"Security at Leinster House to be urgently reviewed in light of Washington riots"

flazio

seamus wrote: »

Nobody, anywhere, fires "to wound".

Absolute nonsense. Firing to disable is always the intent of law enforcement fire arm bearers. Otherwise the paperwork is horrendous.

Overheal

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Genuinely surprised that a mob could penetrate that far personally especially with the US and security but then I guess it's different when it's your own citizens and I assume there was no clear procedures on where to draw the line against an angry mob rather than an armed force of arabs of which they probably had lots of training for

However the population of the US is massive. Ireland just doesn't have the numbers of crazies required to storm Leinster. We're just not that sort of people as well. Sure the mother would be mortified to see us on the news

I would still say it makes sense for any government to see what happened in the US and to go over their security plans regardless.

The Troubles?

Overheal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

This is the woman on video marching' before she got shot.
https://twitter.com/B_Rich33NO/status/1347338691132403717

I don’t think she was going to kill anyone here.

I really don't give a ****. She's a terrorist, a traitor, an ex patriot, an enemy combatant, a dead piece of human waste. And I really don't care for the hand wringing about it. Not through race sex or creed, but through her own deliberate and considered actions.

And a ****ing moron to boot if she thought 3 million people were there.

mynamejeff

flazio wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. Firing to disable is always the intent of law enforcement fire arm bearers. Otherwise the paperwork is horrendous.

any expertise to back up this inaccurate and entirely wrong statement ?

firearms training ? qualifications ? even familiarisation outside of playing xbox or what ever

Any and all military and police organisation in the world outside of film and tv world shoot to hit centre mass ,this is not a secret

Get Real

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I don’t think she was going to kill anyone here

The officer behind the door didn't know that, and it appears, due to all the furniture behind the door, that was literally "the last line" so to speak, with senators in there. Could easily have had orders to fire too if anyone attempted to pass that line.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

think the officer had some time left to just wound her and he overreacted in the heat of the moment. .

Time? Time for what? From his point of view, he looked out that window and saw a crowd of people, from wall to wall, and extending back (people behind the cameras that don't show the depth of the crowd behind)

They had managed to get all the way there, 100s of them. As far as he was concerned, this was a coup, let one in, 100s would follow and overwhelm. He wasn't sure who had guns, who didn't, who had cable ties, what the mobs intentions were when they reached the room senators were in.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Fact remains there was a line of heavily armed police standing behind them all the time. From what I saw only 4 people were attempting to break down the door. Others were off to the side.

Again, the officer behind that door, had no clue what was going on. This had never happened before. He wasn't getting updates scrolling twitter on his phone.

For all he knew, those armed police were with the crowd? People were chanting about hanging and kidnapping various senators. Some brought guns, bombs and cable ties. Now, they're all idiots. But still. He didn't know if this was a conspiracy, what side those armed police were on, or if this was some legitimate attempt at a coup. How else do coups happen do you think, when people come armed with those things?

Let them in to the chamber, where senators were, what could have happened? If a man is pointing a gun, and giving fair warning, on your head be it if you decide to jump through that window imo.

You'll see how very quickly, all the chanting and buzz stopped. People actually realised they weren't in some sort of Call of Duty game.

Overheal

think the officer had some time left to just wound her and he overreacted

This is just a bad hollywood take on the situation.

She was wounded, anyway. Shot in the chest/shoulder. She died in hospital.

People actually realised they weren't in some sort of Call of Duty game.

But were still left confused and feckless, screaming for the medic, as though they just need someone to play healer and get a rez spell going.

Let them in to the chamber, where senators were, what could have happened? If a man is pointing a gun, and giving fair warning, on your head be it if you decide to jump through that window imo.

Different camera angles pick up different audio. The closest one you can clearly here them shouting about the guns drawn. There was no confusion about the presence of the guns. She was ex military too, she knows a gun is not just for show, especially at the ready. They can clearly see the gun.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/ksgvin/hes_got_a_gun_synced_videos_showing_woman_not/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

BattleCorp

Overheal wrote: »

I really don't give a ****. She's a terrorist, a traitor, an ex patriot, an enemy combatant, a dead piece of human waste. And I really don't care for the hand wringing about it. Not through race sex or creed, but through her own deliberate and considered actions.

And a ****ing moron to boot if she thought 3 million people were there.

Was she armed?

Overheal

BattleCorp wrote: »

Was she armed?

It doesn't ****ing matter

She could have been armed with build-a-bears. The security detail had NO WAY of knowing what the **** this psychotic human waste intended to do, or what she was equipped with, when she came vaulting through that opening. She could have been a suicide bomber. They were the last line between Senators and members of the house, if not the Vice President himself. We honestly don't know who all was down that hallway but that hallway was office after office after office.

BattleCorp

Overheal wrote: »

It doesn't ****ing matter

She could have been armed with build-a-bears. The security detail had NO WAY of knowing what the **** this psychotic human waste intended to do, or what she was equipped with, when she came vaulting through that opening. They were the last line between Senators and members of the house, if not the Vice President himself. We honestly don't know who all was down that hallway but that hallway was office after office after office.

Relax the kacks there boss. I'm agreeing with what you have said above. I'm just asking the question because I don't know.

Overheal

BattleCorp wrote: »

Relax the kacks there boss. I'm agreeing with what you have said above. I'm just asking the question because I don't know.

I am yelling at the spirit of people looking to vilify the capitol officer for doing his duty. Not specifically at you.

With regards to the evidence there haven't been any reports of what if any weapons she had. We do have confirmation that terrorists brought in bombs, molotov cocktails, firearms, and zip-cuffs, among other things, surely all manner of knives and concealed weapons.

If I seem upset it's because I know how close we came to seeing a Senator etc. hung from the balcony.

The Dail should also take note. There should be a Red Line. Anyone who wants to protest their government who storms past that line should be met with unquestioning lethal force.

tdf7187

To be clear about something important, Ashli Babbitt was not a terrorist. She was an insurrectionist, but not a terrorist.

Biden and others, including their supporters right here on this very thread, are deliberately lying about that, and no one on the left, or even the center-left, should let the lie stand.

A terrorist is someone who inflicts terror on a civilian population to advance political, ideological, or religious goals. There were no civilians involved a couple of days ago, except for the rioters themselves.

This was an assault on the government, not the civilian population. The distinction is important. Labelling anyone inside the borders of the USA terrorists could be used to justify arbitrary drone strikes on anyone the President deems a “terrorist.” This is far more likely to be used against the left than against right-wingers.

flazio

mynamejeff wrote: »

any expertise to back up this inaccurate and entirely wrong statement ?

firearms training ? qualifications ? even familiarisation outside of playing xbox or what ever

Any and all military and police organisation in the world outside of film and tv world shoot to hit centre mass ,this is not a secret

Direct conversation with a sergeant in the Armed Response Unit in my capacity as a Civil Defence 3rd officer working alongside An Garda Síochána during the Ballinasloe Horse fair in 2016.

Told me as well that the Guards are psych evaluated and anyone who fancies themselves as authorised state executioners are shown the door.

Overheal

tdf7187 wrote: »

To be clear about something important, Ashli Babbitt was not a terrorist. She was an insurrectionist, but not a terrorist.

Biden and others, including their supporters right here on this very thread, are deliberately lying about that, and no one on the left, or even the center-left, should let the lie stand.

A terrorist is someone who inflicts terror on a civilian population to advance political, ideological, or religious goals. There were no civilians involved a couple of days ago, except for the rioters themselves.

This was an assault on the government, not the civilian population. The distinction is important. Labelling anyone inside the borders of the USA terrorists could be used to justify arbitrary drone strikes on anyone the President deems a “terrorist.” This is far more likely to be used against the left than against right-wingers.

18 U.S. Code § 2331 - Definitions

(5)the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A)involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B)appear to be intended—
(i)to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii)to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii)to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C)occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States

It rings every bell.

ILoveYourVibes

eyeforaneye wrote: »

Notice in Irish Independent this morning: "Security at Leinster House to be urgently reviewed in light of Washington riots"

Nonsense. A lot of us in Ireland have issues with our politicians but to be honest none of them(not many anyway) descend to the imbecilic level of Donald Trump who single handedly caused insurrection to break-out on Capital Hill. Fears that groups could target Leinster House in a similar fashion to what played out in Washington overnight are baseless. Keep the focus on Covid and concentrate Government resources on expediting more vaccines into the country. We are lagging way behind Britain and the rest of the world and this will inevitably delay our recovery and increase short term unemployment.

Nothing wrong with being extra certain though.

Overheal

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Nothing wrong with being extra certain though.

One things for sure: after major violent events, there are never copycats.

ILoveYourVibes

Overheal wrote: »

One things for sure: after major violent events, there are never copycats.

I know.
There were even a few already in the states on other govt buildings.

Strumms

This country, The Republic Of Ireland.. is a Democratic Republic.

The current government is assembled and active under the provisions of the constitution....any attempt to usurp, undermine or overthrow a government by non democratic means ie violence... is terrorism.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/act/pub/0039/

The Garda Síochána, the Army, quite simply need to protect our democracy, institutions and the wellbeing thereof. If the Dail is attacked.. they simply use proportional force to protect it and our democracy... if that means deadly force, so be it.

ILoveYourVibes

Strumms wrote: »

This country, The Republic Of Ireland.. is a Democratic Republic.

The current government is assembled and active under the provisions of the constitution....any attempt to usurp, undermine or overthrow a government by non democratic means ie violence... is terrorism.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/act/pub/0039/

The Garda Síochána, the Army, quite simply need to protect our democracy, institutions and the wellbeing thereof. If the Dail is attacked.. they simply use proportional force to protect it and our democracy... if that means deadly force, so be it.

I don't believe for a second if it were Gemma O'Doherty or any one on the right that they would use full proportional force.

Believe it or not FF and FG scoop up some of those votes too.

biko

BattleCorp wrote: »

Relax the kacks there boss. I'm agreeing with what you have said above. I'm just asking the question because I don't know.

I saw the video, at no time did she appear to be armed.
She was shot while trying to climb through a barricaded door window https://nypost.com/2021/01/07/videos-show-shooting-of-ashli-babbitt-during-capitol-siege/

Annasopra

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

The point, Joey, is that you are oh so concerned about the far-right, that has no TD's, virtually no councilors, and next to no support, and rightly point out that the far left has sitting officials, so are far more powerful. Yet you view the far right as some huge threat. Ireland isn't America.

Members of the far left in Ireland have assaulted the Taoiseach, called for the nationalisation of large US MNC's and de-facto held a politician hostage in their own car. However do I view the far left as a massive threat to society? No, I don't. And as such, I don't obsess about them like you do the far right.

The biggest terrorist threat in Ireland (and as a result Europe btw) comes from far left groups, not far right ones.

Indeed. So far the far right in Ireland hasnt been burning potential DP centres or TDs cars or sending death threats to black people or beating up their oppenents violently with sticks. And nothing internationally either. They didnt kill people in Batley and Spen or Utoya or Christchurch. Nothing to see here.

ILoveYourVibes

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Indeed. So far the far right in Ireland hasnt been burning potential DP centres or TDs cars or sending death threats to black people or beating up their oppenents violently with sticks. And nothing internationally either. They didnt kill people in Batley and Spen or Utoya or Christchurch. Nothing to see here.

And they say this is not like America.

Signore Fancy Pants

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't believe for a second if it were Gemma O'Doherty or any one on the right that they would use full proportional force.

Believe it or not FF and FG scoop up some of those votes too.

It doesnt matter what you believe, politics will not enter the head of any member of AGS/DF if the need for force is to be applied.

Also the term "full proportional force" is contradictory.

corner of hells

flazio wrote: »

Direct conversation with a sergeant in the Armed Response Unit in my capacity as a Civil Defence 3rd officer working alongside An Garda Síochána during the Ballinasloe Horse fair in 2016.

Told me as well that the Guards are psych evaluated and anyone who fancies themselves as authorised state executioners are shown the door.

Was that the first Battle of Ballinasloe or the second one ?

ILoveYourVibes

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

It doesnt matter what you believe, politics will not enter the head of any member of AGS/DF if the need for force is to be applied.

.

This has been proven false last year.

Signore Fancy Pants

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This has been proven false last year.

Do you know what "full proportional force" is?

Also, please provide a link to whatever happened "last year".

BattleCorp

biko wrote: »

I saw the video, at no time did she appear to be armed.
She was shot while trying to climb through a barricaded door window https://nypost.com/2021/01/07/videos-show-shooting-of-ashli-babbitt-during-capitol-siege/

Yeah, I watched the videos of her getting shot and couldn't see any sign of her being armed. That is why I asked the question.

BattleCorp

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't believe for a second if it were Gemma O'Doherty or any one on the right that they would use full proportional force.

Believe it or not FF and FG scoop up some of those votes too.

Gemma O'Doherty is a nutcase. I'm fairly sure that the right are disowning her. She's in a category all on her own.........along with John Waters..............and yellow vests................ok, maybe not all on her own.

Annasopra

BattleCorp wrote: »

Gemma O'Doherty is a nutcase. I'm fairly sure that the right are disowning her. She's in a category all on her own.........along with John Waters..............and yellow vests................ok, maybe not all on her own.

Hmmmm well not really Yellow Vests have close links to Irish freedom party which is now supposedly merging with direct democracy ireland and renua.

Strumms

tdf7187 wrote: »

To be clear about something important, Ashli Babbitt was not a terrorist. She was an insurrectionist, but not a terrorist.

Biden and others, including their supporters right here on this very thread, are deliberately lying about that, and no one on the left, or even the center-left, should let the lie stand.

A terrorist is someone who inflicts terror on a civilian population to advance political, ideological, or religious goals. There were no civilians involved a couple of days ago, except for the rioters themselves.

This was an assault on the government, not the civilian population. The distinction is important. Labelling anyone inside the borders of the USA terrorists could be used to justify arbitrary drone strikes on anyone the President deems a “terrorist.” This is far more likely to be used against the left than against right-wingers.

Terrorisim : the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, in the broadest sense, the use of intentional violence for political or religious purposes.

The government are the people.. it was an assault on the government of the people, it was violent, it was terrorism.... no gray areas.

They were too cowardly to go after the White House, would have been more then one shot.

BattleCorp

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Hmmmm well not really Yellow Vests have close links to Irish freedom party which is now supposedly merging with direct democracy ireland and renua.

That leads me to believe they are all nutcases.