Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

meath4sam

meath4sam wrote: »

Again I’m not here to tell teachers what to do.
And it not to suit me it’s to suit the kids education.
I never suggested teachers were not working. And that your choice I appreciate your opinion. I just looking at the options and if it’s a possibility.
I would not give up my holidays for my employer but I have moved them to suit at times.

From reading the rest of your post in this thread, in my opinion it sounds like you are here to stir it up.

Go find another bridge to sit under...this one is all full up

meath4sam

TheTorment wrote: »

From reading the rest of your post in this thread, in my opinion it sounds like you are here to stir it up.

Go find another bridge to sit under...this one is all full up

I am not here for that but if you think I am I will stop posting

But just to note I have still not been given a valid reason not to open schools, I’m sure the UK are looking at these options and wondering why we are not here in Ireland.

Which post is stirring it up?

A least it should be discussed?

Millem

meath4sam wrote: »

Again I’m not here to tell teachers what to do.
And it not to suit me it’s to suit the kids education.
I never suggested teachers were not working. And that your choice I appreciate your opinion. I just looking at the options and if it’s a possibility.
I would not give up my holidays for my employer but I have moved them to suit at times.

I don’t want school for my son during the summer. He is sports mad so will want to do cul camp etc.
My son is in Senior Infants too. I try and do some reading with him myself at home. We have some horrid Henry here and I bought a set of early readers on Amazon last year. There are loads of different ones you can get. Libraries have them too.

wirelessdude01

meath4sam wrote: »

I am not here for that but if you think I am I will stop posting

But just to note I have still not been given a valid reason not to open schools, I’m sure the UK are looking at these options and wondering why we are not here in Ireland.

Which post is stirring it up?

A least it should be discussed?

We don't even register on their radar and we shouldn't be looking to ape anything that they do either when it comes to education policy.

If you are that concerned that we have too many holidays and want them rearranged to suit your needs then I suggest that you contact your local politicians and put your case to them and see what response you get. No one on here has any influence.

DSN

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

We don't even register on their radar and we shouldn't be looking to ape anything that they do either when it comes to education policy.

If you are that concerned that we have too many holidays and want them rearranged to suit your needs then I suggest that you contact your local politicians and put your case to them and see what response you get. No one on here has any influence.

Don't think taking time off holidays would go down well with kids/students either. But am curious about the longer terms they have in UK anyway compared to here. In-law's shocked non exam secondary finishes end May as they all carry on til round 19th July with one week off in June. So am surprised they now talking about longer days & even shorter holidays 🥴

hesaidshesaid

Something that’s often overlooked is that teachers have had to completely pivot the way they do their jobs this year. While this true of many other workers, they are by and large dealing with adults - adults who have access to the internet, to company devices, sometimes even to company chairs in their own homes to ensure an ergonomic workspace. Adults who can make adult decisions as to whether they will engage with their work or not.

Teachers by comparison are dealing with children. Children have little agency over whether their family has internet, or who takes priority on its use, access to devices, etc etc. They are still learning self-regulation of emotions and concentration spans. The main reason Infants to 2nd class are back in school is because they need adult support to learn remotely. That support may not have been available at home for a whole host of reasons.

As in pretty much every other walk of life I’d imagine, there have been teachers who have doubled their hours trying to provide education in the most effective way to their classes. By the same token, there have no doubt been schools and teachers who have not risen to the challenge. This is also true of other workplaces; evidence of this may well be the number of employers who have insisted that employees come into work this time around.

So when the issue of whether teachers would be willing to work into the holidays comes up, it’s unsurprising that teachers bristle. I’m a primary teacher, between teaching on Zoom, setting and correcting tasks on Seesaw and making instruction videos, my working hours have definitely doubled. I can only imagine how much the working day has extended for secondary school teachers. For the second year running, they are effectively being asked to grade the Leaving Cert, a paid job for a reason, for free. From the kids’ point of view, and I think this holds for primary and secondary, they need to get outside, get away from schoolbooks and screens, and just live a little this summer in the company of their peers. That last part applies to adults too, but with wine.

We all need our holidays this year.

wirelessdude01

DSN wrote: »

Don't think taking time off holidays would go down well with kids/students either. But am curious about the longer terms they have in UK anyway compared to here. In-law's shocked non exam secondary finishes end May as they all carry on til round 19th July with one week off in June. So am surprised they now talking about longer days & even shorter holidays ��

Having taught in England I know which system I'd prefer my kids to be in.

Marty Bird

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

No appetite for forcing whole classes/schools back into school during part of the summer holidays. Keep an eye on England and look at how low the take up will be over there. It is purely optional.

We already have something very similar over here called July provision which h I wouldn't engage with as a teacher after being burnt by it once when I was a newish teacher. Persknally not worth the hassle for me.

Isn’t July provision only an option for children with additional need and it’s not a option for all children?

meath4sam

The response teachers working hard from home does not answer the question can the schools open in July and would the teachers be willing to assist.

Yes teachers did works hard in what I’m sure was a stressful environment, and I appreciate all there work.but so did the whole county.

Feed back I’m getting here is schools should not open in July but I still have not got a valid reason why, would insurance be an issue?

jimmytwotimes 2013

If the LC is going ahead at 2nd level in June, you can't also have students milling around from other years doing an extended year.

Guidelines from Dept says the plan is to use the extra space, freed up by cancelling the JC, to socially distance the LCs who are sitting papers.

Don't see how extended year works at 2nd level, even if you think it's a good idea.

None of the above obviously goes into extra money that would be needed for school staff, bus drivers, catering arrangements etc at relatively short notice.

khalessi

meath4sam wrote: »

The response teachers working hard from home does not answer the question can the schools open in July and would the teachers be willing to assist.

Yes teachers did works hard in what I’m sure was a stressful environment, and I appreciate all there work.but so did the whole county.

Feed back I’m getting here is schools should not open in July but I still have not got a valid reason why, would insurance be an issue?

Should doctors and nurses forgo their holidays this year to make up for the waiting lists in hospitals that were there pre Covid?

meath4sam

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Something that’s often overlooked is that teachers have had to completely pivot the way they do their jobs this year. While this true of many other workers, they are by and large dealing with adults - adults who have access to the internet, to company devices, sometimes even to company chairs in their own homes to ensure an ergonomic workspace. Adults who can make adult decisions as to whether they will engage with their work or not.



Teachers by comparison are dealing with children. Children have little agency over whether their family has internet, or who takes priority on its use, access to devices, etc etc. They are still learning self-regulation of emotions and concentration spans. The main reason Infants to 2nd class are back in school is because they need adult support to learn remotely. That support may not have been available at home for a whole host of reasons.

As in pretty much every other walk of life I’d imagine, there have been teachers who have doubled their hours trying to provide education in the most effective way to their classes. By the same token, there have no doubt been schools and teachers who have not risen to the challenge. This is also true of other workplaces; evidence of this may well be the number of employers who have insisted that employees come into work this time around.

So when the issue of whether teachers would be willing to work into the holidays comes up, it’s unsurprising that teachers bristle. I’m a primary teacher, between teaching on Zoom, setting and correcting tasks on Seesaw and making instruction videos, my working hours have definitely doubled. I can only imagine how much the working day has extended for secondary school teachers. For the second year running, they are effectively being asked to grade the Leaving Cert, a paid job for a reason, for free. From the kids’ point of view, and I think this holds for primary and secondary, they need to get outside, get away from schoolbooks and screens, and just live a little this summer in the company of their peers. That last part applies to adults too, but with wine.

We all need our holidays this year.

I agree with all points above, and parents have also doubled there hours working/teaching but it not really a valid reason to why schools could not stay open for a few weeks extra.

We all need holidays of course I agree. But if teachers got 4 weeks this I’m sure would be enough due to the situation we are in

Sammy2012

meath4sam wrote: »

The response teachers working hard from home does not answer the question can the schools open in July and would the teachers be willing to assist.

Yes teachers did works hard in what I’m sure was a stressful environment, and I appreciate all there work.but so did the whole county.

Feed back I’m getting here is schools should not open in July but I still have not got a valid reason why, would insurance be an issue?

Do you really think there would be an appetite to send children to school during the summer? I know my own kids have missed out on nothing academic during the closure. And I also know that they are happy to be back to school and be with their friends this week so socially they are fine also. There are plenty of children who have not suffered during lockdown.

Should schools open during the summer? Maybe there could be an opt in program for parents if they wished for it but I doubt you'd get many teachers volunteering to participate. The way they treat teachers who take part in the current July provision is appalling.

Why do you think schools should open in July? I have spent this week going over things with kids in my room and they have missed very little. Now I spent my days doing live zoom lessons during the closure to ensure this was the case so I don't understand why I would have to go in in July to make sure they caught up. They worked as did I during the closure so there is very little to make up for the most part.

jimmytwotimes 2013

meath4sam wrote: »

We all need holidays of course I agree. But if teachers got 4 weeks this I’m sure would be enough due to the situation we are in

Where is the money coming from to pay for 2 extra 2nd level months and 1 extra primary month?

Do all years remain in their current year so 3rd years, for example, continue to prepare for a cancelled exam?

As I mentioned above, the LC being held in a full school building doesn't allow for a quiet exam environment or social distancing for candidates.

meath4sam

khalessi wrote: »

Should doctors and nurses forgo their holidays this year to make up for the waiting lists in hospitals that were there pre Covid?

Cannot be compared due to the amount of holidays available to each profession. Not a dig a teacher holidays, but it’s fact teachers would still have 4 weeks off nurses doctors would not.

And I’m sure some nurses doctors have delayed holidays over the past 12 months.

meath4sam

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Where is the money coming from to pay for 2 extra 2nd level months and 1 extra primary month?

Do all years remain in their current year so 3rd years, for example, continue to prepare for a cancelled exam?

As I mentioned above, the LC being held in a full school building doesn't allow for a quiet exam environment or social distancing for candidates.

I am more concerned personally with primary as it involves my kids. But all valid points

BonsaiKitten

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Should schools open during the summer? Maybe there could be an opt in program for parents if they wished for it but I doubt you'd get many teachers volunteering to participate. The way they treat teachers who take part in the current July provision is appalling.

I think this is really one of the key points here - I won't touch July Provision, many teachers I know won't do it either. They routinely screw people out of pay. Sometimes it's hard for parents to find one teacher to do the JP tutoring - how many teachers would sign up for extra summer work? I think the number would be a lot lower than that poster expects. And just as staff can't be compelled into July Provision, they couldn't be compelled into additional days outside of their contract.

jimmytwotimes 2013

meath4sam wrote: »

I am more concerned personally with primary as it involves my kids. But all valid points

It's not going to happen so not much point in discussing it. Sorry

Icyseanfitz

meath4sam wrote: »

Cannot be compared due to the amount of holidays available to each profession. Not a dig a teacher holidays, but it’s fact teachers would still have 4 weeks off nurses doctors would not.

And I’m sure some nurses doctors have delayed holidays over the past 12 months.

if your so annoyed by the holidays teachers get, become one, the quality of life is great from it

Sammy2012

meath4sam wrote: »

Cannot be compared due to the amount of holidays available to each profession. Not a dig a teacher holidays, but it’s fact teachers would still have 4 weeks off nurses doctors would not.

And I’m sure some nurses doctors have delayed holidays over the past 12 months.

Asking again why do you think schools should be open in July? Holidays aside there are plenty of children who have not suffered at all during the remote learning. A lot depends on the effort of teacher and also the effort on the families themselves. For example if you had 30 families in your room and 28 make a great effort and 2 made no effort who do you think is at fault here?

penny piper

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Having taught in England I know which system I'd prefer my kids to be in.

One of my "grown up adult children" taught in England for a year...he said you spent most of time filling out paperwork...less time teaching....probably why they feel so behind there...

khalessi

meath4sam wrote: »

Cannot be compared due to the amount of holidays available to each profession. Not a dig a teacher holidays, but it’s fact teachers would still have 4 weeks off nurses doctors would not.



And I’m sure some nurses doctors have delayed holidays over the past 12 months.

As a nurse my friends have not had to give up their holidays. THey may have moved them but not shortened them as you are sugessting.

Also I thought you said this is about catch up so length of holidays not issue therefore andswer the questions will you be asking HCW to give up their holidays like you are suggesting teachers do, to catch up on the waiting lists?

oh btw you are definitely gaslighting

meath4sam

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

if your so annoyed by the holidays teachers get, become one, the quality of life is great from it

Where have I said I was annoyed with teachers holidays you are just jumping to that conclusion.

meath4sam

khalessi wrote: »

As a nurse my friends have not had to give up their holidays. THey may have moved them but not shortened them as you are sugessting.

Also I thought you said this is about catch up so length of holidays not issue therefore andswer the questions will you be asking HCW to give up their holidays like you are suggesting teachers do, to catch up on the waiting lists?


oh btw you are definitely gaslighting

I said delayed which u agree with, not shortened read my post back.

I don’t know what gaslighting means

Deeec

meath4sam wrote: »

I agree with all points above, and parents have also doubled there hours working/teaching but it not really a valid reason to why schools could not stay open for a few weeks extra.

We all need holidays of course I agree. But if teachers got 4 weeks this I’m sure would be enough due to the situation we are in

Meath4sam I too am a parent and I understand your concerns but we ( pupils, teachers, parents) have all worked hard so I think we all deserve the usual summer holidays.
Have you spoken to other parents in the class - they may be having similar issues with their child. Im concerned about my child who is in 4th class. She is dyslexic so everything is harder for her and takes longer to learn. Her teacher in January stopped doing video tutorials due to IT difficulties. The teacher does assign her daily work on Dojo but her class receives no actual teaching ( any teaching is done by parents). We ( all the kids parents )did complain to the school and were told the teacher found recording and live video to stressful. As a compromise she agreed to make up extra time after school ( maybe 2 hours per week) when the school reopens - so hopefully this will happen. Although Ive been doing my best to teach her the topics as best I can I am very worried that she will find it difficult to catch up with her peers. I completely get your concerns.

khalessi

meath4sam wrote: »

I said delayed which u agree with, not shortened read my post back.

I don’t know what gaslighting means

I dont agree with delaying my holidays at all and you actually suggested shortening them


Truth be told you feel guilty you didnt spend enough time with your child during homeschooling and are now trying to put that on the teacher. Everyone feels guilty and you child will catch up.

You still havent answered about getting rid of HCWs holdays or is it just teachers you have issue with?

meath4sam

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Do you really think there would be an appetite to send children to school during the summer? I know my own kids have missed out on nothing academic during the closure. And I also know that they are happy to be back to school and be with their friends this week so socially they are fine also. There are plenty of children who have not suffered during lockdown.

Should schools open during the summer? Maybe there could be an opt in program for parents if they wished for it but I doubt you'd get many teachers volunteering to participate. The way they treat teachers who take part in the current July provision is appalling.

Why do you think schools should open in July? I have spent this week going over things with kids in my room and they have missed very little. Now I spent my days doing live zoom lessons during the closure to ensure this was the case so I don't understand why I would have to go in in July to make sure they caught up. They worked as did I during the closure so there is very little to make up for the most part.

That’s great and fair play to you, and a valid point , but I’m sure not all families had the time to keep on track with other work commitments.

As I mentioned I have 2 kids 10 year old in 4th class and I have no concern.

6 year old in senior infants that is a concern, she has not completed a full year in school and was submurissed in Irish to add to the confusion. Heading to 1st class at possibly still sept senior infants level.
Home schooling at that age does not work, there attention span is only 5-10 minutes.

Sammy2012

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

I think this is really one of the key points here - I won't touch July Provision, many teachers I know won't do it either. They routinely screw people out of pay. Sometimes it's hard for parents to find one teacher to do the JP tutoring - how many teachers would sign up for extra summer work? I think the number would be a lot lower than that poster expects. And just as staff can't be compelled into July Provision, they couldn't be compelled into additional days outside of their contract.

I have never done it but was almost guilted into it last summer. But when you don't get paid for 4 months and I would have to pay for childcare for my own kids and by me working they would miss out on things during the summer its not something I would consider to be honest.

penny piper

meath4sam wrote: »

I don’t know what gaslighting means

maybe slightly manipulative?

wirelessdude01

meath4sam wrote: »

I agree with all points above, and parents have also doubled there hours working/teaching but it not really a valid reason to why schools could not stay open for a few weeks extra.

We all need holidays of course I agree. But if teachers got 4 weeks this I’m sure would be enough due to the situation we are in

So it's the holidays that you really have the issue with? Truth always emerges no matter how hard posters try to camouflage their thoughts or dress them up.