Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

wirelessdude01

Neagra wrote: »

if a child tests positive - then the principal, the class teacher and parents of the child in question
if a teacher tests positive nobody outside principal.

Well I know of three cases within our school before Christmas where the school was never officially informed. We were told by the parents themselves.

Class teachers aren't told in most cases, especially prevalent at secondary level.

Might be a need for a formal criteria to be out in place rather than the ad-hoc scenarios we find ourselves generally in.

wirelessdude01

History Queen wrote: »

So not the parents of other students in the class? And currently the class teacher isn't necessarily told.

If someone in the class gets nits all parents are informed so that they then can take the necessary precautions. I don't get the secrecy around covid. If there is a case tell the parents so that they are aware. Each house has their own circumstances. Let parents have the knowledge to make informed decisions.

History Queen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

If someone in the class gets nits all parents are informed so that they then can take the necessary precautions. I don't get the secrecy around covid. If there is a case tell the parents so that they are aware. Each house has their own circumstances. Let parents have the knowledge to make informed decisions.

Agree completely. The secrecy is creating a taboo as well as feeding the rumour mill and making people feel uncertain and unsafe.

am_zarathustra

Neagra wrote: »

if a child tests positive - then the principal, the class teacher and parents of the child in question
if a teacher tests positive nobody outside principal.

So Johnny is 7, he sits beside Mary......right beside her in class. 30 in the class and they are great pals so always together at lunch. Johnny tests positive and you think Mary's parents shouldn't be told. Maybe Mary's granny minds her after school, maybe her sister is undergoing chemo treatment for lukemia. Theres a reason that classes are told about measles, mumps, lice outbreaks, they are highly contagious. Jesus GDPR is a way of ensuring data management is up to scratch and you are protected from nefarious companies, it's certainly not meant to stop basics public health functions:eek:

We inform about chicken pox because chemo patients are susceptible to shingles and that's brutal and dangerous to a compromised immune system, I can't see what difference you really see here. And because parents have a right to know if their child has been exposed to a potentially infectious disease

Stateofyou

Neagra wrote: »

i am serious
how many cases have gone unreported due to asymptomatic symptoms?
way more then known cases i bet.
look think about it dispassionately - take the hysteria out of it.
my kids primary every child back and every teacher are back.
thats the real take away.
teachers and students are happy to be back .

Once someone equates a serious issue to "hysteria" I know they don't have a serious or valid point.

Who can answer your question, so why ask it? Obviously, glaringly obvious here, is the fact that the danger of asymptomatic cases not being caught allows it to be transmitted onward to someone who perhaps will not be ok. Many students and/or the family they live with are vulnerable with an underlying condition.
You say to look at it "dispassionately" and without "hysteria;" clearly it needs to be pointed out to you to consider the danger to many others here, just because you may not have an underlying condition and can't see it from another view. Or perhaps you're more comfortable playing roulette with yours or your children's health. Many are not.
Teacher's and students who are happy to be back does not erase the reality of risk.

And our school has a handful of students not back, guess what those points are called? Anecdotes.

Icyseanfitz

Neagra wrote: »

why is testing necessary?
serious question.
surely hospitalisations, ICU numbers and deaths are the figures that should drive government response.
but if we are to continue with testing there should be a media ban on reporting of school cases, we have to stop scaremongering as it causing alot of needless pain for many teachers and parents.
if there is an outbreak in my local school only the immediate stakeholders should have a right to know. a couple of random cases across the country must not be allowed to be used for propaganda or fear mongering by dishonest parties.

wow......just wow. So families of students or staff who would be deemed in close contact in any other setting should just be content in not knowing if there "bubble" has been in contact with a positive case within schools in order to reduce hysteria. What of those with high risk family members? i just cant wrap my head around such backwards logic

caveat emptor

am_zarathustra wrote: »

So Johnny is 7, he sits beside Mary......right beside her in class. 30 in the class and they are great pals so always together at lunch. Johnny tests positive and you think Mary's parents shouldn't be told. Maybe Mary's granny minds her after school, maybe her sister is undergoing chemo treatment for lukemia. Theres a reason that classes are told about measles, mumps, lice outbreaks, they are highly contagious. Jesus GDPR is a way of ensuring data management is up to scratch and you are protected from nefarious companies, it's certainly not meant to stop basics public health functions:eek:

We inform about chicken pox because chemo patients are susceptible to shingles and that's brutal and dangerous to a compromised immune system, I can't see what difference you really see here. And because parents have a right to know if their child has been exposed to a potentially infectious disease

Slightly off track but they've also used misused GDPR to cover people who were illegally adopted from seeing their actual birth cert. It's bizarre.

Icyseanfitz

as an aside, saying students/staff are happy to be back as if that makes everything okay is bs, I am delighted to be back, i am also very nervous and aware of the complete lack of any new safety measures in place.

Deeec

caveat emptor wrote: »

Slightly off track but they've also used misused GDPR to cover people who were illegally adopted from seeing their actual birth cert. It's bizarre.

Exactly GDPR seems to be used as a convenient excuse when it suits the situation. Those that use this as an excuse most of the time dont even know what GDPR is.

caveat emptor

Stateofyou wrote: »

Once someone equates a serious issue to "hysteria" I know they don't have a serious or valid point.

Who can answer your question, so why ask it? Obviously, glaringly obvious here, is the fact that the danger of asymptomatic cases not being caught allows it to be transmitted onward to someone who perhaps will not be ok. Many students and/or the family they live with are vulnerable with an underlying condition.
You say to look at it "dispassionately" and without "hysteria;" clearly it needs to be pointed out to you to consider the danger to many others here, just because you may not have an underlying condition and can't see it from another view. Or perhaps you're more comfortable playing roulette with yours or your children's health. Many are not.
Teacher's and students who are happy to be back does not erase the reality of risk.

And our school has a handful of students not back, guess what those points are called? Anecdotes.

We actually know a lot about the spread in schools by countries that have confronted the pandemic instead of pretending it's not happening. Incidentally they are also vaccinating at a far faster rate. Perhaps because they accept that schools play a massive role in the spread unfortunately.

Data is there but we don't have any data because we have decided not to look.

https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1321078130400870404?s=20

https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1321078141410889730?s=20

khalessi

Oh be careful even though Dr Zoe Hyde is a highly respected epidemiologist the naysaysers here disregard her as she puts her studies up on twitter. Prepare for a lyinching Caveat.

There is also Deepti Gurdasani who has done amazing research and spoke well during interview on BBC5 live recenty

Stateofyou

khalessi wrote: »

Oh be careful even though Dr Zoe Hyde is a highly respected epidemiologist the naysaysers here disregard her as she puts her studies up on twitter. Prepare for a lyinching Caveat.

There is also Deepti Gurdasani who has done amazing research and spoke well during interview on BBC5 live recenty

That argument is so ridiculous. Twitter is just a tool to release information, spread awareness, inform, allow debate, etc. Its as official a method as any other. :-s

Icyseanfitz

caveat emptor wrote: »

We actually know a lot about the spread in schools by countries that have confronted the pandemic instead of pretending it's not happening. Incidentally they are also vaccinating at a far faster rate. Perhaps because they accept that schools play a massive role in the spread unfortunately.

Data is there but we don't have any data because we have decided not to look.

https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1321078130400870404?s=20

https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1321078141410889730?s=20

just be prepared for people to tell you those arnt real countries :pac:

KatW4

Neagra wrote:

if a child tests positive - then the principal, the class teacher and parents of the child in question if a teacher tests positive nobody outside principal.

I don't agree with this. If I tested positive for covid, I would want the parents of my children to know. I teach in a Special Class so there is absolutely no social distancing in my room. Some of the children in my class are very medically vunerable and I think their parents NEED to know.

Likewise, I would need to know if a child in my class tested positive. I have asthma and my partner is a type 1 diabetic. I think it would be fairly important for us to know if we were in close contact with someone who tested positive.

deliege

Stateofyou wrote: »

I believe this article was already posted and hashed out here.

Basically, it all comes back to your key word "may." They don't know anything conclusively from the data. It could seem they are less of a risk because of the mitigation measures in place. Or maybe because they tend to be asymptomatic and therefore under tested. Many schools have been closed. Etc. And this article is from last year, before there was a new dominant, more contagious and virulent strain so it's difficult to see how it's still relevant now.

There have also been articles and research posted here pointing to data that show schools and children are very problematic. We have Mike Ryan of WHO saying children aged 10 and older can contract and transmit the virus at least as well as adults. And that was BEFORE the new strain.

From this posted article, which similar sentiment is found in MANY articles about children and covid:

"Evidence gleaned from national COVID-19 statistics also has shortcomings. In the United States, for example, asymptomatic infections are still being missed because of policies that only people who develop symptoms are tested."

This, too, very recently...:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/03/critics-slam-letter-prestigious-journal-downplayed-covid-19-risks-swedish

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

We actually know a lot about the spread in schools by countries that have confronted the pandemic instead of pretending it's not happening. Incidentally they are also vaccinating at a far faster rate. Perhaps because they accept that schools play a massive role in the spread unfortunately.

Data is there but we don't have any data because we have decided not to look.

https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1321078130400870404?s=20

https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1321078141410889730?s=20

Wow, only 5% of superspreaders were children in spite of schools being open and them being more likely to to have tested positive. Must be something to this safe schools message

https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1321078144594366465

seenitall

KatW4 wrote: »

Likewise, I would need to know if a child in my class tested positive. I have asthma and my partner is a type 1 diabetic. I think it would be fairly important for us to know if we were in close contact with someone who tested positive.

Take vit D and zinc supplements on a daily basis, both of ye. Everyone should be doing that at the moment, but especially people in situations such as yours.

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow, only 5% of superspreaders were children in spite of schools being open and them being more likely to to have tested positive. Must be something to this safe schools message

https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1321078144594366465

Schools have been closed since December. And super spreaders are hardly the main point?

KatW4

seenitall wrote:

Take vit D and zinc supplements on a daily basis, both of ye. Everyone should be doing that at the moment, but especially people in situations such as yours.

We are taking both. Thank you for the suggestion!

Neagra

a riddle for those who believe that teachers students and parents have a right to know if a fellow student or teacher tests positive in a school.

should those who work in retail like aldi, tesco etc, have a right to know if a shopper who visited their place of work tested positive
before you rush to answer have a real good think about the math involved
if your answer is no then you explain to me your reasons


Thanks

Warbeastrior

8 Dublin schools already reported cases.

Article on "Dublin Live"

penny piper

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well I know of three cases within our school before Christmas where the school was never officially informed. We were told by the parents themselves.

Class teachers aren't told in most cases, especially prevalent at secondary level.

Might be a need for a formal criteria to be out in place rather than the ad-hoc scenarios we find ourselves generally in.

In one of my children's school they just got texted( idk by who to be honest) just before school was about to finish @ christmas telling them that 3 children had just tested positive for coronavirus...luckily my daughter hadn't been teaching them....

penny piper

Warbeastrior wrote: »

8 Dublin schools already reported cases.

Article on "Dublin Live"

Was far too soon for these schools to go back.....should still be remote teaching..

Lisha

Neagra wrote: »

a riddle for those who believe that teachers students and parents have a right to know if a fellow student or teacher tests positive in a school.

should those who work in retail like aldi, tesco etc, have a right to know if a shopper who visited their place of work tested positive
before you rush to answer have a real good think about the math involved
if your answer is no then you explain to me your reasons


Thanks

If the shopper was beside them for 5hours then yes the retail staff should be notified.

Zaney

The problem with sourcing data off Twitter is that people can be very selective in what they post to suit their narrative. This can happen on any side of a debate.

I note in this journal paper from I assume the same Dr Zoe Hyde she makes liberal use of ‘may’ ‘could’ ‘potential’ ‘suggest’

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.5694/mja2.50823

From what I can make out the journal is peer reviewed. Twitter isn’t.

khalessi

Zaney wrote: »

The problem with sourcing data off Twitter is that people can be very selective in what they post to suit their narrative. This can happen on any side of a debate.

I note in this journal paper from I assume the same Dr Zoe Hyde she makes liberal use of ‘may’ ‘could’ ‘potential’ ‘suggest’

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.5694/mja2.50823

From what I can make out the journal is peer reviewed. Twitter isn’t.

Wow an anonymous internet voice versus reknown epdemiologist hmmm who to listen to it's a tough one!

Warbeastrior

Warbeastrior wrote: »

8 Dublin schools already reported cases.

Article on "Dublin Live"

Every single one of those caught the virus prior to returning to school. Cases are also now at the same level they were when all schools went back after autumn midterm

wirelessdude01

Neagra wrote: »

a riddle for those who believe that teachers students and parents have a right to know if a fellow student or teacher tests positive in a school.

should those who work in retail like aldi, tesco etc, have a right to know if a shopper who visited their place of work tested positive
before you rush to answer have a real good think about the math involved
if your answer is no then you explain to me your reasons


Thanks

Riddle me this. Do any of the above spend 5 hrs 40mins in a space with a single group of shoppers?

caveat emptor

khalessi wrote: »

Wow an anonymous internet voice versus reknown epdemiologist hmmm who to listen to it's a tough one!

Israeli ministry of health data or Zaney........tough one.

deliege

Lisha wrote: »

If the shopper was beside them for 5hours then yes the retail staff should be notified.

... 5 hours and no mask, little social distance, etc. etc.

[I believe correct and efficient tracing (involving mandatory phone apps to go anywhere) INCLUDING in shops and all venues are exactly the reason many Asian countries finds themselves in a much better position than our UE ones, btw].