When will it all end?

bucketybuck

HansKroenke wrote: »

Spoof merchant. Have you heard of the word context before?

He quoted this recently in his own thread about the age profiles:

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Via a usually reliable poster on the Reddit Ireland daily thread

That's the 3rd person in the 0-24 range to die out of ~47,000 cases in that group.

So a rate of 1 death per 15,000-16,000 cases and that's only confirmed cases so the real ratio is probably even better than that.

I wouldn't be too concerned, it's a massive outlier.

So he knew full well the context when he made that post.

Micky 32

johnire wrote: »

Aren't there some thoroughly nasty people who contribute to this particular forum?

Yeah especially when they are hoping the lockdowns keep continuing for a long time.

MOR316

johnire wrote: »

Aren't there some thoroughly nasty people who contribute to this particular forum?

The Concern ads on TV...All the children who dies in third world countries, grieving mothers...

Do you give monthly donations as they ask for on those ads?

Plumbthedepths

johnire wrote: »

Aren't there some thoroughly nasty people who contribute to this particular forum?

Being here is a choice, you get that right?

Monster249

MOR316 wrote: »

The Concern ads on TV...All the children who dies in third world countries, grieving mothers...

Do you give monthly donations as they ask for on those ads?

Hundreds of people are also likely going to die prematurely due to suicide/delayed medical procedures because of this lockdown yet one unfortunate premature death of a 16 year old is enough for him to put the blinders on, hilariously ridiculous

Break80

DATA NOT DATES.

Total Deaths 2016. 30,667.
2017. 30,418
2018, 31,140
2019. 31,134

The figure of 22,416 for 2020 is from Jan to Oct adding 20% for unreported deaths which can take up to 3 months.
Total Deaths to Oct 2020 26,899.

Figures don't lie people.

Silentcorner

Break80 wrote: »

DATA NOT DATES.

Total Deaths 2016. 30,667.
2017. 30,418
2018, 31,140
2019. 31,134

The figure of 22,416 for 2020 is from Jan to Oct adding 20% for unreported deaths which can take up to 3 months.
Total Deaths to Oct 2020 26,899.

Figures don't lie people.

Over the 12 months of lockdown, we could easily see

Deaths down on previous years
Hospital bed occupancy down on previous years

For that we will have

Excess deaths in the next 2-3 years for two reasons*
Huge pressure on health system to catch up on all the missed screenings/treatments.
Mental health Crisis (Social isolation plus the effect of economic carnage)
A surge in Developmental issues in the young.
A surge in anxiety issues in our elderly population

Each level of restrictions brings further deeper social and economic issues

We took the most severe route in Europe.

I wonder, will the hardened lock downers be hailing Tony in a few years?

*We have only prolonged the life of people who are past the life expectancy in this country, what happens after a soft flu season is we get a much deadlier flu season at some stage...not comparing Covid to a soft flu season.

WE will see a surge in excess death across all age groups as a direct impact of lock downs and lack of health care for deadly diseases like Cancer and Heart disease.

Jinglejangle69

Break80 wrote: »

DATA NOT DATES.

Total Deaths 2016. 30,667.
2017. 30,418
2018, 31,140
2019. 31,134

The figure of 22,416 for 2020 is from Jan to Oct adding 20% for unreported deaths which can take up to 3 months.
Total Deaths to Oct 2020 26,899.

Figures don't lie people.

What does this say in relation to Covid?

Chomper.

It's like the walking dead out there when I'm out

The state of some people now

Must be terrible stuff going on in some homes , I know of one case

drunkmonkey

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Did you know a 16 year old died in 2019 of the flu in Ireland?

Only found that out tonight.

Unfortunately it seems viruses have and will always kill people of all ages and covid will be no different.

The leaflet our kids had to bring home last year published by the HSE encouraging us to get them the flu jab stated 4 children under 12 die from the flu every year.
If you read this article the HSE wouldn't release the number but said it was under 5 children that died in 2018 flu season.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/healthy-children-were-among-the-222-killed-by-flu-in-winter-season-37103120.html
One is too many but we need to keep things in context of previous years.

I'd like to know what medical intervention was given to that 16yr old before they ended up in hospital as I fear this is where we are going wrong with the whole test, isolate route when there are drugs available to prevent hospitalizations which are probably not being used by anyone except a few rouge doctors.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

Over the 12 months of lockdown, we could easily see

Deaths down on previous years
Hospital bed occupancy down on previous years

For that we will have

Excess deaths in the next 2-3 years for two reasons*
Huge pressure on health system to catch up on all the missed screenings/treatments.
Mental health Crisis (Social isolation plus the effect of economic carnage)
A surge in Developmental issues in the young.
A surge in anxiety issues in our elderly population

Each level of restrictions brings further deeper social and economic issues

We took the most severe route in Europe.

I wonder, will the hardened lock downers be hailing Tony in a few years?

*We have only prolonged the life of people who are past the life expectancy in this country, what happens after a soft flu season is we get a much deadlier flu season at some stage...not comparing Covid to a soft flu season.

WE will see a surge in excess death across all age groups as a direct impact of lock downs and lack of health care for deadly diseases like Cancer and Heart disease.

Unfortunately I think you are right, this lockdown we are having right now, along with the cumulative effect of the other ones won’t be good. Any sensible reasonable people/ politicians would be giving people hope as in firm dates for reopening like we had before. This would give people hope and something to aim for. There surely has to be some sane decent people still left.

douglashyde

I don't think anyone would argue that COVID causes more deaths than the flu in the absolute amount as it impacts older people more severely. I also don't think it's disrespectful to someone who dies to acknowledge if they were an outlier.

There's a public debate that's needs to happen across the world right now. We need to disconnect ourselves from the emotion of it all and truly look at the cost/benefit of lockdowns. Livelihoods, other health issues, happiness and arguably as a society our freedom has been comprised vs. saving a certain number of lives (or perhaps a better measure is years of life). A cold but hard fact is that a 20 year olds life is more important than my life at 31 and my life is more important than an 84 year olds.

Oberkon

bells of shandon wrote: »

I hope the Lockdown keeps going for a long time. I am at home and still getting paid as I am a Civil servant,
This break on full pay and recent 1% payrise is a deserved break from my usual long traffic journey each day into the centre of Dublin.
I have had time to re-decorate and do all the outstanding little jobs around the house.
I am kept busy in the garden with the planting season upon us, and look forward to a good crop of spuds this year.
I have a long list of books on my 'must read' list,so no chance of getting bored.
Cannot understand people complaining of boredom and stress.
Creativity is the secret of attaining peace of mind,

Ah here - get outta that garden,.

ILoveYourVibes

Im hoping it will be much better by this time next year ....HOPING

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/br/b-cdc/covid-19deathsandcasesseries24/

Actual data folks.

Please read and digest to get proper perspective.

Median age of death from covid is 83, numbers under 65 are low, young kids and teenagers almost non existent. Huge weighting towards those dieing with significant underlying conditions.

Forget the daily news streams and briefings, take sometime and read the data for yourself. Absolutely loads in this CSO data and it really isn't very scary and puts this whole thing into perspective.

No one likes to hear of anyone dieing but we all die. We have no idea was this poor 16 year old chronically ill and then they caught covid or were they just extremely unlucky and reacted badly as we get every winter with infant and child flu deaths, so it is pointless speculating. We are in a hysterical state at the moment.

Kids and young people die every year from a multitude of nasty things, having been involved with work in Temple Street and Crumlin I have seen horribly ill kids and it is just awful but it's life.

Read the CSO data - this is not a dangerous virus for children or young adults or the middle aged. Yes the older and frail need to be more concerned especially as they move in the 80's and 90's and older.

Please read data, put things in context and perspective and stop the hysteria.

Risteard81

douglashyde wrote: »

arguably as a society our freedom has been comprised

In no way can it be said that it's arguable that our freedom has been compromised. It is an incontrovertible fact that we have been enslaved. These totalitarian acts are an affront to the Republic proclaimed in arms at Easter 1916, and to all of the Peoples of the world. It is my considered opinion that those responsible must be prosecuted for Treason.

Kunta Kinte

Risteard81 wrote: »

In no way can it be said that it's arguable that our freedom has been compromised. It is an incontrovertible fact that we have been enslaved. These totalitarian acts are an affront to the Republic proclaimed in arms at Easter 1916, and to all of the Peoples of the world. It is my considered opinion that those responsible must be prosecuted for Treason.

"It is an incontrovertible fact that we have been enslaved?" "It is your considered opinion that those responsible must be prosecuted for Treason?"

Riiiiiiiiight..................:rolleyes:

A piece of advice for you. You should stop taking the drugs and stop listening to the boys from the North. They are badly affecting you.

ingo1984

SheepsClothing wrote: »

What's bad form is downplaying of the death of a sixteen year old, by pushing out doom monger rhetoric about teen suicides caused by lockdown without a shred of evidence of any such phenomenon.

Just from personal experience I've lost 6 friends through suicide since March 2020.

Friends/relatives/work colleagues that I know of who've tested positive for Covid, zero.

New2Dubs

ingo1984 wrote: »

Just from personal experience I've lost 6 friends through suicide since March 2020.

Friends/relatives/work colleagues that I know of who've tested positive for Covid, zero.

I am truly for your losses.

Wanderer78

ingo1984 wrote:

Just from personal experience I've lost 6 friends through suicide since March 2020.

I'm truly sorry, it's been a horrendous winter, the government has no clue how to deal with mental health issues, and our mental health minister is a fcuking disaster

Frilly Knickers

Findings from the Irish human rights commission

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1199178/

karlitob

douglashyde wrote: »

A cold but hard fact is that a 20 year olds life is more important than my life at 31 and my life is more important than an 84 year olds.

No it’s not a cold hard fact. It’s your opinion - and a stupid one in my view.

No one gets to decide who’s life is more important than anyone else’s especially based on something as arbitrary as age. You wouldn’t say the same thing but swap out age for gender, race or sexual orientation.

That’s truly a disgusting comment. I know plenty of 20 year olds who aren’t worth a **** to society. I know loads of 30 year olds who have children and care for their parents; who have responsible jobs that help other people day in day out. I know a number of 30 year olds who still live at home and contribute nothing to no one. And I know loads of 20 years who despite hardships in life have become fine upstanding citizens who enrich the lives of others around them.


But some la-loo on boards thinks their life is worth more than someone else - who you know nothing about - based on age.

seansouth36

Risteard81 wrote: »

In no way can it be said that it's arguable that our freedom has been compromised. It is an incontrovertible fact that we have been enslaved. These totalitarian acts are an affront to the Republic proclaimed in arms at Easter 1916, and to all of the Peoples of the world. It is my considered opinion that those responsible must be prosecuted for Treason.

You clearly don't know what quite a few words in the English language actually mean (enslaved/totalitarian/considered). Having actually been to a few totalitarian states, I can tell you that you aren't usually allowed through police checkpoints by keeping a bag of groceries on the back seat. But your attitude is that of a child who's not allowed out to play. Grow up, or better still, maybe buy a dictionary.

El_Duderino 09

Hector Savage wrote: »

Wait ... even after full vaccination they still want to have restrictions ?

So basically this is going to last forever ?

Who said we’ll get to full vaccination? I haven’t heard anyone suggest we’ll get to full vaccination, have you?

I know we have some anti (coved) vaxers. People who think they’re far too clever to take the vaccine. We have others who will not get their children vaccinated.

So if we get 90% of the population to take the vaccine which is 90% effective then we have 81% community immunity. That’s great but we don’t know if that’s enough to prevent further outbreaks, particularly next winter. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t. And I presume that’s why they aren’t ruling out any further restrictions - because they can’t.

Chomper.

90% will take a while

Vaccines passports etc will bring it up.

Governments don't want to talk about passports, spineless thinking of votes

El_Duderino 09

Chomper. wrote: »

90% will take a while

Vaccines passports etc will bring it up.

Governments don't want to talk about passports, spineless thinking of votes

I think they should be planning for various vaccine passports. But they stand to gain little by announcing anything at the moment. Loads of people are they types who might take the vaccine but would refuse to take it if they think the big bad government is forcing them to take it.

I think they should carry on with the vaccination and get all the people who are willing to go ahead and get it. And then bring in the passport later to encourage more people to get the finger out and take the vaccine.

I agree that it might be easy to get to 70% but actually getting to 90% could be very difficult. Once restrictions are relaxed and things feel more normal then we’ll get the “shur, if other people get it why do I need to get it?” attitude. And then there will be people who think they’re being clever by not getting their children vaccinated.

I really think it’ll be easy up to a point and then we’ll have to really chase people down to get them to take the vaccine. All the time they’re increasing the risk of further lockdowns and restrictions.

Ginger n Lemon

Frilly Knickers wrote: »

Findings from the Irish human rights commission

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1199178/

Ms Gibney said: "There is no human rights and equality expertise on NPHET. We believe there needs to be a new subgroup established to deal with human rights and equality and ethics.

"There is also no regulatory assessment being carried out at the moment. What that would normally allow for in normal times is some high level analysis of equality and rights impacts on any regulations that are being brought into effect."

Does anyone know how many fines relating to covid have actually been issued and how many of those have been paid?

the kelt

karlitob wrote: »

No it’s not a cold hard fact. It’s your opinion - and a stupid one in my view.

No one gets to decide who’s life is more important than anyone else’s especially based on something as arbitrary as age. You wouldn’t say the same thing but swap out age for gender, race or sexual orientation.

That’s truly a disgusting comment. I know plenty of 20 year olds who aren’t worth a **** to society. I know loads of 30 year olds who have children and care for their parents; who have responsible jobs that help other people day in day out. I know a number of 30 year olds who still live at home and contribute nothing to no one. And I know loads of 20 years who despite hardships in life have become fine upstanding citizens who enrich the lives of others around them.


But some la-loo on boards thinks their life is worth more than someone else - who you know nothing about - based on age.

You're right, no one gets to choose the importance of somebody's life based on age, based on anything really.

Nor is the importance of somebody's death to be based on what they died with or from!!

Tragically a 16 year old has died with COVID, it is seen as more tragic because of age, not more important but a young person dying with their whole life in front of them is generally seen as more tragic.

However what happened here was someone decided to use this death as some form of "gotcha" moment. "there ye go, gotcha, young people die aswell from COVID".

When it was pointed out that young people have been dying from other things such as suicide etc and that the cause of death of any person does not define the importance or signifigance of that death what followed flittered between deflection and even bizarrely attributing words and statements that werent even ther accusing people of saying people are dying from other things than COVID as "doom mongering"

This is the problem, this idea that all that matters is a COVID death and the simple fact of people dying from other things is just doom mongering.

The country needs to open its eyes and realise we have a huge crisis on our hands, the thing is when i say the words "huge crisis on our hands" i pretty much guarantee theres a huge group of people thinking "yeah its called COVID" and THATS the actual problem, COVID centric, COVID only.

For me personally i have a family friend that took their own life, just before Christmas leaving a wife and child behind. They referenced lockdown and COVID in the letter they left behind, they had other issues which meant whats going on whats so much harder on them but i wont go into it.

He didnt have COVID when he was tested, it was actually a contributory factor in his death or lockdown was to be more exact, but his death doesnt generate debate, doesn't matter as much it seems cos he didn't have COVID.

That needs to change imho.

AdamD

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Who said we’ll get to full vaccination? I haven’t heard anyone suggest we’ll get to full vaccination, have you?

I know we have some anti (coved) vaxers. People who think they’re far too clever to take the vaccine. We have others who will not get their children vaccinated.

So if we get 90% of the population to take the vaccine which is 90% effective then we have 81% community immunity. That’s great but we don’t know if that’s enough to prevent further outbreaks, particularly next winter. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t. And I presume that’s why they aren’t ruling out any further restrictions - because they can’t.

If we had 81% of the population vaccinated surely any outbreak would be negligable and a lockdown would be an absolutely disproportional response.


If a vaccine were to not get us back to normal, we move on anyway, because the alternative simply isn't feasible.

Chomper.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think they should be planning for various vaccine passports. But they stand to gain little by announcing anything at the moment. Loads of people are they types who might take the vaccine but would refuse to take it if they think the big bad government is forcing them to take it.

I think they should carry on with the vaccination and get all the people who are willing to go ahead and get it. And then bring in the passport later to encourage more people to get the finger out and take the vaccine.

I agree that it might be easy to get to 70% but actually getting to 90% could be very difficult. Once restrictions are relaxed and things feel more normal then we’ll get the “shur, if other people get it why do I need to get it?” attitude. And then there will be people who think they’re being clever by not getting their children vaccinated.

I really think it’ll be easy up to a point and then we’ll have to really chase people down to get them to take the vaccine. All the time they’re increasing the risk of further lockdowns and restrictions.

The passport will mop up the no-vaxxers

I mean they're basically selfish so they will selfishly take the vaccine to get the passport

It's that simple imo