The way forward for LC2021

RealJohn

TheValeyard wrote: »

September 3rd for Results. Personally I think this is far too long, but these are difficult times.


https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2021/0602/1225646-leaving-cert-exams/

Does it matter to teachers when the results come out? I certainly don’t care. Why would I?

Random sample

RealJohn wrote: »

Does it matter to teachers when the results come out? I certainly don’t care. Why would I?

For viewing papers with students. Also, in 2019 the appeals happened in august, much earlier than usual, so anyone involved in the would be interested in when they might happen.

RealJohn

Random sample wrote: »

For viewing papers with students. Also, in 2019 the appeals happened in august, much earlier than usual, so anyone involved in the would be interested in when they might happen.

Pretty limited number of appeal examiners (especially this year) and again, if someone was to go in and view papers for students, why would it being later than usual make a difference? For some people, it’d be better, because it’d save them a trip.
Very small thing for teachers to complain about. Students being unhappy about it, I can understand.

Random sample

RealJohn wrote: »

Pretty limited number of appeal examiners (especially this year) and again, if someone was to go in and view papers for students, why would it being later than usual make a difference? For some people, it’d be better, because it’d save them a trip.
Very small thing for teachers to complain about. Students being unhappy about it, I can understand.

I thought you were asking why the poster was giving us that information, not what would we be annoyed by it, crossed wires!

am_zarathustra

RealJohn wrote: »

Does it matter to teachers when the results come out? I certainly don’t care. Why would I?

In some schools a huge amount of support would be given to students in the aftermath of the exams, where help or advice from home would be lacking. It's much easier to do this in a empty school with when people have more time. The start of the year in already a very busy time.

Not a major issue but I'd prefer them earlier

TheValeyard

RealJohn wrote: »

Does it matter to teachers when the results come out? I certainly don’t care. Why would I?

I'd care for my students. This hanging over them the entire summer.

RealJohn

They need to grow up. A short wait isn’t going to kill them.
I understand why they’d be bothered by it. They don’t need the adults pandering to them. They get too much of that as it is.

am_zarathustra

We have kids who will become homeless when they turn 18, who have family situations that mean they can't access grant application without additional supports, and a whole lot in between. Were you missing the day they taught empathy in school? It's not the short wait. It's the shorter time and less access to staff that can support them in this transition. The resilience some of these kids will have shown in getting this far is already impressive

No one here said it was a massive deal, just that it was far from ideal and it would be easier if the traditional dates were adhered to.

deiseindublin

It's a huge deal for any student that has to find and pay for accommodation after the CAO offers. The stress of that hanging over you, instead of having a few weeks to sort it out. It's a really big deal imo.

It's the motivation for it that bothers me. If both systems are totally seperate, and exam data won't inform the AG algorithm, I'm at a loss as to why it'll take so much extra time. Results are due tomorrow 4/6. You'd wonder are 3 full months really needed?

Leftwaffe

Norma said on Twitter the results are only ‘expected’ to be announced on that date. She was delighted about it too for some reason.

Random sample

Also for kids who have applied abroad to maximise their chances of getting the course they want. They will have to have decided on those courses before the results come out. Again, not a huge deal for most, but would be hard for anyone who has accepted, paid for and started a course abroad to get offered the same course in Ireland a week later.

noplacehere

But….. why?

The exams are being sat as normal (ish). In smaller numbers. Corrections should be done in the normal timeframe and probably sooner given the reduced numbers.

The accredited grades are done in the next week and will be good to go as soon as corrections finish

Wtf are they going to be doing with the data that will take that long?

RealJohn

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Were you missing the day they taught empathy in school?

I could respond to this in kind, but I think I’ll just highlight it instead.
This is not the leaving cert forum. This is the teaching and lecturing forum. It’s for adults.

am_zarathustra

You clearly said it didn't effect you so you didn't care. Some students have great home supports. Some are barely surviving. This hits them. It's not something that will effect me personally but it will make the process more difficult for students from disadvantaged backgrounds. There are many students who would love some over parenting or any at all. I feel for these students and many schools in disadvantaged areas put supports in place, staffed by the teachers on a voluntary basis, which will be much harder to do when the school is back I'm full swing.

Fair point regarding the students going abroad. Usually a much earlier start in other countries, makes accomodation, flights, acceptance arc very tight.

Agree with above too. Marking conferences ect are all at roughly the normal time, sprioc la looks the same as normal, if the two systems are separate and a quick check needs to be done to pick the highest grade how will that take a month

It will affect a minority really but I can't see why and extra month is needed if what they are telling us re standardizing is true.

History Queen

noplacehere wrote: »

But….. why?

The exams are being sat as normal (ish). In smaller numbers. Corrections should be done in the normal timeframe and probably sooner given the reduced numbers.

The accredited grades are done in the next week and will be good to go as soon as corrections finish

Wtf are they going to be doing with the data that will take that long?

Correcting conferences are later than usual. English which is usually early isn't starting conference until 29th June with Spríoc lá not til July 26th. That must mean some subjects not finishing correcting until first week of August. I asked why conference was later and the lady I spoke to in the SEC said reason being organising scripts etc while maintaining social distancing.

RealJohn

My sprioc lá is in early August. That’s a week later than usual, maybe more (I can’t remember exactly, but my birthday is in late July and my sprioc lá is usually around the same time). The latest on the list is August 13th. It’s not hard to work out why the results are a bit later this year. There’s a global pandemic. It’s been on the news.

noplacehere

History Queen wrote: »

Correcting conferences are later than usual. English which is usually early isn't starting conference until 29th June with Spríoc lá not til July 26th. That must mean some subjects not finishing correcting until first week of August. I asked why conference was later and the lady I spoke to in the SEC said reason being organising scripts etc while maintaining social distancing.

Ah ok, that would definitely explain some of it. Usually the conferences are almost immediately

rainbowtrout

RealJohn wrote: »

I could respond to this in kind, but I think I’ll just highlight it instead.
This is not the leaving cert forum. This is the teaching and lecturing forum. It’s for adults.

Not showing empathy is an unusual hill to die on.... but whatever.

RealJohn

It’s called acting like an adult. There’s a difference between not showing empathy and not having empathy.
The students need the teachers to act like adults, not reinforce their persecution complexes.
Again, this is a forum for teachers, not students. Whinging about the date the results are out is not showing empathy for students. It’s virtue signalling. If you want to show empathy for your students, do it in person, not on an internet forum.

jimmytwotimes 2013

RealJohn wrote: »

Again, this is a forum for teachers, not students. Whinging about the date the results are out is not showing empathy for students. It’s virtue signalling. If you want to show empathy for your students, do it in person, not on an internet forum.

You a mod?

spurious

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

You a mod?

A mod already asked for this to stay on topic.

Sly and not so sly digs at posters and wandering way off topic is not appreciated. I don't want to start ploughing through stuff and deleting posts, but I will if they keep being dragged up.

km79

Nuig have released their provisional start dates for next autumn
First years orientation week Tuesday 31st August to Friday September 3rd
Do Norma and Simon Harris even talk to each other !

TheValeyard

km79 wrote: »

Nuig have released their provisional start dates for next autumn
First years orientation week Tuesday 31st August to Friday September 3rd
Do Norma and Simon Harris even talk to each other !

Ah ya serious. Literally left hand and right hand not knowing what each other are doing.

km79

TheValeyard wrote: »

Ah ya serious. Literally left hand and right hand not knowing what each other are doing.

100%
My son is in NUIG and sent it to me earlier

RealJohn

It’s almost as if the SEC and the universities are independent of each other.
Do away with the CAO. It would solve a lot of issues.

km79

RealJohn wrote: »

It’s almost as if the SEC and the universities are independent of each other.
Do away with the CAO. It would solve a lot of issues.

They are
But you would imagine that the Norma and the Minister for Absolutely Everything Except Higher Education would have communicated with each other and the universities

sue97

RE: LC Results 3rd Sept

DD has a place abroad and is repeating the LC. I care that the date is 3rd Sept so CAO 7th. She is supposed to start abroad on 14th September. I have not figured out what the options are yet for her.

On another note teachers whose children are doing LC won't be able to be home when they receive their results and it's a very traumatic time for kids (not that any of us are under the illusion that NF cares about kids).

I made a point of not going to a wedding when DD1 got her results and would like to be home for DD2 getting hers

rainbowtrout

RealJohn wrote: »

It’s called acting like an adult. There’s a difference between not showing empathy and not having empathy.
The students need the teachers to act like adults, not reinforce their persecution complexes.
Again, this is a forum for teachers, not students. Whinging about the date the results are out is not showing empathy for students. It’s virtue signalling. If you want to show empathy for your students, do it in person, not on an internet forum.

You might remember the Rebecca Carter case in 2018. Lots of faffing about with appeals for 6 weeks meant that she was going to lose a place in veterinary because UCD don’t accept late entries after October 1st. Appeals were pulled back to August where they could be remarked when teachers were still on holidays and could mark them in a couple of days while they weren’t at school.

Now that the results are going to be 2.5 weeks later so too will appeals and we are back in the same situation as 3 years ago. Teachers have returned to school so have limited time for appeals work. .......

RealJohn

So what?
The purpose of the leaving cert is not to serve as a university entrance exam. UCD could have made an exception then and the universities could make exceptions now. It doesn’t affect teachers in any meaningful way.

History Queen

RealJohn wrote: »

So what?
The purpose of the leaving cert is not to serve as a university entrance exam. UCD could have made an exception then and the universities could make exceptions now. It doesn’t affect teachers in any meaningful way.

I kind of understand where you're coming from with it not affecting teachers in a meaningfyl way but I have to say I'm genuinely annoyed about it on behalf of my students. There are some who are really worried now about what this means for them. I'm thinking in particular of those applying abroad but hoping for an Irish college place.

I can understand some delay due to preparing scripts for online marking and social distancing constraints but surely it could be more efficient? The English exams take place on the 9th and 10th June but correcting won't begin until 3 weeks later. Could they SEC hire more staff to help at their end to speed things up?

Treppen

km79 wrote: »

Nuig have released their provisional start dates for next autumn
First years orientation week Tuesday 31st August to Friday September 3rd
Do Norma and Simon Harris even talk to each other !

Simon Harris said today on Pat kenny colleges have agreed to hold off start for 1st years, also he said it was good as it would mean phasing in of cohorts rather than everyone at once.

deiseindublin

sue97 wrote: »

On another note teachers whose children are doing LC won't be able to be home when they receive their results and it's a very traumatic time for kids (not that any of us are under the illusion that NF cares about kids).

That hadn't dawned on me yet. I think they're online from 6am, yeah? At least we'll have an idea before we hit off to work.

km79

Treppen wrote: »

Simon Harris said today on Pat kenny colleges have agreed to hold off start for 1st years, also he said it was good as it would mean phasing in of cohorts rather than everyone at once.

“Start Of teaching all years - Monday 6th September “
He probably needs to call the President of NUIG
It was literally sent out to all students today

Treppen

km79 wrote: »

“Start Of teaching all years - Monday 6th September “
He probably needs to call the President of NUIG
It was literally sent out to all students today

Maybe he meant returning to campus!

I really doubt this delay is due to social distancing, conferences can be done on zoom (even if it meant everyone in one building in different rooms on closed network).
When I collected bag o' scripts in the old days we just pulled up in car and it was thrown in boot.

I still suspect they will be dicking around accredited grades moderation and adjustment after the written exams come in...

...But of course they won't be using accredited grades and written exam grades together, they'll be kept totally separate... And the Pope is actually Jewish.

Does anyone know what criteria the SEC are going to apply to moderate the accredited grades yet?

Maybe it's still a bit early. Last year Norma was all over the media like an STD in Ibiza. I think there's a reason why she's gone to ground.

History Queen

Treppen wrote: »

Maybe he meant returning to campus!

I really doubt this delay is due to social distancing, conferences can be done on zoom (even if it meant everyone in one building in different rooms on closed network).
When I collected bag o' scripts in the old days we just pulled up in car and it was thrown in boot.

I still suspect they will be dicking around accredited grades moderation and adjustment after the written exams come in...

...But of course they won't be using accredited grades and written exam grades together, they'll be kept totally separate... And the Pope is actually Jewish.

Does anyone know what criteria the SEC are going to apply to moderate the accredited grades yet?

Maybe it's still a bit early. Last year Norma was all over the media like an STD in Ibiza. I think there's a reason why she's gone to ground.

The conferences are online this year. I'm guessing that the social distancing thing was the normal processing of scripts and maybe the scanning of scripts for online marking? Again, surely hiring more people would speed this up, but I'm not entirely familiar with the process, so I could be wrong.

rainbowtrout

Treppen wrote: »

Last year Norma was all over the media like an STD in Ibiza.

RealJohn

Treppen wrote: »

I really doubt this delay is due to social distancing, conferences can be done on zoom (even if it meant everyone in one building in different rooms on closed network).
When I collected bag o' scripts in the old days we just pulled up in car and it was thrown in boot.

Surely most of the marking will be done online this year though, both because it saves them posting stuff and it saves potential issues with posting bags to examiners. Then, if they have to scan every paper for every student (more or less), they’ll need people working in the scanning facilities and I imagine the existing facilities weren’t designed with social distancing in mind, so it’s quite plausible that there’ll be a delay in organising that, and further days when some of the scans inevitably don’t come out well and have to be rescanned.
I think it’s at least likely to cause some delay.

am_zarathustra

Sciences and maths and some MFL were already online and it improved we finished a good bit earlier than normal the in 2019. Without posting etc it a a quicker process. Once the results are in they could be tabulated and cross checked in a day, it's a fairly simple algorithm, a JC could write it. The SEC set will be standardized and they have the accredited already so they can be standardized over the next two months. If all they are doing is picking the higher grade they don't need a month, but that's assuming that what they've told us is true.

Cornamaddy is massive, it's a giant warehouse and half of it is still empty due to over zealous decentralisation plans. And they JC is not running so there are less than half the possible papers, and with accredited half it again.

The SEC are generally very efficient, I've never had a problem with them, I completely understand the slightly later sprioc la's in some subjects but the massive gap between results in and getting them though a few lines of code and printed seems excessive.

Leftwaffe

Accredited grades is drawing out now. I’ve mine done ages ago but waiting on one student to be added for Japanese to the system from their end. Pain in the arse.

trihead

Leaving Certificate students will receive offers of college places on 7 September this year, four days after they receive their exam results.

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2021/0604/1226056-cao-date/