Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

combat14

Prof Philip Nolan has said that cases are now arising in younger cohorts.

He noted that the incidence rate is increasing in those aged 19-24, 13-18, five-12, and 25-39.

He added that the situation Ireland is in now is similar to the situation immediately after Halloween, where case numbers increased for about a week to ten days

Icyseanfitz

combat14 wrote: »

Prof Philip Nolan has said that cases are now arising in younger cohorts.

He noted that the incidence rate is increasing in those aged 19-24, 13-18, five-12, and 25-39.

He added that the situation Ireland is in now is similar to the situation immediately after Halloween, where case numbers increased for about a week to ten days

I wonder what changed in the last two weeks for young people ...... ffs

lulublue22

combat14 wrote: »

Prof Philip Nolan has said that cases are now arising in younger cohorts.

He noted that the incidence rate is increasing in those aged 19-24, 13-18, five-12, and 25-39.

He added that the situation Ireland is in now is similar to the situation immediately after Halloween, where case numbers increased for about a week to ten days

He also reported that the schools covid shield remains intact as outbreaks in schools are negligible. #safestschoolsintheworld

Icyseanfitz

lulublue22 wrote: »

He also reported that the schools covid shield remains intact as outbreaks in schools are negligible. #safestschoolsintheworld

Kids are getting it more now, just not in schools, which is the only thing that has changed for them since Christmas, must be the pubs they are visiting :rolleyes:

hesaidshesaid

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Kids are getting it more now, just not in schools, which is the only thing that has changed for them since Christmas, must be the pubs they are visiting :rolleyes:

We can’t get away from the fact that a lot of people see schools re-opening as a return to normality, no matter how many times or ways Ronan Glynn tries to communicate the contrary. Directly after the announcement about the phased return we had kids on zoom classes talking about their play dates, meet-ups in parks etc. On one zoom assembly three girls joined from one phone as they were in a local park together.

Restriction fatigue is very real for everyone at this stage. By Easter weekend we should see the impact of the full return of primary, special schools and special classes as well as 5th and 6th years on case numbers. Let’s just hope it’s manageable enough to go ahead with the rest of school re-opening.

combat14

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

We can’t get away from the fact that a lot of people see schools re-opening as a return to normality, no matter how many times or ways Ronan Glynn tries to communicate the contrary. Directly after the announcement about the phased return we had kids on zoom classes talking about their play dates, meet-ups in parks etc. On one zoom assembly three girls joined from one phone as they were in a local park together.

Restriction fatigue is very real for everyone at this stage. By Easter weekend we should see the impact of the full return of primary, special schools and special classes as well as 5th and 6th years on case numbers. Let’s just hope it’s manageable enough to go ahead with the rest of school re-opening.

sure is it not back to normal now?

another few hundred thousand kids went back this week with all the associated people and traffic etc

with vaccine delays and more "phased" school returns summer 2021 looks slimmer by the minute

jrosen

Do people even care anymore? I have spoken to some friends who were some of the most rule following people regarding covid restrictions. Even they are letting their kids out to play, one has gone back to the office 2 days a week out of her 5 out of choice. She can work from home. She said initially it was the boss there, now there are 7 people all working that day out of choice. They social distance and only use their own desks/keyboards etc but they chat albeit from behind their desks. There has been an increase in cars visiting in my estate.

We were all knuckling down waiting for the elderly to be vaccinated and it seems life is getting further and further away.

lulublue22

[quote="hesaidshesaid;116592378"

Restriction fatigue is very real for everyone at this stage. By Easter weekend we should see the impact of the full return of primary, special schools and special classes as well as 5th and 6th years on case numbers. Let’s just hope it’s manageable enough to go ahead with the rest of school re-opening.[/quote]

If things do go south ( fingers crossed they don’t) I hope a more nuanced response to school closures will be implemented.

combat14

lulublue22 wrote: »

If things do go south ( fingers crossed they don’t) I hope a more nuanced response to school closures will be implemented.

Professor Nolan added that it was important that people in younger age cohorts avoid congregating over the coming days and weeks as they can bring the virus home and infect members of their family. 

as they let hundreds of thousands back in to congregate in schools - you couldnt make it up

Sammy2012

combat14 wrote: »

Professor Nolan added that it was important that people in younger age cohorts avoid congregating over the coming days and weeks as they can bring the virus home and infect members of their family. 

as they let hundreds of thousands back in to congregate in schools - you couldnt make it up

Ah but schools are safe!!

P2C

Doing a bit of work in the field and we are seeing a lot of 18th birthdays and other gatherings, shindigs and get together particularly among the17-19 age cohort. I have no doubt the seeds are being planted for the next wave. So far weare seeing limited transmissions in the classroom during class or student to teacher in secondary. We are seeing a bit in primary. Secondary We transmission is normally at break times when students are mixing without masks indoors and outdoors. A lot more traffic this week so suspect by Easter cases will be on the rise. I say 8/10 of our cases in school so far were transmitted in the community or heavily linked back to party’s, sharing lifts or house gatherings.

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

We can’t get away from the fact that a lot of people see schools re-opening as a return to normality, no matter how many times or ways Ronan Glynn tries to communicate the contrary. Directly after the announcement about the phased return we had kids on zoom classes talking about their play dates, meet-ups in parks etc. On one zoom assembly three girls joined from one phone as they were in a local park together.

Restriction fatigue is very real for everyone at this stage. By Easter weekend we should see the impact of the full return of primary, special schools and special classes as well as 5th and 6th years on case numbers. Let’s just hope it’s manageable enough to go ahead with the rest of school re-opening.

lulublue22

P2C wrote: »

Doing a bit of work in the field and we are seeing a lot of 18th birthdays and other gatherings, shindigs and get together particularly among the17-19 age cohort. I have no doubt the seeds are being planted for the next wave. So far weare seeing limited transmissions in the classroom during class or student to teacher in secondary. We are seeing a bit in primary. Secondary We transmission is normally at break times when students are mixing without masks indoors and outdoors. A lot more traffic this week so suspect by Easter cases will be on the rise. I say 8/10 of our cases in school so far were transmitted in the community or heavily linked back to party’s, sharing lifts or house gatherings.

How many schools do you deal with ? Are you speaking from a local or national perspective.

For primary school - are you part of a dedicated school team ? How many are on the school team ?

If so
what criteria are the team using to determine a close contact in a school setting ?

Do you visit the school / class or do you get photo’s of the layout of the class before making determinations of who is or is not a close contact ?

What class grouping in primary has the most cases ?

In how many cases have you asked the class to self isolate ?

How far back does contract tracing go ?

If you can not isolate the source of the infection is it put down to community transmission?

What is classed ie (how many children )as an outbreak in a primary school ?

What criteria is needed to establish transmission in school ?

hesaidshesaid

P2C wrote: »

Doing a bit of work in the field and we are seeing a lot of 18th birthdays and other gatherings, shindigs and get together particularly among the17-19 age cohort. I have no doubt the seeds are being planted for the next wave. So far weare seeing limited transmissions in the classroom during class or student to teacher in secondary. We are seeing a bit in primary. Secondary We transmission is normally at break times when students are mixing without masks indoors and outdoors. A lot more traffic this week so suspect by Easter cases will be on the rise. I say 8/10 of our cases in school so far were transmitted in the community or heavily linked back to party’s, sharing lifts or house gatherings.

Thanks for some insider info, good to hear it’s being gathered.

Can I ask where your study is getting its numbers from? Are you doing your own investigations or are you part of the Public Health response and using their data?

If a case in a school can be linked to a birthday party for example, I assume it’s noted as community transmission. If this case results in other cases in the school, how are they noted? Community or school transmission?

Thanks

Locotastic

jrosen wrote: »

Do people even care anymore? I have spoken to some friends who were some of the most rule following people regarding covid restrictions. Even they are letting their kids out to play, one has gone back to the office 2 days a week out of her 5 out of choice. She can work from home. She said initially it was the boss there, now there are 7 people all working that day out of choice. They social distance and only use their own desks/keyboards etc but they chat albeit from behind their desks. There has been an increase in cars visiting in my estate.

We were all knuckling down waiting for the elderly to be vaccinated and it seems life is getting further and further away.

People don't care anymore, can't say I blame them. Too many restrictions for far too long and that's what you get.

They'd be as well to just open everything up at this point because even the most diligent followers of guidelines have had their fill.

P2C

Not involved in research. Working on schools but also complex cases. My post is my view on what I have saw and dealt with in our during the last two weeks since schools returned. First week was really quite with mainly queries. A noticeable increase during week two. If we link a direct case to a party or a gathering it’s a community transmission. If people who were at the party are positive and come to school and pass the virus to anyone else in school / break times/ bus etc it is a school transmission. There has being a changes to the national SOP and more contacts in primary and secondary in our area are being screened and tested than at any stage before Xmas due to the new variant. Crèches are the same as everyone in a room were defined as close contacts. If it is circulating in the community it will no doubt be in the schools, crèches and any setting where people congregate. In our area household parties outside of school are the biggest contributors to secondary school activity at the moment.

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Thanks for some insider info, good to hear it’s being gathered.

Can I ask where your study is getting its numbers from? Are you doing your own investigations or are you part of the Public Health response and using their data?

If a case in a school can be linked to a birthday party for example, I assume it’s noted as community transmission. If this case results in other cases in the school, how are they noted? Community or school transmission?

Thanks

hesaidshesaid

P2C wrote: »

Not involved in research. Working on schools but also complex cases. My post is my view on what I have saw and dealt with in our during the last two weeks since schools returned. First week was really quite with mainly queries. A noticeable increase during week two. If we link a direct case to a party or a gathering it’s a community transmission. If people who were at the party are positive and come to school and pass the virus to anyone else in school / break times/ bus etc it is a school transmission. There has being a changes to the national SOP and more contacts in primary and secondary in our area are being screened and tested than at any stage before Xmas due to the new variant. Crèches are the same as everyone in a room were defined as close contacts. If it is circulating in the community it will no doubt be in the schools, crèches and any setting where people congregate. In our area household parties outside of school are the biggest contributors to secondary school activity at the moment.

Thanks for all that.

You say there have been changes to the national SOP with more close contacts being tested due to the new variant. Do you know if this approach will extend to 3rd- 6th classes who are supposedly in pods?

P2C

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/guidance/educationguidance/

Most of what your looking for is part of the guidance on the hspc website

quote="lulublue22;116594327"]How many schools do you deal with ? Are you speaking from a local or national perspective.

For primary school - are you part of a dedicated school team ? How many are on the school team ?

If so
what criteria are the team using to determine a close contact in a school setting ?

Do you visit the school / class or do you get photo’s of the layout of the class before making determinations of who is or is not a close contact ?

What class grouping in primary has the most cases ?

In how many cases have you asked the class to self isolate ?

How far back does contract tracing go ?

If you can not isolate the source of the infection is it put down to community transmission?

What is classed ie (how many children )as an outbreak in a primary school ?

What criteria is needed to establish transmission in school ?[/quote]

lulublue22

P2C wrote: »

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/guidance/educationguidance/

Most of what your looking for is part of the guidance on the hspc website

quote="lulublue22;116594327"]How many schools do you deal with ? Are you speaking from a local or national perspective.

For primary school - are you part of a dedicated school team ? How many are on the school team ?

If so
what criteria are the team using to determine a close contact in a school setting ?

Do you visit the school / class or do you get photo’s of the layout of the class before making determinations of who is or is not a close contact ?

What class grouping in primary has the most cases ?

In how many cases have you asked the class to self isolate ?

How far back does contract tracing go ?

If you can not isolate the source of the infection is it put down to community transmission?

What is classed ie (how many children )as an outbreak in a primary school ?

What criteria is needed to establish transmission in school ?

[/quote]

I’m actually interested in your own experiences - on the ground response as opposed to official guidance part in relation to the procedures followed in defining close contact in a school setting - particularly in relation to how class size and layout are accounted for and if there are dedicated school teams and how many schools ( part. primary ) you or your local area has dealt with. If the 8/10 cases is representative of the national picture , is it representative of your local area or just the cases you have dealt with. I’d really like to have the 8/10 cases put into perspective. tks

P2C

There has being a lot more routine testing in post primary and beyond the pod in primary so far in my experience. Again mitigating factors are taken into account. The HPSC report the screening weekly so will be interesting to see the positivity data compared to before Xmas. In the schools we screened last week there were more contacts gathered than in schools before Xmas . We are asked to take a more cautious approach due to the new variant. Schools are only back and I say by Easter we will have a clearer picture. But in my opinion I think it will be a busy few weeks for us until Easter. If the cases go high in the community schools will be very hard to manage or everyone will be out. If I was in charge I would do remote learning in counties with lots of community transmission and allow schools to open in counties with low levels of cases.

quote="hesaidshesaid;116594941"]Thanks for all that.

You say there have been changes to the national SOP with more close contacts being tested due to the new variant. Do you know if this approach will extend to 3rd- 6th classes who are supposedly in pods?[/quote]

SusanC10

If a child in say 5th Class contracts the virus at say a family gathering and goes to school asymptomatic. Subsequently the child tests positive (as a result of close contact tracing of a family member) - who is going to be currently tested from the Class at school ? The entire Class plus Teacher ?
Class are sitting in a U-shape configuration of tables all joined together with everyone facing inwards.

lulublue22

SusanC10 wrote: »

If a child in say 5th Class contracts the virus at say a family gathering and goes to school asymptomatic. Subsequently the child tests positive (as a result of close contact tracing of a family member) - who is going to be currently tested from the Class at school ? The entire Class plus Teacher ?
Class are sitting in a U-shape configuration of tables all joined together with everyone facing inwards.

That ties in with what is the procedure for ascertaining the layout of a classroom - the size of the room , numbers in the class , number if windows etc. Surely at primary given masks are not worn ( no masks in our school other than staff ) these are important considerations in determining who is or is not a close contact. Is an onsite visit initiated , are photo’s requested ? I have asked but not received a reply.

average_runner

jrosen wrote: »

Do people even care anymore? I have spoken to some friends who were some of the most rule following people regarding covid restrictions. Even they are letting their kids out to play, one has gone back to the office 2 days a week out of her 5 out of choice. She can work from home. She said initially it was the boss there, now there are 7 people all working that day out of choice. They social distance and only use their own desks/keyboards etc but they chat albeit from behind their desks. There has been an increase in cars visiting in my estate.

We were all knuckling down waiting for the elderly to be vaccinated and it seems life is getting further and further away.

There is no harm in letting kids out to play. Professor Stefan Baral has even gone as far as to say all outdoor sports should be on.


Going into the office is harmless if no one close to you also. Haven't venture near my office, but my neighbour goes in once a week, he has his own office there so no harm

average_runner

lulublue22 wrote: »

If things do go south ( fingers crossed they don’t) I hope a more nuanced response to school closures will be implemented.

Close it based on the school. Why would you close schools with next to none cases? If the parents behave, don't send their kids to school even if it looks like symptoms in the house, everything be ok.


Dont punish the schools where the parents are keeping the virus away from the school

average_runner

SusanC10 wrote: »

If a child in say 5th Class contracts the virus at say a family gathering and goes to school asymptomatic. Subsequently the child tests positive (as a result of close contact tracing of a family member) - who is going to be currently tested from the Class at school ? The entire Class plus Teacher ?
Class are sitting in a U-shape configuration of tables all joined together with everyone facing inwards.

That setup of tables is not in all schools. Our kids 4th class aren't sitting that way, its 3 on a table, 2m away from the next table

SusanC10

average_runner wrote: »

That setup of tables is not in all schools. Our kids 4th class aren't sitting that way, its 3 on a table, 2m away from the next table

No, I know that. I was just wondering on a particular setup.

average_runner

SusanC10 wrote: »

No, I know that. I was just wondering on a particular setup.

The three cases that happened in our kids school.



1) Principal sent home everyone on the same table for the required amount of time
2) Two kids tested positive, from different homes, source was the home.
Sent the whole class home for the required amount of time and did remote learning.

brilou23

Will Schools close tomorrow or do they have to catch up on days.

Rosita

average_runner wrote: »

Close it based on the school. Why would you close schools with next to none cases? If the parents behave, don't send their kids to school even if it looks like symptoms in the house, everything be ok.


Dont punish the schools where the parents are keeping the virus away from the school

I'd imagine that's what the poster actually meant by "a more nuanced response".

penny piper

brilou23 wrote: »

Will Schools close tomorrow or do they have to catch up on days.

Why would schools have to stay open tomorrow...plenty of time for students to catch up........I suppose parents at home tomorrow could give their children study to do if they think they need it....it's St.Patricks day a Bank holiday..

Warbeastrior

Is outside still safe enough without masks?