Homeowner need to evict difficult licensee - causing distress

Mic 1972

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Yes it does. If you've specified a notice period in the contract then you're bound by it, absent the lodger breaking the agreement by anti-social behaviour / non payment and alike. If you break the contract the OP can sue on the basis of the contract and be entitled to damages which given how hard it is to find somewhere at the moment could amount to at least a couple of weeks in a hotel.

Gardaí will almost certainly say it's a civil matter and are very, very unlikely to get involved in an 'eviction' given previous issues last year. Only reason they would attend is a breach of the peace / trying to regain entry.

The Garda got involved in evicting one of my lodgers in the past, so yes they are familiar with rent-a-room and will intervene if required.
Rent-a-room is regulated by Irish law as per below. A written contract can't overwrite the nature of it.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/sharing_accommodation_with_your_landlord.html

NewMan1982

Curious1002 wrote: »

Oh my goodness, I felt sick reading 95% of the responses here calling the girl “old”, “nasty”, to tell her to “f@ck off”, to “kick her out”, to “call the cops on her”,” take her deposit” or “replace locks/call taxi from her deposit”, and many more ridiculous advice ….are you all out of your mind???
The woman/landlord says absolutely nothing whether this girl actually has a case about the dirty bathroom, like if she completely disregarded the claim. I shared a bathroom once with a dirty guy and cleaning after him every time I wanted to use the toilet was exhausting and nerve-racking. I was cool for a week, two but I was losing my peace after that, everyone would.
Why did you all want to learn about her age? Why does it matter? Someone commented that they have no sympathy for 30 y.o sharing a house - what a disgraceful comment. My neighbour shares 2 Bed flat with a 65 year old who just got divorced and had nowhere to go. Have you thought about such circumstances? Maybe knowing her nationality was important for you too so you could hang the entire foreign nation because of this girl?

The landlady knew what she was doing by allowing 2 tenants in…did she only hope for a quick cash and have 2 ghost people who never leave their room, never use a toilet, kitchen, never talk? If that’s what you hope for then you better quickly leave the property market.

The other tenant, who the landlady failed to acknowledge, might be a dirty individual and I believe the girl must have had lots of conversations with him before she called him a pig, if we actually believe the landlady that she really did. I highly doubt it but it looks good in the opening post supporting her case. I bet that locking the bathroom was for the purpose of showing the landlady the dirt he left behind. It’s a common sense conclusion, don’t you think?

The “kid” issue – I can imagine that this was not an individual occurrence but the mom got used to the noise and no longer hears it. While there are some responsibilities on tenants to behave with courtesy – this also applies to the landlady. Having a kid jumping and shouting around at 6am on Christmas morning because the kid got a new play-station, while tenants were forced to spend Corona-Christmas at their rented accommodation rather than going home, is no fun. Your lodgers are not related to you and don’t have to love your kid or share your enjoyment of being a mother. I bet that Christmas was a sad day for your tenants, did you take that for the consideration? You want to feel free in your own house then don’t cash in on renting spare rooms. You have a series of responsibilities and despite the limited rights given to the lodgers who live with their landlord, you still need to do the right thing, talk to them, explain things and not just get rid of people like they were trash.

The only part I may have agreed with the owner was the Christmas Tree. If the tenant has a strong allergy that causes major health issues, then the girl is free to find a new place with no plants around. Maybe there was some discussion in place when the girl told you about her allergy and you initially said the tree will be kept by a certain date but failed to honour the promise causing the tenant to make a remark? I would like to get the girl's perspective on the presented one-sided arguments.

As you read, I am very skeptical about the OP’s opening post with lots of critical comments about the girl and you all calling the lodger names shows the level of respect you have for people in general. Always take things with a pinch of salt.

There’s always one.

sorchanichionn

Hi Ladies and Gentlemen,

Thank you very much all for your replies.

I took the tree down on Friday. I did so when the licensee was out. She had asked on Wednesday, and I did 2 days later. I had advised I would do so on this day, but it was between then the police and emergency services were called by said person.

I was not trying to make a quick bit of cash, the other person was returning after Christmas but he lived with 2 nurses and they couldn't move him back in. I said I could offer a week, to help get him out of a tight situation, and be able to return to work. I agreed with all that strict hygiene measures needed to be kept, as I had an existing tenant also returning from his holidays

I have since tested positive for Covid 19, and hence licensee as a close contact has to isolate for 14 days. You can only take me at my word, but since getting this news, she has told me she won't be able to pay the rent, and that she warned me against this, and now we have to suffer the consequences. I am predicting I picked it up at work, but person said by me being away over Christmas that i have put her at threat, and brought Covid into the house.

And for those who critisise, I have been genuinely scared, there have been many personal remarks she has made, I just don't choose to put down here for privacy reasons.

punisher5112

It's your home not hers.

If you fear for your safety you need to call.

NewMan1982

sorchanichionn wrote: »

Hi Ladies and Gentlemen,

Thank you very much all for your replies.

I took the tree down on Friday. I did so when the licensee was out. She had asked on Wednesday, and I did 2 days later. I had advised I would do so on this day, but it was between then the police and emergency services were called by said person.

I was not trying to make a quick bit of cash, the other person was returning after Christmas but he lived with 2 nurses and they couldn't move him back in. I said I could offer a week, to help get him out of a tight situation, and be able to return to work. I agreed with all that strict hygiene measures needed to be kept, as I had an existing tenant also returning from his holidays

I have since tested positive for Covid 19, and hence licensee as a close contact has to isolate for 14 days. You can only take me at my word, but since getting this news, she has told me she won't be able to pay the rent, and that she warned me against this, and now we have to suffer the consequences. I am predicting I picked it up at work, but person said by me being away over Christmas that i have put her at threat, and brought Covid into the house.

And for those who critisise, I have been genuinely scared, there have been many personal remarks she has made, I just don't choose to put down here for privacy reasons.

Just tell her she needs to move out by X date. Have someone on standby should she kick off.
It’s your home she’s just a guest and you don’t need this stress. She’s acting like you are just a tenant too.

SVI40

sorchanichionn wrote: »

Hi Ladies and Gentlemen,

she has told me she won't be able to pay the rent, and that she warned me against this.

Out the door immediately, not your problem. She is taking you for a soft touch.

TheW1zard

Kick her out asap. Like in the morning

Lantus

You have been given a huge amount of advise now. Best of luck and I hope you stay healthy and recover swiftly. Prioritise your health and worry about this later when you are fit and strong.

Mrs OBumble

Curious1002 wrote: »

Oh my goodness, I felt sick reading 95% of the responses here calling the girl “old”, “nasty”, to tell her to “f@ck off”, to “kick her out”, to “call the cops on her”,” take her deposit” or “replace locks/call taxi from her deposit”, and many more ridiculous advice ….are you all out of your mind???

....

As you read, I am very skeptical about the OP’s opening post with lots of critical comments about the girl and you all calling the lodger names shows the level of respect you have for people in general. Always take things with a pinch of salt.

I've been having similar thoughts about this, and even wondering if it's all a big wind up - especially since the claim that the tenant separately called "emergency services" and "the police" - in the RoI, those aren't separate, and the latter are called "the guards" or the gardai.

Assuming that it is genuine, it sounds to me like the OP wants all the benefits of a digs situation (homeowner sets the ground-rules and doesn't limit children's behaviour), but has taken people in as room-mates rather than lodgers so they can avoid the disadvantages (cleaning, cooking and laundry). The room-renters most likely see themselves as more like house-sharing, and so would expect to be consulted about guests and about having smelly trees in the house.

Every story has at least two sides, and I suspect that if "the girl" (what a disparaging way to talk about an adult) posted her side of the story, the advice would be "Your landlord sounds crazy, you don't owe anything to her, find somewhere to go asap and get out. Since you're trapped there 'cos she brought Covid into the house, then only pay rent one week at a time."

Mjolnir

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I've been having similar thoughts about this, and even wondering if it's all a big wind up - especially since the claim that the tenant separately called "emergency services" and "the police" - in the RoI, those aren't separate, and the latter are called "the guards" or the gardai.

Assuming that it is genuine, it sounds to me like the OP wants all the benefits of a digs situation (homeowner sets the ground-rules and doesn't limit children's behaviour), but has taken people in as room-mates rather than lodgers so they can avoid the disadvantages (cleaning, cooking and laundry). The room-renters most likely see themselves as more like house-sharing, and so would expect to be consulted about guests and about having smelly trees in the house.

Every story has at least two sides, and I suspect that if "the girl" (what a disparaging way to talk about an adult) posted her side of the story, the advice would be "Your landlord sounds crazy, you don't owe anything to her, find somewhere to go asap and get out. Since you're trapped there 'cos she brought Covid into the house, then only pay rent one week at a time."

You can call a guarda station directly and speak to a local guard....

They are separate, 999 is for emergencies, if you want to find out if you can get a form signed in the local station you don't call emergency services.

Many none natives call the guards police, end of the day they are a police force.

Thats literally how a licensee/digs situation works

They aren't house sharing, they are a licensee not a tenant.

They are a licensee they have none of the rights of a tenancy that includes, decorations, ornaments or guests.

Why shouldn't the child be able to act like a child in their own home, that their parent owns...

Graces7

Mjolnir wrote: »

You can call a guarda station directly and speak to a local guard....

They are separate, 999 is for emergencies, if you want to find out if you can get a form signed in the local station you don't call emergency services.

Many none natives call the guards police, end of the day they are a police force.

Thats literally how a licensee/digs situation works

They aren't house sharing, they are a licensee not a tenant.

They are a licensee they have none of the rights of a tenancy that includes, decorations, ornaments or guests.

Why shouldn't the child be able to act like a child in their own home, that their parent owns...

Thank you for this. OP; you are a kind and gentle person. And those qualities are being fully and deliberately taken advantage of by this person as a "soft touch"

Wondering if Threshold might help? When I was in a sticky situation with a landlord they actually took over the negotiations in person and that was more effective than my efforts. A strong third party; oh it was also a man! That might avail in your case

Meanwhile, please look after YOU now.

the_pen_turner

She is denying the other licence access to a basic human right the toilet. . It's a service that he is paying for. .

That alone 8s enough reason to kick her out.
It doesn't matter how clean the toilet is .

Pistachio19

She can't go yet if she's isolating. Tell her now that she has to move out as soon as her covid isolation is finished - no arguements, no further discussion about it. She needs to go. I'd forego the rent just to get rid of her.

TheW1zard

OP is on the wind up

TCM

D3V!L wrote:

She's a guest in your house. Treat her as such and ask her to leave. You legally don't have to give her any notice at all.

Absolutely, however, inconvenient as it may be, you should change external door locks the moment she leaves.

Curious1002

Curious1002 wrote: »

Having a kid jumping and shouting around at 6am on Christmas morning because the kid got a new play-station, while tenants were forced to spend Corona-Christmas at their rented accommodation rather than going home, is no fun.

Anyone who is so sad that they feel the need to complain about an excited child on christmas morning - a once a year event - should live alone, or in a home where there are no children.

The licensee knew there was a child in the house when they moved in.

sorchanichionn

TheW1zard wrote: »

OP is on the wind up

I absolutely am not.

I am Irish and I guess the reason I wrote police, is from discussing it with licensee.

My mind is so frazzled right now I can't think straight

I don't deny it is also stressful for the other person, but if an arrangement is having this many issues, both parties should see its not working out.

TheW1zard

sorchanichionn wrote: »

I absolutely am not.

I am Irish and I guess the reason I wrote police, is from discussing it with licensee.

My mind is so frazzled right now I can't think straight

I don't deny it is also stressful for the other person, but if an arrangement is having this many issues, both parties should see its not working out.

Fair enough, you have every right to ask her to leave. Thats what you should do!

TitianGerm

Curious1002 wrote: »

Oh my goodness, I felt sick reading 95% of the responses here calling the girl “old”, “nasty”, to tell her to “f@ck off”, to “kick her out”, to “call the cops on her”,” take her deposit” or “replace locks/call taxi from her deposit”, and many more ridiculous advice ….are you all out of your mind???
The woman/landlord says absolutely nothing whether this girl actually has a case about the dirty bathroom, like if she completely disregarded the claim. I shared a bathroom once with a dirty guy and cleaning after him every time I wanted to use the toilet was exhausting and nerve-racking. I was cool for a week, two but I was losing my peace after that, everyone would.
Why did you all want to learn about her age? Why does it matter? Someone commented that they have no sympathy for 30 y.o sharing a house - what a disgraceful comment. My neighbour shares 2 Bed flat with a 65 year old who just got divorced and had nowhere to go. Have you thought about such circumstances? Maybe knowing her nationality was important for you too so you could hang the entire foreign nation because of this girl?

The landlady knew what she was doing by allowing 2 tenants in…did she only hope for a quick cash and have 2 ghost people who never leave their room, never use a toilet, kitchen, never talk? If that’s what you hope for then you better quickly leave the property market.

The other tenant, who the landlady failed to acknowledge, might be a dirty individual and I believe the girl must have had lots of conversations with him before she called him a pig, if we actually believe the landlady that she really did. I highly doubt it but it looks good in the opening post supporting her case. I bet that locking the bathroom was for the purpose of showing the landlady the dirt he left behind. It’s a common sense conclusion, don’t you think?

The “kid” issue – I can imagine that this was not an individual occurrence but the mom got used to the noise and no longer hears it. While there are some responsibilities on tenants to behave with courtesy – this also applies to the landlady. Having a kid jumping and shouting around at 6am on Christmas morning because the kid got a new play-station, while tenants were forced to spend Corona-Christmas at their rented accommodation rather than going home, is no fun. Your lodgers are not related to you and don’t have to love your kid or share your enjoyment of being a mother. I bet that Christmas was a sad day for your tenants, did you take that for the consideration? You want to feel free in your own house then don’t cash in on renting spare rooms. You have a series of responsibilities and despite the limited rights given to the lodgers who live with their landlord, you still need to do the right thing, talk to them, explain things and not just get rid of people like they were trash.

The only part I may have agreed with the owner was the Christmas Tree. If the tenant has a strong allergy that causes major health issues, then the girl is free to find a new place with no plants around. Maybe there was some discussion in place when the girl told you about her allergy and you initially said the tree will be kept by a certain date but failed to honour the promise causing the tenant to make a remark? I would like to get the girl's perspective on the presented one-sided arguments.

As you read, I am very skeptical about the OP’s opening post with lots of critical comments about the girl and you all calling the lodger names shows the level of respect you have for people in general. Always take things with a pinch of salt.

I think I found the tennant!!

MAJJ

sorchanichionn wrote: »

I absolutely am not.

I am Irish and I guess the reason I wrote police, is from discussing it with licensee.

My mind is so frazzled right now I can't think straight

I don't deny it is also stressful for the other person, but if an arrangement is having this many issues, both parties should see its not working out.

I would give a firm date after isolation. Be firm that any unpaid rent/costs come out of deposit. Key for bathroom immediately no debate or out the door straight away. You should have zero tolerance at this stage. I wish you the best with covid.

skooterblue2

TitianGerm wrote: »

I think I found the tennant!!

The Tennant is suffering from serious mental health issues. At the least Bi-Polar, if not Schizophrenia.

Read through the thread, these are not the acts of a logical person, it is someone with a serious mental health issues. The tennant is to more pitied than anything else as they cannot see the damage they are doing nor can they seek help for their condition.

TheBoyConor

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

All of the above is completely correct, but if you gave her a written contract, it may cause an issue

This is why I always avoid giving a written licence agreement - they could hold you to it. If there is no written licence agreement you are not really bound to anything particular and you can decide on a whim you don't like their company anymore and kick them out.

If I had a licencee who started acting the bollox and getting smart the notice time I would consider reasonable would be the length of time it takes their arse to hit the ground when they are ejected through the nearest door.

the_syco

sorchanichionn wrote: »

she has told me she won't be able to pay the rent

Check the contract you gave her; see if it mentions what happens upon non-payment of rent.

But due to COVID, you probably can't evict her, even if she doesn't pay anymore rent until the eviction ban finishes.

berocca2016

the_syco wrote: »

Check the contract you gave her; see if it mentions what happens upon non-payment of rent.

But due to COVID, you probably can't evict her, even if she doesn't pay anymore rent until the eviction ban finishes.

Eviction ban does not apply to licensees.

berocca2016

the_syco wrote: »

Check the contract you gave her; see if it mentions what happens upon non-payment of rent.

But due to COVID, you probably can't evict her, even if she doesn't pay anymore rent until the eviction ban finishes.

Also just to be completely clear. Contract does not apply to a licensee, only serves as guidelines.

Licensee can be asked to leave at the landlords discretion with reasonable notice. Any rent prepaid or unpaid which is disputed can be handled through the small claims court.

Let's not muddy the water and leave it at the facts of the matter.

dubstarr

skooterblue2 wrote: »

The Tennant is suffering from serious mental health issues. At the least Bi-Polar, if not Schizophrenia.

Read through the thread, these are not the acts of a logical person, it is someone with a serious mental health issues. The tennant is to more pitied than anything else as they cannot see the damage they are doing nor can they seek help for their condition.

Thank you DR :rolleyes:

roper1664

berocca2016 wrote: »

Eviction ban does not apply to licensees.

And just to add to this a licensee cannot be evicted, but instead asked/told to leave the homeowner's house. That's one of the reasons why the ban can't apply.

This is actually an important distinction. Just pointing this out for further clarification on this point.

1874

the_syco wrote: »

Check the contract you gave her; see if it mentions what happens upon non-payment of rent.

But due to COVID, you probably can't evict her, even if she doesn't pay anymore rent until the eviction ban finishes.

I have seen mentioned here and elsewhere, information relating to renting rooms/licensees using words like tenant,landlord,eviction,rent.
Comments like, "If you live with your landlord etc etc" All these kind of comments are incorrect.
If you live in the home of another person, a person is a guest, technically a licensee. I'd call a person who pays for that a lodger. You could say a room is being let. I correct it, if, someone said, landlord,rent, tenant.


There is no tenancy, one person is not a tenant, another is not the landlord, someone doesn't pay rent, a lodger/licensee can be asked/told to leave, but they wouldnt be evicted.
Most of the terms used for rentals don't apply, because there is no tenancy/rental etc.

None of the laws, regulations or guidelines that apply to Tenancys/Rentals apply to Letting a room/s in your home.



As for someone not paying, and not being able to get them out, thats simply just not true. Aside from the other stuff the OP mentioned (ie someone being unreasonably difficult or particular in an owners home), not paying would be the main reason to tell someone to sort that out on the spot or pack their bags.
I did throw a few people out (a small number), because they thought they could take the pi$$ in some way.



In a Licensee situation, that kind of thing has no reason to exist. COVID or not, in someones home, not paying can have you out in as long as it takes to walk through the door, anyone, lodger or otherwise who says or thinks differently is just wrong.

myshirt

You didn't help yourself by putting a contract in place, bit whatever the legality get this girl out on her ear. Deal with the fallout after. Mostly it will be just noise. Tell her she can go get fxcked.

juno10353

EddieSteele wrote: »

In case of evicting someone, yes I have contacted the Garda. And what? I can ask, no? Or is it not allowed to ask anything to anyone. Jesus Christ...

Is EddieSteele a second poster as not name of OP.
Feeling confused