Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

downthemiddle

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Ohh what delights have we been bestowed with?

"There has been continuous engagement with education partners on this matter since
Monday, building on weekly engagement between partners and public health
throughout the school year. Despite the confirmation by Public Health that schools
remain safe, unfortunately it has not proved possible to get agreement to provide inperson learning for these groups.
In these circumstances, there is no alternative but to pause the limited reopening on
Monday subject to further engagement. As of Monday 11 January students, including
children with special needs, should be provided with a programme of remote learning.
The Department is conscious that closing schools has hugely adverse consequences
at individual, family and societal level. For children, it impacts on wellbeing, learning,
on social and emotional development.
School closure has significant impacts on children with special educational needs.
School closure also heightens student anxiety, particularly for the Leaving Certificate
cohort, in relation to state examinations.
It is important to note that NPHET remains of the view that schools are low risk
environments"

They are playing the finger pointing game.

downthemiddle

FAO Parents these are the expectations that should be met.

"The following requirements in relation to remote teaching and learning of all
pupils/students are particularly important:
Regular engagement with pupils/students: It is important that teachers
engage with their pupils/students; in a primary setting this should, ideally, be on
a daily basis; in a post-primary context teachers should, as far as possible,
engage with students as per the normal school timetable.
A blend of guided and independent learning tasks/experiences:
Teacherpupil/student engagement should involve both direct teaching by the teacher
and the assignment of independent learning tasks for completion by the
pupils/students.
Appropriate and engaging learning opportunities: Teachers should ensure
that the chosen learning tasks give pupils/students an opportunity to
demonstrate their learning in a clear and concise way.
Learning tasks: The tasks chosen should be specifically aligned to the needs
of the pupil/student, including pupils/students with SEN, and should enable the
teacher to monitor progress and give constructive, developmental feedback to
support the next stages in their learning.
Two-way feedback between home and school: Schools should ensure that
two-way feedback between teachers and parents/guardians and between
teachers and their pupils/students is encouraged and supported. Schools
should provide manageable and accessible opportunities for all pupils/ students
to regularly share samples of their work with the teacher(s) throughout each
week. Teachers should ensure that work received is corrected and relevant
feedback is provided.
Support for pupils/students with SEN: Special education teachers (SETs)
should continue to engage with the pupils/students on their caseloads and
class/subject teachers should differentiate teaching and learning in line with
their pupils’/students’ needs to minimise disruption to their learning and
progression.

wirelessdude01

downthemiddle wrote: »

"There has been continuous engagement with education partners on this matter since
Monday, building on weekly engagement between partners and public health
throughout the school year. Despite the confirmation by Public Health that schools
remain safe, unfortunately it has not proved possible to get agreement to provide inperson learning for these groups.
In these circumstances, there is no alternative but to pause the limited reopening on
Monday subject to further engagement. As of Monday 11 January students, including
children with special needs, should be provided with a programme of remote learning.
The Department is conscious that closing schools has hugely adverse consequences
at individual, family and societal level. For children, it impacts on wellbeing, learning,
on social and emotional development.
School closure has significant impacts on children with special educational needs.
School closure also heightens student anxiety, particularly for the Leaving Certificate
cohort, in relation to state examinations.
It is important to note that NPHET remains of the view that schools are low risk
environments"

They are playing the finger pointing game.

She is throwing teachers an a profession under the bus. I'd love to know what her former colleagues in Kerry think of her now?

downthemiddle

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

She is throwing teachers an a profession under the bus. I'd love to know what her former colleagues in Kerry think of her now?

Over thirty years in the job without a managerial position clearly makes you the ideal candidate as Minister for Education.

Endintheclowns

What this calls for now is calm heads but the minister looks like she wants a us versus them situation to deflect blame for years of underinvestment in education in general but especially the special needs school sector.

wirelessdude01

See the interview with Norma was prerecorded. Guessing she didn't want to be subjected to any questions and criticism that would have been texted in.

wirelessdude01

Endintheclowns wrote: »

What this calls for now is calm heads but the minister looks like she wants a us versus them situation to deflect blame for years of underinvestment in education in general but especially the special needs school sector.

She is trying to position teachers as the ones denying the pupils of their "traditional" leaving cert.

jimmytwotimes 2013

downthemiddle wrote: »

Over thirty years in the job without a managerial position clearly makes you the ideal candidate as Minister for Education.

I'd be slower to trust someone who is in management tbh

Tho Norma might be the exception to prove the rule

BonsaiKitten

downthemiddle wrote: »

FAO Parents these are the expectations that should be met.

Not a dig at you here but I'd honestly love to know if any parent got something useful from those guidelines. So feckin woolly.

wirelessdude01

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Not a dig at you here but I'd honestly love to know if any parent got something useful from those guidelines. So feckin woolly.

So open to different interpretation depending on what way you want to view things.

wirelessdude01

€50m for provision of online platforms?

She is throwing plenty of figures out.

downthemiddle

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Not a dig at you here but I'd honestly love to know if any parent got something useful from those guidelines. So feckin woolly.

Don't worry, they are not my guidelines.

antgal23

downthemiddle wrote: »

"There has been continuous engagement with education partners on this matter since
Monday, building on weekly engagement between partners and public health
throughout the school year. Despite the confirmation by Public Health that schools
remain safe, unfortunately it has not proved possible to get agreement to provide inperson learning for these groups.
In these circumstances, there is no alternative but to pause the limited reopening on
Monday subject to further engagement. As of Monday 11 January students, including
children with special needs, should be provided with a programme of remote learning.
The Department is conscious that closing schools has hugely adverse consequences
at individual, family and societal level. For children, it impacts on wellbeing, learning,
on social and emotional development.
School closure has significant impacts on children with special educational needs.
School closure also heightens student anxiety, particularly for the Leaving Certificate
cohort, in relation to state examinations.
It is important to note that NPHET remains of the view that schools are low risk
environments"

They are playing the finger pointing game.

So, if schools are safe why close them?

wirelessdude01

Talking to a colleague of mine who tested positive over Christmas. When they were asked with regards to their movement and where they had been over the two probable days when they become infected, the public health person talking to them said that it was more 90% likely that they picked it up in school on the 21st/22nd but because there was a slight doubt that they'd put it down as community transmission.

hesaidshesaid

eviltwin wrote: »

Teachers can’t really expect parents to cover the same work that would be covered in class? I’m working, it will be a miracle if we cover even the basics. As for Irish, forget it. I wouldn’t have a clue where to start.

Teachers definitely don't expect that from parents. But as you can see, the Department of Education does. Ridiculous.

My advice to you is to try to cover Maths and English most days and apart from that just try to keep sane. I mean that sincerely. Khalessi's thread on help for parents with homeschooling may be useful.

My friend is a secondary school teacher with three primary school kids who was told this morning that she can't prerecord lessons and has to do live teaching all day without childcare. So many parents are in similar situations. So please don't worry about teachers' expectations. We don't have any. Just do whatever is possible.

History Queen

Queried wrote: »

Can I ask why you think this? As a teacher who cares hugely about their students I find this insulting.

Check his posting history, all will be revealed!

hesaidshesaid

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Talking to a colleague of mine who tested positive over Christmas. When they were asked with regards to their movement and where they had been over the two probable days when they become infected, the public health person talking to them said that it was more 90% likely that they picked it up in school on the 21st/22nd but because there was a slight doubt that they'd put it down as community transmission.

Went into school to get books this morning and heard that 2 of our teachers tested positive that week too. One of them had a negative test, which was then chosen by the test centre as one to be randomly retested. It was positive. She ended up isolating alone in her apartment all over Christmas and New Years. Very tough. Again it was 'community transmission'.

BonsaiKitten

downthemiddle wrote: »

Don't worry, they are not my guidelines.

Oh sure I know it's the Departments wonderful online learning guidelines! Published in October and backdated to March or something like that, wasn't it? You couldn't make it up.

penny piper

I've just listened to the interview with Norma Foley with fmtv.......How she is allowed by interviewers to continuously bleat the same mantra it's beyond belief.....Has Ms.Foley been at the same meetings as the Unions? I've never listened to such drivel from a Politician in my life...

Stateofyou

downthemiddle wrote: »

FAO Parents these are the expectations that should be met.

"The following requirements in relation to remote teaching and learning of all
pupils/students are particularly important:
Regular engagement with pupils/students: It is important that teachers
engage with their pupils/students; in a primary setting this should, ideally, be on
a daily basis; in a post-primary context teachers should, as far as possible,
engage with students as per the normal school timetable.
A blend of guided and independent learning tasks/experiences:
Teacherpupil/student engagement should involve both direct teaching by the teacher
and the assignment of independent learning tasks for completion by the
pupils/students.
Appropriate and engaging learning opportunities: Teachers should ensure
that the chosen learning tasks give pupils/students an opportunity to
demonstrate their learning in a clear and concise way.
Learning tasks: The tasks chosen should be specifically aligned to the needs
of the pupil/student, including pupils/students with SEN, and should enable the
teacher to monitor progress and give constructive, developmental feedback to
support the next stages in their learning.
Two-way feedback between home and school: Schools should ensure that
two-way feedback between teachers and parents/guardians and between
teachers and their pupils/students is encouraged and supported. Schools
should provide manageable and accessible opportunities for all pupils/ students
to regularly share samples of their work with the teacher(s) throughout each
week. Teachers should ensure that work received is corrected and relevant
feedback is provided.
Support for pupils/students with SEN: Special education teachers (SETs)
should continue to engage with the pupils/students on their caseloads and
class/subject teachers should differentiate teaching and learning in line with
their pupils’/students’ needs to minimise disruption to their learning and
progression.

Where did this come from?

It sounds official; this is good for us/dealing with our school because we have a principal who historically hasn't allowed teachers direct contact with parents. Specifically speaking on last lockdown, they weren't even allowed have contact with their own students either.

wirelessdude01

Stateofyou wrote: »

Where did this come from?

It sounds official; this is good for us/dealing with our school because we have a principal who historically hasn't allowed teachers direct contact with parents. Specifically speaking on last lockdown, they weren't even allowed have contact with their own students either.

Hopefully things will be different in those schools during this period.

downthemiddle

Stateofyou wrote: »

Where did this come from?

Communication from the DES to schools this evening.

Stateofyou

downthemiddle wrote: »

Communication from the DES to schools this evening.

Jesus, that's laughable though isn't it? All these months to plan, remote learning begins Monday, and they send the guidelines only this evening? I suppose it's not much really though, in that it's very vague. Most of you must have permanent high blood pressure.

Inviere

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Talking to a colleague of mine who tested positive over Christmas. When they were asked with regards to their movement and where they had been over the two probable days when they become infected, the public health person talking to them said that it was more 90% likely that they picked it up in school on the 21st/22nd but because there was a slight doubt that they'd put it down as community transmission.

I've heard of several first hand examples of this exact thing from various different school staff. It very much appears to be an underhanded attempt to massage statistics. I've also heard directly that a student tested positive on a particular Wednesday, and the school was not officially informed until the following Tuesday by the HSE (the parent did inform the school the day the positive diagnosis was official, but there was NO guidance from the Dept. about what to do in this case, so the staff had to remain in place unaware that they were exposed, and unaware that they were potential carriers), that the staff had to go home/be tested/isolate. That's one specific example of absolute failure from the Department of Ed. & the HSE.

So the mantra that schools are safe, is very much built on flaky grounds, & that assessment was NOT carried out under the stress of this new strain which appears far more infectious. I'm not aware that ANY official new risk assessments have been carried out for this particular wave/strain actually.

Murple

downthemiddle wrote: »

The Department is conscious that closing schools has hugely adverse consequences
at individual, family and societal level. For children, it impacts on wellbeing, learning,
on social and emotional development.
School closure has significant impacts on children with special educational needs.
School closure also heightens student anxiety, particularly for the Leaving Certificate
cohort, in relation to state examinations.
It is important to note that NPHET remains of the view that schools are low risk
environments".

This part of the statement is a particular disgrace and only serves to heighten anxieties felt. These statements are all made as if they are facts.
It should read ‘closing schools can have adverse consequences...’ and ‘for children, it can impact...’ etc etc.
I can only comment for my own school, but the vast majority of the children came back at the end of August much the same as after any summer break. A number of teachers commented on how many seemed more confident and relaxed. Others had made improvements in terms of independence when doing their work.
I am so sick of the catastrophising of schools closing. We are in the middle of a national, if not global emergency. The way it’s worded it’s amazing children are let out of school at all.
In fact, I’m amazed that there hasn’t been a campaign to do away with all holidays and weekends as well as a complete ban on parents taking children out of school for any reason.
It seems the world will end in the next few weeks if all pupils aren’t sitting at a screen getting live schooling all day every day.
Funny at how there was never the same concern when children were taken out of school to go skiing or for a sub holiday or a bargain trip to Florida for some winter sunshine. And yet that likely affected the child more as their classmates were continuing on with school and interacting with each other each day.

khalessi

downthemiddle wrote: »

"There has been continuous engagement with education partners on this matter since
Monday,.

All the way since Monday wow!! They did say she rang them/zoomed them to tell them what was happening, not the same as consulting.

Patrick O Donovon this morning was covering up saying consulting would be too long a process when questioned today on Clare Byrne show.

She is caught rapid, ego trip solo run.

khalessi

antgal23 wrote: »

So, if schools are safe why close them?

For societal environmental factors necessary to restrict movement

or schools aren't safe

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

All the way since Monday wow!! They did say she rang them/zoomed them to tell them what was happening, not the same as consulting.

Patrick O Donovon this morning was covering up saying consulting would be too long a process when questioned today on Clare Byrne show.

She is caught rapid, ego trip solo run.

Leo also confirmed on the news at one yesterday that they hadn't consulted the "partners in education " as it would have caused delays. The clip of him saying this is still on the rte site.

khalessi

Inviere wrote: »

I've heard of several first hand examples of this exact thing from various different school staff. It very much appears to be an underhanded attempt to massage statistics. I've also heard directly that a student tested positive on a particular Wednesday, and the school was not officially informed until the following Tuesday by the HSE (the parent did inform the school the day the positive diagnosis was official, but there was NO guidance from the Dept. about what to do in this case, so the staff had to remain in place unaware that they were exposed, and unaware that they were potential carriers), that the staff had to go home/be tested/isolate. That's one specific example of absolute failure from the Department of Ed. & the HSE.

So the mantra that schools are safe, is very much built on flaky grounds, & that assessment was NOT carried out under the stress of this new strain which appears far more infectious. I'm not aware that ANY official new risk assessments have been carried out for this particular wave/strain actually.

There are dozens of teachers who have had this happen to them and put it up some anon on FB site. I have had 4 students with it and 3 I take and in no case was I considered a close contact because of my mask. Maddening they also said it was community catch despite 3 being in same class.. So no pods tested no isolation either but yes schools are safe and the 5th case they sent the class home and teacher but kept the SNA in depsite the fact they work closely with students in that class and others.

jayo76

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

My friend is a secondary school teacher with three primary school kids who was told this morning that she can't prerecord lessons and has to do live teaching all day without childcare. So many parents are in similar situations. So please don't worry about teachers' expectations. We don't have any. Just do whatever is possible.

No principal/Board of Management can enforce that all teachers regardless of childcare situation etc must live teach all day every day according to their full timetable. Ours was pushing this too but as a staff we very gently made clear to them that we would 100% make every effort to follow our timetables but that for some staff that might not always be possible and that we also had taken on board parental and student feedback that they would prefer a mix of live teaching and assigned work, that they found a full day of live online work exhausting. Parents had informed yearheads after previous lockdown that between live classes and homework students were spending crazy amounts of their days on devices.