Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

khalessi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Ohh hadn't heard that.

Saw it mentioned yesterday

penny piper

khalessi wrote: »

Wonder if one of these schools is where the teacher has been hospitalised

Doesn't really give out much information on these schools at all....I didn't see anything about teachers.....

khalessi

penny piper wrote: »

Doesn't really give out much information on these schools at all....I didn't see anything about teachers.....

Nope saw it elsewhere, not sure if one of these schools will go have a look again later

Stateofyou

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0303/1200810-dail-education-schools/

Masks aren't a runner in Primary. Neither is any other increased safety measure apparently.

penny piper

Norma Foley was asked today about mock exams for leaving certs....she stated that the dept has neither recommended/advised schools
should hold mock exams...instead schools have been asked to spend the remaining time to prepare lC students for the LC through in class tuition...
However she stated that schools can decide themselves if they want to hold mocks...

it all seems very confused...

am_zarathustra

penny piper wrote: »

Norma Foley was asked today about mock exams for leaving certs....she stated that the dept has neither recommended/advised schools
should hold mock exams...instead schools have been asked to spend the remaining time to prepare lC students for the LC through in class tuition...
However she stated that schools can decide themselves if they want to hold mocks...

it all seems very confused...

In fairness, it's entirely possible she hasn't read the advice from her department, not right but tracks with the general gist of what's been going on. The document is clear re mocks.

khalessi

am_zarathustra wrote: »

In fairness, it's entirely possible she hasn't read the advice from her department, not right but tracks with the general gist of what's been going on. The document is clear re mocks.

Oh she will have seen it

scamalert

am_zarathustra wrote: »

In fairness, it's entirely possible she hasn't read the advice from her department, not right but tracks with the general gist of what's been going on. The document is clear re mocks.

out of interest when you mean clear regarding mocks is it up to schools to decide ?

penny piper

Does anyone feel who is teaching LC students that the amount of time they are spending in school....they could be doing the same work/the rest of their classes online? .....

penny piper

scamalert wrote: »

out of interest when you mean clear regarding mocks is it up to schools to decide ?

Mocks aren't part of the curriculum so it's up to the school to decide ...

Icyseanfitz

penny piper wrote: »

Does anyone feel who is teaching LC students that the amount of time they are spending in school....they could be doing the same work/the rest of their classes online? .....

honestly for the majority of my students, yes. Theres a few optional subjects with project work to do but my 6th years seem quite anxious being back tbh.

am_zarathustra

scamalert wrote: »

out of interest when you mean clear regarding mocks is it up to schools to decide ?

From the document

6.5 What types of assessment may be used during this period?
If administering an in-class teacher-designed test, the test should be no more than one
lesson in duration (maximum one hour) and a maximum of three class tests may be
administered up to 14 May 2021. Examples of tests that may be administered are
written, oral, aural or practical tests.

6.6 What assessments should not be used during this period?
Information from the following should not be used:
 Self or peer-assessed work for which there is no oversight or role for the
teacher in assessing the work completed.
 Short written class tests of less than one class period that assess a limited
aspect of learning, for example, spelling or vocabulary tests.
Mock examinations (i.e. examinations involving full class groups sitting written
examinations under conditions that mirror those of the certificate examinations) are
neither required nor recommended for use as evidence for the Accredited Grades
process. The period following the return to in-school teaching and learning should be
used to maximise opportunities for teaching and learning with students.

We got pretty clear instructions from the union too (etb so TUI school, I'd assume the ASTI got similar)

You'd be hard pushed with these guidelines to run them and the unions have said they will happily intervene in any school that tries. Most I know have cancelled.

Now whether that's the right thing to do is another question

Locotastic

penny piper wrote: »

According to dulin live today another school in the south side of dublin has been closed from today until further notice....The school informed the parents that the children will be contacted by their teachers and will return back to remote education...
Not good news at all....

It is to be expected, schools or classes will close. Some due to cases spreading, some due to staff shortages because of covid.

It will be like this for the foreseeable.

hesaidshesaid

am_zarathustra wrote: »

From the document

6.5 What types of assessment may be used during this period?
If administering an in-class teacher-designed test, the test should be no more than one
lesson in duration (maximum one hour) and a maximum of three class tests may be
administered up to 14 May 2021. Examples of tests that may be administered are
written, oral, aural or practical tests.

6.6 What assessments should not be used during this period?
Information from the following should not be used:
 Self or peer-assessed work for which there is no oversight or role for the
teacher in assessing the work completed.
 Short written class tests of less than one class period that assess a limited
aspect of learning, for example, spelling or vocabulary tests.
Mock examinations (i.e. examinations involving full class groups sitting written
examinations under conditions that mirror those of the certificate examinations) are
neither required nor recommended for use as evidence for the Accredited Grades
process. The period following the return to in-school teaching and learning should be
used to maximise opportunities for teaching and learning with students.

We got pretty clear instructions from the union too (etb so TUI school, I'd assume the ASTI got similar)

You'd be hard pushed with these guidelines to run them and the unions have said they will happily intervene in any school that tries. Most I know have cancelled.

Now whether that's the right thing to do is another question

Have they given you any guidance on how to calculate the grades at all? If you can’t set tests do they expect you to be fortune tellers?
I taught at secondary level and as good practice would have set weekly tests on new vocabulary, new topics covered, practice questions for the exam etc. If they can’t do this, how can teachers possibly gather adequate data to predict a student’s performance?

am_zarathustra

We have the guidance from the document. It's basically whatever results you have, 3 one hour tests between now and may the 14th plus classwork, then your professional judgement. It's not an impossible task but the limits of tests will make it a bit harder.

is_that_so

Article in Nature on why schools may be less of a risk in all of this.

Data gathered worldwide are increasingly suggesting that schools are not hot spots for coronavirus infections.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02973-3

Stateofyou

is_that_so wrote: »

Article in Nature on why schools may be less of a risk in all of this.





https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02973-3

I believe this article was already posted and hashed out here.

Basically, it all comes back to your key word "may." They don't know anything conclusively from the data. It could seem they are less of a risk because of the mitigation measures in place. Or maybe because they tend to be asymptomatic and therefore under tested. Many schools have been closed. Etc. And this article is from last year, before there was a new dominant, more contagious and virulent strain so it's difficult to see how it's still relevant now.

There have also been articles and research posted here pointing to data that show schools and children are very problematic. We have Mike Ryan of WHO saying children aged 10 and older can contract and transmit the virus at least as well as adults. And that was BEFORE the new strain.

From this posted article, which similar sentiment is found in MANY articles about children and covid:

"Evidence gleaned from national COVID-19 statistics also has shortcomings. In the United States, for example, asymptomatic infections are still being missed because of policies that only people who develop symptoms are tested."

Neagra

why is testing necessary?
serious question.
surely hospitalisations, ICU numbers and deaths are the figures that should drive government response.
but if we are to continue with testing there should be a media ban on reporting of school cases, we have to stop scaremongering as it causing alot of needless pain for many teachers and parents.
if there is an outbreak in my local school only the immediate stakeholders should have a right to know. a couple of random cases across the country must not be allowed to be used for propaganda or fear mongering by dishonest parties.

shtpEdthePlum

Neagra wrote: »

why is testing necessary?
serious question.
surely hospitalisations, ICU numbers and deaths are the figures that should drive government response.
but if we are to continue with testing there should be a media ban on reporting of school cases, we have to stop scaremongering as it causing alot of needless pain for many teachers and parents.
if there is an outbreak in my local school only the immediate stakeholders should have a right to know. a couple of random cases across the country must not be allowed to be used for propaganda or fear mongering by dishonest parties.

Feckin hell are you having a laugh.

If there's a case in my school I want to know thanks. If there's a case in my child's school I want to know.

Your insane suggestion is basically how the HSE and gvmt has done things. Terrifying to be a part of, I have to say. We've had exposure to covid 6 times now between the two schools, mine and my daughter's. Knowing this (finding out through the grapevine) enabled us to act and protect ourselves. Some of our friends, colleagues and classmates weren't so lucky.

Tiredandcranky

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

honestly for the majority of my students, yes. Theres a few optional subjects with project work to do but my 6th years seem quite anxious being back tbh.

Are they essentially being forced back to school so? Is it the class tests that’s making them go in? Is there any option to do those from home?

Tiredandcranky

Neagra wrote: »

why is testing necessary?
serious question.
surely hospitalisations, ICU numbers and deaths are the figures that should drive government response.
but if we are to continue with testing there should be a media ban on reporting of school cases, we have to stop scaremongering as it causing alot of needless pain for many teachers and parents.
if there is an outbreak in my local school only the immediate stakeholders should have a right to know. a couple of random cases across the country must not be allowed to be used for propaganda or fear mongering by dishonest parties.

The problem is that not even the immediate stakeholders are being told. Their definition of close contacts is an absolute joke. The virus is airborne and yet if 30 children sit all day in a stuffy classroom with a Covid case, only those less than 1 meter(!) from the case are deemed close contacts, and are entitled to be told about the case. The rest are not entitled to be told and must hear it on the grapevine or not at all...it’s terrifying for anyone with high risk people in their household.

Neagra

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

Feckin hell are you having a laugh.

If there's a case in my school I want to know thanks. If there's a case in my child's school I want to know.

Your insane suggestion is basically how the HSE and gvmt has done things. Terrifying to be a part of, I have to say. We've had exposure to covid 6 times now between the two schools, mine and my daughter's. Knowing this (finding out through the grapevine) enabled us to act and protect ourselves. Some of our friends, colleagues and classmates weren't so lucky.

i am serious
how many cases have gone unreported due to asymptomatic symptoms?
way more then known cases i bet.
look think about it dispassionately - take the hysteria out of it.
my kids primary every child back and every teacher are back.
thats the real take away.
teachers and students are happy to be back .

Locotastic

Neagra wrote: »

why is testing necessary?
serious question.
surely hospitalisations, ICU numbers and deaths are the figures that should drive government response.
but if we are to continue with testing there should be a media ban on reporting of school cases, we have to stop scaremongering as it causing alot of needless pain for many teachers and parents.
if there is an outbreak in my local school only the immediate stakeholders should have a right to know. a couple of random cases across the country must not be allowed to be used for propaganda or fear mongering by dishonest parties.

It will happen eventually where we only test people who are admitted to hospital etc and the reporting will dwindle.

I completely agree on the school cases, Facebook groups in particular nothing more than gossip hubs for people with very little to do.

If there's a case in your kids class or school and you are impacted then that's all anyone needs to know.

khalessi

Locotastic wrote: »

It will happen eventually where we only test people who are admitted to hospital etc and the reporting will dwindle.

I completely agree on the school cases, Facebook groups in particular nothing more than gossip hubs for people with very little to do.

If there's a case in your kids class or school and you are impacted then that's all anyone needs to know.

Cases in schools need to lose the secrecy.

Test the child who had covid, test the children around them test the staff involved.

The only reason I can see for them not doing this as they are worried about asymptomatic cases being found.

If a child has headlice the whole class is told there is a case and most of the class, most if not alll are treated and no one knows who the kid with headlice is.

We have kids coming in announcing they had Covid or they are absent and they are telling friends on SM then friends are telling me x is out cos of Covid.

Get rid of the secrecy.

wirelessdude01

Neagra wrote: »

why is testing necessary?
serious question.
surely hospitalisations, ICU numbers and deaths are the figures that should drive government response.
but if we are to continue with testing there should be a media ban on reporting of school cases, we have to stop scaremongering as it causing alot of needless pain for many teachers and parents.
if there is an outbreak in my local school only the immediate stakeholders should have a right to know. a couple of random cases across the country must not be allowed to be used for propaganda or fear mongering by dishonest parties.

Name who you consider to be immediate stakeholders?

Neagra

khalessi wrote: »

Cases in schools need to lose the secrecy.

Test the child who had covid, test the children around them test the staff involved.

The only reason I can see for them not doing this as they are worried about asymptomatic cases being found.

If a child has headlice the whole class is told there is a case and most of the class, if not all are treated and no one knows who the kid with headlice is.

We have kids coming in announcing they had Covid or they are absent and they are telling friends on SM then friends are telling me x is out cos of Covid.

Get rid of the secrecy.

more secrecy is needed not less.
i love GDPR - a right to privacy is something i personally would fight for.

Neagra

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Name who you consider to be immediate stakeholders?

if a child tests positive - then the principal, the class teacher and parents of the child in question
if a teacher tests positive nobody outside principal.

khalessi

Neagra wrote: »

more secrecy is needed not less.
i love GDPR - a right to privacy is something i personally would fight for.

Good for you, then cases of measles, chicken pox scarlet fever slapped cheek, hands foot and mouth head lice and other reportable illnesses should all be not reported to schools?

No one is asking for child to be identified just illness reported.

Dont know why you would want more GDPR since yourself and others keep telling school staff it is nothing to be worried about

History Queen

Neagra wrote: »

if a child tests positive - then the principal, the class teacher and parents of the child in question
if a teacher tests positive nobody outside principal.

So not the parents of other students in the class? And currently the class teacher isn't necessarily told.

khalessi

Neagra wrote: »

if a child tests positive - then the principal, the class teacher and parents of the child in question
if a teacher tests positive nobody outside principal.

What about the students who have been in close contact with the teacher?

I sit less that 60cm from my students, should they be told if I test positive?