted to plough on... but we really have no choice. No way we'd be finished by January 31st. Going to be homeless now in May as the landlord wants us out for holiday season - great

Stateofyou

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

Well - after talking with my builder, we've reluctantly decided we need to close up. We both wanted to plough on... but we really have no choice. No way we'd be finished by January 31st. Going to be homeless now in May as the landlord wants us out for holiday season - great

What holiday season? Surely that's a massive assumption. How long have you lived there? I'm not sure a landlord can legally kick you out for that reason. Maybe contact the PRTB and check your rights?

sydthebeat

Stateofyou wrote: »

What holiday season? Surely that's a massive assumption. How long have you lived there? I'm not sure a landlord can legally kick you out for that reason. Maybe contact the PRTB and check your rights?

Eviction ban runs up until the end of April (currently)

Agreed about "holiday season".... It's highly unlikely for there to be any demand for holiday letting in May.
They landlord may be very grateful of a steady rent until the country fully opens again, which is very unlikely before Q3 2021

Damien360

Who ultimately makes the call for a site to remain open. Was on site Thursday last and foreman said they were considered essential by the client (new water testing lab in Cork) but his CIF representative told him they are not essential. Nothing Covid related in testing. Commercial lab. Site due for completion by 22nd January coming. Who rules the roost on this situation ?

Metric Tensor

I think every client/owner needs to decide (after getting appropriate advice) if their projects meets the requirements set out in legislation.

Whether the contractor is obliged to continue if the client deems the project essential is probably a contractual matter and would depend on the form of contract.

I believe the CIF are advising their members to get a written confirmation from their client and to provide a copy of this confirmation to the local Garda station whilst noting their intention to continue.

I would also personally advise any contractor to also confirm with their insurer.

Polkadotpjs

House beside us is undergoing a complete refurbishment and lads are back on site this morning. A whole team of them, lots of vehicles and not a face mask between them. Anyone know for sure that this isn’t allowed? Was hoping for a break from the constant noise with WFH but no such luck.

Biker1

Polkadotpjs wrote: »

House beside us is undergoing a complete refurbishment and lads are back on site this morning. A whole team of them, lots of vehicles and not a face mask between them. Anyone know for sure that this isn’t allowed? Was hoping for a break from the constant noise with WFH but no such luck.

Simple. They are breaking the rules!!!

ZeroSum76

Hard to say without knowing the circumstances.

Is it due to complete before 31st January? Is it social housing? If the answer to both is no then I would guess it probably shouldn't be going ahead but it's hard to say for sure.

If it's going ahead against the guidelines then that's grossly unfair on the likes of me, with a wife and 2 small kids, who faces the prospect of having nowhere to live in May because we're [us and our building contractor] doing the right thing.

sydthebeat

Polkadotpjs wrote: »

House beside us is undergoing a complete refurbishment and lads are back on site this morning. A whole team of them, lots of vehicles and not a face mask between them. Anyone know for sure that this isn’t allowed? Was hoping for a break from the constant noise with WFH but no such luck.

in addition to the above questions...

is it works subject to a housing adaptation grant ??

there are some reasons why work can continue..
but there are obviously unscrupulous builders and clients out there who will ignore public health advice.

Polkadotpjs

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

Hard to say without knowing the circumstances.

Is it due to complete before 31st January? Is it social housing? If the answer to both is no then I would guess it probably shouldn't be going ahead but it's hard to say for sure.

If it's going ahead against the guidelines then that's grossly unfair on the likes of me, with a wife and 2 small kids, who faces the prospect of having nowhere to live in May because we're [us and our building contractor] doing the right thing.

Absolutely not is the answer to both of those questions. It’ll take months for them to finish, it’s still a shell. Agreed it’s totally unfair for those like you who are playing by the rules.

I guess the question is, do I want to be that nosey so and so who reports them and upsets the neighbours? Possibly not....

ZeroSum76

Nothing wrong with a 'tentative enquiry'. But I know what you mean. I wouldn't be sure myself. Maybe they have a valid reason. If so then they should welcome someone making an enquiry as it gives them the opportunity to clear the air and dispel any misunderstanding about their right to go ahead.

BryanF

Some off topic posts removed.

The next poster who takes this thread off topic will be banned

There are other forums for discussing the state of covid/ people ignoring the government advise etc

Speakerboxx

My neighbour pouring floors today for his house. Thought that wasn't essential. Some people just wont abide by the law.

sydthebeat

Speakerboxx wrote: »

My neighbour pouring floors today for his house. Thought that wasn't essential. Some people just wont abide by the law.

to be fair, if they are pouring them because they already had the insulation / pluming pipework installed before the notification of the lockdown..... and leaving it that, that then i wouldn't be too hard on them.

no point leaving expensive insulation to get destroyed in the rain for 4 weeks.

if they have a block layer out after, then thats a different story though.