Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

byhookorbycrook

Hurrache wrote: »

They have tested whole classes at primary level.

Very few, unfortunately, it seems to depend on the individual HSE rep. who contacts the school.



Realistically, they are unlikely to close schools after Easter until after the Leaving Cert, I reckon. Primaries will limp along with classes being sent home and with the special education teachers being used as mainstream substitutes as teachers have to self isolate/fall ill.

hesaidshesaid

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Very few, unfortunately, it seems to depend on the individual HSE rep. who contacts the school.



Realistically, they are unlikely to close schools after Easter until after the Leaving Cert, I reckon. Primaries will limp along with classes being sent home and with the special education teachers being used as mainstream substitutes as teachers have to self isolate/fall ill.

Really object to SET teachers being thrown into mainstream classes at the cost of their own students. I work with 16 6th class kids who have missed a significant amount of in-school teaching over the past year. Some have learning support needs, some have social skill needs, all are valid needs. These kids need continuity more than most. A couple are really struggling to readjust to school life this week. The amount of background info (specific areas of need, home situations etc) you gain by working with these kids for a couple of years is invaluable and cannot be replicated by a sub. It’s practically impossible to get a sub anyway, which means I’d be in a class and they wouldn’t get any small-group support. DES need to acknowledge this issue and come up with a plan. A pre-emptive plan, not a reactive one.

TTLF

I'm back to say I've successfully sat all my mock exams with no issues.

We're now back into school from today until next Friday doing classes. It's been a tiring week 1/2 though and I'm absolutely wrecked. I slept for 12 hours on Tuesday night haha

I'm back in school today, being told that my Geography "Field Study" was cancelled, so now we've got to do the practical through looking at old projects and creating our own primary data etc, it's all a mess in my opinion.

My German Oral is in 12 days and I'm still writing my notes up for it too, it's going to be a stressful few weeks with the due dates so close by.

I hope everyone else has had a less "chaotic" return to schools... :pac:

byhookorbycrook

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Really object to SET teachers being thrown into mainstream classes at the cost of their own students. I work with 16 6th class kids who have missed a significant amount of in-school teaching over the past year. Some have learning support needs, some have social skill needs, all are valid needs. These kids need continuity more than most. A couple are really struggling to readjust to school life this week. The amount of background info (specific areas of need, home situations etc) you gain by working with these kids for a couple of years is invaluable and cannot be replicated by a sub. It’s practically impossible to get a sub anyway, which means I’d be in a class and they wouldn’t get any small-group support. DES need to acknowledge this issue and come up with a plan. A pre-emptive plan, not a reactive one.

I couldn’t agree more . Norma and Josepha keeping schtum on that and Mr. Harris the same .

shtpEdthePlum

Given the fact that there's a staggered reopening, would it not be worth breaking down the ages of children differently.

0-5, 6-12, 13-15, 16-18 to represent the classes as they have come back, in mainstream schools anyway. That data would probably be very revealing.

Sheep breeder

Question for the secondary teachers on here, what is going to happen when they return to school with the kids that haven’t attended classes or submitted homework, are the teachers going to go back over all subjects they have missed by not turning up online or continue on.
And what about the kids that have turned up and grafted, are they going to have to go back over what they have done or move on.

Reason I ask is our second year in history today 12 out of 25 tuned in and maths 14 tuned in, was in the town today where the school is before lunch and the amount of teenagers walk around was unreal.

Random sample

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Question for the secondary teachers on here, what is going to happen when they return to school with the kids that haven’t attended classes or submitted homework, are the teachers going to go back over all subjects they have missed by not turning up online or continue on.
And what about the kids that have turned up and grafted, are they going to have to go back over what they have done or move on.

Reason I ask is our second year in history today 12 out of 25 tuned in and maths 14 tuned in, was in the town today where the school is before lunch and the amount of teenagers walk around was unreal.

I can only speak for myself here, but I will not have time to go back over everything I’ve done since January. I will have a different approach for each group. Some higher level students will be moving to ordinary level classes at the earliest opportunity. For my ordinary level classes, I will do quick revisions of what was done, it’ll give them enough to pass, I hope, but that’s all I’ll have time for.

Kids missing from my classes are the ones who are sprawled across desks in normal times anyway, they wouldn’t be paying attention at the best of times.

It baffles me that the parents will have them up and out for school though, but don’t seem to have enough influence to get them infront of a computer.

combat14

Tough Covid restrictions will last until June despite official all-clear for AstraZeneca vaccine

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/tough-covid-restrictionswill-last-until-june-despite-official-all-clear-for-astrazeneca-vaccine-40214502.html

yep, looks with schools reopening too early summer is about to be cancelled just great

wirelessdude01

combat14 wrote: »

Tough Covid restrictions will last until June despite official all-clear for AstraZeneca vaccine

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/tough-covid-restrictionswill-last-until-june-despite-official-all-clear-for-astrazeneca-vaccine-40214502.html

yep, looks with schools reopening too early summer is about to be cancelled just great

Another stick with which to beat educators.

DSN

Random sample wrote: »

I can only speak for myself here, but I will not have time to go back over everything I’ve done since January. I will have a different approach for each group. Some higher level students will be moving to ordinary level classes at the earliest opportunity. For my ordinary level classes, I will do quick revisions of what was done, it’ll give them enough to pass, I hope, but that’s all I’ll have time for.

Kids missing from my classes are the ones who are sprawled across desks in normal times anyway, they wouldn’t be paying attention at the best of times.

It baffles me that the parents will have them up and out for school though, but don’t seem to have enough influence to get them infront of a computer.

While I get my guy up & in front of the computer not alot going in anymore. I am still popping in & out catching him gone back to bed or on tube. However I wfm if I was out working what control would I have? People on here with no kids themselves school age saying who cares it's only few weeks of school left, carry on 'remote' until me & my family vaccinated wind me up. Not all kids are super self motivated or have parents who can sit with them 9 to 4 & hold their hand through every lesson (nor should they) this carries on they'll be a cohort who won't bother going back to school in September que even more teens out on the street up to no good & no going back.
School is more than just academics , teachers are major influencers in kids lives but not from behind a screen for much longer.

Random sample

DSN wrote: »

While I get my guy up & in front of the computer not alot going in anymore. I am still popping in & out catching him gone back to bed or on tube. However I wfm if I was out working what control would I have? People on here with no kids themselves school age saying who cares it's only few weeks of school left, carry on 'remote' until me & my family vaccinated wind me up. Not all kids are super self motivated or have parents who can sit with them 9 to 4 & hold their hand through every lesson (nor should they) this carries on they'll be a cohort who won't bother going back to school in September que even more teens out on the street up to no good & no going back.
School is more than just academics , teachers are major influencers in kids lives but not from behind a screen for much longer.

I know personality comes into it, but I have students who turn up to every single class because that’s what you do. It’s what is expected of them from their parents and teachers and they don’t question how they might get out of that. Same way they turn up for school every day. I have other students that I haven’t seen sight nor light of since December who will turn up on 12 April in full clean uniform and black shoes. They don’t seem to connect to online learning in the same way. Expectations have some (and I appreciate not full) influence on this.

scrubs33

A good Easter weather wise could lead to serious issues in a few weeks in my opinion. Already around here in the evenings over the past week or so kids of all ages are out playing/mixing in groups where there are multiple households involved. I really hope I’m wrong though.

lulublue22

Random sample wrote: »

I know personality comes into it, but I have students who turn up to every single class because that’s what you do. It’s what is expected of them from their parents and teachers and they don’t question how they might get out of that. Same way they turn up for school every day. I have other students that I haven’t seen sight nor light of since December who will turn up on 12 April in full clean uniform and black shoes. They don’t seem to connect to online learning in the same way. Expectations have some (and I appreciate not full) influence on this.

I think it’s a mix - expectations certainly plays a part but so too does personality and learning style. It can be really difficult for some children to sit in front of a screen all day. I know this time round the mecca was live classes across all subjects. I firmly believe that you can not replicate a school day via remote learning. My 3rd year was genuinely run into the ground from live classes all day every day. There was very little down time to compensate ie no chat with friends at breaktime , no couple of mins to have a breather and a natter before teacher arrives etc. My girl is very social and loves the social aspect of school. She’s also conscientious and did not meet up with friends since this lockdown. That’s hard - and to be far to secondary students it can be difficult to keep the motivation going in those circumstances.

am_zarathustra

Learning styles are a completely made up notion widely discredited by neurophysiologist and cognitive specialists along with anyone interested in reading educational research. Expectations are very important in education, a child coming from a house where they have expectations places on them to carry themselves and their responsibilities will do better in online learning. A good, reliable and conscientious parent will always have more control of their child than a teacher, and rightly so. I only see them a few hours a few for a few years.

The kids who are not online generally follow a pattern hat most teachers could identify. A very small number of outliers exist, as in previously attentive, well mannered kids interested in learning who have found online learning beyond them, usually for mental health issues and then very high achievers who are finding balance difficult. I think a lot of parents might have found out how difficult it is to get their 14 year old darling to do anything they don't want to so maybe they will be more receptive to issues arising in school as a result.

I totally agree though the younger kids are beginning to fray, it's a very long time and while they'll keep up with the work you can really feel them missing the social aspect of school. I'm really hoping they'll be back after easter even for that few weeks.

scrubs33

scrubs33 wrote: »

A good Easter weather wise could lead to serious issues in a few weeks in my opinion. Already around here in the evenings over the past week or so kids of all ages are out playing/mixing in groups where there are multiple households involved. I really hope I’m wrong though.

A good easter weather wise would more likely have the opposite effect. If people are going to socialise over easter, they will socialise irrespective of the weather. Its far more likely to be outside if the the weather is good however, where the risk is a tiny fraction of the indoor risk

Warbeastrior

penny piper wrote:

Covid-19 inspectors are saying 98% of schools are complying with pandemic rules.......but now concern is growing that some schools are pressing ahead with mock exams without public health advice...The state examination commission has advised that secondary schools should not hold mock exams and that available class time should be spent on teaching/learning with students.. One teacher in co.louth has said their school is holding mock exams with students allowed to take a mask break every 40mins...The TUI has said that running mock exams are contrary to public health advice and would put the health/safety of students/teachers/all school community in jeopardy. Teacher's unions have all called for additional safety measures such as masks for older primary school children and air quality control monitors in classrooms....unfortunately to no avail as public health authorities have not recommended this according to the Dept.of Education

Absolute rubbish.
I work with LCA's in a secondary school and the guidelines are non existent.
Masks never worn properly, windows being closed because its "too cold".
Absolutely no social distancing.
I even saw some of them sharing a bottle.

There is no way that 98% of schools are following guidelines or I should say are ABLE to follow guidelines. Its not realistic when working with children.

Warbeastrior

Warbeastrior wrote: »

Absolute rubbish.
I work with LCA's in a secondary school and the guidelines are non existent.
Masks never worn properly, windows being closed because its "too cold".
Absolutely no social distancing.
I even saw some of them sharing a bottle.

There is no way that 98% of schools are following guidelines or I should say are ABLE to follow guidelines. Its not realistic when working with children.

Individual behaviours

Teacher2020

Warbeastrior wrote: »

There is no way that 98% of schools are following guidelines or I should say are ABLE to follow guidelines. Its not realistic when working with children.

We had 2 days notice for our COVID inspection.
Anyone can follow guidelines for a few hours when given a few days notice.
The inspectors aren't seeing what is really happening.

lulublue22

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Learning styles are a completely made up notion widely discredited by neurophysiologist and cognitive specialists along with anyone interested in reading educational research. Expectations are very important in education, a child coming from a house where they have expectations places on them to carry themselves and their responsibilities will do better in online learning. A good, reliable and conscientious parent will always have more control of their child than a teacher, and rightly so. I only see them a few hours a few for a few years.

The kids who are not online generally follow a pattern hat most teachers could identify. A very small number of outliers exist, as in previously attentive, well mannered kids interested in learning who have found online learning beyond them, usually for mental health issues and then very high achievers who are finding balance difficult. I think a lot of parents might have found out how difficult it is to get their 14 year old darling to do anything they don't want to so maybe they will be more receptive to issues arising in school as a result.

I totally agree though the younger kids are beginning to fray, it's a very long time and while they'll keep up with the work you can really feel them missing the social aspect of school. I'm really hoping they'll be back after easter even for that few weeks.

Well it’s not filtered down to primary school then - our school incorporates a mix of learning - audio ,visual , kinesthetic, hands on learning through doing is very important in the school I teach in. it’s also something that I have noticed in my own children - very different learning styles between them expectations of achievement very high no mental health issues. One style of learning does not suit all children.

penny piper

Teacher2020 wrote: »

We had 2 days notice for our COVID inspection.
Anyone can follow guidelines for a few hours when given a few days notice.
The inspectors aren't seeing what is really happening.

Are the inspectors even bothered? I know I have wrote this before but in my sons school where he teaches ...before christmas an inspector came up ...said oh the windows are open....and went...didn't seem care about anything else...

Icyseanfitz

Deleted User wrote: »

Individual behaviours

so as long as the schools theoretically have measures in place they are complying to pandemic rules, doesnt matter whether the students obey them or not as they are individuals? i swear for every legitimate safety concern voiced with regards to schools someone comes out with a neat little loophole to ensure "schools are safe"

As an aside my LCA students are the exact same. They also all hop into a single car for lunch together (5 of them) with masks off, not of concern to us though seeing as they are individuals :rolleyes:

josip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHbzSif78qQ&t=29s

am_zarathustra

lulublue22 wrote: »

Well it’s not filtered down to primary school then - our school incorporates a mix of learning - audio ,visual , kinesthetic, hands on learning through doing is very important in the school I teach in. it’s also something that I have noticed in my own children - very different learning styles between them expectations of achievement very high no mental health issues. One style of learning does not suit all children.

This isn't my opinion, this is everyone who works in the area along with all empirical research.

www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/557687/

This is a good introduction to why people maintain this bias but, to be clear, it like homeopathy, there is no evidence it works other than it makes people who believe it feel nice.

There are also inumerate peer reviewed articles I could recommend. Varience in learning is to maintain interest not because johnny is great at remembering pictures. I'm very surprised any primary school is still peddling this snake oil as it was, but as I said above varience is lovely in teaching just for interest

FishOnABike

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2021/0318/1204763-coronavirus-education/
...
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40247117.html?utm_campaign=40247267&utm_medium=readmore&utm_source=irishexaminer

One has to wonder if the right hand knows what the left hand is doing.

BonsaiKitten

am_zarathustra wrote: »

This isn't my opinion, this is everyone who works in the area along with all empirical research.

www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/557687/

This is a good introduction to why people maintain this bias but, to be clear, it like homeopathy, there is no evidence it works other than it makes people who believe it feel nice.

There are also inumerate peer reviewed articles I could recommend. Varience in learning is to maintain interest not because johnny is great at remembering pictures. I'm very surprised any primary school is still peddling this snake oil as it was, but as I said above varience is lovely in teaching just for interest

Oh it's hugely popular in primary schools, yeah. Any other teacher I mention it to is usually shocked as explicitly catering to learning styles is A Thing a lot of people do.

I use it as a quality barometer at CPD - if it gets trotted out, it's just a sign that whatever is being peddled isn't particularly scientific.

lulublue22

am_zarathustra wrote: »

This isn't my opinion, this is everyone who works in the area along with all empirical research.

www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/557687/

This is a good introduction to why people maintain this bias but, to be clear, it like homeopathy, there is no evidence it works other than it makes people who believe it feel nice.

There are also inumerate peer reviewed articles I could recommend. Varience in learning is to maintain interest not because johnny is great at remembering pictures. I'm very surprised any primary school is still peddling this snake oil as it was, but as I said above varience is lovely in teaching just for interest

Isn’t maintaining interest a core factor of enhanced learning. Not all children have the same level of intrinsic motivation - children do not exist as a hive mentality. I’ve taught across a number of contexts - Deis , mainstream , special ed . I’ve taught children within the average range and above with significant additional needs including dyslexia and ASD. From the DEIS perspective I have learned the value of a high expectation , interest and value that the home plays in children’s learning. From the dyslexic / ASD perspective I have learned the value varying teaching to meet the learning needs of my class. As many reviews as there are it will not alter my experiences of the value of varying teaching to meet the various different types of learners.

lulublue22

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Oh it's hugely popular in primary schools, yeah. Any other teacher I mention it to is usually shocked as explicitly catering to learning styles is A Thing a lot of people do.

I use it as a quality barometer at CPD - if it gets trotted out, it's just a sign that whatever is being peddled isn't particularly scientific.

I know from what you have posted before that you teach in a solidly middle class school - how do you accommodate a dyslexic child who is in the average range or above who can only access text at a 6 yr old level if you do not vary your teaching to meet their learning style ? Surely they are not given books at their level of accessing text without catering for their ability ? Or is it a case that your school does not have these children ?

BonsaiKitten

lulublue22 wrote: »

I know from what you have posted before that you teach in a solidly middle class school - how do you accommodate a dyslexic child who is in the average range or above who can only access text at a 6 yr old level if you do not vary your teaching to meet their learning style ? Surely they are not given books at their level of accessing text without catering for their ability ? Or is it a case that your school does not have these children ?

Yeah that's differentiation you're talking about there, not learning styles. You do understand that it's possible to cater for varying abilities and not believe in learning styles, don't you? Prior to this school I taught in DEIS. Didn't buy into learning styles there either. They're a neuromyth akin to people only using 10% of their brain.

lulublue22

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Yeah that's differentiation you're talking about there, not learning styles. You do understand that it's possible to cater for varying abilities and not believe in learning styles, don't you? Prior to this school I taught in DEIS. Didn't buy into learning styles there either. They're a neuromyth akin to people only using 10% of their brain.

So you have never come across the child who who can listen to a story and immediately identify the salient points yet struggles to do so when reading the same story. Or the child who can give a fab oral presentation but will struggle to present the facts in a written piece. Everyone does not process information in the same way.
If a 5 th class child is accessing text at a 6 yr old level you are not differentiating you are presenting information in a way that the child can access - usually aurally or through the use of assistive technology that is catering for the child’s learning style.

BonsaiKitten

lulublue22 wrote: »

So you have never come across the child who who can listen to a story and immediately identify the salient points yet struggles to do so when reading the same story. Or the child who can give a fab oral presentation but will struggle to present the facts in a written piece. Everyone does not process information in the same way.
If a 5 th class child is accessing text at a 6 yr old level you are not differentiating you are presenting information in a way that the child can access - usually aurally or through the use of assistive technology that is catering for the child’s learning style.

Of course you are differentiating, you're differentiating by content or by support used. Every good teacher does that, just as every good teacher varies the methods of presentation.

But do I slap the label "visual learner" on Sally, Tom and Harry and call David, Ciara and Anna "kinaesthetic learners"? No, I don't. Because I use evidence based teaching methods and there's no scientific evidence for learning styles. So I don't pigeonhole my students with unverified labels.

This is dragging the thread off topic so I'll stop commenting about learning styles now.