The way forward for LC2021

km79 · 10-02-2021 9:48pm

History Queen wrote: »

I assume to prevent extra staff having to travel to school? Not sure how it'll work if someone who is meant to have LC is sick?

Exactly

History Queen · 10-02-2021 9:51pm

km79 wrote: »

Exactly

Strange that it isn't set out in the guidance. Speaking to two LC students I know in two different schools (not my students) they are delighted they're going back but annoyed an announcement about exams still hasn't been made. I was saying to them that it looksgood re going back but wait for official announcement.

Bobtheman · 10-02-2021 9:58pm

So how do people see this working out?

History Queen · 10-02-2021 10:05pm

ASTI onboard also for phased return anyway. Brilliant. Hopefully whatever issues need to be ironed out are sorted relatively quickly.

https://twitter.com/Jessjcasey/status/1359608811116445697?s=19

Treppen · 10-02-2021 10:07pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

So how do people see this working out?

Don't know if this Feb return is real or just more kiteflying.
As usual no other details forthcoming.

PoolDude · 10-02-2021 10:10pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

So how do people see this working out?

TUI may know public health advice will be to stay off longer so now can say they were prepared to go back - bargaining chip for something else or am I too cynical? It’s just that all indicators were they wouldn’t advise schools reopening that soon and in the LC instance you have the age group with the highest transmission rates (LC) going in to meet the age group with the highest infection rate (people in the 35 - 45 age group - last Saturday’s stats was 59% from that age group).

I’d be happy if they do go back if it’s safe to do so.

Edit - I see ASTI saying plans are inadequate beyond special classes and they will first monitor that in the “weeks ahead” but will negotiate with the department

km79 · 10-02-2021 10:15pm

PoolDude wrote: »

TUI may know public health advice will be to stay off longer so now can say they were prepared to go back - bargaining chip for something else or am I too cynical? It’s just that all indicators were they wouldn’t advise schools reopening that soon and in the LC instance you have the age group with the highest transmission rates (LC) going in to meet the age group with the highest infection rate (people in the 35 - 45 age group - last Saturday’s stats was 59% from that age group).

I’d be happy if they do go back if it’s safe to do so.

Edit - I see ASTI saying plans are inadequate beyond special classes and they will first monitor that in the “weeks ahead” but will negotiate with the department

Well the whole plan falls down on the whole no s and s thing for a start !

Bobtheman · 10-02-2021 10:19pm

It has to be flexible. Childcare is still an issue.
If you have primary kids and they are not open (primary schools) when sixth years are back...

km79 · 10-02-2021 10:26pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

It has to be flexible. Childcare is still an issue.
If you have primary kids and they are not open (primary schools) when sixth years are back...

How have other essential workers managed ?
This will hold no water with many tbh
We have oft argued ourselves against the use of schools as childcare ......

Bobtheman · 10-02-2021 10:40pm

km79 wrote: »

How have other essential workers managed ?
This will hold no water with many tbh
We have oft argued ourselves against the use of schools as childcare ......

Good point

Bobtheman · 10-02-2021 10:47pm

But read the vagueness of this
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/f64cc-resumption-of-the-pre-school-programme-postponed-and-childcare-services-to-remain-open-for-the-children-of-essential-workers-and-vulnerable-children-only-until-01-february/

km79 · 10-02-2021 10:48pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

Good point

The TUI guidance spells it out anyways
If you have a special class you teach it in person unless high risk
If you have time to go home before next online class you go home
If not you teach it remotely from school

Basically work around special class and do most from home

It will be built up week on week then with LC back the week after almost 100% imo

Bobtheman · 10-02-2021 11:28pm

I'm more talking about LC students as you would be talking larger numbers of teachers.

km79 · 10-02-2021 11:34pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

I'm more talking about LC students as you would be talking larger numbers of teachers.

I’d say that will be the week after at which point the phased return will be well underway . I would assume at primary level too

Also while this was being announced tonight
Prolonged period of lockdown ahead, Taoiseach tells party meeting
via The Irish Times
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/prolonged-period-of-lockdown-ahead-taoiseach-tells-party-meeting-1.4481548

Bobtheman · 11-02-2021 12:06am

Let's see the public health advice

km79 · 11-02-2021 12:17am

Bobtheman wrote: »

Let's see the public health advice

I think they are open to a phased return ?
Let’s see what tomorrow brings though !

am_zarathustra · 11-02-2021 12:44am

It'll be interesting to try and manage this. I'm dying to go back but I've 2 LC classes along with my other classes. I've an entire online learning system set up in my house. The internet in the school or the facilities won't really handle it and I don't drive so I'll be carrying stuff in and out. I really hope we block the class's. Would keep the quality for the other years where I'd like it. But then hopefully that won't be for too long anyway. It would be great to have it concrete before midterm so the planning could be done then to make sure it's safe and well thought through.

Great news in general &#55357;&#56842;

Rosita · 11-02-2021 1:44am

PoolDude wrote: »

TUI may know public health advice will be to stay off longer so now can say they were prepared to go back - bargaining chip for something else or am I too cynical?

Yeah, I think the fact that the TUI let this into the public domain is significant. All indicators have really been that there'd be nothing before the end of the current level 5 on March 5th. Doubt that has changed and would imagine the TUI know that. But it's amazing the traction it gets. Just look here at people saying it's great news as if it's Gospel. Just a PR stunt from one union.

My understanding has been that finalising the LC was the main work at hand in these talks right now. I would like that to be clear before having LCs sitting in front of me again. In fact going back with LCs alone will be a hindrance. Going back with LCs and the plans for the LC unclear will be doubly so.

Treppen · 11-02-2021 1:48am

Rosita wrote: »

Yeah, I think the fact that the TUI let this into the public domain is significant. All indicators have really been that there'd be nothing before the end of the current level 5 on March 5th. Doubt that has changed and would imagine the TUI know that. But it's amazing the traction it gets. Just look here at people saying it's great news as if it's Gospel. Just a PR stunt from one union.

My understanding has been that finalising the LC was the main work at hand in these talks right now. I would like that to be clear before having LCs sitting in front of me again. In fact going back with LCs alone will be a hindrance. Going back with LCs and the plans for the LC unclear will be doubly so.

Can we take it that JC is definitely going to be predicted grades in-house job. That could really clear the decks for LC to go ahead.

French Toast · 11-02-2021 1:57am

Treppen wrote: »

Can we take it that JC is definitely going to be predicted grades in-house job. That could really clear the decks for LC to go ahead.

I'm assuming that's the case.

JC is a complete afterthought this year.

Rosita · 11-02-2021 2:01am

Treppen wrote: »

Can we take it that JC is definitely going to be predicted grades in-house job. That could really clear the decks for LC to go ahead.

By the looks of things there's not a hope of the JC happening. An early decision on that would be no harm.

Treppen · 11-02-2021 2:12am

Rosita wrote: »

By the looks of things there's not a hope of the JC happening. An early decision on that would be no harm.

Maybe not, I'd never see my 3rd years again :pac:

They should release a secret document for teachers only, just telling us to play along that the JC is going ahead.

Smacruairi · 11-02-2021 2:31am

In fairness, I had possibly my worst online lesson with my 3rd years today. That panic when you realise they know less then they should, and they don't seem to realise it, nor are they inclined to put in more effort. I need a break from them ASAP before I end up killing them, but then you remember that between this year and last they really have huge gaps from remote learning.

I personally wouldn't mind a cancelled jc so I could teach to learn rather than do exam prep non stop now.

Random sample · 11-02-2021 8:22am

Treppen wrote: »

Maybe not, I'd never see my 3rd years again :pac:

They should release a secret document for teachers only, just telling us to play along that the JC is going ahead.

Like when we get an email to say when different years are finishing up for Christmas and not to tell the kids, and the kids come in and tell you next class? ‘But miss x said we’re finishing on the Monday’.

History Queen · 11-02-2021 8:50am

Rosita wrote: »

Yeah, I think the fact that the TUI let this into the public domain is significant. All indicators have really been that there'd be nothing before the end of the current level 5 on March 5th. Doubt that has changed and would imagine the TUI know that. But it's amazing the traction it gets. Just look here at people saying it's great news as if it's Gospel. Just a PR stunt from one union.

My understanding has been that finalising the LC was the main work at hand in these talks right now. I would like that to be clear before having LCs sitting in front of me again. In fact going back with LCs alone will be a hindrance. Going back with LCs and the plans for the LC unclear will be doubly so.

ASTI and Forsa also saying similar so not sure where you are getting your PR stunt from?

PoolDude · 11-02-2021 9:06am

Treppen wrote: »

Maybe not, I'd never see my 3rd years again :pac:

They should release a secret document for teachers only, just telling us to play along that the JC is going ahead.

Like ye did for the LC :-) :-)

PoolDude · 11-02-2021 9:11am

History Queen wrote: »

ASTI and Forsa also saying similar so not sure where you are getting your PR stunt from?

The reporting says they diverge on the point of when to bring back non special classes with ASTI not supportive until the plan is substantially rewritten. I think the public health guidance will be interesting and TUI are being union clever here. Let’s see where the ball bounces to next.

History Queen · 11-02-2021 9:20am

PoolDude wrote: »

The reporting says they diverge on the point of when to bring back non special classes with ASTI not supportive until the plan is substantially rewritten. I think the public health guidance will be interesting and TUI are being union clever here. Let’s see where the ball bounces to next.

Maybe I misinterpreted but I thought the ASTI reservations were in relation to full return. I'll have another read.

Edit: just read official ASTI statement (I had only read reports about it last night), definitely not as positive as the other two unions regarding the return of other cohorts. Hopefully whatever outstanding issues there are can be resolved, I think everyone needs/wants a return at this stage.

Rosita · 11-02-2021 9:28am

History Queen wrote: »

ASTI and Forsa also saying similar so not sure where you are getting your PR stunt from?

I'm getting my PR stunt from the fact that it was being reported last night that the TUI had said they were ready to return on 22nd February while no other union was mentioned in the report. I can form opinions only based on what is reported. Obviously if all the unions have agreed that we should go back (haven't seen the report yet but will shortly I'm sure) then going back on that day is inevitable.

Rosita · 11-02-2021 9:30am

Random sample wrote: »

Like when we get an email to say when different years are finishing up for Christmas and not to tell the kids, and the kids come in and tell you next class? ‘But miss x said we’re finishing on the Monday’.

Yeah, many is the tine I've had the heads up about a colleague leaving or something happening in the school (who had Covid in recent months for example) from the students. In fact sometimes only from the students.

Rosita · 11-02-2021 9:32am

[QUOTE=History Queen;116240223

I think everyone needs/wants a return at this stage.[/QUOTE]

I don't. I'd certainly like to see several issues cleared up before a return, and that includes decisions on exams and what exactly is happening when we get back. Hopefully that will be provided before the 22nd but I wouldn't bet on it.

History Queen · 11-02-2021 9:34am

Rosita wrote: »

I'm getting my PR stunt from the fact that it was being reported last night that the TUI had said they were ready to return on 22nd February while no other union was mentioned in the report. I can form opinions only based on what is reported. Obviously if all the unions have agreed that we should go back (haven't seen the report yet but will shortly I'm sure) then going back on that day is inevitable.

It is usual for unions to release press releases when they finish their executive meetings on issues such as this. It's why the ASTI for example had issued a press release saying they were not happy to cooperate with school reopening in January and the Government had rowed back on the issue before the TUI issued a statement (as TUI are involved in Further Ed and Youthreach sectors so were still in meetings regarding them). TUI then ended up releasing a statement that basically said 'we agree with ASTI, glad Government has seen sense'.

History Queen · 11-02-2021 9:38am

Rosita wrote: »

I don't. I'd certainly like to see several issues cleared up before a return, and that includes decisions on exams and what exactly is happening when we get back.

But you would like to return asap with issues addressed I assume? That's what I meant. I didn't mean feck it lets just open schools and hope for the best.

Rosita · 11-02-2021 9:46am

History Queen wrote: »

It is usual for unions to release press releases when they finish their executive meetings on issues such as this. It's why the ASTI for example had issued a press release saying they were not happy to cooperate with school reopening in January and the Government had rowed back on the issue before the TUI issued a statement (as TUI are involved in Further Ed and Youthreach sectors so were still in meetings regarding them). TUI then ended up releasing a statement that basically said 'we agree with ASTI, glad Government has seen sense'.

A press release saying a union is not happy to resume is quite a different matter because a union refusing to return has, in effect, a veto. It was an apparent unilateral public announcement that they were happy to go back, which I (incorrectly it seems) had assumed did not reflect the situation across all unions.

ethical · 11-02-2021 9:51am

Anyone who think things will be any different when we return is fooling themselves.The TUI are going solo again to get popular opinion on their side.They will probably be taking industrial action regarding this return sometime in July! At least the ASTI are awaiting Normas circular,which was due last week,but now its due this week but not really,it will be out now in the middle of Mid Term or at least there will be "noise" made about it.....and there we go another Break ruined.How many of these feckers that are making the decisions actually wearing the jersey and working on the frontline,damn all I reckon! So let them cop the fcuk on and do the corect thing as and when the Medical experts give them the all clear and tell the truth to all.

Has anyone of these so called representatives mentioned MENTAL HEALTH of members in any of their talks?

Rosita · 11-02-2021 9:55am

History Queen wrote: »

But you would like to return asap with issues addressed I assume?

Of course. Goes without saying. Even leaving aside issues around Covid directly, it'd be nice to have a clear understanding of the situation with orals/practicals, what the assessment arrangements will be, and most immediately if we might have mocks happening in the school (the last one a local decision obviously but one which will be impacted by the broader decisions). I really don't want to be back with my Sixth Year group not knowing what's happening as a few have already switched off somewhat.

History Queen · 11-02-2021 9:59am

Rosita wrote: »

Of course. Goes without saying. Even leaving aside issues around Covid directly, it'd be nice to have a clear understanding of the situation with orals/practicals, what the assessment arrangements will be, and most immediately if we might have mocks happening in the school (the last one a local decision obviously but one which will be impacted by the broader decisions). I really don't want to be back with my Sixth Year group not knowing what's happening as a few have already switched off somewhat.

You're right, I think we (teachers) are all in the same boat in that regard. I have two family members sitting the Leaving this year and even for them I just wish there was more certainty. You'd be sick of the whole covid mess at this stage.

Rosita · 11-02-2021 10:19am

History Queen wrote: »

You'd be sick of the whole covid mess at this stage.

And......whisper it........we haven't even got to the effect on the 2022 LC yet.

PoolDude · 11-02-2021 10:30am

MM on news talk before 9am said:

A decision on LC format will be shared next week

Reasonable to assume LC classes could go back week of the 22nd based on public health guidance with phased return thereafter and welcomed TUI position

Level 5 till Easter

....then at 9am news ASTI head said not till early March

History Queen · 11-02-2021 10:46am

PoolDude wrote: »

MM on news talk before 9am said:

A decision on LC format will be shared next week

Reasonable to assume LC classes could go back week of the 22nd based on public health guidance with phased return thereafter and welcomed TUI position

Level 5 till Easter

....then at 9am news ASTI head said not till early March

I wish the unions would work together, they really need to be a united front.

Bobtheman · 11-02-2021 11:07am

Both unions dysfunctional in their own way.
Both won't fight for anything. The Asti does the grand Old Duke of York thing but that's it.
I think the whole situation is still in flux. Could even be changed by tomorrow.
The Asti are in a **** off humour so I would not predict a quick roll over. This might contradict what I said above but my point above concerns general industrial action
This action falls under health and safety.
We are back to the contradicton of moving a million students while everybody else is in lockdown?!!

micks_address · 11-02-2021 11:08am

Bobtheman wrote: »

Both unions dysfunctional in their own way.
Both won't fight for anything. The Asti does the grand Old Duke of York thing but that's it.
I think the whole situation is still in flux. Could even be changed by tomorrow.
The Asti are in a **** off humour so I would not predict a quick roll over. This might contradict what I said above but my point above concerns general industrial action
This action falls under health and safety.
We are back to the contradicton of moving a million students while everybody else is in lockdown?!!

i thought it was like 60k moving people if they brought back special needs in primary and leaving cert?

Bobtheman · 11-02-2021 11:15am

Yes but the plan is a phased return so by the end of March they will have everyone back.
Though given it took 4 weeks plus to negotiate special needs who knows.

shesty · 11-02-2021 12:16pm

ethical wrote: »

So let them cop the fcuk on and do the corect thing as and when the Medical experts give them the all clear and tell the truth to all.

There is not a snowball's chance in hell of this happening any time soon, and that's not just in relation to schools.

Look at this morning's headlines. Leo telling his party Level5 til sometime in April, FF taking it as some time at the end of May.

It will be L5 until as and when Tony Holohan decides it might be safe to open a few shops and nothing else. Never mind that we are facing into the exact same mistakes we made last year - heading into longer days, nicer weather, numbers falling - but we are going to stay locked up. If we wait for the "medical all-clear", at a push (and a very optimistic one) we MIGHT get there in September (for the record by the way, I also think there is a snowball's chance in hell of that happening) - right in time for the incoming Winter again, and so the merry-go-round starts all over again. If people actually think about it, the next few weeks are the best time to reopen. There is an element of seasonality to this thing, it appears to fall off during the summer months - be that due to people being outdoors or what, I do not know - so we should USE those months.

The fact is the end goal is changing constantly, do we want cases at a certain low, do we want a certain percentage vaccinated, do we want ICU numbers at a particular level - who the f**k knows???The whole thing has lost all credibility at this point, and the end game seems to be stay locked up tight til we have vaccinated you all (on our programme that we cannot verify, by the way), and then we all cross our fingers that boosters aren't needed and vaccinations are enough to deal with any incoming mutations.

There will be no magical medical all-clear moment. All there will be is people deciding/realising that life needs to go on, and starting to get on with it. Waiting for a lightbulb moment is going to be a long wait.

I apologise for the rant, but today I have had enough.

Mardy Bum · 11-02-2021 12:22pm

The TUI and INTO executives are subsections of the DES. Similar to the SEC.

Treppen · 11-02-2021 12:35pm

History Queen wrote: »

I wish the unions would work together, they really need to be a united front.

I wish people would stop with press releases when they have gotten no consensus from the other stakeholders.

Ethical called it perfectly above, it's going to drag in to next week l, like car on 2 wheels and the driver doesnt see the sparks flying, just because unions have to say "hold on, we didn't agree to any such thing" after the latest pronouncement from glory hunters and game players in politics who are trying to manipulate the narrative.

Get a consensus, but before that , agree to announce the outcome together. Not on morning interviews or Friday Night ramblings about sfa.

Mardy Bum · 11-02-2021 1:19pm

The nasty opinion pieces filled with veiled jibes and uncredited comments from politicians are appearing again. Great to see the propagandists are getting work still.

Bobtheman · 11-02-2021 1:22pm

I think the credibility of the government is low. The Asti is still in f off mode.
Thus we will see LC students definitely back in March beyond that you would be foolish to predict.
LC back sometime in March beyond that who knows.

French Toast · 11-02-2021 1:45pm

It was the 19th of March last year that the oral exams were cancelled. It'll definitely be interesting to see what way they'll be approached this year.

Rosita · 11-02-2021 2:29pm

French Toast wrote: »

It was the 19th of March last year that the oral exams were cancelled. It'll definitely be interesting to see what way they'll be approached this year.

And at that stage all examiners had been appointed, all conferences held and the whole system was ready to go. Herculean task ahead if they are to proceed as normal.

Something tells me the 'clarity' on the LC that the Taoiseach promises will be just clear chaos.

The way forward for LC2021

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