When will it all end?

beauf

opinionated3 wrote: »

Team players?? What team is this? In case you haven't noticed we were never all in this together. That was just a stupid tag line. When you divide society by deciding who can earn a living and who can't, you've lost straightaway.

Society has always been divided. You just didn't notice it before.

ujjjjjjjjj

robbiezero wrote: »

How will health care workers suffer from people hiking?

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

1st part in bold - thank you. that is correct. I have genuinely been against majority of restrictions trying to control a virus that is clearly uncontrollable even in hospitals where every precaution is taken. Its called common sense. But I suppose its hard to have any when you are bombarded with "stay at home save lives" "clap for our heroes" rubbish. But I did.

2nd part in bold - you forgot to mention the part where less people in 2020 died than in 2019 in Ireland and many other countries. I Am really not sure why, in the light of this, you are talking about cases and covid deaths? What has that got to do with anything? Do you want to tell me road deaths also while at it? Irrelevant nonsense.

PS with so many cases and deaths with positive PCR tests you've mentioned one would think that lockdown really doesnt do much.. you are supporting my point. Thank you again.

Have also been against all legal restrictions since day one. No issue at all with general health advice being given but legally enforced restrictions are a step across the Rubicon and have caused phenomenal damage. Entirely supportive of people's personal decisions to isolate, restrict movements etc as they see fit but entirely opposed to any sort of legal enforcement or enforced shutdowns.

A year into this it is clearer now than ever that we panicked a year ago and no one can admit it. The average age of death from this virus is still in the mid 80's, it has virtually no impact on children and young people and a tiny risk to the middle aged. Yes certain vulnerable groups and the old and frail are a significant concern but no more so than a strong flu variant outbreak like those we saw in the 1950's and 1960's. By all means put some supports in place for these groups but no legal restrictions.

Moving to where we are now it is clear we have been in lockdown and nothing I say will change that but moving forward we can draw a line in the sand and day once the over 65's and medically vulnerable are vaccinated we open up fully. If you want to be hyper cautious extend this to the over 50's like O'Leary suggested.

beauf

dalyboy wrote: »

What I really don’t get is that Ireland clearly is suffering from a masked phantom version of this deadly disease.

How is it that in Ireland outdoor seated restaurants/cafes are considered so lethal as to merit their shutting (till June by all accounts in recent announcements FFS)

What planet are these dumbbells living on ???

....

Maybe you'd prefer a curfew?

https://en.parisinfo.com/practical-paris/info/guides/info-disruption-paris

The reason is different in different countries and States in the US is the Climate and Society is different. If a place is warm and people mostly socialise out side it will have an effect on transmission rates.

In Ireland we have never been good at following rules and low enforcement. That's going to bite us in this scenario. So people here won't limit thenselves to just eating outside and sticking to the rules.

beauf

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

... The average age of death from this virus is still in the mid 80's, it has virtually no impact on children and young people and a tiny risk to the middle aged. Yes certain vulnerable groups and the old and frail are a significant concern but no more so than a strong flu variant outbreak like those we saw in the 1950's and 1960's. .....

It's not about deaths. It's about not overloading the system. It's a lot worse in its impact than those flu's.

GazzaL

beauf wrote: »

It's not about deaths. It's about not overloading the system. It's a lot worse in its impact than those flu's.

It gets overloaded every year, without fail. We don't shut the whole country down because of it. What have the Government, HSE and NPHET done to address this in the last 12 months? **** all.

bucketybuck

beauf wrote: »

I dunno about that. I personally know a good few people who have been in hospital during the last year who didn't get Covid. So it's not uncontrollable.

I know people who slept in the same bed as somebody with covid and didn't catch it.

Thinking we have any control over this virus is just arrogance.

CalamariFritti

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

To keep the spirits up do watch below for 10 - 20 mins. There are very beautiful things in this world, things you need to see, at least once.

PS bloody restaurants with outdoor seating... :pac:

Jesus, Venice looks absolutely gorgeous without the stampedes.

dalyboy

beauf wrote: »

Maybe you'd prefer a curfew?

https://en.parisinfo.com/practical-paris/info/guides/info-disruption-paris

The reason is different in different countries and States in the US is the Climate and Society is different. If a place is warm and people mostly socialise out side it will have an effect on transmission rates.

In Ireland we have never been good at following rules and low enforcement. That's going to bite us in this scenario. So people here won't limit thenselves to just eating outside and sticking to the rules.

Difference is I’d bet the farm Paris will be open in 5-6 weeks when the numbers reflect sensible commercial reopening. We will follow our busted economic action of remaining closed even when these countries demonstrate that their reopening is NOT contributing to additional infections. “Irish science”

Ps
I’d gladly sit outside today 13 degrees in February. Sadly MM has deemed it hazardous.

ujjjjjjjjj

beauf wrote: »

It's not about deaths. It's about not overloading the system. It's a lot worse in its impact than those flu's.

I think you need to read some history and gain a perspective on the 1950's and 1960's flu outbreaks.

The state of the Irish health system and years of chronic mismanagement, low numbers of ICU beds, shortage of staff etc etc is the cause of the strain. Every winter we have it and year after year goes by with no change. If the sole reason as you suggest for these extended lockdowns is to not overload the system the cause of this overloading is years of mismanagement. That is the real story here.

Ginger n Lemon

dalyboy wrote: »

Difference is I’d bet the farm Paris will be open in 5-6 weeks when the numbers reflect sensible commercial reopening. We will follow our busted economic action of remaining closed even when these countries demonstrate that their reopening is NOT contributing to additional infections. “Irish science”

Ps
I’d gladly sit outside today 13 degrees in February. Sadly MM has deemed it hazardous.

Already re opening. Schools opened. Hairdressers to open 1 March onward, other businesses to follow.

Issue with Ireland is that our finance minister is wet blanket that just pretty much borrows 24 / 7. Unfortunately a lot of people got dumber in 2020 and dont realize the significance of this. This time 12 or 18 months ago HSE staff will be getting a paycut and or increase to pension levy, "clapping for the heroes" will seem like some sort of a twisted joke.

beauf

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

I think you need to read some history and gain a perspective on the 1950's and 1960's flu outbreaks.

The state of the Irish health system and years of chronic mismanagement, low numbers of ICU beds, shortage of staff etc etc is the cause of the strain. Every winter we have it and year after year goes by with no change. If the sole reason as you suggest for these extended lockdowns is to not overload the system the cause of this overloading is years of mismanagement. That is the real story here.

They didn't have the same transmission rate. That's is the difference. The overloading was on a completely different scale due to Covid.

beauf

dalyboy wrote: »

Difference is I’d bet the farm Paris will be open in 5-6 weeks when the numbers reflect sensible commercial reopening. We will follow our busted economic action of remaining closed even when these countries demonstrate that their reopening is NOT contributing to additional infections. “Irish science”

Ps
I’d gladly sit outside today 13 degrees in February. Sadly MM has deemed it hazardous.

So you do want a curfew.

ujjjjjjjjj

beauf wrote: »

They didn't have the same transmission rate. That's is the difference. The overloading was on a completely different scale due to Covid.

Don't agree. The 1950's and 1960's flu outbreaks were extensive and nasty and highly virulent. It is just our reaction this time has been so different.

beauf

bucketybuck wrote: »

I know people who slept in the same bed as somebody with covid and didn't catch it.

Thinking we have any control over this virus is just arrogance.

Fact remains that controls do work on reducing the transmission of a virus.

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You have something to look forward to. Other than walks within 5 km and cutting your own hair for next few months (years?).

Assuming M Martin is held unaccountable ofcourse.

But weird. I know what Venice looks like, I can look forward to lots of things.
Not sure why you would post that video. Unless you're just trying to actually depress people?

Anyway, I am a believer in obeying the laws of the country. I don't always agree with the laws but I am happy enough to go alongside the general consensus.

I do agree with lockdowns to a certain extent, and bans on movement, to a certain extent. But only to get initial high numbers down, and keep the health system going. I would have much preferred a curfew system then closing everything! We have dropped the daily cases from 8000ish to under 1000, what else do they need?

I'm waiting to hear the official statement from the taoiseach (March is it?) But hopefully after that, there will be an actual end in sight and the beginning of opening up again.

I couldn't blame business owners and employees from starting some kind of disobedience, or even large scale peaceful protests.

dalyboy

beauf wrote: »

So you do want a curfew.

Is this a joke question? A curfew from what.
Everything is presently closed in Ireland

Thespoofer

GazzaL wrote: »

It gets overloaded every year, without fail. We don't shut the whole country down because of it. What have the Government, HSE and NPHET done to address this in the last 12 months? **** all.

You can be sure they'll pay their own salaries first before any improvements in our healthcare system are considered.

beauf

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Don't agree. The 1950's and 1960's flu outbreaks were extensive and nasty and highly virulent. It is just our reaction this time has been so different.

I didn't say they weren't. I just said Covid was worse.

Ginger n Lemon

bubblypop wrote: »

But weird. I know what Venice looks like, I can look forward to lots of things.
Not sure why you would post that video. Unless you're just trying to actually depress people?

Anyway, I am a believer in obeying the laws of the country. I don't always agree with the laws but I am happy enough to go alongside the general consensus.

I do agree with lockdowns to a certain extent, and bans on movement, to a certain extent. But only to get initial high numbers down, and keep the health system going. I would have much preferred a curfew system then closing everything! We have dropped the daily cases from 8000ish to under 1000, what else do they need?

I'm waiting to hear the official statement from the taoiseach (March is it?) But hopefully after that, there will be an actual end in sight and the beginning of opening up again.

I couldn't blame business owners and employees from starting some kind of disobedience, or even large scale peaceful protests.

I found video to be extremely uplifting. You can see tourists, outdoor dinning, beautiful architecture. Whats depressing about that?

I think, based on 2nd part in bold, you do realise that things cant continue as they are and something has to be done. We agree on something atleast

Ginger n Lemon

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-in-ireland-lockdown-rules-must-stay-until-waiting-lists-fall-says-nphet-76pvt0m7r

Covid-19 in Ireland: Lockdown rules must stay until waiting lists fall, says Nphet

To answer the question from post #1 in the thread, it will all end when waiting lists fall.

beauf

dalyboy wrote: »

Is this a joke question? A curfew from what.
Everything is presently closed in Ireland

Other countries that people suggest had less restrictions than Ireland actually had worse restrictions like curfew. If people want the same restrictions as somewhere else then they must those worse restrictions. Like a curfew.

You'd have to look at the curfews in other countries. They didn't do it the same way.

Everything isn't presently closed in Ireland. I'll be going out to a park shortly, and will stop for a coffee on the way. If I need to fill the car I'll be able to do that and buy something in the shop.

beauf

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I found video to be extremely uplifting. You can see tourists, outdoor dinning, beautiful architecture. Whats depressing about that?

I think, based on 2nd part in bold, you do realise that things cant continue as they are and something has to be done. We agree on something atleast

What people find depressing doesn't work the same for everyone.

Doesn't alcohol n work like that, it can make you happier or more sad. I can't remember.

beauf

Thespoofer wrote: »

You can be sure they'll pay their own salaries first before any improvements in our healthcare system are considered.

If you can't beat them join them...

dalyboy

beauf wrote: »

Other countries that people suggest had less restrictions than Ireland actually had worse restrictions like curfew. If people want the same restrictions as somewhere else then they must those worse restrictions. Like a curfew.

You'd have to look at the curfews in other countries. They didn't do it the same way.

Everything isn't presently closed in Ireland. I'll be going out to a park shortly, and will stop for a coffee on the way. If I need to fill the car I'll be able to do that and buy something in the shop.

Can I see a white paper or any citation that backs up that assertion in bold please. You must clearly have scientific experimentation to back it up otherwise is it a page from some tyrannical novel your reading ?

beauf

GazzaL wrote: »

It gets overloaded every year, without fail. We don't shut the whole country down because of it. What have the Government, HSE and NPHET done to address this in the last 12 months? **** all.

It doesn't get overloaded the same way. Are people still saying this is the same as flu? Wow.

When you say "... address this..." I assume you mean the annual overcrowding and lack of capacity.

Well they can do little in a pandemic. But take the new children's hospital. It's 2 billion and rising with no extra beds. That's what they are doing....

Ginger n Lemon

beauf wrote: »

It doesn't get overloaded the same way. Are people still saying this is the same as flu? Wow.

When you say "... address this..." I assume you mean the annual overcrowding and lack of capacity.

Well they can do little in a pandemic. But take the new children's hospital. It's 2 billion and rising with no extra beds. That's what they are doing....

Ok.

Let us know when it ceases to be a pandemic and when we can hold them accountable.

2024? Poor politicians, HSE. Can do little before then. Lets clap for them? :pac:

beauf

dalyboy wrote: »

Can I see a white paper or any citation that backs up that assertion in bold please. You must clearly have scientific experimentation to back it up otherwise is it a page from some tyrannical novel your reading ?

You want me to backup with scientific experimentation that some countries implemented curfews or that people in this thread wanted to copy other countries approach. Is that your question?

beauf

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Ok.

Let us know when it ceases to be a pandemic and when we can hold them accountable.

2024? Poor politicians, HSE. Can do little before then. Lets clap for them? :pac:

Problems you're talking about have existed for decades. Why haven't you held them accountable before now.

Coillte_Bhoy

dalyboy wrote: »

Is this a joke question? A curfew from what.
Everything is presently closed in Ireland

Utter nonsense, even the pound shop in my town is open

PhoneMain

GazzaL wrote: »

It gets overloaded every year, without fail. We don't shut the whole country down because of it. What have the Government, HSE and NPHET done to address this in the last 12 months? **** all.

This is the most stupid, ill informed take what I've seen floating around this year. Yes the hospital systems are under pressure every January. Yes we have people lying on trolleys. Yes its extensively covered by the media. Yes we havent addressed it. But......


That pressure every January doesnt lead to our ICUs being overwhelmed.
That pressure isn't due to 1 respiratory illness
That pressure doesnt lead to staff shortages
That pressure doesnt lead to people getting ICU treatment outside of ICU
That pressure doesnt lead to people in their 40s and 50s getting high level oxygen therapy.

This all happened this January. The pressure that was felt by the hospital system in January was mostly down to 1 respiratory illness, Covid. Flu every year doesnt cause the issues that Covid did this January. Say what you want about how poor our hospitals cope every January but it was nothing compared to the pressure that came on this January.

I say all this not to say that I am in favour of lockdowns until Summer. I say this to dispel the idiotic notion that what happened this January in Ireland was like anything thats happened the last few years in January. I've worked in hospitals in other Januarys, believe me there wasnt people with flu rampant all over the hospital, unlike this year where there was people sick with Covid coming in the doors all day.