Homeowner need to evict difficult licensee - causing distress

Lantus

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I have some sympathy for her that 30 is too old to be house sharing unless you married or in a relationship. House sharing is great for your 20's.

At that age you should have some cop on and not be acting like a spoilt brat.

skooterblue2

Lantus wrote: »

At that age you should have some cop on and not be acting like a spoilt brat.

That is not a spoilt brat, that is mental illness. At a minimum its BiPolar, at worst it schizophrenia. Schizophrenia can be masked for a few hours. I feel the lisencee will become worse with the increased conditions of the lockdown.

Shelga

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I have some sympathy for her that 30 is too old to be house sharing unless you married or in a relationship. House sharing is great for your 20's. I would say she is deeply unhappy with some other aspect of her life and it is following her home.

She really needs her own accomodation. Living with an elderly person would not be an option either.

Agree with this. Every time I read a thread like this, it strengthens my resolve to never ever participate in the "rent a room" scheme when I finally get my own place! It's not worth it.

OP, you sound lovely. She does not. As others have said, kick her out immediately and make preparations in advance, like having friends ready to throw her stuff out.

If this woman called emergency services on me because I had not taken down the Christmas tree in my own house (!) I would give her 2 hours notice to get the hell out, and then I would call the police.

SteM

Lantus wrote: »

Assumes they haven't had a copy made at an earlier point. Lock change is always best for piece of mind.

Not at the cost to the lodger though. You can't just decide to take the money out of the deposit because you are making an assumption that there is a copy of the key. If the OP wants to change to locks it needs to be at her expnse, not the lodgers. That is part of the cost of renting a room in your home to people.

hesaidshesaid

berocca2016 wrote: »

I've been in this situation before, licensee seemed lovely in the interview..... then....

She basically moved her boyfriend in, cooked him 3 course meals every day so I couldn't cook, basically took over the entire house!!

Worse was her nocturnal activities, screaming the house down at 2 in the morning (luckily the bf could only last about 5 minutes) to the point where the neighbours complained! (Concrete built semi-detached so very hard to hear the neighbours at all). Gave first warning after this.

Nothing changed so gave 30 days notice to leave. Screamed the house down after me saying she signed a lease, got her Father to ring me threatening to report me to the tax authorities if I didn't let her stay (im an accountant im fully tax compliant, they also didn't understand that as a licensee they were not PRTB registered). The contract we signed is informal and not worth anything in law legally I could kick her out the next day but I was being nice.

So anyways an awkward 30 days passed until she left, full of her singing loudly at all times and her nocturnal activities continuing.

Moral of the story is to set ground rules at the start and check all references including a work reference! And don't be nice when dealing with her now, put the foot down so it isn't an awkward 30 days or whatever time period you seem to give, or just to make sure they don't make your life hell.

Interestingly enough about 2 weeks after she left I woke up to my tyres slashed in the driveway. NEVER AGAIN !

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
There aren't enough emojis for this story. Oh my god!

Lantus

berocca2016 wrote: »

I've been in this situation before, licensee seemed lovely in the interview..... then....

She basically moved her boyfriend in, cooked him 3 course meals every day so I couldn't cook, basically took over the entire house!!

Worse was her nocturnal activities, screaming the house down at 2 in the morning (luckily the bf could only last about 5 minutes) to the point where the neighbours complained! (Concrete built semi-detached so very hard to hear the neighbours at all). Gave first warning after this.

Nothing changed so gave 30 days notice to leave. Screamed the house down after me saying she signed a lease, got her Father to ring me threatening to report me to the tax authorities if I didn't let her stay (im an accountant im fully tax compliant, they also didn't understand that as a licensee they were not PRTB registered). The contract we signed is informal and not worth anything in law legally I could kick her out the next day but I was being nice.

So anyways an awkward 30 days passed until she left, full of her singing loudly at all times and her nocturnal activities continuing.

Moral of the story is to set ground rules at the start and check all references including a work reference! And don't be nice when dealing with her now, put the foot down so it isn't an awkward 30 days or whatever time period you seem to give, or just to make sure they don't make your life hell.

Interestingly enough about 2 weeks after she left I woke up to my tyres slashed in the driveway. NEVER AGAIN !

Utterly horrendous story and my heart goes out to you.

But there are many good stories and I have some amazing times and friends from renting a room. Needs a good character match though. It's close proximity living and that needs a very mature and considerate head at all times from the roomy.

berocca2016

Lantus wrote: »

Utterly horrendous story and my heart goes out to you.

But there are many good stories and I have some amazing times and friends from renting a room. Needs a good character match though. It's close proximity living and that needs a very mature and considerate head at all times from the roomy.

Totally I agree! Just I think its best the OP gets the licensee away ASAP. I was so stressed and its just not worth having stress in your home.

The licensee has no legal rights, just ask them to go! Its hard and awkward but you'll feel relieved once it's done!

Fol20

sorchanichionn wrote: »

Update


Please be aware I am sympathetic that she has asthma. But this woman sat in the room with the tree with a friend over just a week ago. Her actions make for constant tit for tat, its not like an adult home.



She rang emergency services over removal of the tree, emergency services told her they couldn't do anything, and to call the police to see if they can help. This was a message she sent to me. Now she was apologetic saying she knows I am sick and is just trying to find a solution.


This just escalates!!! My son is isolating with his Dad, and is not due back to me till 14th, but honestly I do not feel I want to bring him back into this environment.

Sorry I’m confused what the tree is as you brought it up twice. She sat in a room with a tree and called emergency services because you were removing the tree?

Either way. She’s a head wreck. Get her out ASAP. What are the terms of the contract that you signed. If there was no contract. I would be telling her to leave by sunday imo. I would show no Leniency to this type of person because of the actions she has show.

Pistachio19

sorchanichionn wrote: »

Update


She rang emergency services over removal of the tree, emergency services told her they couldn't do anything, and to call the police to see if they can help. This was a message she sent to me. Now she was apologetic saying she knows I am sick and is just trying to find a solution.

Tell her the only solution to her issues with living in your house, is for her to leave asap. No pandering to her. It's time for her to move on. Give her notice this evening and have her gone before your child is due home.

wench

Fol20 wrote: »

Sorry I’m confused what the tree is as you brought it up twice. She sat in a room with a tree and called emergency services because you were removing the tree?

She objects to the OP having a Christmas Tree and wants it removed

NewMan1982

Kick her out. She’s mental.

skooterblue2

Pistachio19 wrote: »

Tell her the only solution to her issues with living in your house, is for her to leave asap. No pandering to her. It's time for her to move on. Give her notice this evening and have her gone before your child is due home.

You should also include on the notice that you need the room for one of your kids.

punisher5112

Who would in their right mind have their Christmas tree still up.....


Serious note though you can have it up all year and she can do sweet f all....

You need her out asap

Mic 1972

A written agreement doesn't mean anything if you are renting a room in your own house. She doesnt' have a lease and you can get rid of her anytime with "reasonable notice".
I have done so many times before, you can involve the Garda if she isn't leaving

Mic 1972

Irish_peppa wrote: »

As 1874 says bizarely i have allways been maybe too nice to people and 90% of time got screwed mainly over with rent. My latest current lodger I was just proffesional with her and fairly stand offish as i was advised not to become too friendly and "keep it proffesional" with lodgers ,just very neutral convo with her. Dropped guard and got friendly had a few drinks a few nights with her went to pub a few times. She asked me for a loan of a few things... no problem, all good,
Funny thing she has never been on time with rent since we got friendly ! Late rent each and every month as soon as we became Pally. She has been there for 14 months never a minute late with rent Seems the friends status means she doesnt pay on time now:rolleyes: This month rent has been 7 days and counting overdue last month 11 days lol

I can relate to that, i also had similar issues with lodgers who I was friendly with. Now i keep my distance.

Curious1002

Oh my goodness, I felt sick reading 95% of the responses here calling the girl “old”, “nasty”, to tell her to “f@ck off”, to “kick her out”, to “call the cops on her”,” take her deposit” or “replace locks/call taxi from her deposit”, and many more ridiculous advice ….are you all out of your mind???
The woman/landlord says absolutely nothing whether this girl actually has a case about the dirty bathroom, like if she completely disregarded the claim. I shared a bathroom once with a dirty guy and cleaning after him every time I wanted to use the toilet was exhausting and nerve-racking. I was cool for a week, two but I was losing my peace after that, everyone would.
Why did you all want to learn about her age? Why does it matter? Someone commented that they have no sympathy for 30 y.o sharing a house - what a disgraceful comment. My neighbour shares 2 Bed flat with a 65 year old who just got divorced and had nowhere to go. Have you thought about such circumstances? Maybe knowing her nationality was important for you too so you could hang the entire foreign nation because of this girl?

The landlady knew what she was doing by allowing 2 tenants in…did she only hope for a quick cash and have 2 ghost people who never leave their room, never use a toilet, kitchen, never talk? If that’s what you hope for then you better quickly leave the property market.

The other tenant, who the landlady failed to acknowledge, might be a dirty individual and I believe the girl must have had lots of conversations with him before she called him a pig, if we actually believe the landlady that she really did. I highly doubt it but it looks good in the opening post supporting her case. I bet that locking the bathroom was for the purpose of showing the landlady the dirt he left behind. It’s a common sense conclusion, don’t you think?

The “kid” issue – I can imagine that this was not an individual occurrence but the mom got used to the noise and no longer hears it. While there are some responsibilities on tenants to behave with courtesy – this also applies to the landlady. Having a kid jumping and shouting around at 6am on Christmas morning because the kid got a new play-station, while tenants were forced to spend Corona-Christmas at their rented accommodation rather than going home, is no fun. Your lodgers are not related to you and don’t have to love your kid or share your enjoyment of being a mother. I bet that Christmas was a sad day for your tenants, did you take that for the consideration? You want to feel free in your own house then don’t cash in on renting spare rooms. You have a series of responsibilities and despite the limited rights given to the lodgers who live with their landlord, you still need to do the right thing, talk to them, explain things and not just get rid of people like they were trash.

The only part I may have agreed with the owner was the Christmas Tree. If the tenant has a strong allergy that causes major health issues, then the girl is free to find a new place with no plants around. Maybe there was some discussion in place when the girl told you about her allergy and you initially said the tree will be kept by a certain date but failed to honour the promise causing the tenant to make a remark? I would like to get the girl's perspective on the presented one-sided arguments.

As you read, I am very skeptical about the OP’s opening post with lots of critical comments about the girl and you all calling the lodger names shows the level of respect you have for people in general. Always take things with a pinch of salt.

Seth Brundle

Curious1002 wrote: »

rant snipped

Maybe read the opening post again as the cleanliness of the other tenant is described there.
As for your disbelief of the OP, I guess and with no disrespect, who cares?

Samuel T. Cogley

Lodgers are entitled to reasonable notice, the Citizen's Advice page was even linked in this thread.

That said she's a head case and needs to go.

dubstarr

Is she still there or is she gone op.

Samuel T. Cogley

dubstarr wrote: »

Is she still there or is she gone op.

Is the Christmas Tree still up? :pac:

Samuel T. Cogley

Mic 1972 wrote: »

A written agreement doesn't mean anything if you are renting a room in your own house. She doesnt' have a lease and you can get rid of her anytime with "reasonable notice".
I have done so many times before, you can involve the Garda if she isn't leaving

Yes it does. If you've specified a notice period in the contract then you're bound by it, absent the lodger breaking the agreement by anti-social behaviour / non payment and alike. If you break the contract the OP can sue on the basis of the contract and be entitled to damages which given how hard it is to find somewhere at the moment could amount to at least a couple of weeks in a hotel.

Gardaí will almost certainly say it's a civil matter and are very, very unlikely to get involved in an 'eviction' given previous issues last year. Only reason they would attend is a breach of the peace / trying to regain entry.

berocca2016

Curious1002 wrote: »

Oh my goodness, I felt sick reading 95% of the responses here calling the girl “old”, “nasty”, to tell her to “f@ck off”, to “kick her out”, to “call the cops on her”,” take her deposit” or “replace locks/call taxi from her deposit”, and many more ridiculous advice ….are you all out of your mind???
The woman/landlord says absolutely nothing whether this girl actually has a case about the dirty bathroom, like if she completely disregarded the claim. I shared a bathroom once with a dirty guy and cleaning after him every time I wanted to use the toilet was exhausting and nerve-racking. I was cool for a week, two but I was losing my peace after that, everyone would.
Why did you all want to learn about her age? Why does it matter? Someone commented that they have no sympathy for 30 y.o sharing a house - what a disgraceful comment. My neighbour shares 2 Bed flat with a 65 year old who just got divorced and had nowhere to go. Have you thought about such circumstances? Maybe knowing her nationality was important for you too so you could hang the entire foreign nation because of this girl?

The landlady knew what she was doing by allowing 2 tenants in…did she only hope for a quick cash and have 2 ghost people who never leave their room, never use a toilet, kitchen, never talk? If that’s what you hope for then you better quickly leave the property market.

The other tenant, who the landlady failed to acknowledge, might be a dirty individual and I believe the girl must have had lots of conversations with him before she called him a pig, if we actually believe the landlady that she really did. I highly doubt it but it looks good in the opening post supporting her case. I bet that locking the bathroom was for the purpose of showing the landlady the dirt he left behind. It’s a common sense conclusion, don’t you think?

The “kid” issue – I can imagine that this was not an individual occurrence but the mom got used to the noise and no longer hears it. While there are some responsibilities on tenants to behave with courtesy – this also applies to the landlady. Having a kid jumping and shouting around at 6am on Christmas morning because the kid got a new play-station, while tenants were forced to spend Corona-Christmas at their rented accommodation rather than going home, is no fun. Your lodgers are not related to you and don’t have to love your kid or share your enjoyment of being a mother. I bet that Christmas was a sad day for your tenants, did you take that for the consideration? You want to feel free in your own house then don’t cash in on renting spare rooms. You have a series of responsibilities and despite the limited rights given to the lodgers who live with their landlord, you still need to do the right thing, talk to them, explain things and not just get rid of people like they were trash.

The only part I may have agreed with the owner was the Christmas Tree. If the tenant has a strong allergy that causes major health issues, then the girl is free to find a new place with no plants around. Maybe there was some discussion in place when the girl told you about her allergy and you initially said the tree will be kept by a certain date but failed to honour the promise causing the tenant to make a remark? I would like to get the girl's perspective on the presented one-sided arguments.

As you read, I am very skeptical about the OP’s opening post with lots of critical comments about the girl and you all calling the lodger names shows the level of respect you have for people in general. Always take things with a pinch of salt.

Before you critise the OP, I think you need to realise that both parties entered into an arms length agreement in good faith.

The licensee knew that there was children in the house, therefore one could ask is it reasonable for her to complain about said children once she moves into the house?

You also can't attack the OP with "Common sense conclusions" when the OP is quite clear in that the secondary licensee is clean and that locking the bathroom is an act of aggression.

As for the OP being in the "property market" to make some "quick cash", you have made conclusions about the OP, we don't know anyone's circumstances so considering your post it's slightly hypocritical to judge the OP?

In relation to the Christmas tree, do you actually believe its reasonable to ring our covid strained emergency services to complain that no one will take it down?

berocca2016

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Yes it does. If you've specified a notice period in the contract then you're bound by it, absent the lodger breaking the agreement by anti-social behaviour / non payment and alike. If you break the contract the OP can sue on the basis of the contract and be entitled to damages which given how hard it is to find somewhere at the moment could amount to at least a couple of weeks in a hotel.

Gardaí will almost certainly say it's a civil matter and are very, very unlikely to get involved in an 'eviction' given previous issues last year. Only reason they would attend is a breach of the peace / trying to regain entry.

This is false advice, the written contract between the OP and the licensee only serves as guidelines. It is not legally valid. It is not a lease.

An example of the same legal status would be booking into a B&B for a week, then being asked to leave despite you having pooed in the hallway on the second night, then suing the B&B because they asked you to leave!

As long as the OP gives reasonable notice (which has not been defined in law, but is usually taken as the payment frequency of the rent, but not necessarily), and does not owe the licensee money for rent/deposit prepaid they are fully within their rights to ask them to leave at any time.

berocca2016

berocca2016 wrote: »

This is false advice, the written contract between the OP and the licensee only serves as guidelines. It is not legally valid. It is not a lease.

An example of the same legal status would be booking into a B&B for a week, then being asked to leave despite you having pooed in the hallway on the second night, then suing the B&B because they asked you to leave!

As long as the OP gives reasonable notice (which has not been defined in law, but is usually taken as the payment frequency of the rent, but not necessarily), and does not owe the licensee money for rent/deposit prepaid they are fully within their rights to ask them to leave at any time.

Not false, maybe misguided, sorry!

Samuel T. Cogley

berocca2016 wrote: »

This is false advice, the written contract between the OP and the licensee only serves as guidelines. It is not legally valid. It is not a lease.

An example of the same legal status would be booking into a B&B for a week, then being asked to leave despite you having pooed in the hallway on the second night, then suing the B&B because they asked you to leave!

As long as the OP gives reasonable notice (which has not been defined in law, but is usually taken as the payment frequency of the rent, but not necessarily), and does not owe the licensee money for rent/deposit prepaid they are fully within their rights to ask them to leave at any time.

It's simple contract it doesn't need to be a lease. Your example is not the same thing at all, you've given the B&B cause to ask you to leave. If you've turned up, booked in and you're asked to leave through no fault of your own you can indeed seek recourse absent a specific clause in the contract, which may fall foul of unfair terms.

berocca2016

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

It's simple contract it doesn't need to be a lease. Your example is not the same thing at all, you've given the B&B cause to ask you to leave. If you've turned up, booked in and you're asked to leave through no fault of your own you can indeed seek recourse absent a specific clause in the contract, which may fall foul of unfair terms.

I got actual legal advice in the very same situation as this from a competent party (solicitor).

The B&B would of course have to refund you any monies paid. The only situation in which the licensee would be able to sue would be if the OP withheld the rent or the deposit that the licensee has paid.

Samuel T. Cogley

berocca2016 wrote: »

I got actual legal advice in the very same situation as this from a competent party (solicitor).

The B&B would of course have to refund you any monies paid. The only situation in which the licensee would be able to sue would be if the OP withheld the rent or the deposit that the licensee has paid.

You'd need to explain to me what part of simple contract isn't fulfilled here for me to be convinced of this. You've given an example that which doesn't fit the context and makes me question if the advice you sought was in this specific situation of no fault, where a specific issue has been agreed between the parties.

The parties have agreed something over and above the minimum required so there is no issue with it being an illegal contact.

Edit: Started a thread over in Legal Discussion to tease this out.

punisher5112

I'd get another Christmas tree.....

Mimon

punisher5112 wrote: »

I'd get another Christmas tree.....

Go and ask the neighbours for their old ones and have 2/3 in each room

Lantus

Mimon wrote: »

Go and ask the neighbours for their old ones and have 2/3 in each room

And continuously sing 'oh Xmas tree, oh Xmas tree.....'