When will it all end?

gozunda

bluelamp wrote: »

Ireland has had the largest reduction in air travel of any European country, and all arriving passengers require a negative PCR test now. Our cases were far lower at times when passenger numbers were much higher. We have never had less arriving passengers than we do now - that's a fact.

I find it extremely hard to believe that three Brazilian cases have had any significant effect on our case numbers.

Funny how we were told at the very start that we wouldn't be referring to it any longer as the "Chinese coronavirus" as it was culturally insensitive and places blame on a population.

Yet here here we are with the government referring to the English variant, South african variant, Brazilian variant.

I think the announcement of the Brazilian variant was the usual Friday evening misery to scare people into compliance.

It has been blame blame blame from the get go by the government, and the pretty much insignificant number of international travellers is now the latest. If travel is the issue why are we doing so much worse than countries that haven't restricted travel nearly as much?

The public are copping on to this tactic finally. The policy of lockdowns and a blame culture isn't working.

We can blame anything we want - variants, house parties, travel, northern Irish builders, the UK, teenagers etc etc - but the fact is - it's gotten us nowhere a year later.

What do you suggest is done?

46 Long

gozunda wrote: »

What do you suggest is done?

The (seemingly) hardest thing of all - nothing. As counterintuitive as it may sound we need to start rolling back restrictions to a baseline L2/L3 level before what is left of people's resolve and mental health is completely gone.

We have collectively gone off the deep end in our thirst for ever more heavy-handed restrictions and there is a limit to the number of times people will delude themselves that this lockdown might just work if only we locked down harder and longer.

Lockdowns and restrictions haven't failed because we haven't locked down hard enough - they're failing because we continue in our pig-headed stupidity to swing an axe at a problem best approached with skilled hands and a scalpel.

Charles Babbage

46 Long wrote: »

The (seemingly) hardest thing of all - nothing. As counterintuitive as it may sound we need to start rolling back restrictions to a baseline L2/L3 level before what is left of people's resolve and mental health is completely gone.

We have collectively gone off the deep end in our thirst for ever more heavy-handed restrictions and there is a limit to the number of times people will delude themselves that this lockdown might just work if only we locked down harder and longer.

Lockdowns and restrictions haven't failed because we haven't locked down hard enough - they're failing because we continue in our pig-headed stupidity to swing an axe at a problem best approached with skilled hands and a scalpel.

Yes, but a scalpel approach is only really possible if there are fewer cases. We need fast testing and follow up investigation. Our failure was not doing that last summer when we had the numbers down.

drunkmonkey

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Yes, but a scalpel approach is only really possible if there are fewer cases. We need fast testing and follow up investigation. Our failure was not doing that last summer when we had the numbers down.

We need to treat symptoms to prevent hospitalisations until that happens we're at nothing. You can't even see a doctor these days, if sick your told isolate, that is a complete cop out by GP's.

beauf

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We need to treat symptoms to prevent hospitalisations until that happens we're at nothing. You can't even see a doctor these days, if sick your told isolate, that is a complete cop out by GP's.

We've brought family to GPs and to hospital during the lockdowns where needed and got treatment as appropriate.

beauf

46 Long wrote: »

The (seemingly) hardest thing of all - nothing. As counterintuitive as it may sound we need to start rolling back restrictions ....

Worked well the last time...not.

GazzaL

josip wrote: »

A lot of people are in favour of restrictions because they are in a high risk group.
I suspect that after they have been vaccinated, no more will be heard from them.
Those that are in favour of restrictions for other reasons, well there's not really much point engaging with them, if they still want restrictions after the at-risk groups have been vaccinated.

There's plenty of high risk people that aren't in favour of restrictions. I know a lot of high risk people that are continuing to do non-essential work and/or break the 5km limit to socialise with people.

GazzaL

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

The vaccine programme needs to be the absolute focus and whatever it needs to work at maximum speed both in Ireland and at the EU side of that supply chain needs to be given to it.

Hopefully that is happening, but we need to think of this as an investment in time. The more we put into the vaccine programme the more economic and social benefits we get back.

It’s not a zero sum budget allocation. It’s an investment that pays huge dividends in opening up society sooner.

Realistically, there is no non-technical way out of this mess.

The virus is genuinely too problematic, transmissible and dangerous to have any notion of living with it.

We aren’t realistically able to entirely seal the borders, but we should be doing a lot more to close them fully to any high risk places. That cannot be messed around with and rules can’t be bent by any vested interest. The costs of screwing that up aren’t small & will outweigh any notion of short term gain.

I think we need to get a bit real and stop this notion of “living with covid”. It’s absolute b/s and we need to be in a technical elimination strategy which is primarily about vaccines, but also treatments and pragmatic border controls.

Think of it as every week we shorten this by is an extra week of economic activity won back and that’s even without counting the very significant social gains too.

A "technical elimination strategy" is a piece of fantasy. You can still contract COVID after being vaccinated. If we vaccinate 100% of the population, COVID will still circulate in Ireland. COVID is here to stay. We have to live with COVID along with every other illness out there.

If you could focus your technical elimination strategy on cancer research which kills at least 3 times as many people in Ireland compared to COVID, that would be a more productive use of your time and wouldn't impinge on anyone's personal freedoms.

agoodpunt

The positive news in the UK everyone vacced by end of july fans back in football stadiums easter opening up
While here we hope to maintain one of the worlds stricted lockdowns on the back of possible new straines
I am leaving ireland in march wont be back, after this country opens 2022 those who work will taxed into poverty

El_Duderino 09

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I don't think it's wrong to ask what level of the population needs to be vaccinated until things are opened up to a normal/near normal degree. A bit of transparency and maybe actually giving the public a target number might improve the mood and mental health of people?

You say that but they don’t know the answer to the question. So they could staff-off a few numbers, like 60% immunity in the community, which they have no intention to stick to, just to make you feel better. Then just change it later. But I think that’s not likely to make you happier.

They could also spaff-off a very high number, just to get people to shut up. For example they could say we need 90% immunity in the population before we go back to normal. Since we’re unlikely to ever reach 90% immunity.

Those are numbers. Would they make you happier?

ShyMets

agoodpunt wrote: »

The positive news in the UK everyone vacced by end of july fans back in football stadiums easter opening up
While here we hope to maintain one of the worlds stricted lockdowns on the back of possible new straines
I am leaving ireland in march wont be back, after this country opens 2022 those who work will taxed into poverty

Bye bye

drunkmonkey

beauf wrote: »

We've brought family to GPs and to hospital during the lockdowns where needed and got treatment as appropriate.

What treatments were they prescribed for Covid before ending up in hospital?

robbiezero

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Of course I can believe this. RTÉ ran a news item which implied that it was fine to go off hiking whenever it suited you. This type of hypocrisy sets a very bad example and health care workers are exactly the people that will suffer if everyone acts in a selfish manner. Health workers excusing themselves is not different than TDs doing so, or Gardaí cancelling their own speeding tickets.

Most people making a good effort, but this lockdown is being kept going by people acting the maggot.



And of course most on this thread, and those giving out about this investigation do not give a damn about health workers as they oppose any effort to keep Covid numbers down.

How will health care workers suffer from people hiking?

robbiezero

franciscanpunk wrote: »

A lot of people saying the mood has changed and that people wont accept this anymore, i wish the second part was true but its not. Irish people have shown not only a massive desire to take this situation without question but also to try knock down anyone who dares question the almighy restrictions.

Personally I'll stick with the restrictions in general until the 5th of March(obv i still meet people outside for walks and stuff not doing that is just suffering to tell everyone what a saint you are to stick to the rules), after the expected bad news at next review(MM might do a midnight video on his old bebo account this time to slyly slip us the details), I'd imagine people I know will have fully given up at this stage and we'll people.over indoors for a few beers maybe a BBQ is weather is ok, then probably have people stay over for a night or 2. I'd love to say if the speed of reducing restrictions is too slow ill protest but i prob wont bother if i am honest, I'm still getting paid and trying to save some money so just ignoring govt n media seems is easier for now the forms of socialisation are cheaper

I didnt see my parents for 4 or 5 months in 2020, what a pointless sacrifice that was i cringe at the thought of the whole it will be worth it rubbish at the time, meet them outside for a walk now most weekends, don't go into the house yet n will hold until they are vaccinated. They want me to come in but ill leave it a while longer. Obv can't do that forever though like do people expect us to never set foot in our families homes again!

Sensible stuff and if those in charge had a modicum of cop on, they would be buildiing this sort of stuff into the restrictions from March.

Sadly they don't.

Samsonsmasher

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Of course I can believe this. RTÉ ran a news item which implied that it was fine to go off hiking whenever it suited you. This type of hypocrisy sets a very bad example and health care workers are exactly the people that will suffer if everyone acts in a selfish manner. Health workers excusing themselves is not different than TDs doing so, or Gardaí cancelling their own speeding tickets.

Most people making a good effort, but this lockdown is being kept going by people acting the maggot.



And of course most on this thread, and those giving out about this investigation do not give a damn about health workers as they oppose any effort to keep Covid numbers down.

Wait? You actually support the Garda investigation???

Jesus wept..

ThunbergsAreGo

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You say that but they don’t know the answer to the question. So they could staff-off a few numbers, like 60% immunity in the community, which they have no intention to stick to, just to make you feel better. Then just change it later. But I think that’s not likely to make you happier.

They could also spaff-off a very high number, just to get people to shut up. For example they could say we need 90% immunity in the population before we go back to normal. Since we’re unlikely to ever reach 90% immunity.

Those are numbers. Would they make you happier?

Yes

ThunbergsAreGo

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Yes, but a scalpel approach is only really possible if there are fewer cases. We need fast testing and follow up investigation. Our failure was not doing that last summer when we had the numbers down.

Do they really have no idea where cases are coming from or trends/areas more likely to see cases?

A year on thats shambolic

the kelt

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I don't think it's wrong to ask what level of the population needs to be vaccinated until things are opened up to a normal/near normal degree. A bit of transparency and maybe actually giving the public a target number might improve the mood and mental health of people?

Israel is opening up things on the back of 50% vaccinated but shhh, don’t be asking for dates, targets or transparency or anything of the sort and here you can’t be giving the population a ray of hope these days, something to look forward to, a light at the end of the tunnel.

Sure according to posters on here who wants that?

the kelt

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Of course I can believe this. RTÉ ran a news item which implied that it was fine to go off hiking whenever it suited you. This type of hypocrisy sets a very bad example and health care workers are exactly the people that will suffer if everyone acts in a selfish manner. Health workers excusing themselves is not different than TDs doing so, or Gardaí cancelling their own speeding tickets.

Most people making a good effort, but this lockdown is being kept going by people acting the maggot.



And of course most on this thread, and those giving out about this investigation do not give a damn about health workers as they oppose any effort to keep Covid numbers down.

Wait...

You and your thanker think it’s a good thing that this is being investigated.

The country might get beyond this virus but my god what have we become??

mcsean2163

Strumms wrote: »

I’m no fan of either... but Labour don’t have the talent, SF certainly don’t have the talent and are still an untrustworthy terrorist mouthpiece who play up with consistency to their narrow minded support base...have defended and facilitated both criminals and terrorists to the hilt and without hesitation and will continue to actively do so, not just terrorists but criminals and wider criminality too.... prioritized the needs and wants of ‘their’ few ahead of the needs and greater wants of society and the good of the nation... haven’t changed and not going to change now, their legacy is clear.... you’d need your brain drained if you thought they were, Sinn Fein... Jesus haha... the lot of them couldn’t come up with an answer in a pub quiz let alone the answers to the situation we are in now.

FF / FG whilst not a perfect record as regards their handling of covid are far more trustworthy than those absolutely dreadful shinners...

I gave SF number 3 last election. First time ever that I put them down. I spoke for a while with a representative and he was civil and decent AND listened AND answered m. In contrast the green guy was obnoxious and I've voted green before. FF guy was nice too in local elections, I don't think I'd ever vote FF in general.

I really think SF have turned a corner and I'm not the only one. The current triumvirate just cannot seem to tackle housing and child disability care

El_Duderino 09

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Yes

Just any old number that they don’t even intend to stick to would make you happier?

Why?

Ginger n Lemon

gozunda wrote: »

Seriously? From day 1 you've been against any restrictions and generally against any public health advice issued.

So is it any surprise you haven't changed your opinion and despite 4000 deaths and over 200000 cases - you're still pushing the same rubbish even with Ireland winning the accolade of having the highest rate of covid infection in the world in January. For which we're still paying the penalty...

1st part in bold - thank you. that is correct. I have genuinely been against majority of restrictions trying to control a virus that is clearly uncontrollable even in hospitals where every precaution is taken. Its called common sense. But I suppose its hard to have any when you are bombarded with "stay at home save lives" "clap for our heroes" rubbish. But I did.

2nd part in bold - you forgot to mention the part where less people in 2020 died than in 2019 in Ireland and many other countries. I Am really not sure why, in the light of this, you are talking about cases and covid deaths? What has that got to do with anything? Do you want to tell me road deaths also while at it? Irrelevant nonsense.

PS with so many cases and deaths with positive PCR tests you've mentioned one would think that lockdown really doesnt do much.. you are supporting my point. Thank you again.

beauf

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What treatments were they prescribed for Covid before ending up in hospital?

I didn't say they had Covid.

Ginger n Lemon

To keep the spirits up do watch below for 10 - 20 mins. There are very beautiful things in this world, things you need to see, at least once.

PS bloody restaurants with outdoor seating... :pac:

How does looking at a video of Venice help keep spirits up???

Ginger n Lemon

bubblypop wrote: »

How does looking at a video of Venice help keep spirits up???

You have something to look forward to. Other than walks within 5 km and cutting your own hair for next few months (years?).

Assuming M Martin is held unaccountable ofcourse.

beauf

GazzaL wrote: »

A "technical elimination strategy" is a piece of fantasy. You can still contract COVID after being vaccinated. If we vaccinate 100% of the population, COVID will still circulate in Ireland. COVID is here to stay. We have to live with COVID along with every other illness out there.

If you could focus your technical elimination strategy on cancer research which kills at least 3 times as many people in Ireland compared to COVID, that would be a more productive use of your time and wouldn't impinge on anyone's personal freedoms.

This isn't about deaths. It's about not overloading the system with sick people. The majority of those people won't die but enough of them will be sick enough so they won't be able to work. When enough people call in sick where ever they work it will have to shut down. It's a cascading failure.

The counter to this (in this case) is herd immunity (which hasn't worked on is own) or vaccination. When enough people are vaccinated then the % of sick people should fall to a manageable level.

When people only focus on death rate, they don't understand the issue.

opinionated3

Strumms wrote: »

So no restrictions work better ? If level 5 turns into a shîtshow.. say 9000 cases a day, what would 4 have done ? Worse again... much worse... people just need to fuçkin sort themselves out.. get back to being team players in sorting this shïtshow and forget about their needy gumpy grumpy whims, it’s a fûckin pandemic, restrictions aren’t in place for the craic.

Team players?? What team is this? In case you haven't noticed we were never all in this together. That was just a stupid tag line. When you divide society by deciding who can earn a living and who can't, you've lost straightaway.

dalyboy

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

To keep the spirits up do watch below for 10 - 20 mins. There are very beautiful things in this world, things you need to see, at least once.

PS bloody restaurants with outdoor seating... :pac:

What I really don’t get is that Ireland clearly is suffering from a masked phantom version of this deadly disease.

How is it that in Ireland outdoor seated restaurants/cafes are considered so lethal as to merit their shutting (till June by all accounts in recent announcements FFS)

What planet are these dumbbells living on ???

There needs to be a separate thread on boards illustrating how other countries are handling this so called pandemic with constant streaming of other cities. It’s important for compare and contrast.

I remember looking at videos last June of hotels in Disney Paris. Full swing operations with swimming pools , bars open and people with smiles on their faces. While we were letting NPHET fear porn brainwash us here.
Despicable Ireland nonsense country

beauf

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

.... I have genuinely been against majority of restrictions trying to control a virus that is clearly uncontrollable even in hospitals where every precaution is taken. ...

I dunno about that. I personally know a good few people who have been in hospital during the last year who didn't get Covid. So it's not uncontrollable. Again if it keeps the % low enough to be manageable then it has worked. There was a time many medical places were running out of staff due to sickness and having to isolate. That seems to returned to a manageable level.