Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

hesaidshesaid

Deeec wrote: »

As a compromise she agreed to make up extra time after school ( maybe 2 hours per week) when the school reopens - so hopefully this will happen.

That’s quite a decision. I would be interested to know if the teacher offered this or was instructed/pressured to do it by the principal.

Deeec

khalessi wrote: »

I dont agree with delaying my holidays at all and you actually suggested shortening them


Truth be told you feel guilty you didnt spend enough time with your child during homeschooling and are now trying to put that on the teacher. Everyone feels guilty and you child will catch up.

You still havent answered about getting rid of HCWs holdays or is it just teachers you have issue with?

Thats a horrible comment to make Khalessi. I think you should apologise.
You are a great poster on this thread but that comment is out of order.

khalessi

meath4sam wrote: »

I agree with all points above, and parents have also doubled there hours working/teaching but it not really a valid reason to why schools could not stay open for a few weeks extra.

We all need holidays of course I agree. But if teachers got 4 weeks this I’m sure would be enough due to the situation we are in

FYI 4 weeks is shortening not delaying

Deeec

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

That’s quite a decision. I would be interested to know if the teacher offered this or was instructed/pressured to do it by the principal.

I dont know being honest. She is an older teacher so found the whole remote learning thing hard - she is not IT literate. In fairness when she is in school she is a very good teacher. I expect she knew she wasnt giving the kids the best re remote learning and came up with the offer herself.

thomasdylan

khalessi wrote: »

I dont agree with delaying my holidays at all and you actually suggested shortening them


Truth be told you feel guilty you didnt spend enough time with your child during homeschooling and are now trying to put that on the teacher. Everyone feels guilty and you child will catch up.

You still havent answered about getting rid of HCWs holdays or is it just teachers you have issue with?

I don't think that's a fair comment. You have someone who is concerned about their child, there's no need for that. Their child will be fine, and that's because their parents are doing their best.

The opposite keeps being said here but I think there are some children who won't catch up, particularly if their parents aren't proactive.

Sammy2012

meath4sam wrote: »

That’s great and fair play to you, and a valid point , but I’m sure not all families had the time to keep on track with other work commitments.

As I mentioned I have 2 kids 10 year old in 4th class and I have no concern.

6 year old in senior infants that is a concern, she has not completed a full year in school and was submurissed in Irish to add to the confusion. Heading to 1st class at possibly still sept senior infants level.
Home schooling at that age does not work, there attention span is only 5-10 minutes.

I totally understand that not all families had time to keep on top of it. My own circumstances would be my husband has been going out to work and I was at home to manage everything else and work from home. And a lot of my families would be similar but they made it work by doing the work in the evenings.

And as a parent of a junior infant I know what it's like. But we made it work.

khalessi

Deeec wrote: »

Thats a horrible comment to make Khalessi. I think you should apologise.
You are a great poster on this thread but that comment is out of order.

No I wont apologise, my own children missed out because I am teaching online, I come across this every day, parents feel guilty and put it on the teacher. It is a fact of the job, and parents should not feel ashamed for feeling they didnt spend enough time with their children homeschooling. It is hard trying to WFH but this is a pandemic so kindness goes both ways. My children lost out as I am teaching I will make that back up but also the school does to as has been explained multiple times today

meath4sam

Deeec wrote: »

Thats a horrible comment to make Khalessi. I think you should apologise.
You are a great poster on this thread but that comment is out of order.

I don’t expect an apology he she is entitled to opinion. Did I spend enough time with my 6 year old during home schooling no didn’t. I have a full time job as does my wife, did I do the best I could as instructed by teacher yes I did.

wirelessdude01

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Asking again why do you think schools should be open in July? Holidays aside there are plenty of children who have not suffered at all during the remote learning. A lot depends on the effort of teacher and also the effort on the families themselves. For example if you had 30 families in your room and 28 make a great effort and 2 made no effort who do you think is at fault here?

I have one kid who hasn't logged onto any zoom calls, even registered with Google classroom and their parents haven't responded to a single email myself and the principal have sent. Broadband isn't an issue as they are constantly gaming with others in the class.

I'll be damned if I'm going back over things just because they didn't even bother pretending to engage. They are the only one in my class who didn't.

Dressoutlet

My kids did enough work in Jan and Feb and they improved greatly! Just because other kids didn't that's not the fault of me and mine. My kids will enjoy their full summer holidays while other kids didn't do anything in Jan and Feb. Mine will not be doing school in July and before you come at me about work etc that is your own problem not mine. I know plenty of parents who didn't do a stitch of work in the 2 months and don't work so again IDC. I've spent a whole year worried about other people and keeping other people safe and happy while high risk myself, risking my life bringing kids to school but nobody cares about that either. That's life. Pay for tutors if your kid is behind.

Sammy2012

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I have one kid who hasn't logged onto any zoom calls, even registered with Google classroom and their parents haven't responded to a single email myself and the principal have sent. Broadband isn't an issue as they are constantly gaming with others in the class.

I'll be damned if I'm going back over things just because they didn't even bother pretending to engage. They are the only one in my class who didn't.

I'm back now but have seen first hand the effort made by one or two. But as far as I'm concerned its covered and bar one or two things that did genuinely cause problems for the kids I won't be going back over it either. I hated online learning. Hated it and the hours that it took to prep for the week. I am so glad to be back in the classroom and honestly so are the kids. But they should be proud of themselves for the effort they made as I know they hated it too.

BonsaiKitten

Sammy2012 wrote: »

I have never done it but was almost guilted into it last summer. But when you don't get paid for 4 months and I would have to pay for childcare for my own kids and by me working they would miss out on things during the summer its not something I would consider to be honest.

Yeah I just don't do it because the pay isn't worth it (what they do pay you that is, they'll look for any excuse not to cough up!). You can make better money out of grinds. Plus there's too much of a delay between the work being completed and being actually paid for my tastes.

Tbh I think the mess that is July Provision is a clear sign that summer catch ups won't be a thing, the DES aren't fans of paying teachers for additional work

meath4sam

Guys final post from me on this tread I’m sure you will all be delighted to hear. Few points below.

I have no issue with teacher holidays, I do understand some people do and teachers are sick of hearing it. But one option and prob the most sensible option to make up time would involve teachers holidays.

I am concerned for kids that missed out ( one of my own )

I am looking for a possible solution to help the kids who missed out, posted here looking for possible solutions and for some reason people think I am here to give out to teachers. I respect teachers it’s a job I could never do. 2 kids is enough for me.

Interesting to hear a teacher has offered to help a parent with extra hours ( fair play to that teacher)

Majority of teacher have gone above and beyond during covid. I agree.

Majority of parents have done the best they can during this but all kids are different and home schooling did not suit some kids. ( not only kids with special needs) possible didn’t suit some parents.

I will be interested to hear teachers opinions when all the kids get back to school to see the different levels kids are at and the knock on effect it will have on other students if not all around the same level.

Deeec

Dressoutlet wrote: »

My kids did enough work in Jan and Feb and they improved greatly! Just because other kids didn't that's not the fault of me and mine. My kids will enjoy their full summer holidays while other kids didn't do anything in Jan and Feb. Mine will not be doing school in July and before you come at me about work etc that is your own problem not mine. I know plenty of parents who didn't do a stitch of work in the 2 months and don't work so again IDC. I've spent a whole year worried about other people and keeping other people safe and happy while high risk myself, risking my life bringing kids to school but nobody cares about that either. That's life. Pay for tutors if your kid is behind.

I agree with what you have said here but its not always so clearcut for every child. I have 2 children in primary school - my younger daughter done great with remote learning and is right up to speed on everything. The older girl is not doing great. She is doing her best and Im doing my best to help her( but Im not a teacher). She does much better in the school environment. Its not fair to say that kids are behind because they didnt do the work or got no help. Some kids will thrive with remote learning and some just wont.

BonsaiKitten

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I have one kid who hasn't logged onto any zoom calls, even registered with Google classroom and their parents haven't responded to a single email myself and the principal have sent. Broadband isn't an issue as they are constantly gaming with others in the class.

I'll be damned if I'm going back over things just because they didn't even bother pretending to engage. They are the only one in my class who didn't.

Same, I have one or two who are routinely late to Zoom classes and then give out when I won't go back over everything from scratch for them. No, not happening over Zoom and won't be happening in-person either. Turn up on time and you won't have those issues.

Str8outtaWuhan

I'll be F**ked if my lot spend a single second longer in school than the last week of June, in fact if they release the shackles on us ill be taking them out early for a "dental appointment" at George Best international.

Sammy2012

meath4sam wrote: »

Guys final post from me on this tread I’m sure you will all be delighted to hear. Few points below.

I have no issue with teacher holidays, I do understand some people do and teachers are sick of hearing it. But one option and prob the most sensible option to make up time would involve teachers holidays.

I am concerned for kids that missed out ( one of my own )

I am looking for a possible solution to help the kids who missed out, posted here looking for possible solutions and for some reason people think I am here to give out to teachers. I respect teachers it’s a job I could never do. 2 kids is enough for me.

Interesting to hear a teacher has offered to help a parent with extra hours ( fair play to that teacher)

Majority of teacher have gone above and beyond during covid. I agree.

Majority of parents have done the best they can during this but all kids are different and home schooling did not suit some kids. ( not only kids with special needs) possible didn’t suit some parents.

I will be interested to hear teachers opinions when all the kids get back to school to see the different levels kids are at and the knock on effect it will have on other students if not all around the same level.

But my point meath4sam is that you are never going to have all children in a class at the same level. Never. I'm teaching 13 years and I've never had a class all that the same level. It's just not possible. Covid has nothing to do with this. Kids learn at different rates and progress at different times. There are always some kids who are slower to pick up concepts than others. And this is especially true at the younger end.

We have a spiral curriculum and that means the main topics come up again and again and are built on each year. So kids who didn't get it the first time will have the opportunity the next year.

I totally understand that your worried about your senior infant but the teacher will have to adjust their teaching to suit the needs of the kids in the class. Any teacher worth their salt will do this. Phonics are something that will be covered again and again in the classroom so your child will get a chance to hear them repeated even in 1st class. Try not to worry. They all get there. Some just take a little longer.

Dressoutlet

Deeec wrote: »

I agree with what you have said here but its not always so clearcut for every child. I have 2 children in primary school - my younger daughter done great with remote learning and is right up to speed on everything. The older girl is not doing great. She is doing her best and Im doing my best to help her( but Im not a teacher). She does much better in the school environment. Its not fair to say that kids are behind because they didnt do the work or got no help. Some kids will thrive with remote learning and some just wont.

I do take your point, and I assume the child is not back to school yet, so perhaps a few weeks in class and they will be up to speed and you yourself may not think school would be necessary in the summer. Failing that perhapssome kind of grinds/tutor would benefit?

khalessi

Deeec wrote: »

Its not fair to say that kids are behind because they didnt do the work or got no help. Some kids will thrive with remote learning and some just wont.

Teachers know this. I can tell the difference between a child who is struggling and a child who can't be arsed, I have both online. But during this lockdown I have given grinds over the phone, I have rang kids to help with their mental wellbeing, I have dropped stuff off to their house and every parent has my phone number.

We get through this the best we can but it is extremely unhelpful to be the only profession where people go, oh sure they can give up their holidays. No other profession has been asked to do that. It was suggested a couple of weeks ago on here teachers work 7 day week and kids come in for half weeks. Ludicrious. I have a life and work damn hard for my holidays and will not approve anyone taking them off me as I need them to spend time with my family and for my health.

My friends in other professions who know how hard I work cannot believe the crap teachers get

meath4sam

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-longer-school-days-shorter-summer-holidays-and-five-term-years-all-under-consideration-says-education-secretary-12238622

Sorry this is now my last post.

Interesting it’s been considered in the UK. I just think the department of education should at least consider all options.

Due to the fact the uk government is considering options they agree they could be an issue.

Is the right option I don’t know.

Random sample

We’ve spent long enough in this country copying Britain’s educational mistakes. They are not a direction I would look in for ideas.

I wouldn’t support the idea of my kids spending extra time in school during their holidays. They need fresh air and freedom in the summer.

jimmytwotimes 2013

meath4sam wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-longer-school-days-shorter-summer-holidays-and-five-term-years-all-under-consideration-says-education-secretary-12238622

Sorry this is now my last post.

Interesting it’s been considered in the UK. I just think the department of education should at least consider all options.

Due to the fact the uk government is considering options they agree they could be an issue.

Is the right option I don’t know.

The UK are miles ahead with their vaccinations, not much point comparing.

Even at that, Ofsted want to see evidence it would be worth the effort.

Ray Donovan

penny piper wrote: »

One of my "grown up adult children" taught in England for a year...he said you spent most of time filling out paperwork...less time teaching....probably why they feel so behind there...

Don’t worry we’re heading down the same road.

meath4sam

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

The UK are miles ahead with their vaccinations, not much point comparing.

Even at that, Ofsted wamt to see evidence it would be worth the effort.

Valid point on the vaccine

I can’t give u evidence, but how can you argue that bringing kids in for a few weeks that are behind would not be beneficial to there education. Same way when kids are struggling the get SMAs which I’m sure is proven to work.

jimmytwotimes 2013

meath4sam wrote: »

Valid point on the vaccine

I can’t give u evidence, but how can you argue that bringing kids in for a few weeks that are behind would not be beneficial to there education. Same way when kids are struggling the get SMAs which I’m sure is proven to work.

Government wud have to justify paying out extra wages for a provision many might not want.

They could maybe invite applications from students who feel they want extra class time in the summer.

My guess is most won't want it and staff wud have to volunteer for the extra work, for some payment obv.

Str8outtaWuhan

Random sample wrote: »

We’ve spent long enough in this country copying Britain’s educational mistakes. They are not a direction I would look in for ideas.

I wouldn’t support the idea of my kids spending extra time in school during their holidays. They need fresh air and freedom in the summer.

unfortunately our kids will spend most of their lives paying back the billions we have borrowed during this pandemic.

I would not begrudge them their summer holidays now knowing they'll end up with a few weeks a year when they start working down the mines

Icyseanfitz

meath4sam wrote: »

Where have I said I was annoyed with teachers holidays you are just jumping to that conclusion.

well then fact that you think educators should have to work through their holidays would indicate otherwise

meath4sam

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

well then fact that you think educators should have to work through their holidays would indicate otherwise

You are suggesting I want them to work over holidays as they have to much holidays... no I’m suggesting it should be considered to help the kids.

I think if it is considered it would be for up to 4 weeks work leaving at least 4 weeks holidays.
I think if they do agree they should be rewarded financially.

This is not an argument Im looking to have but I’m sure if the teachers benefit financially for working an extra 4 weeks. 4 weeks holiday would be enough considering most workers survive on 2 weeks during the summer.

I honestly don’t care about how much holidays teachers get but for this year only I do consider it as an opportunity to help the kids catch up.

That’s my point and I will leave it there. I’m sure many parents share my view and many don’t. It’s just My opinion

Str8outtaWuhan

meath4sam wrote: »

You are suggesting I want them to work over holidays as they have to much holidays... no I’m suggesting it should be considered to help the kids.

I think if it is considered it would be for up to 4 weeks work leaving at least 4 weeks holidays.
I think if they do agree they should be rewarded financially.

This is not an argument Im looking to have but I’m sure if the teachers benefit financially for working an extra 4 weeks. 4 weeks holiday would be enough considering most workers survive on 2 weeks during the summer.

I honestly don’t care about how much holidays teachers get but for this year only I do consider it as an opportunity to help the kids catch up.

That’s my point and I will leave it there. I’m sure many parents share my view and many don’t. It’s just My opinion

When ur on ur death bed will you care more about the couple of sheckels extra you earned or the month you lost to work when you could have spent it at home with ur family. There are some things money can't buy, time is one of them.

meath4sam

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

When ur on ur death bed will you care more about the couple of sheckels extra you earned or the month you lost to work when you could have spent it at home with ur family. There are some things money can't buy, time is one of them.

Not all teachers would feel this way I’m sure some would be happy to help the kids out.

I get the message most teachers would be against the idea. Would the teachers against the idea be happy if other teachers who may want extra cash or to help out, did return to school during June?

Do teachers not do similar activities during summer like camps grinds etc for extra cash. Would this not be the same.