Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Str8outtaWuhan

Teacher2020 wrote: »

Why can't parents look after the daily 45 mins of physical activity and hour of wellbeing? The school day has 5 hours of tuition time- how could we justify spending nearly 40% of the time on PE and wellbeing? I think a lot of people forget that parents are the primary educators of the child- not every part is the responsibility of the school.

Social engineering. When the state starts teaching about their form of ethics, morality etc..

average_runner

Teacher2020 wrote: »

Why can't parents look after the daily 45 mins of physical activity and hour of wellbeing? The school day has 5 hours of tuition time- how could we justify spending nearly 40% of the time on PE and wellbeing? I think a lot of people forget that parents are the primary educators of the child- not every part is the responsibility of the school.

Because not all parents would do it. It also a very good team building tool with their class mates.

Physical exercise at a young age is about having fun with their friends but learning skills without knowing it

average_runner

Teacher2020 wrote: »

You actually said we should move to European hours - implying we would have less contact time than we do now. So something else would have to be sacrificed.

French average 28 teaching hours a week. Ireland is 26 or 27?
9 - 230 with lunch and breaks there?

History Queen

average_runner wrote: »

French average 28 teaching hours a week. Ireland is 26 or 27?
9 - 230 with lunch and breaks there?

France have longer holidays than us

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

French average 28 teaching hours a week. Ireland is 26 or 27?
9 - 230 with lunch and breaks there?

Primary school week in France is approx 24hrs including their breaks one of which is 1.5hrs long each day if I remember the details from a show I once watched.

Deeec

Hurrache wrote: »

You and all those thanking you are ignoring the point that it's no Maude Flaunders moment as they'll be sitting with each other for 5 or 6 hour 5 times a week anyway.



As above, they'll be sitting with each other all day anyway, so if one of them is carrying it, meeting in a classmates house is going to make no difference.



There isn't really.



Me.

We're not talking about teenagers out partying with each other with groups outside their immediate classmates. We're talking about primary school kids who at that age by and large tend to socialise with classmates. 1, 2 or 3 of them meeting outside of the school is no more a risk than them sitting in a classroom with 25 or so classmates.

I'm not here justifying as to why parents do these things, I'm just saying they bring little additional risk now that the schools are back.

You are assuming playdates only happen with friends in the childs class. Kids can have playdates with neighbours, cousins, friends from sports clubs, kids from other classes etc.
Hygiene practices in a home setting will not be the same as in a school environment.

Hurrache

Deeec wrote: »

You are assuming playdates only happen with friends in the childs class.

I qualified my statements a couple of times.

And I can be certain that hygiene standards are as good as, if not better, in homes than in many schools.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Primary school week in France is approx 24hrs including their breaks one of which is 1.5hrs long each day if I remember the details from a show I once watched.

The school year in France is separated by five periods of schooling and four holiday periods, comprising at least 36 weeks of study.

It's a minimum of 4 hours teaching but average is higher than 26. That is without their 90 min lunch break

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

The school year in France is separated by five periods of schooling and four holiday periods, comprising at least 36 weeks of study.

It's a minimum of 4 hours teaching but average is higher than 26. That is without their 90 min lunch break

Take Ireland 183 days in the standard primary school year, divide by 5 is a.litroe over 36.5 weeks.

am_zarathustra

Before this dissolves into how little or much teachers work the OECD do the numbers of contact hours every year. It's very easy to access this information.

https://data.oecd.org/teachers/teaching-hours.htm

Ireland has above average contact time at both primary and secondary, very much above average at secondary.

Schools are expected to be social services, moral instruction, PE and all sorts in ireland, the lack of very vital services, like respite etc, during the lockdown has highlighted this. I'd be inclined to trust that teachers will know if the class in front of them needs more time team building or are struggling with phonics and will adjust accordingly.

Bang for your buck our education system is also one of the cheapest in the world.

History Queen

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Before this dissolves into how little or much teachers work the OECD do the numbers of contact hours every year. It's very easy to access this information.

https://data.oecd.org/teachers/teaching-hours.htm

Ireland has above average contact time at both primary and secondary, very much above average at secondary.

Schools are expected to be social services, moral instruction, PE and all sorts in ireland, the lack of very vital services, like respite etc, during the lockdown has highlighted this. I'd be inclined to trust that teachers will know if the class in front of them needs more time team building or are struggling with phonics and will adjust accordingly.

Bang for your buck our education system is also one of the cheapest in the world.

Good shout recommending this. I was just on the website. Chart from OECD comparing France and Ireland in terms of contact hours. Ireland comes out just above France but there's very little in it.

https://data.oecd.org/chart/6iPc

am_zarathustra

Fairly consistent in fairness, we tend towards the top for hours consistently. The %GDP, especially at tertiary is shocking, hoping the new ministry improves it. Few departments in ireland could say they spend less than the OECD average and consistently come out near the top, especially in metrics like inclusion and retention (good signs of equality). And I think we can all agree it's not because the department are geniuses.

In general, Irish teachers are very dedicated and well trained. I really hope that the general level of discussion you see around now doesn't discourage people from going into the profession.

byhookorbycrook

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Fairly consistent in fairness, we tend towards the top for hours consistently. The %GDP, especially at tertiary is shocking, hoping the new ministry improves it. Few departments in ireland could say they spend less than the OECD average and consistently come out near the top, especially in metrics like inclusion and retention (good signs of equality). And I think we can all agree it's not because the department are geniuses.

In general, Irish teachers are very dedicated and well trained. I really hope that the general level of discussion you see around now doesn't discourage people from going into the profession.

I have discouraged any family members from going into teaching for the last few years .

am_zarathustra

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I have discouraged any family members from going into teaching for the last few years .

I have to say, despite the difficulties, I absolutely love my job. The level of job satisfactions is excellent, I have freedom to expand in lots of areas and I really enjoy the kids, they are brilliant fun.

The pay is not amazing but the job is stable and guaranteed, I worked in other industries before going back and I have to say, on balance, my life is better.

Christy42

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Fairly consistent in fairness, we tend towards the top for hours consistently. The %GDP, especially at tertiary is shocking, hoping the new ministry improves it. Few departments in ireland could say they spend less than the OECD average and consistently come out near the top, especially in metrics like inclusion and retention (good signs of equality). And I think we can all agree it's not because the department are geniuses.

In general, Irish teachers are very dedicated and well trained. I really hope that the general level of discussion you see around now doesn't discourage people from going into the profession.

I would nearly discourage people because of stuff like your post. You can be dedicated and well trained but you are not exactly going to make much money, you still have to deal with students who don't want to be there and just want to challenge the teacher and the entire thanks you get is people giving out about your holidays.

I remember leaving school watching what students did or at least tried to put teachers through (and my year was probably pretty decently behaved relatively speaking) and decided I was never going into that position.

am_zarathustra

Christy42 wrote: »

I would nearly discourage people because of stuff like your post. You can be dedicated and well trained but you are not exactly going to make much money, you still have to deal with students who don't want to be there and just want to challenge the teacher and the entire thanks you get is people giving out about your holidays.

I remember leaving school watching what students did or at least tried to put teachers through (and my year was probably pretty decently behaved relatively speaking) and decided I was never going into that position.

I mean, I'm certainly not teaching in what would be consider a "nice school", it's DEIS and in a complicated environment, yep some kids are very difficult, usually once you know the story though their behaviour makes sense, you can talk then around generally. There is obviously a few exceptions but really I've had a handful of them over the years. I'd say honestly you need a thick skin and you need to be able to turn your empathy up and down as needed, it's easy to care too much or stop caring but the balance can be hard to strike.

Honestly, I've found management and the department to be consistent the worst part of my job, the kids are just that, young people acting out, harmless generally. I think it also varies massively school to school, I've been in environments where I would hate to be long term, I work in a supportive place with people I genuinely like, that's a lot. But I also turned down permanent jobs to get there. As in most jobs you get what you put in, I've a post so that's extraomey, I correct in the summer etc, still a manageable amount of work and my pay is pretty ok, I can have a nice enough house in a suburb, a decent pension, holidays etc.

I do think the general public really have no idea what goes into teaching or the effort it takes to corecet even 25 exams or assignments to a high standard. People from middle-class backgrounds also don't undery the level of time and extra care some other students in their child's class are receiving. That can be very frustrating but I guess it's best to try and ignore it, it wouldn't stop me entering the profession

Locotastic

Christy42 wrote: »

I would nearly discourage people because of stuff like your post. You can be dedicated and well trained but you are not exactly going to make much money, you still have to deal with students who don't want to be there and just want to challenge the teacher and the entire thanks you get is people giving out about your holidays.

I remember leaving school watching what students did or at least tried to put teachers through (and my year was probably pretty decently behaved relatively speaking) and decided I was never going into that position.

Handy though you can always get a nice side gig, something to fill the afternoons and get some extra cash.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/money-diaries-22-5350684-Mar2021/

am_zarathustra

Locotastic wrote: »

Handy though you can always get a nice side gig, something to fill the afternoons and get some extra cash.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/money-diaries-22-5350684-Mar2021/

In fairness, this sounds made up and, if it isn't, this guy is an idiot. I was correcting til 7 and answering questions for kids. I started work at 8am. This article is certainly not the norm, he must be teaching a very young group maybe

wirelessdude01

Locotastic wrote: »

Handy though you can always get a nice side gig, something to fill the afternoons and get some extra cash.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/money-diaries-22-5350684-Mar2021/

Nothing to stop anyone in any profession doing the same. I see pretty much all the plumbers and electricians around here doing nixers every evening and Saturdays. All cash as well.

deiseindublin

average_runner wrote: »

Please show where I inferred that?



Another teacher posted the hours for primary school. What i would like to see:


45 mins a day of structure development on kids physical education side.
1 hour a day ideally on kids well being, especially one hour a day with the girls from 4th class up

I've heard it all now. You want a different syllabus for girls...........................

Wow, thought everybody got past that.

deiseindublin

Locotastic wrote: »

Handy though you can always get a nice side gig, something to fill the afternoons and get some extra cash.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/money-diaries-22-5350684-Mar2021/

Why don't you retrain Locotastic. You're in another industry already presumably. It'd be such an easy gig, a shame not to.

Locotastic

am_zarathustra wrote: »

In fairness, this sounds made up and, if it isn't, this guy is an idiot. I was correcting til 7 and answering questions for kids. I started work at 8am. This article is certainly not the norm, he must be teaching a very young group maybe

Agree, it does sound made up - it's embarrassing.

Locotastic

deiseindublin wrote: »

Why don't you retrain Locotastic. You're in another industry already presumably. It'd be such an easy gig, a shame not to.

I'm happy with my career, just pointing out one of the highlights of being a teacher. Doesn't sound too bad at all, so there's no need to discourage people from joining the profession as others have suggested.

History Queen

Locotastic wrote: »

I'm happy with my career, just pointing out one of the highlights of being a teacher. Doesn't sound too bad at all, so there's no need to discourage people from joining the profession as others have suggested.

I do discourage members of my family to be teachers. But I do point out that my discouragement is based on the things that bother me, if those things wouldn't bother them then fire away.

The main issues that bother me, in no particular order, are; the attitude of society towards teachers has worsened dramatically in recent years, the casualisation of the profession, the worsening societal problems that schools are expected to remedy, the abhorrent treatment of vulnerable children (both socio-economically deprived and those with additional needs)... I could go on...

wirelessdude01

Locotastic wrote: »

I'm happy with my career, just pointing out one of the highlights of being a teacher. Doesn't sound too bad at all, so there's no need to discourage people from joining the profession as others have suggested.

Also pointed out nixers are there for everyone to do if they so choose.

shtpEdthePlum

Teacher2020 wrote: »

Yet you want us to spend more time teaching even though we are apparently terrible at it? Why?

Pmsl

Dickie10

i love teaching because of the school im in , if i wasnt in that school then I would not be as enthused. some schools you hear of the goings on I wouldnt go near, an odd bit of subbing would suit me before i would go near some places.

wirelessdude01

Dickie10 wrote: »

i love teaching because of the school im in , if i wasnt in that school then I would not be as enthused. some schools you hear of the goings on I wouldnt go near, an odd bit of subbing would suit me before i would go near some places.

I was the same. Had a list of schools I had subbed in where I wouldn't take a permanent job if they were the only school offering one.

am_zarathustra

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I was the same. Had a list of schools I had subbed in where I wouldn't take a permanent job if they were the only school offering one.

That's the one piece of advice I would give a new member of staff, move if you don't like it at the start of your career, shop around and see what's suits and get experience and then pick a school or type of schools that works for you. So many people are unhappy due to toxic workplaces, not the work itself, takes the joy out of the job

wirelessdude01

am_zarathustra wrote: »

That's the one piece of advice I would give a new member of staff, move if you don't like it at the start of your career, shop around and see what's suits and get experience and then pick a school or type of schools that works for you. So many people are unhappy due to toxic workplaces, not the work itself, takes the joy out of the job

Try a few on for size try on your traditional Catholic school, an educate together, a community national school. Try rural, urban, big small. I knew what I wanted and what I didn't want.

Having said that you can be happy in a school, in an area, in the staffroom and all that can quickly change due to a new staff member or change of principal where the atmosphere can change very quickly.