When will it all end?

partyguinness

Deleted User wrote: »

And I've talked to several nurses who've said the exact opposite.
And most nurses I've ever had the subject raised with believe in Reiki and Homeopathy so there's that too.

What is the exact opposite? The number are far higher?


Not just nurses. As I mentioned an A&E Consultant said the same. In fact that was my first conversation and then I repeated it to two nurses who work in Covid wards and they quietly agreed or at least didnt deny it and the other just straight said "Yeah the numbers are nowhere near as high".

Mr. Karate

Wesekn. wrote: »

I reckon holohan could do the lot on his own

Guy is a genius

Any asshole can demand a full Level 5 lockdown on a whim. We could easily do that and half of what they're paying this clown.

CalamariFritti

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The people in hospital or dying are the very old and very sick already. The majority of these people simply died of old age and sickness but were infected with the virus. The numbers who have actually died directly from covid are actually minimal. The PCR tests in any case are notoriously inaccurate.
The vast majority of people who have tested positive for covid in the wider community have no symptoms and never will get sick never mind die. Those who do suffer merely from normal flu symptoms and recover.
The numbers of actual covid infects are multiples of the cases reported.

Therefore perhaps the entire population of Ireland has caught it and most didn't know it.

Our of a population of 5 million over 2000 have died.

That's a death rate of 0.03%

We are facing into an economic disaster a collapse in small businesses mass unemployment mass homelessness and civil strife because there will be no safety valve countries the young can emigrate to.

We have watched our government give power to craze doom merchants who have brought the country to its knees.

I hear you (to some degree) but the situation we are in is more complicated than that. We need the vaccine from a medical point of view as much as we need it for societal, political reasons. The way we're going on about this I cant see us returning to normal any time soon if the vaccines don't work as we hope/expect. We have backed ourselves into a corner in that regard and the vaccine is our only way out of it.

Not saying that I agree with that just saying thats how I see it.

Allinall

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Any asshole can demand a full Level 5 lockdown on a whim. We could easily do that and half of what they're paying this clown.

What did they say when you applied for the job?

Paddygreen

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Do whatever Dr Tony says? Even if it destroys your business your job and your life?
How are people going to pay their bills their mortgages their rents feed their families when the PUP is cut or finally cut off?
When you are living in a tent in the wind and rain will you still wear a mask and rub that alcohol on your hands?

Yes and Yes. We must do as he says. Dr Tony is our last faint glimmer of hope going forward. I wish I could hug him, but that is an unsafe old normal practice. We must never hug each other ever again.

partyguinness

Quazzie wrote: »

What headlines state numbers that died FROM covid. If there are any then it is deliberately misleading as these figures are never released. All official figures are for people who have died WITH covid.

Just as a reference here is the RTE website from recently.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0110/1188782-coronavirus-ireland/

Ok dies with Covid. Dying 'with' Covid is not the same as dying 'from' Covid' which is in esence my point.


The figures for those who die 'from' Covid are not released. Why?

Wesekn.

Paddygreen wrote: »

I have made a Dr Tony shrine in the corner of the sitting room, a little grotto. It is the only thing that comforts me now. Must light a few incense cones now that I think of it. I smell Death everywhere now.

I've got lots of Dr Tony gear now

Dr Tony pens and keychains

A lifesize Dr Tony poster

Quazzie

partyguinness wrote: »

What is the exact opposite? The number are far higher?


Not just nurses. As I mentioned an A&E Consultant said the same. In fact that was my first conversation and then I repeated it to two nurses who work in Covid wards and they quietly agreed or at least didnt deny it and the other just straight said "Yeah the numbers are nowhere near as high".

So that's a different story. It wasn't that two nurses said it you, it's that you suggested it to two nurses and they didn't deny it.

I think you've just let the cat out of the bag there that your story is a complete fabrication.

CalamariFritti

landofthetree wrote: »

But you are putting others at risk.

The vaccine is 95% effective so their is still a 5% chance a vulnerable person will get it if they are exposed.

But like I said in another post. We will never be able to reduce the risk to zero. We will never be able to prevent all deaths not even all covid deaths I'm sure.

Once there is no threat for immediate overwhelming the health service all bets are off.

questionmark?

partyguinness wrote: »

You are crediting me with a fantastic imagination if you think I can go around making up rubbish like that.

I guess I am crediting you with a fantastic imagination. Your welcome. Maybe consider writing a book.

Quazzie

partyguinness wrote: »

Ok dies with Covid. Dying 'with' Covid is not the same as dying 'from' Covid' which is in esence my point.


The figures for those who die 'from' Covid are not released. Why?

Because the health service is overrun, and you want full on investigations into every single patient to see the exact cause of their death. What they die from is entirely subjective.

Lets take a hypothetical. If Johnny is 75, and has lung cancer, with a life expectancy of 6 more months, but he gets covid and dies next week. Was it the covid that killed him, or the cancer. The argument that if he didn't get covid he'd still be alive, but it was probably the cancer that killed him overall.

partyguinness

Quazzie wrote: »

You do realise falsifying evidence on a death cert is a crime, and can lead to a medical practitioner losing their license to practice medicine?

It's not about falsifying evidence or information. In the absence of a comprehensive autopsy and tests (which are not being carried out), hospitals will put down what they deem the cause of death in their medical opinion.

lee_baby_simms

Wesekn. wrote: »

I reckon holohan could do the lot on his own

Guy is a genius

He truly is a marvel, a master strategist with a peerless intellect.

Cases are going up = shut everything down.

Alf Veedersane

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

There is going to be a new variant and new vaccine every year. The virus is endemic now. It's not going away. So that means we repeat the cycle of lockdowns forever? This is absolute and total insanity.

The coronavirus mutates slowly and there have been well in excess of 12,000 mutations already. All accounted for by the vaccines. Whether or not the efficacy of a vaccine is reduced for certain variants remains to be seen but it still means it has a significant impact on the number of people contracting Covid so no there won't be lockdowns because there won't be a risk of hospitals being overrun.

CalamariFritti

Augeo wrote: »

Folk that trot out spiels like the bolded piece don't give a fnck about anyone but themselves but they'll p1ss and moan about pubs being closed etc etc and how the gubernment are a disgrace bla bla bla

That is nonsense and an insult. I shouldn't even bother replying.

This is not about protecting everyone from every risk out there. You could give your gran the flu too you know?

This is only about the overwhelming the health service situation. Trying to prevent deaths arising from that situation alone.

Unless we are getting into little isolation tanks and go into the Matrix or something there will still be people dying from covid no matter what.

bb1234567

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The people in hospital or dying are the very old and very sick already. The majority of these people simply died of old age and sickness but were infected with the virus. The numbers who have actually died directly from covid are actually minimal. The PCR tests in any case are notoriously inaccurate.
The vast majority of people who have tested positive for covid in the wider community have no symptoms and never will get sick never mind die. Those who do suffer merely from normal flu symptoms and recover.
The numbers of actual covid infects are multiples of the cases reported.

Therefore perhaps the entire population of Ireland has caught it and most didn't know it.

Our of a population of 5 million over 2000 have died.

That's a death rate of 0.03%

We are facing into an economic disaster a collapse in small businesses mass unemployment mass homelessness and civil strife because there will be no safety valve countries the young can emigrate to.

We have watched our government give power to crazed doom merchants who have brought the country to its knees.

By this logic being shot in the head has a far lower death rate nationally than covid. About 0.00001% death rate of Irish people who died from gunshot wounds. And that's just the start of all the complete nonsense in that post, it felt like a time warp back to march reading

partyguinness

Quazzie wrote: »

Because the health service is overrun, and you want full on investigations into every single patient to see the exact cause of their death. What they die from is entirely subjective.

Exactly. It is done for expediency as I have said above with the heart attack analogy.

Quazzie wrote: »

Lets take a hypothetical. If Johnny is 75, and has lung cancer, with a life expectancy of 6 more months, but he gets covid and dies next week. Was it the covid that killed him, or the cancer. The argument that if he didn't get covid he'd still be alive, but it was probably the cancer that killed him overall.

Well yes. I agree. We are on the same page. Or as medical staff said duing the first lockdown in March- "They died in April rather than August".

partyguinness

Quazzie wrote: »

So that's a different story. It wasn't that two nurses said it you, it's that you suggested it to two nurses and they didn't deny it.

I think you've just let the cat out of the bag there that your story is a complete fabrication.

Re read my post. Good lad.

lee_baby_simms

partyguinness wrote: »

Ok dies with Covid. Dying 'with' Covid is not the same as dying 'from' Covid' which is in esence my point.


The figures for those who die 'from' Covid are not released. Why?

Because they’re very small numbers in relation to ‘with Covid’ deaths. It’s also why the average age of Covid deaths isn’t released anymore. Because it’s higher than average life expectancy.

HSE briefings are as much about tone and messaging than raw numbers.

Anything that might make people complacent is avoided even at the expense of the public’s mental health.

CalamariFritti

CalamariFritti wrote: »

That is nonsense and an insult. I shouldn't even bother replying.

This is not about protecting everyone from every risk out there. You could give your gran the flu too you know?

This is only about the overwhelming the health service situation. Trying to prevent deaths arising from that situation alone.

Unless we are getting into little isolation tanks and go into the Matrix or something there will still be people dying from covid no matter what.

This. People will continue to catch and unfortunately some will die of COVID, as is the case with the flu despite flu jabs being given out to the vulnerable every winter. Why does anyone think that COVID will be any different? The vaccine is not 100% effective, but that won’t stop us getting back to normal.

partyguinness

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Because they’re very small numbers in relation to ‘with Covid’ deaths. It’s also why the average age of Covid deaths isn’t released anymore. Because it’s higher than average life expectancy.

HSE briefings are as much about tone and messaging than than raw numbers.

Anything that might make people complacent is avoided even at the expense of the public’s mental health.

That's another point which I was going to write. Better to over egg it that down play it.

I don't want to use the word scaremongering but there is an element of the HSE etc balancing out the need to exercise the necessary caution without getting complacent. Using shockingly high figures is not the worst tool in world.

It is about keeping the public in a heightened state of alert.

CalamariFritti

Quazzie wrote: »

Because the health service is overrun, and you want full on investigations into every single patient to see the exact cause of their death. What they die from is entirely subjective.

Lets take a hypothetical. If Johnny is 75, and has lung cancer, with a life expectancy of 6 more months, but he gets covid and dies next week. Was it the covid that killed him, or the cancer. The argument that if he didn't get covid he'd still be alive, but it was probably the cancer that killed him overall.

I dont think anyone says we need an investigation into every single with or from or whatnot.

But the situation is that we do report deaths that we're not fully sure of whether covid was the definitive cause or just a definitive contributor or only maybe a contributor. That is the advised WHO policy and we do that so that we dont under report. Of course the consequence is that we are now over reporting. By how much is anyones guess but thats a fact.

Alf Veedersane

partyguinness wrote: »

Ok dies with Covid. Dying 'with' Covid is not the same as dying 'from' Covid' which is in esence my point.


The figures for those who die 'from' Covid are not released. Why?

Not every death of a person who has tested positive with covid is recorded as a covid death.

The chain of events is recorded on the cert. If you are in a car crash and die with covid, it is not a covid death.
If you had covid and had a heart attack and died, you may or may not be a covid death; if you had covid, developed pneumonia as a result (covid-19 pneumonia is a thing) and then had a heart attack, that would be a covid death for obvious reasons. But you can have a heart attack where having covid isn't classified as an underlying cause.

Samsonsmasher

bb1234567 wrote: »

By this logic being shot in the head has a far lower death rate nationally than covid. About 0.00001% death rate of Irish people who died from gunshot wounds. And that's just the start of all the complete nonsense in that post, it felt like a time warp back to march reading

We haven't shut the country down because of the Hutch Kinahan feud.
On average 600+ people die every year in Ireland during flu season.
2000 + have died
We were told 100000+ would die.
This is insanity.

Quazzie

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

We were told 100000+ would die.
This is insanity.

Pointing out that figure is just reinforcement that lockdowns, and all the other measures do work. We avoided that figure due to the actions taken. You almost sound disappointed that more people didn't die.

CalamariFritti

CalamariFritti wrote: »

That is nonsense and an insult. I shouldn't even bother replying.

This is not about protecting everyone from every risk out there. You could give your gran the flu too you know?

This is only about the overwhelming the health service situation. Trying to prevent deaths arising from that situation alone.

Unless we are getting into little isolation tanks and go into the Matrix or something there will still be people dying from covid no matter what.

All the more reason for everyone to get vaccinated when they get the chance.

partyguinness

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Not every death of a person who has tested positive with covid is recorded as a covid death.

They die with Covid. We are not given the figures for those that die purely from Covid.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The chain of events is recorded on the cert. If you are in a car crash and die with covid, it is not a covid death.
If you had covid and had a heart attack and died, you may or may not be a covid death; if you had covid, developed pneumonia as a result (covid-19 pneumonia is a thing) and then had a heart attack, that would be a covid death for obvious reasons. But you can have a heart attack where having covid isn't classified as an underlying cause.

Yes I am aware of how deaths are recorded. In relation to the last sentence it seems to be the opposite. A positive Covid is still listed on the death certificate and that is then fedback into the figures i.e. it is put down anyway and then that gets swept up into the overall headline figures.

I saw a death cert of a guy (aged 73 fit and healthy) last March. Walked himself into A&E with severe stomach cramps. As it turned out he was having a thoracic aneurysm. Emergency surgery etc the works and was laid up in ICU for a week and all sorts of well known complications arose from that type of incident. Never regained consciousness. Bottom line is he didnt make as such an aneurysm has a very high mortality rate. Low and behold Covid is then listed on his death cert (3rd in the sequence) as he also tested positive. He was a goner anyway but no way he died from Covid but rather with it.

Alf Veedersane

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

On average 600+ people die every year in Ireland during flu season..

Well that's incorrect according to actual data as opposed to made up numbers.

2017/2018 was the worst flu season in the last decade with 261 deaths. 96 confirmed, the balance probable. Majority of the rest in that timeframe were less than half that.

niallo27

Quazzie wrote: »

What headlines state numbers that died FROM covid. If there are any then it is deliberately misleading as these figures are never released. All official figures are for people who have died WITH covid.

Just as a reference here is the RTE website from recently.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0110/1188782-coronavirus-ireland/

Very hard to differentiate though, its impossible to know how many would have died anyway with or without it, but it seems taboo on here to ask that question or dare say people would have died anyway.

doublejobbing 2

Augeo wrote: »

You could nearly guess what 40% .............. offer them a free bag of cans or get Mary Lou to encourage them, job done :cool:

I always find it bizarre that each and every vaccine skeptic I know has taken hundreds, in many cases thousands, of doses of tablets, powders, resins and grasses sold as ecstasy, cocaine and cannabis that probably contained everything from cow deworming agent to diesel and plastic (in hash).

I also believe that to a man each one of these people would take the vaccine if they were given a 200 euro voucher for doing so. Perhaps even a 100 euro voucher.