When will it all end?

Irish Stones

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I am with OP.

I dont know anyone who is enthusiastic about hiding their faces or sitting at home or doing staycations for rest of their lives.

I never said what you say, I said that it just won't be the normal we know, it'll be a different normal. We'll have to adapt to this new normal, and forget what it was.
We'll be out and travelling, we'll be seeing the world and going to Mars as well, but not with the habits we had before.

Chomper.

Irish Stones wrote: »

The last big pandemic didn't see any restriction as we know them today, life was business as usual, no vaccines, no passports, probably no masks either. People kept living their life, enjoying, moving, working. The pandemic ended on its own.
What's the difference with today's pandemic?

Media Hysteria and Spineless Government

Unwillingness to accept death as part of life

Inadequate Health Systems

That's part of it, anyhow I want out of this and the anti-vaxxers can feck off

El_Duderino 09

Chomper. wrote: »

To get more people to take the vaccine

What would the vaccine passport do? What would it say and what benefits would it confer?

Irish Stones

gmisk wrote: »

Is that h1n1? Or what but of a difference in first year I think deaths were 100-400k?

I'm not too familiar with strains names, but Wikipedia says it was A/H2N2, and the death count, at the end of it, was a couple of millions.

Ginger n Lemon

Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine found to be 94% effective in real-world study

Peer-reviewed study of 1.2m people in Israel suggests effectiveness against UK variant

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-found-to-be-94-effective-in-real-world-study-1.4494826

Great weather. Good news.

Can it get any better? Someone tell Mehole that we are protected against the new virus :rolleyes:

Hector Savage

Scotty # wrote: »

Hector you can read the full text of the UK roadmap here > https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-response-spring-2021

They're not expecting to go into full lockdown every winter but they are warning that there may be a need for social distancing and masks during winter months. They also explain there may be a need for local lockdowns from time to time.

They expect full vaccination to result in a 75% drop in covid. Which unfortunately will still mean 30,000 deaths per year in the UK. I'm not sure how this compares to other diseases on a yearly basis.

Someone described it yesterday as UK Herd Immunity 2.0 and I think it's a good description. They're not trying to eradicate covid, they're trying to get to a place where they can live with it. It's probably going to take several years to iron out all the creases.

I don't believe it's as simple as 75% vaccinated, therfore 25% the amount of deaths.

Vast vast majority of deaths occur in vulnerable groups in which case they will be closer to 100% vaccination.

Chomper.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What would the vaccine passport do? What would it say and what benefits would it confer?

The vaccine passport is a tool to get the unwilling to take the vaccine, that's it's primary function

It's usefulness outside of that is secondary

slipperyox

Nobody knew WWII would go on for 5 years....

Irish Stones

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Can it get any better? Someone tell Mehole that we are protected against the new virus :rolleyes:

Yes, it can.
They could say that vaccine and recovery from the disease confer lifetime immunity and no spreading of the disease

Ginger n Lemon

Irish Stones wrote: »

I never said what you say, I said that it just won't be the normal we know, it'll be a different normal. We'll have to adapt to this new normal, and forget what it was.
We'll be out and travelling, we'll be seeing the world and going to Mars as well, but not with the habits we had before.

You keep repeating it.

I genuinely dont get it, 2 posters have already told you that whatever "effort" you can observe now will be dropped, in fairness good few lads in my Aldi have already dropped lol.

But you keep insisting we will be adapting to new normal?

gmisk

Irish Stones wrote: »

I'm not too familiar with strains names, but Wikipedia says it was A/H2N2, and the death count, at the end of it, was a couple of millions.

That was errr 60 plus years ago though?

I would hope we would respond slightly better now to something similar..

Milder pandemics occurred subsequently in 1957–1958 (the "Asian Flu" caused by an A(H2N2) virus)

El_Duderino 09

AdamD wrote: »

I understood, good to see you're still condescending as ever.

81% of people will be highly unlikely to spread it, that massively reduces the chance of any outbreak happening. What does the R number go to if 8/10 people can't even pass it on? The chain would break at so many points. Especially if you consider cases are likely to be at a low base, it seems fairly implausable to get exponential case growth with vaccine numbers that high.

Who said the 81% "can't even pass it on"? Sorry for being condescending/pointing out where you've misunderstood again, but you've misunderstood that. The preliminary research coming from Israel suggests that the vaccine curbs transmission by 75-90%, but nobody suggested that vaccinated people cant pass is on.

I don't claim to be as certain as you are. But the UK and Irish governments are certainly planning for the possibility of outbreaks and restrictions in the winter.

Irish Stones

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You keep repeating it.

I genuinely dont get it, 2 posters have already told you that whatever "effort" you can observe now will be dropped, in fairness good few lads in my Aldi have already dropped lol.

But you keep insisting we will be adapting to new normal?

What I mean, just for an example, is that we'll be retaining memory of what we've been through for years. Every now and then someone will be recalling this long episode of our life and we'll be re-living it even if you want to forget it.
I would like to forget this for good, but I know that I won't, and this makes my life not like it was.
Just for an example.
I hope you are right, but I keep thinking that we won't drop just everything!

Irish Stones

gmisk wrote: »

That was errr 60 plus years ago though?

I would hope we would respond slightly better now to something similar..

Milder pandemics occurred subsequently in 1957–1958 (the "Asian Flu" caused by an A(H2N2) virus)

Yes, that one.
Though it was nearly as deadly and infectious, from what I have read about it there were little limitations to the everyday life. No vaccines (maybe) and passports (for sure).

karlitob

the kelt wrote: »

You're right, no one gets to choose the importance of somebody's life based on age, based on anything really.

Nor is the importance of somebody's death to be based on what they died with or from!!

Tragically a 16 year old has died with COVID, it is seen as more tragic because of age, not more important but a young person dying with their whole life in front of them is generally seen as more tragic.

However what happened here was someone decided to use this death as some form of "gotcha" moment. "there ye go, gotcha, young people die aswell from COVID".

When it was pointed out that young people have been dying from other things such as suicide etc and that the cause of death of any person does not define the importance or signifigance of that death what followed flittered between deflection and even bizarrely attributing words and statements that werent even ther accusing people of saying people are dying from other things than COVID as "doom mongering"

This is the problem, this idea that all that matters is a COVID death and the simple fact of people dying from other things is just doom mongering.

The country needs to open its eyes and realise we have a huge crisis on our hands, the thing is when i say the words "huge crisis on our hands" i pretty much guarantee theres a huge group of people thinking "yeah its called COVID" and THATS the actual problem, COVID centric, COVID only.

For me personally i have a family friend that took their own life, just before Christmas leaving a wife and child behind. They referenced lockdown and COVID in the letter they left behind, they had other issues which meant whats going on whats so much harder on them but i wont go into it.

He didnt have COVID when he was tested, it was actually a contributory factor in his death or lockdown was to be more exact, but his death doesnt generate debate, doesn't matter as much it seems cos he didn't have COVID.

That needs to change imho.

That wasn’t my point or the context I was speaking to.


I understand the thrust of your point. This is an issue that is endemic in Ireland that covid has unmasked. Single issue groups focus on their needs rather than in the context of everyone else. Cervical check, Orkambi for CF etc. Those who shout loudest - and who can advocate for themselves on a single issue - will be listened to and responded to than those who cannot.

I don’t agree that suicide deaths in ireland doesn’t generate debate or matter as much as covid. I understand that you are close to this but it’s not fair to say that.

There are no simple solutions to complex questions. The management of a global pandemic is complex. The management of suicide ideation is also complex. I do not have the answers. Just I’ll informed opinions based on my viewpoint.

El_Duderino 09

Chomper. wrote: »

The vaccine passport is a tool to get the unwilling to take the vaccine, that's it's primary function

It's usefulness outside of that is secondary

I get the purpose behind it. That's established. It's to encourage people to take the vaccine.

How will it encourage people to take he vaccine?

Ginger n Lemon

Irish Stones wrote: »

What I mean, just for an example, is that we'll be retaining memory of what we've been through for years. Every now and then someone will be recalling this long episode of our life and we'll be re-living it even if you want to forget it.
I would like to forget this for good, but I know that I won't, and this makes my life not like it was.
Just for an example.
I hope you are right, but I keep thinking that we won't drop just everything!

Well my real life experience is when I go outside for a walk I see people who have already forgotten covid. I dont see any1 wearing a mask outdoors. I dont see any1 socially distancing outdoors. I see 20 + children playin in playgrounds with their parents chatting very close to each other. And these people havent gotten their vaccine..

It will live long in our memories you are right, but not necessarily because theres a lot of horror or fear, but rather just thoughts of whether we should have done something different and could have done something different. So feelings of regret really, not horror.

bucketybuck

Scotty # wrote: »

Very foolish of them. Gardai already successfully objected to licence renewal on at least one premises in Dublin.

All they're going to achieve is a longer lockdown for the rest of us and possibly lose their licence.

What use is a license to a pub that has already gone bust?

Because that will be the logic for a lot of businesses soon, open up or die.

gmisk

Irish Stones wrote: »

Yes, that one.
Though it was nearly as deadly and infectious, from what I have read about it there were little limitations to the everyday life. No vaccines (maybe) and passports (for sure).

It was 60 plus years ago?....

So yeah the response would be slightly different if something similarly happened today....you would hope....medical treatments, public health etc has changed massively since then, as has travel, including international travel.

Ginger n Lemon

Actually, now that I think about, people cutting their own hair at home is definitely something that is likely to stay with us for a while. Irish Stones was correct at something

Potentially more takeaways than eating out? idk. I think people who loved eating out pre covid will quickly flood the restaurants once they reopen still.

bucketybuck

The ironic thing when people talk about the new normal, is that measures such as wearing masks and regularly washing hands could easily have become cultural norms...

...if the government had not abused peoples trust to the point where they will now reject all such measures as part of a wider rejection of the "message".

This government really have shown such little understanding of human nature throughout this entire saga.

Ginger n Lemon

bucketybuck wrote: »

The ironic thing when people talk about the new normal, is that measures such as wearing masks and regularly washing hands could easily have become cultural norms...

...if the government had not abused peoples trust to the point where they will now reject all such measures as part of a wider rejection of the "message".

This government really have shown such little understanding of human nature throughout this entire saga.

Spot on. Constant advertisement of cases and deaths doesnt really help either.

Back in the 80s and 90s they were running ads in UK showing bad sides of smoking. Cancers etc. These ads were quite frequent, what happened in the end actually is that most people watching TV switched the channel immediately as it wasnt a nice viewing. Morale of the story - if you keep pumping negative people eventually quickly switch off and ignore it completely. This is where Ireland is now with all things covid.

Chomper.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I get the purpose behind it. That's established. It's to encourage people to take the vaccine.

How will it encourage people to take he vaccine?

The idea is that people take the vaccine and get the passport


If they don't take the vaccine they face restrictions

The passport gets them entry to a n other,. foreign travel etc etc

Stadiums, nightclubs you name it, lots of possibilities

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Cant. I am going to a protest at St Green at 2 O clock on a Saturday.

One of those where you want to do something and then you cant, I have freedoms to protest for.

Well, one of your issues was that you can't see your parents. You only saw them once last year, if I remember your post correctly.
So, perhaps they are not as much of a priority as you made out.......

gmisk

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Spot on. Constant advertisement of cases and deaths doesnt really help either.

Back in the 80s and 90s they were running ads in UK showing bad sides of smoking. Cancers etc. These ads were quite frequent, what happened in the end actually is that most people watching TV switched the channel immediately as it wasnt a nice viewing. Morale of the story - if you keep pumping negative people eventually quickly switch off and ignore it completely. This is where Ireland is now with all things covid.

I don't honestly think the two are remotely comparable. In the 80s and 90s people had very little choice in general TV wise etc now they can switch to hundreds of other stations if they don't like it.

Arguably the anti smoking advertising worked and continues to work.
I think it's down at about 17 percent of adult population in Ireland and dropping.

Covid will pass, and the numbers etc won't be in news bulletins.

El_Duderino 09

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Spot on. Constant advertisement of cases and deaths doesnt really help either.

Back in the 80s and 90s they were running ads in UK showing bad sides of smoking. Cancers etc. These ads were quite frequent, what happened in the end actually is that most people watching TV switched the channel immediately as it wasnt a nice viewing. Morale of the story - if you keep pumping negative people eventually quickly switch off and ignore it completely. This is where Ireland is now with all things covid.

So what do you do? Only tell the good news and shy away from any bad news in case some people switch off? Not talk about how there could be restrictions in winter if things don't go to plan?

Ginger n Lemon

gmisk wrote: »

I don't honestly think the two are remotely comparable. In the 80s and 90s people had very little choice in general TV wise etc now they can switch to hundreds of other stations if they don't like it.

Arguably the anti smoking advertising worked and continues to work.
I think it's down at about 17 percent of adult population in Ireland and dropping.

Covid will pass, and the numbers etc won't be in news bulletins.

You are backing up my point - they didnt have much to switch to yet still switched to whatever else, very quickly.

People genuinely dont like bad news or worrying news or concerning news told to them every day.

They are very comparable as the message gets ignored very quickly in the end.

Smoking decreasing may have something to do with the cost of smoking that, especially given latest economic circumstances, is prohibitively high. But it is good news no doubt.

Multipass

Chomper. wrote: »

The idea is that people take the vaccine and get the passport


If they don't take the vaccine they face restrictions

The passport gets them entry to a n other,. foreign travel etc etc

Stadiums, nightclubs you name, lots of possibilities

I'm all for it if it gets us out of this mess

I’m in no way anti-vax, and I’ll take it whenever it’s offered to help with herd immunity (I’m not bothered a bit about my personal immunity). But the idea of a health passport is horrific, and so is the fact that people will support it for the reason in bold. We’re having our arms twisted into accepting things that no free society should accept.

Ginger n Lemon

Multipass wrote: »

I’m in no way anti-vax, and I’ll take it whenever it’s offered to help with herd immunity (I’m not bothered a bit about my personal immunity). But the idea of a health passport is horrific, and so is the fact that people will support it for the reason in bold. We’re having our arms twisted into accepting things that no free society should accept.

It is quite bizarre to imagine that to walk around Aldi you'd need a health passport.

Or going for a meal in a restaurant.

Most importantly, who will be checking this? I dont see any business employing extra staff to check health passports lol. This is time consuming and in the long run will reduce amount of business they do as instead of allowing customers in to shop they instead get a big queue going with "checks"

Chomper.

Multipass wrote: »

I’m in no way anti-vax, and I’ll take it whenever it’s offered to help with herd immunity (I’m not bothered a bit about my personal immunity). But the idea of a health passport is horrific, and so is the fact that people will support it for the reason in bold. We’re having our arms twisted into accepting things that no free society should accept.

I had amended my post, I was probably hasty saying I'm all for it


I think it's inevitable, but like you say we may be agreeing to something we shouldn't

Could be the thin end of a wedge

Might end up with recurring restrictions on top of passports