Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

hesaidshesaid

Richard tea wrote: »

Point is there is too much negativity posted on this thread. It time to suck it up and move on. Every other worker is trying their best to carry on best they can. Giving out about Government/Nephet or Norma decisions gets us nowhere. Time to get back to normal teaching standards.

Not sure why someone would read the thread if they didn’t find it useful.

History Queen

Richard tea wrote: »

Accusing me of trying to inflame the situation. It goes against boards policy. This thread will end up like and echo chamber with no debate.

You just said that teachers should stop discussing this topic and move on and now you want it debated? Which is it?

And taking your original question, if I'm wrong, and you don't intend to inflame, why would you ask that question in a thread about school closures? What relevance does it have? Perhaps I missed it?

JDD

Richard tea wrote: »

Point is there is too much negativity posted on this thread. It time to suck it up and move on. Every other worker is trying their best to carry on best they can. Giving out about Government/Nephet or Norma decisions gets us nowhere. Time to get back to normal teaching standards.

Ah c'mon now.

Yes health care workers are getting on with it. As they should. Two major differences though. They chose to work with sick people as a career and understood the risk that they may be infected by someone. And they get to wear full PPE while in work.

Yes, supermarket workers are getting on with it. As they should. Two major differences though. They are not in 20sq ft rooms for 5/6 hours a day with 30 other people not wearing masks.

Yes, meat factory workers are getting on with it. But they also wear PPE, so are protected from their colleagues.

As for every other worker? Well, the majority are WFH, and those that aren't are not stuck in small rooms with unmasked colleagues (I would hope).

So teachers are uniquely challenged here. I think its fair that they are challenging the decisions made about their working conditions. While my personal view is that children are not as infectious as adults, and therefore teachers are not at the same level of risk than if they were sharing a room with 30 other unmasked adults, I am open to being convinced otherwise.

And a discussion forum is for discussing. Don't post if you don't want to discuss the topic at hand.

KathleenGrant

DSN wrote: »

"What's going on in there" you'd swear was a hive of criminal activity. Poor kids.
So you'd rather your grandkids didn't go back to school yet then? So when? Cases not coming down kids missed enough in schooling now need a few weeks before they break up the summer.

Your first quote is not something i said all all Where did i say any of the things you wrote after after that? I never said i didn't want children in school What i said was that if it's ok to be in school it's ok for other activities. Outside games should be starting up again.

wirelessdude01

Richard tea wrote: »

Point is there is too much negativity posted on this thread. It time to suck it up and move on. Every other worker is trying their best to carry on best they can. Giving out about Government/Nephet or Norma decisions gets us nowhere. Time to get back to normal teaching standards.

So basically you are telling people to put up and shut up.

Nice.

History Queen

KathleenGrant wrote: »

Your first quote is not something i said all all Where did i say any of the things you wrote after after that? I never said i didn't want children in school What i said was that if it's ok to be in school it's ok for other activities. Outside games should be starting up again.

I think that's exactly the issue we are facing at the moment. No one believes schools to be absolutely safe (how could they be?) But people are struggling to see why, if schools are open, that activities at a similar, or maybe lesser, risk such as outdoor sports, can't go ahead, thus people are making their own calls on it and meeting up with more people, organising playdates etc.

If the Government were more explicit about the fact that they feel that opening schools is a calculated risk designed to offset the educational, societal and emotional damage of keeping them closed, they may have got more public and teacher buy in. Their incessant repetition of the meaningless "schools are safe" slogen has backfired spectacularly, both within and outside the education sector.

Fago123

I have a daughter in 2nd class and there was a positive case within 2 weeks of her starting back and the class has been unable to return for 2 weeks. Which will now stretch to a month with Easter holidays. And to be clear I am 100% in favour of schools re-opening, children in this country have suffered enough, it's paramount they get back to a regular education & routine (and no, a couple of zoom calls a week does not cut it).

I'll never be able to wrap my head around the slipperiness of NPHET around the school re-openings. Why can't they just be straight with us? "Yes cases are up and these are a result of schools re-opening but we cannot keep children away from their right to education any longer, the disruptions have to stop". And we could take that, we could understand the risk, we're not stupid. Sure there'd be some people who say close them down, or chose to pull their children out, it's not worth the risk etc but let's have a grown up conversation about it! But no, it's playdates. PLAYDATES?!!?

Messi19

Richard tea wrote: »

Dont be that person. Why not just answer my original question. Is it answerable

Feed the troll. Nom nom nom

Baggly

Richard tea wrote: »

Just out of curiosity if any teachers could answer this for me
. Out of all the industries and working sectors in the country right now, which should be shut down for safety reasons?

Richard tea wrote: »

I would imagine the vast majority here whinging are teachers. Or retired teachers.

Richard tea wrote: »

Dont be that person. Why not just answer my original question. Is it answerable

Richard tea wrote: »

Accusing me of trying to inflame the situation. It goes against boards policy. This thread will end up like and echo chamber with no debate.

Mod

Threadbanned.

km79

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0326/1206395-all-secondary-students-to-return-to-school-on-12-april/


Thanks to Emma O Kelly for confirming this to schools after they have closed for the holidays

vid36

April 12 is a long time away.

Loafing Oaf

vid36 wrote: »

April 12 is a long time away.

Or as a wise man once put it

combat14

by the looks of the govt may reopen the schools, the country will have to reopen too as everyone is breaking the covid rules anyway at this stage there is no point staying shut anymore

wirelessdude01

Just something I'm wondering after shopping today. Is there a movement to refuse to wear a mask? So many people in Aldi and Tesco today without masks on.

SCOOP 64

im actually yet too see anyone not wear mask in a supermarket.

0ph0rce0

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

im actually yet too see anyone not wear mask in a supermarket.

I see it in the shops every time i'm there, some staff are going over to them and telling them to put on their masks but most of the time they're just let carry on.

SCOOP 64

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

I see it in the shops every time i'm there, some staff are going over to them and telling them to put on their masks but most of the time they're just let carry on.

What are they trying to prove?

combat14

COVID WORRY Ireland ‘already in’ 4th wave of Covid as top epidemiologist warns full school reopening will cause R number to surge

"But this time around we've also got to be really more concerned about the kids themselves because the virulence rates for B117 for example, are much higher in younger age groups."

Prof Killeen said this "flies in the face of international evidence", and warned that a full reopening will cause a rise of 30 to 40 per cent in Ireland's virus reproduction number


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.ie/news/6765295/ireland-fourth-wave-covid-19-school-surge-r-number/amp/

Locotastic

combat14 wrote: »

COVID WORRY Ireland ‘already in’ 4th wave of Covid as top epidemiologist warns full school reopening will cause R number to surge

"But this time around we've also got to be really more concerned about the kids themselves because the virulence rates for B117 for example, are much higher in younger age groups."

Prof Killeen said this "flies in the face of international evidence", and warned that a full reopening will cause a rise of 30 to 40 per cent in Ireland's virus reproduction number


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.ie/news/6765295/ireland-fourth-wave-covid-19-school-surge-r-number/amp/

Schools are reopening, this needs to be accepted now. They already know all this and have decided to proceed.

ICU and hospital numbers plummeting, soon case numbers won't even matter. I personally can't wait for the day that they are reported more sporadically and then not at all other than some hspc document.

combat14

Locotastic wrote: »

Schools are reopening, this needs to be accepted now. They already know all this and have decided to proceed.

ICU and hospital numbers plummeting, soon case numbers won't even matter. I personally can't wait for the day that they are reported more sporadically and then not at all other than some hspc document.

why should it be accepted weeks in advance when some of the top experts in the country (e.g. Epidemiology expert Chair of Applied Pathogen Ecology at UCC, Professor Gerry Killeen) havent accepted it ...... 12 april is still along way away we will have to see what happens between now and then ...

irishproduce

Fago123 wrote: »

I have a daughter in 2nd class and there was a positive case within 2 weeks of her starting back and the class has been unable to return for 2 weeks. Which will now stretch to a month with Easter holidays. And to be clear I am 100% in favour of schools re-opening, children in this country have suffered enough, it's paramount they get back to a regular education & routine (and no, a couple of zoom calls a week does not cut it).

I'll never be able to wrap my head around the slipperiness of NPHET around the school re-openings. Why can't they just be straight with us? "Yes cases are up and these are a result of schools re-opening but we cannot keep children away from their right to education any longer, the disruptions have to stop". And we could take that, we could understand the risk, we're not stupid. Sure there'd be some people who say close them down, or chose to pull their children out, it's not worth the risk etc but let's have a grown up conversation about it! But no, it's playdates. PLAYDATES?!!?

I've said similar to friends of mine. As a state and as a society, we have to choose when to accept measured risk.
Do we risk it for concerts? No.
For pubs? No.
For sports events? No.
For holidays? No.
For the education of the nation's children? Yeah we could go with that and keep an eye on it.

aigne

irishproduce wrote: »

I've said similar to friends of mine. As a state and as a society, we have to choose when to accept measured risk.
Do we risk it for concerts? No.
For pubs? No.
For sports events? No.
For holidays? No.
For the education of the nation's children? Yeah we could go with that and keep an eye on it.

Why are we not doing more to manage that risk given the huge benefits of education? CO2 monitors, HEPA filters, classrooms where appropriate ventilation can not be provided to be taken out of use and alternative arrangements made, quality masks, weekly / bi-weekly antigen testing, vaccine prioritisation - all these things cost money yes but given the huge benefits of education surely worth it many many times over?

penny piper

aigne wrote: »

Why are we not doing more to manage that risk given the huge benefits of education? CO2 monitors, HEPA filters, classrooms where appropriate ventilation can not be provided to be taken out of use and alternative arrangements made, quality masks, weekly / bi-weekly antigen testing, vaccine prioritisation - all these things cost money yes but given the huge benefits of education surely worth it many many times over?

Obviously the government/dept of educstion don't think it's worth spending money on.....

aigne

aigne wrote: »

Why are we not doing more to manage that risk given the huge benefits of education? CO2 monitors, HEPA filters, classrooms where appropriate ventilation can not be provided to be taken out of use and alternative arrangements made, quality masks, weekly / bi-weekly antigen testing, vaccine prioritisation - all these things cost money yes but given the huge benefits of education surely worth it many many times over?

Simple answer is lack of funding.

Locotastic

combat14 wrote: »

why should it be accepted weeks in advance when some of the top experts in the country (e.g. Epidemiology expert Chair of Applied Pathogen Ecology at UCC, Professor Gerry Killeen) havent accepted it ......

Gerry Killeen.... Lol

TheTorment

TheTorment wrote: »

Simple answer is lack of funding.

And for lack of funding you are talking about billions there. Effectively the op was talking about retrofitting all classrooms to partial cleanrooms. You would be talking easily 10-20k per room as hepa filtration on your ventilation is no use without the proper air handling systems also. Unless you want the next scare in schools to be legionnaires

aigne

Deleted User wrote: »

And for lack of funding you are talking about billions there. Effectively the op was talking about retrofitting all classrooms to partial cleanrooms. You would be talking easily 10-20k per room as hepa filtration on your ventilation is no use without the proper air handling systems also. Unless you want the next scare in schools to be legionnaires

So how much have we spent on preventing airborne transmission in classrooms? I think close to Zero? How much could we do with 1k per classroom? CO2 monitor is €100, HEPA filter sized for a residential room is €170, so could scale that up for a classroom. Not as good as some sort of full fancy system, but better than zero. Antigen tests are maybe €2 each or less bought at buik. A nurse to administer would cost a few thousand per week per school. Has anyone done this analysis??

As for lack of funds, we are spending a fortune on this pandemic? A billion per month on supports alone?

Again, we hear time and time again about the benefits of in person education, I cant understand the lack of willingness to put in the measures to keep them open ?

aigne

aigne wrote: »

So how much have we spent on preventing airborne transmission in classrooms? I think close to Zero? How much could we do with 1k per classroom? CO2 monitor is €100, HEPA filter sized for a residential room is €170, so could scale that up for a classroom. Not as good as some sort of full fancy system, but better than zero. Antigen tests are maybe €2 each or less bought at buik. A nurse to administer would cost a few thousand per week per school. Has anyone done this analysis??

As for lack of funds, we are spending a fortune on this pandemic? A billion per month on supports alone?

Again, we hear time and time again about the benefits of in person education, I cant understand the lack of willingness to put in the measures to keep them open ?

I regularly have to buy Art/Science supplies from my own pocket to use in my classroom as there is no funding for it within our school above a very basic allowance.

Almost everything we need for our school has to be paid for through fund raising of some type.

If the Dept won't pay for everyday running of schools they're not going to fund the items you have mentioned.


.....especially when schools are safe :rolleyes:

aigne

aigne wrote: »

So how much have we spent on preventing airborne transmission in classrooms? I think close to Zero? How much could we do with 1k per classroom? CO2 monitor is €100, HEPA filter sized for a residential room is €170, so could scale that up for a classroom. Not as good as some sort of full fancy system, but better than zero. Antigen tests are maybe €2 each or less bought at buik. A nurse to administer would cost a few thousand per week per school. Has anyone done this analysis??

As for lack of funds, we are spending a fortune on this pandemic? A billion per month on supports alone?

Again, we hear time and time again about the benefits of in person education, I cant understand the lack of willingness to put in the measures to keep them open ?

The “home” filters are about as much use as a fan. For proper hepa ventilation the room must be close to a closed system

wirelessdude01

TheTorment wrote: »

I regularly have to buy Art/Science supplies from my own pocket to use in my classroom as there is no funding for it within our school above a very basic allowance.

:

I refuse to spend on cent on school. If it isn't there then we do without.

wirelessdude01

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I refuse to spend on cent on school. If it isn't there then we do without.

Yeah it's something that is going to stop. Norma put paid to any good will I had left.

am_zarathustra

Agreed, no one working in a school would believe that they would spend this type of money. We don't even always have whiteboard markers. We have one of the worst funded education systems in the OECD, even if the money was there I'd be furious if it was spent on this when the long term resources needed to deal with this situation will be left without.

Warbeastrior

aigne wrote:

Again, we hear time and time again about the benefits of in person education, I cant understand the lack of willingness to put in the measures to keep them open ?

This.
The shouts for in person teaching being pivotal but there's absolutely no interest in making these settings safer for all involved.

History Queen

Discussion onPat Kenny at the moment about schools. I only just turned it on so not sure of context but the reluctance to introduce additional safety measures such as testing is being discussed.

combat14

History Queen wrote: »

Discussion onPat Kenny at the moment about schools. I only just turned it on so not sure of context but the reluctance to introduce additional safety measures such as testing is being discussed.

exactly whats the point of sending kids in for 6 weeks of school when no extra safety meAsures introduced surrounding the new variant of the virus

Crocodile Booze

combat14 wrote: »

exactly whats the point of sending kids in for 6 weeks of school when no extra safety meAsures introduced surrounding the new variant of the virus

Babysitting and childminding. That's all.

Deeec

Crocodile Booze wrote: »

Babysitting and childminding. That's all.

Thats a huge insult to all teachers to belittle them that they are just babysitters.

wirelessdude01

Deeec wrote: »

Thats a huge insult to all teachers to belittle them that they are just babysitters.

What happens if if is considered to be partially true?

penny piper

Deeec wrote: »

Thats a huge insult to all teachers to belittle them that they are just babysitters.

It is a huge insult to teachers but lets face it to be honest there are an awful lot of people who give the impression that that's what they think teachers are....it's terrible to see the amount of insults thrown at teachers....

Deeec

penny piper wrote: »

It is a huge insult to teachers but lets face it to be honest there are an awful lot of people who give the impression that that's what they think teachers are....it's terrible to see the amount of insults thrown at teachers....

People do not see teachers as babysitters - they see them as educators.
Education of my children is so important to me and to most parents.

The argument that 'parents only view teachers as babysitters' is so boring at this stage and very untrue. Most parents value the teaching profession highly - some dont but the majority do. This argument constantly being raised by certain teachers is childish.

wirelessdude01

Deeec wrote: »

People do not see teachers as babysitters - they see them as educators.
Education of my children is so important to me and to most parents.

The argument that 'parents only view teachers as babysitters' is so boring at this stage and very untrue. Most parents value the teaching profession highly - some dont but the majority do. This argument constantly being raised by certain teachers is childish.

So who are these "certain teachers" that are constantly raising it?

penny piper

Deeec wrote: »

People do not see teachers as babysitters - they see them as educators.
Education of my children is so important to me and to most parents.

The argument that 'parents only view teachers as babysitters' is so boring at this stage and very untrue. Most parents value the teaching profession highly - some dont but the majority do. This argument constantly being raised by certain teachers is childish.

I have said constantly on here that I'm a mother of two secondary school teachers ...yet I am realistic and unfortunately some people (not the majority in any way at all) don't value the teaching profession highly at all...it's not an arguement at all ...it's a fact....

Deeec

penny piper wrote: »

I have said constantly on here that I'm a mother of two secondary school teachers ...yet I am realistic and unfortunately some people (not the majority in any way at all) don't value the teaching profession highly at all...it's not an arguement at all ...it's a fact....

Penny when you sent your children to school every day did you see it as a babysitting service to give you a break. Im pretty sure you didnt like every other good parent. I dont see any disrespect of teachers from people I know - it is a very small minority. It is a weak argument saying 'teachers are only seen as babysitters'.

There are many professions out there that are not respected. I work as an accountant. I also feel my profession is disrespected and sometimes we are seen as evil and unfair when we make decisions or calculate a tax liability - even though it is done in the interest of fairness and future planning. We cant win no matter what we do. Its fair to say most people hate their accountants!

Deeec

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So who are these "certain teachers" that are constantly raising it?

Look back over the thread. Plenty of references. These comments were not posted by parents. One was posted only this morning.

penny piper

Deeec wrote: »

Penny when you sent your children to school every day did you see it as a babysitting service to give you a break. Im pretty sure you didnt like every other good parent. I dont see any disrespect of teachers from people I know - it is a very small minority. It is a weak argument saying 'teachers are only seen as babysitters'.

There are many professions out there that are not respected. I work as an accountant. I also feel my profession is disrespected and sometimes we are seen as evil and unfair when we make decisions or calculate a tax liability - even though it is done in the interest of fairness and future planning. We cant win no matter what we do. Its fair to say most people hate their accountants!

Ofcourse, I didn't see school as a babysitting service...I actually didn't bring up any argument about teachers been seen only as babystitters"... I agree though with whoever posted that ...there are some people who use school purely as a babysiting service....
Regarding your profession ... I don't see the comparison you are bringing up..ie babysitting service/accountants/teachers

wirelessdude01

Deeec wrote: »

Look back over the thread. Plenty of references. These comments were not posted by parents. One was posted only this morning.

Is that poster a teacher?

DSN

penny piper wrote: »

I have said constantly on here that I'm a mother of two secondary school teachers ...yet I am realistic and unfortunately some people (not the majority in any way at all) don't value the teaching profession highly at all...it's not an arguement at all ...it's a fact....

Honestly maybe you should have discouraged your kids more fom becoming teachers it's clear it's you you think people don't value it high enough. I work ) while my kids are at school does that mean see teachers as 'babysitters' no it bloody doesnt. Teachers with kids do they see other teachers as babysitters no they don't. You are so condescending on here.

penny piper

DSN wrote: »

Honestly maybe you should have discouraged your kids more fom becoming teachers it's clear it's you you think people don't value it high enough. I work ) while my kids are at school does that mean see teachers as 'babysitters' no it bloody doesnt. Teachers with kids do they see other teachers as babysitters no they don't. You are so condescending on here.

I don't have that opinion at all...maybe if you read back to what I was originally replying to.....you are taking out of context what i have replied to...sorry...

Deeec

penny piper wrote: »

Ofcourse, I didn't see school as a babysitting service...I actually didn't bring up any argument about teachers been seen only as babystitters"... I agree though with whoever posted that ...there are some people who use school purely as a babysiting service....
Regarding your profession ... I don't see the comparison you are bringing up..ie babysitting service/accountants/teachers

Penny Im giving up on you. You dont seem to grasp anyone elses point of view at all or the points they are making.

All you want is for your two adult children to be back at home with you in Leitrim and not teaching in Dublin. We get it with your constant negative posts and digs at parents.;)

Im leaving this thread and wont be posting here again. Fed up of with the nonsense that is posted here.

JDD

Crocodile Booze wrote: »

Babysitting and childminding. That's all.

I'm not going to lie, opening schools is crucial for the economy's productivity.

But I'm not sure where the six weeks comes from? My senior infanter will be back for 17 weeks when they break up for summer. And my third classer will be back for 14 weeks. Are you just referring to 1st to 4th years?

And you can't completely ignore the fact that open schools have a hugely positive effect on children's mental health, physical health and the quality of education provided to them. Even if it is only for the seven weeks for 1-4th years.