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When will it all end?
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ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »If Mehole and Verruca had half a brain they would be straight onto Boris to see can we get a couple of million AZ doses so we can catch up with the UK rapid.
Why because the UK won't want Ireland (and the shared border) to be way behind on vaccinations as they know it will be mixing two populations with differing levels of vaccine immunity.
Forget the past and the optics and just do what is best for the Irish people. If the EU take the hump so what.......
I think the UK would bite on this....
I think some would rather get sick then give the UK an ounce of credit for anything. We must remember that Brexit was supposed to be a pleasurable but masochistic experience where we watch the UK suffer.
Too bad this pandemic came along and showed us what real economic damage looks like. Too bad they've vaccinated 1/4 of their adult population. We need to focus on the negatives.0 -
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Ginger n Lemon wrote: »You havent answered my question.
You're basically wondering if we can exit level 5 before enough people are vaccinated?
I don't think we can do it safely without enough vulnerable people vaccinated.
Even Boris Johnson's plan is a best case scenario and not set in stone. If they don't have enough people vaccinated by June or some of the new strains are vaccine resistant his plan to open up will change.
There is no reason why Ireland shouldn't follow the UK's example of opening up IF it is successful and we have enough people vaccinated.0 -
SheepsClothing wrote: »And why do you think we had less deaths than 2019 and a country like Sweden had their most excess deaths in 100 years? Might it have something to do with the restrictions maybe!!???
I've always been reticent to say somebody doesn't care about people dying, but from your posts, I think you might be the exception.
Sweden had more deaths per million of population in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 than 2020.
As to that last part in bold - please stop this save the granny rhetoric, it was noble and hero like back in April 2020, but now its just pathetic.0 -
stefanovich wrote: »They've got way more than they need ordered and are donating a tonne to poor countries.
When?0 -
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You're basically wondering if we can exit level 5 before enough people are vaccinated?
I don't think we can do it safely without enough vulnerable people vaccinated.
Even Boris Johnson's plan is a best case scenario and not set in stone. If they don't have enough people vaccinated by June or some of the new strains are vaccine resistant his plan to open up will change.
There is no reason why Ireland shouldn't follow the UK's example of opening up IF it is successful and we have enough people vaccinated.
Nope. Thats not my question at all.
My question is, if we have no one or 1 person a day die with positive PCR test for the next 4 weeks straight - do you think we should stay in level 5 until May as is currently planned by our weak spineless govt? This question has nothing to do with vaccine efforts. I think that 240,000 + vaccinated in Ireland already is not exactly "lets stay in level 5 until the summer" material.0 -
Ginger n Lemon wrote: »Sweden had more deaths per million of population in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 than 2020.
As to that last part in bold - please stop this save the granny rhetoric, it was noble and hero like back in April 2020, but now its just pathetic.
I realise you don't care, it's ok. I'm just glad you're not in charge of anything.0 -
If the UK had a few million doses, do you not think they might want to y'know........ Prioritise their citizens?
Every EU contract had the "best effort clause".
For all we know the J and J vaccine mightn't arrive in the numbers we are being told.
The UK could have spare vaccines by June.0 -
landofthetree wrote: »Every EU contract had the "best effort clause".
For all we know the J and J vaccine mightn't arrive in the numbers we are being told.
The UK could have spare vaccines by June.
If their expecting to have one jab in every person by the end of July, how will they have extra in June?0 -
We're not a poor country.stefanovich wrote: »They've got way more than they need ordered and are donating a tonne to poor countries.0
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Ginger n Lemon wrote: »Nope. Thats not my question at all.
My question is, if we have no one or 1 person a day die with positive PCR test for the next 4 weeks straight - do you think we should stay in level 5 until May as is currently planned by our weak spineless govt? This question has nothing to do with vaccine efforts. I think that 240,000 + vaccinated in Ireland already is not exactly "lets stay in level 5 until the summer" material.
We have a seven day average of 27 deaths (I know you don't care) per day. The number of deaths reported on any one day is irrelevant when it comes to policy making. You throwing out completely unrealistic hypotheticals isn't going to change that.0 -
If the UK had a few million doses, do you not think they might want to y'know........ Prioritise their citizens?
Yes of course but I guarantee it won't fall on deaf ears......
Makes sense and has the bonus of some political point scoring too for the UK as it makes the EU roleout look bad. May not happen but no harm checking it out....
The EU hasn't been too bothered about Germans and Hungarians doing solo runs outside the EU procurement loops. They will get over it and if the UK offered us some vaccines it would be daft to turn it down....
The single aim now for the Irish government needs to be to try and get to a point where we can mirror the UK exit plan - forget that it's the UK and I get most people have now had 5 years of UK bashing and Brexit stuff and yes it will make people ill to talk to Boris....but so what if it gets us open faster it's job done.
In a couple of years no one will remember where we got the vaccines from.....or care....0 -
We should remain forever vigilant, and when this covid thing is over, we need to keep our distance and stay safe.
It's imperative for the vunerable, zero tolerance for enjoyment, festivals and events, do not at any junction underestimate the danger's of mixing with family, friend's and work colleagues.
When you're allowed to travel country in future you should have to book your ticket to go from Kerry to Limerick,a nominal fee of maybe 80 Euro should be sufficient.
And some sort of passport for different colour zone's, so depending on your risk management and whether you're high low medium , there should be a fee too for these passports and they should be chipped and connected to your car, so if you cross the line and have the wrong passport your car will be imobilised and you'll be charged a tax to get it mobilised.
There's a killing to be made now, and the senior civil servants should be able to give themselves good bonuses, and they deserve it.
I think they're doing a great job keeping us all safe from each other.
Bravo! About time someone said it.0 -
https://www.newstalk.com/news/time-for-taoiseach-to-open-talks-on-buying-vaccine-from-the-uk-dr-gabriel-scally-1154619
The deckchairs are being arranged.......0 -
SheepsClothing wrote: »We have a seven day average of 27 deaths (I know you don't care) per day. The number of deaths reported on any one day is irrelevant when it comes to policy making. You throwing out completely unrealistic hypotheticals isn't going to change that.
Our seven day average is much higher than 27 deaths as, you know, covid isnt the only "cause" of death. Cause is a strong word lol.
Reality is less people died in Ireland in 2020 than in 2019. Despite all those THOUSANDS of daily deaths from March, April 2020.
You've been spooked. It will take many months, maybe years to reverse the damage but trust me this is a very mild illness, no need to go into "people are dying" hysteria. People have been dying well before covid-19.
These are just facts. I am very sorry covid isnt this killer virus that newspapers make it out to be, and no Brazil variant does not have 10% mortality. :rolleyes:0 -
SheepsClothing wrote: »I love that all the patriots, who care so much about the economy and Irish business, are all planning to spend their disposable income abroad this summer. Fitting.
Yes but as long as there's no variant coming from the mainland to the Arran Islands and many other islands along the coastline in Ireland, and it should be viable to head from Doolin Co Clare, to the Arran Islands.
And it should be zoned out too,as should it be allowed for a few families at a time to be allowed on the ferries, for social distancing and the well being for all, and don't forget that there's people who need a cut out of this.
Since they're doing a great job protecting us all.
There's hundreds of Islands around the country that could be enhanced for visitors, the Saltees off Wexford for example, mutton island off West Clare there's hundreds of Islands, all the islands on the lake's of the Shannon too.
There's Islands all over the country, the Shannon estuary has Islands..
Poor man's Kilkee in Limerick should be noted too.
It's warm during the summer time, have any of ye heard of poor man's Kilkee it's just on the Shannon there in the middle of Limerick city, you can lie out in the sunshine get a beautiful tan and you have hotels nearby...
There's a lot we can do in our own country, but remember stay safe and keep your distance..0 -
ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »Yes of course but I guarantee it won't fall on deaf ears......
Makes sense and has the bonus of some political point scoring too for the UK as it makes the EU roleout look bad. May not happen but no harm checking it out....
The EU hasn't been too bothered about Germans and Hungarians doing solo runs outside the EU procurement loops. They will get over it and if the UK offered us some vaccines it would be daft to turn it down....
The single aim now for the Irish government needs to be to try and get to a point where we can mirror the UK exit plan - forget that it's the UK and I get most people have now had 5 years of UK bashing and Brexit stuff and yes it will make people ill to talk to Boris....but so what if it gets us open faster it's job done.
In a couple of years no one will remember where we got the vaccines from.....or care....
Yes, but when will they have excess? What's the point in paying over the odds for 2 million doses if we're not getting them till September when we'll have achieved majority vaccination?0 -
Ginger n Lemon wrote: »Our seven day average is much higher than 27 deaths as, you know, covid isnt the only "cause" of death. Cause is a strong word lol.
Reality is less people died in Ireland in 2020 than in 2019. Despite all those THOUSANDS of daily deaths from March, April 2020.
You've been spooked. It will take many months, maybe years to reverse the damage but trust me this is a very mild illness, no need to go into "people are dying" hysteria. People have been dying well before covid-19.
These are just facts. I am very sorry covid isnt this killer virus that newspapers make it out to be, and no Brazil variant does not have 10% mortality. :rolleyes:
Entirely agree re the spooked bit.....I don't blame people as it has been relentless doom and gloom for over a year now and we are assaulted on all sides.
Part of the healing process now is perspective, the UK statement yesterday really has buoyed people because for the first time they have said something that puts where we will be with Covid in perspective.....it is about accepting and not trying to get to some fantasy land place where Covid just goes away and leaves us alone.
Will old people still be dieing of respiratory disease five years from now, yes, will some be flu, some covid......yes. Will the average life expectancy drop - would be shocked if it did, therefore no change.
In time it will just be a mild endemic virus just like the current corona viruses in the human population that cause little more than a common cold today. (but they can still be fatal to the very frail and weak......)0 -
Yes, but when will they have excess? What's the point in paying over the odds for 2 million doses if we're not getting them till September when we'll have achieved majority vaccination?
Okay but just ask......if it makes no sense as we would have got the vaccines through the EU in the same time grand leave it be.....0 -
Ginger n Lemon wrote: »Nope. Thats not my question at all.
My question is, if we have no one or 1 person a day die with positive PCR test for the next 4 weeks straight - do you think we should stay in level 5 until May as is currently planned by our weak spineless govt? This question has nothing to do with vaccine efforts. I think that 240,000 + vaccinated in Ireland already is not exactly "lets stay in level 5 until the summer" material.
Deaths are only part of the issue. The number of people being admitted to hospital is actually a bigger problem than the number of deaths because it increases the chance of someone dying from a non covid related illness due to a lack of hospital capacity.
If the number of people being admitted to hospital and the R number drop to a level where the predicted hospital admissions can be dealt with by the health service then there would be no reason to be in level 5.
Calling the government weak and spineless just shows your lack of understanding, even after a year of this, of how much pressure the health service can be put under when hospital admissions rise.0 -
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I wouldn't worry about it,we have senior professionals in the HSE who are well capable of planning nation wide vaccination programs.
And I think we should let them get on with their jobs, and they should be paid more after all this, I think it's unfair of people saying that they're not working hard enough.
And the 5k should be brought down to 2k for the safety of the vunerable.
I seen two people cycling the other day, and they looked happy, how could anyone be happy during a pandemic is beyond me.
And families with kids running around the place,no masks or anything on and an elderly couple down wind..I had a good mind to call the guards and take their number plate.
People we need to get into a more hard-line lockdown,I don't think we've being safe enough.
And if we take a tenner off covid payment, and put it to better use that would be great I'm all for that.0 -
Deaths are only part of the issue. The number of people being admitted to hospital is actually a bigger problem than the number of deaths because it increases the chance of someone dying from a non covid related illness due to a lack of hospital capacity.
If the number of people being admitted to hospital and the R number drop to a level where the predicted hospital admissions can be dealt with by the health service then there would be no reason to be in level 5.
Calling the government weak and spineless just shows your lack of understanding, even after a year of this, of how much pressure the health service can be put under when hospital admissions rise.
Okay, can you please enlighten me what number of hospital admissions are required to move to level 3? or level 4?
What number of deaths with positive PCR test is acceptable to leave level 5 lockdown?
For the last 11 months you got nothing but "too high" "concerning" "high levels" from this government. If this government cant come up with a number of what is too high or what is low or what is acceptable, how can they be anything but spineless and weak?
Most importantly, how can you look in the mirror with a straight face and think that whats happening is proportionate and acceptable? 4,900,000 people have been affected by governments decisions, yet these very decisions have absolutely no specifics other than "we are trying to prevent spread of covid" and "stay at home save lives" rhetoric. Like that was fine In March 2020 but to be spoon fed this vague shower of shi*e 11 months later on is frankly pathetic.
And btw, 240,000 + vaccinated, with 10k getting vaccinated daily (soon to increase to 25k), you really think we gonna have death and destruction now if we let Anto in Finglas re open barbers tomorrow?0 -
SheepsClothing wrote: »I love that all the patriots, who care so much about the economy and Irish business, are all planning to spend their disposable income abroad this summer. Fitting.Ginger n Lemon wrote: »Okay, can you please enlighten me what number of hospital admissions are required to move to level 3? or level 4?
What number of deaths with positive PCR test is acceptable to leave level 5 lockdown?
For the last 11 months you got nothing but "too high" "concerning" "high levels" from this government. If this government cant come up with a number of what is too high or what is low or what is acceptable, how can they be anything but spineless and weak?
Most importantly, how can you look in the mirror with a straight face and think that whats happening is proportionate and acceptable? 4,900,000 people have been affected by governments decisions, yet these very decisions have absolutely no specifics other than "we are trying to prevent spread of covid" and "stay at home save lives" rhetoric. Like that was fine In March 2020 but to be spoon fed this vague shower of shi*e 11 months later on is frankly pathetic.
And btw, 240,000 + vaccinated, with 10k getting vaccinated daily (soon to increase to 25k), you really think we gonna have death and destruction now if we let Anto in Finglas re open barbers tomorrow?
I think that Anto and all the other barber's should suck it up for the good of the country, after all we're in a pandemic.
Anyone caught cutting hair or even thinking of giving someone a buzz cut, should be shut down and never allowed to cut hair ever again.
Or else sent on a course about public safety and how their back door private shop's should be named and shamed.
Some kind of course that explains the new normal, and they should appologise to the nation for absolute disregard for everyone who's not working.
And the course should be paid for out of Antos pocket, how dare he
I cannot believe that people could be possibly cutting hair, it brings tears to my eye's.
I'm sitting here in my apartment and to think that people are breaking the rules set out is killing me inside.
I haven't been outside the door for day's now, apart from getting my grocery deliveries.
I'm outraged here, absolutely nobody should be able to break the rules.
And to think that people could possibly be having back room barber's and hair salons, what's next some rough looking diamond tattooing people in a shed in Ranalagh.
We need more information about people who are up to illegal activities.
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as really negative but I'm petrified of catching the covid.
On a windy day I wear two masks, and a visor and I still go home and almost have a panic attack.
I'm dressed like those guy's in Breaking bad...
I wonder could I get one of those tents over my house,and I'll be well protected, and it would be a handy number for someone related to a senior civil servant to invest in, everyone could get their house covered in a tent like structure.
The reason I think someone related to a senior civil servant should get the contract is because how could you trust anyone else with that kind of responsibility, I only trust politicians and civil servants...
You can't trust most of the population, because you just don't know where they've been...
Sorry again for being so negative,I'm just full of fear.0 -
Ginger n Lemon wrote: »Sweden had more deaths per million of population in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 than 2020.
As to that last part in bold - please stop this save the granny rhetoric, it was noble and hero like back in April 2020, but now its just pathetic.
Who cares about deaths per million. Everywhere on earth that hasn't been gripped by war has seen deaths per million going down for the last century. It's a chimp brained point, used to obscure the fact that the very best case scenario for a country with limited covid restrictions (Sweden), still resulted in the highest excess deaths figure in over a century.
What is pathetic is people looking at Ireland's yearly death rate going down for 2020 and saying that's a bad thing.0 -
We should remain forever vigilant, and when this covid thing is over, we need to keep our distance and stay safe.
It's imperative for the vunerable, zero tolerance for enjoyment, festivals and events, do not at any junction underestimate the danger's of mixing with family, friend's and work colleagues.
When you're allowed to travel country in future you should have to book your ticket to go from Kerry to Limerick,a nominal fee of maybe 80 Euro should be sufficient.
And some sort of passport for different colour zone's, so depending on your risk management and whether you're high low medium , there should be a fee too for these passports and they should be chipped and connected to your car, so if you cross the line and have the wrong passport your car will be imobilised and you'll be charged a tax to get it mobilised.
There's a killing to be made now, and the senior civil servants should be able to give themselves good bonuses, and they deserve it.
I think they're doing a great job keeping us all safe from each other.
I think there are some further measures we can take to make sure we catch the rule breakers and achieve zero covid.
Children who test positive for covid should have their medical status shared with all the local schools and gaa clubs, so if they dont isolate their school or club will know and can call the gards.
It's a bit trickier with adults but one solution would be to create a public database where everyones medical records are uploaded and available to all - so their employers or neighbours can check and make sure they arent positive and not isolating.
Fax medical records to the airport daily too, in case any try to leave the country for tenerife, the scamps (but continue to have no inward controls)
Personally giving up all rights to privacy over your medical records is a very small price to pay to catch the rule breakers - and who else would object to having their medical records shared publically but covid positive people or their close contacts who were planning not to self isolate properly?0 -
Ginger n Lemon wrote: »Okay, can you please enlighten me what number of hospital admissions are required to move to level 3? or level 4?
What number of deaths with positive PCR test is acceptable to leave level 5 lockdown?
For the last 11 months you got nothing but "too high" "concerning" "high levels" from this government. If this government cant come up with a number of what is too high or what is low or what is acceptable, how can they be anything but spineless and weak?
Most importantly, how can you look in the mirror with a straight face and think that whats happening is proportionate and acceptable? 4,900,000 people have been affected by governments decisions, yet these very decisions have absolutely no specifics other than "we are trying to prevent spread of covid" and "stay at home save lives" rhetoric. Like that was fine In March 2020 but to be spoon fed this vague shower of shi*e 11 months later on is frankly pathetic.
And btw, 240,000 + vaccinated, with 10k getting vaccinated daily (soon to increase to 25k), you really think we gonna have death and destruction now if we let Anto in Finglas re open barbers tomorrow?
The aim has been to get to under 100 cases per day. We're still a long way off that. I have no reason to suggest a different level of case numbers to exit level 5 as I really don't class myself as an expert in virus transmission. Do you have experience or a background in virus transmission? If so maybe you can tells us what the case numbers and R number needs to be to get to level 3 or 4.
Why was it fine in March 2020 but not fine now. What has changed?
The vaccine rollout was always going to be slow but the plan is to vaccinate 1 million per month in April, May and June so there'll be over 3 million people vaccinated by the end of June.
Can you take anything positive from that or do you just look at everything negatively?
The government's first priority in opening up has always been to get the schools opened up. If they were to open up the schools, retail, barbers, construction etc all at the same time and cases rise how are they to know what specifically caused the cases to rise?
It makes more sense to one slowly and watch how the number of cases change in relation to each sector that opens. That reduces the need for further level 5 lockdowns and means targeted lockdowns can be used to close down specific sectors which are responsible for cases to rise.0 -
Though why should the metric be 100 cases per day? What if it's 200 per day in a month's time but new hospitalisations have dropped to nothing?
‘Why do you sit out here all alone?’ said Alice…..
‘Why, because there’s nobody with me!’ cried Humpty Dumpty.‘Did you think I didn’t know the answer to that?’0 -
SheepsClothing wrote: »I love that all the patriots, who care so much about the economy and Irish business, are all planning to spend their disposable income abroad this summer. Fitting.
That’s like saying my shop is closed but how dare you go and buy something in a shop that’s open!0 -
Though why should the metric be 100 cases per day? What if it's 200 per day in a month's time but new hospitalisations have dropped to nothing?
It will depend on how many people and from what groups have been vaccinated, and how long it's been since their first dose.
Considering the evidence we have so far, that the vaccines stop both virus severity and it's ability to spread, the most likely outcome is that we will see all of these metrics start going down at the same time. At that point it will become clear that it is safe to start reopening the economy.0 -
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All the data showa that the vaccine are working brilliantly.
Just seen a report on the BBC saying care home deaths have fallen dramatically.
Also in Israel it wotking brilliantly.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-says-vaccine-dramatically-effective-prevents-98-9-of-covid-deaths/Officials hail ‘dramatically’ effective Pfizer shots; two weeks after second dose, vaccine also 99.2% protective against serious illness, reduces chance of hospitalization by 98.9%
The only thing holding us back os supply.0
This discussion has been closed.
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