When will it all end?

OwenM

Probes wrote: »

How is it unstoppable, he gets put in jail and it's stopped.

There are very valid reasons to keep the virus numbers low whilst we vaccinate, the most important reason being that we don't want to have large numbers going round and risk someone who is vaccinated being infected and a mutation occurring that allows for vaccine escape. So I sympathise if they aren't getting the support hey need from the government, but if everyone opens up then it puts as all at risk of going back to square one, that's why we have to be careful and move forward based on the numbers and not dates.

Can't put everyone in jail.

gmisk

OwenM wrote: »

Can't put everyone in jail.

You are not going to need to....
The vast majority will adhere to the law when it comes to opening shops/restaurants etc...the couple that won't will be fined/arrested

Hector Savage

gmisk wrote: »

I sincerely doubt you will need a "health passport" to walk around an Aldi....
To get on a plane though? I would say pretty likely.
Iceland etc already heading that way.
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/vaccination-passports-what-are-the-pros-and-cons-and-will-we-have-to-use-them-1.4486265

I don't mind that idea at all, what I worry about is that aswel as the vaccines we will need to fork out €100 each way for a PCR test , even also stay in a quarantine hotel ...

W123-80's

titan18 wrote: »

Germany seem one of the more cautious but even they're not as bad as us. They're reopening hair dressers for one on the 1st of March as they consider it a safe activity. Every country is rolling out a vaccination program but our restrictions are heavier than all the others, and a lot heavier than some places.

Yip, and Germany don't have a 5km travel restriction either.
I'm well aware we have stricter restrictions than other countries.
It is my opinion that we have stricter restrictions because we started 2021 as the most infected country on the planet and urgently needed to address that situation.

We are now working through that process of reducing numbers and it will be reviewed on March 5th. There may or may not be some easing of restriction on March 5th, that will be dependent on case numbers/ICU's etc. If there is some easing of restrictions that is very positive progress.
Bars, restaurants etc are still closed in Germany,

Either way, we will not be far behind the UK, Germany, and any other country you care to name by the end of the summer. Assuming vaccines are effective and variants don't screw things up.

We are nearly there.

Silentcorner

W123-80's wrote: »

Yip, and Germany don't have a 5km travel restriction either.
I'm well aware we have stricter restrictions than other countries.
It is my opinion that we have stricter restrictions because we started 2021 as the most infected country on the planet and urgently needed to address that situation.

We are now working through that process of reducing numbers and it will be reviewed on March 5th. There may or may not be some easing of restriction on March 5th, that will be dependent on case numbers/ICU's etc. If there is some easing of restrictions that is very positive progress.
Bars, restaurants etc are still closed in Germany,

Either way, we will not be far behind the UK, Germany, and any other country you care to name by the end of the summer. Assuming vaccines are effective and variants don't screw things up.

We are nearly there.

We have had one of the strictest lock down in terms of a combination of severity and length on the planet...so how did we end up this the highest infection rate in the world, we weren't even catching half of the infections in Jan?

What does that say about severe lockdowns?

Micky 32

Irish Stones wrote: »

How is that no passports were required for the past pandemics?

Irish Stones wrote: »

I appreciate your attempts to make people happier by saying that things will get back to normal, but we all know that it won't be the "old" normal, it'll be a "new" normal, because certain traces of what we are living now will be carried forward forever, and hence the future will be different than what we used to know.

You must like contradicting yourself.

Samsonsmasher

https://m.independent.ie/news/businesses-urged-to-hold-firm-and-save-lives-amid-campaign-to-flout-rules-40128278.html

Varadkar and co are in panic mode now!

A sunny weekend is forecast and parks and beauty spots will be JAMMED again

People are openly breaking the 5km rule.

It will soon be over!

El_Duderino 09

Silentcorner wrote: »

We have had one of the strictest lock down in terms of a combination of severity and length on the planet...so how did we end up this the highest infection rate in the world, we weren't even catching half of the infections in Jan?

What does that say about severe lockdowns?

that some countries adhered to social distancing, whether enforced or not, better than others? And that Ireland in particular, didn't adhere to distancing over Christmas.

What do you think?

Silentcorner

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/news/businesses-urged-to-hold-firm-and-save-lives-amid-campaign-to-flout-rules-40128278.html

Varadkar and co are in panic mode now!

A sunny weekend is forecast and parks and beauty spots will be JAMMED again

People are openly breaking the 5km rule.

It will soon be over!

You have to laugh at the indo..."The Far Right"...if there was a far right they'd be loving this police state!!!!

They must think their readers are complete morons!!!

The Government got a spanking in the Parlimentary meetings, this week, that is the beginning of the end...the back benchers know what is coming.

Silentcorner

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

that some countries adhered to social distancing, whether enforced or not, better than others? And that Ireland in particular, didn't adhere to distancing over Christmas.

What do you think?

So one of the strictest lock downs on the planet isn't enough for you...you think we should have had the strictest!

Lock downs do not prevent infections is what I think....it's beyond obvious to any reasonable individual at this point.

Restrictions are necessary, severe lock downs aren't.

franciscanpunk

Probes wrote: »

How is it unstoppable, he gets put in jail and it's stopped.

There are very valid reasons to keep the virus numbers low whilst we vaccinate, the most important reason being that we don't want to have large numbers going round and risk someone who is vaccinated being infected and a mutation occurring that allows for vaccine escape. So I sympathise if they aren't getting the support hey need from the government, but if everyone opens up then it puts as all at risk of going back to square one, that's why we have to be careful and move forward based on the numbers and not dates.

There is defintely an element i agree with here but in terms of variants, the virus has and will continue to mutate so dont think we can close everywhere based on that alone.

The businesses have never been told though the plan is to stay closed based on vaccinations being rolled out. all they is some pathetic rubbish about we may or might ease a few restrictions in April and we'll see after that. That is no way to run a business with staff planning, suppliers, cash flow, etc. They need targeted dates and times to be told after x % are vaccinated this will open then after another 10% this will open, these will be the rules and after this date we expect all restrictions(outside foreign travel cos that is never going) to stop. like you say all about numbers and dates. Imagine in work you came up with a large scale project and said in 4 weeks we'll do step 1, the other 453 steps will look at them again.

i still don't have much hope for all business/jobs that are gone right now(apart from construction which cant stay closed long term) as the precedent set to date is no risk, any life lost to covid is a complete disaster and moee significant than a death from another cause. To reopen we will have to go against our actions to date

El_Duderino 09

Silentcorner wrote: »

So one of the strictest lock downs on the planet isn't enough for you...you think we should have had the strictest!

Lock downs do not prevent infections is what I think....it's beyond obvious to any reasonable individual at this point.

Restrictions are necessary, severe lock downs aren't.

I suppose the severity of the lockdown is relative to the compliance with restrictions. If people adhere to distancing while only being asked to do so then there might not need to be any further restrictions imposed or enforced. People often refer to Sweden as having achieved relatively good distancing without much need for restrictions. That's down to the people individually and collectively tending to distance.

Do you think Irish people kept self-imposed distance over the Christmas period? I don't think they did and I think that's why the virus spread so well over that period. Give out about the government all you want but people spread the virus to each other through our behaviour, not the government. We all have a good idea of how the virus spreads and we choose how to behave

Samsonsmasher

Silentcorner wrote: »

You have to laugh at the indo..."The Far Right"...if there was a far right they'd be loving this police state!!!!

They must think their readers are complete morons!!!

The Government got a spanking in the Parlimentary meetings, this week, that is the beginning of the end...the back benchers know what is coming.

Polls show support for the government is cratering. This is shaping up to be an unprecedented disaster. Between now and March 17th alone people will get bolder and business people will defy the government in greater number. A long way to the 4th of April!

The HSE and NPHET and the media will go all out on a fear campaign.

They have lost the public

Silentcorner

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I suppose the severity of the lockdown is relative to the compliance with restrictions. If people adhere to distancing while only being asked to do so then there might not need to beany further restrictions imposed or enforced. People often refer to Sweden as having achieved distancing without much need for restrictions. That's down to the people individually and collectively tending to distance.

Do you think Irish people kept self-imposed distance over the Christmas period? I don't think they did and I think that's why the virus spread so well over that period.

No the severity of the lock down is the direct responsibility of the elected Government.

I don't know how people aren't getting this...since the beginning of this, we have subjected our people to one of the strictest, most inhumane, anti science Lock downs on the planet...and we still ended up with the highest infection rate in Jan...

And you want to blame the people?

I'm lost for words!!!

W123-80's

Silentcorner wrote: »

We have had one of the strictest lock down in terms of a combination of severity and length on the planet...so how did we end up this the highest infection rate in the world, we weren't even catching half of the infections in Jan?

What does that say about severe lockdowns?

I think the opening up at Christmas coupled with the UK variant entering the country at the same time is probably the largest contributing factor to ending up with the unenviable title of worlds most covid affected country.

This article would be funny if it wasn't true. People handing pints out windows while the hotel owner goes on record saying all regulations were adhered to..:pac:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/how-did-a-remote-mayo-town-become-ireland-s-most-covid-infected-place-1.4465431

"The hotel owner, Eamon Padden, says the 2020 Christmas season was rather quiet compared to other years.
“Our hotel wouldn’t have been busy,” he told The Irish Times. “We were open only three or four days . . it [the hotel wasn’t any busier than normal. Everything was carried out [according] to the Covid rules. We had security and all.”

“There was four of five hundred people there,” said this person. “The bar was full, the foyer was full, the back bar was full, the restaurant was full. Very few masks.

“Personnel were overpowered with it; they couldn’t do anything; the guards came and cleared people out but they couldn’t clear people out that were staying there.”

“The staff weren’t letting them in,” he said, “but they got in through windows and drink was also being handed out through windows to people outside.”

Nothing to see here folks. Lol!

I fully appreciate that is an isolated incident and I am not for a second suggesting that is how everyone behaved. It is however an unfortunate example of how selfish behavior and opening up at the wrong time can be devastating to a community and the wider population.

We need to continue to suppress the case numbers whilst ramping up the vaccination roll out.
Once vaccines are effective and variants don't mess things up we are going to get through this.

the kelt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I suppose the severity of the lockdown is relative to the compliance with restrictions. If people adhere to distancing while only being asked to do so then there might not need to be any further restrictions imposed or enforced. People often refer to Sweden as having achieved relatively good distancing without much need for restrictions. That's down to the people individually and collectively tending to distance.

Do you think Irish people kept self-imposed distance over the Christmas period? I don't think they did and I think that's why the virus spread so well over that period. Give out about the government all you want but people spread the virus to each other through our behaviour, not the government. We all have a good idea of how the virus spreads and we choose how to behave

Is suppose there’s evidence to back up this self flagellation idea that thick paddy just doesn’t just obey rules the same as other countries?

What is it in our psyche that compels us this way, “we deserve to be punished cos we just weren’t good enough compared to them others” is it a hang up from being beaten down by 800 years of oppression followed by freedom only to hand the country over to the Catholic Church to run?

Allinall

Silentcorner wrote: »

No the severity of the lock down is the direct responsibility of the elected Government.

I don't know how people aren't getting this...since the beginning of this, we have subjected our people to one of the strictest, most inhumane, anti science Lock downs on the planet...and we still ended up with the highest infection rate in Jan...

And you want to blame the people?

I'm lost for words!!!

It's the people that spread the virus.

batman_oh

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I suppose the severity of the lockdown is relative to the compliance with restrictions. If people adhere to distancing while only being asked to do so then there might not need to be any further restrictions imposed or enforced. People often refer to Sweden as having achieved relatively good distancing without much need for restrictions. That's down to the people individually and collectively tending to distance.

Do you think Irish people kept self-imposed distance over the Christmas period? I don't think they did and I think that's why the virus spread so well over that period. Give out about the government all you want but people spread the virus to each other through our behaviour, not the government. We all have a good idea of how the virus spreads and we choose how to behave

Yep, it's all the fault of Christmas and the horrible Irish. The government have handled it all perfectly and the restrictions are deserved.
You do remember them only opening things for a 3 week period before Christmas, while telling people to enjoy it and then saying they will be going back into restrictions afterwards?
Horrible Irish people actually going and doing something in the 3 week respite they got during months of misery. Oh and ignore the not bothering to restrict any of the movement into the country from the UK and Brazil etc so we could have some new strains. That was the fault of the bold children too!

El_Duderino 09

Silentcorner wrote: »

No the severity of the lock down is the direct responsibility of the elected Government.

I don't know how people aren't getting this...since the beginning of this, we have subjected our people to one of the strictest, most inhumane, anti science Lock downs on the planet...and we still ended up with the highest infection rate in Jan...

And you want to blame the people?

I'm lost for words!!!

Yeah the government impose restrictions (obviously). But they severity of the lockdowns are correlated to the spread of the virus, and people spread the virus through our own behaviour, not the government. To pretend you don't get that is a bit unbelievable.

Silentcorner

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Polls show support for the government is cratering. This is shaping up to be an unprecedented disaster. Between now and March 17th alone people will get bolder and business people will defy the government in greater number. A long way to the 4th of April!

The HSE and NPHET and the media will go all out on a fear campaign.

They have lost the public

I'm pulling this figure out of my a##e, but I'd put it at 20-30% and growing, and getting more vocal, I know there was a poll that suggested over 50% of people are unhappy but that would include the Zero Covid Anti Science headbangers.

El_Duderino 09

the kelt wrote: »

Is suppose there’s evidence to back up this self flagellation idea that thick paddy just doesn’t just obey rules the same as other countries?

What is it in our psyche that compels us this way, “we deserve to be punished cos we just weren’t good enough compared to them others” is it a hang up from being beaten down by 800 years of oppression followed by freedom only to hand the country over to the Catholic Church to run?

Yikes, you went straight for the colonialism route there.

I don't pretend to know why Irish people spread the virus so successfully over the christmas period. It's a pretty easy observation to say that we did. We ended up with the highest rate in the world just after Christmas and we didn't achieve that through self imposed distancing. That's my point - and it didn't mention "Paddy" or oppression or colonialism or the Catholic Church at all.

El_Duderino 09

batman_oh wrote: »

Yep, it's all the fault of Christmas and the horrible Irish. The government have handled it all perfectly and the restrictions are deserved.
You do remember them only opening things for a 3 week period before Christmas, while telling people to enjoy it and then saying they will be going back into restrictions afterwards?
Horrible Irish people actually going and doing something in the 3 week respite they got during months of misery. Oh and ignore the not bothering to restrict any of the movement into the country from the UK and Brazil etc so we could have some new strains. That was the fault of the bold children too!

Horrible Irish people? Where do you get such a low impression of Irish people?

The government didn't spread the virus, we spread it to each other through our behaviour. This shouldn't even be in dispute. Talk about wanting to blame someone else for what happened. People in Ireland coming into contact, choosing not to maintain distance, is what spread the virus. I don't need to think poorly of the Irish, call us "horrible" or oppressed or mention colonialism or the catholic church. It's just observation of what happened over the Christmas period.

the kelt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yikes, you went straight for the colonialism route there.

I don't pretend to know why Irish people spread the virus so successfully over the christmas period. It's a pretty easy observation to say that we did. We ended up with the highest rate in the world just after Christmas and we didn't achieve that through self imposed distancing. That's my point - and it didn't mention "Paddy" or oppression or colonialism or the Catholic Church at all.

Funny because the government keep saying we are in this mess because of this new variant but nah you still think its all down to the people not behaving themselves over Christmas

Your posting is basically "its all the peoples fault" nothing to do with new variant, the lack of proper test and trace, lack of quarantine measures etc, nah all the people.

Three cases of the new Brazil variant, peoples fault aswell i suppose. Do ye ever stop to think how are we one of the most locked down countries yet still not getting on top of this and think maybe its not ALL the fault of the people"

So ye seem obsessed with this idea of self flagellation above everything else, just curious as to why?

nsnoefc1878

batman_oh wrote: »

Yep, it's all the fault of Christmas and the horrible Irish. The government have handled it all perfectly and the restrictions are deserved.
You do remember them only opening things for a 3 week period before Christmas, while telling people to enjoy it and then saying they will be going back into restrictions afterwards?
Horrible Irish people actually going and doing something in the 3 week respite they got during months of misery. Oh and ignore the not bothering to restrict any of the movement into the country from the UK and Brazil etc so we could have some new strains. That was the fault of the bold children too!

Hear, hear.
They virtually told people to go wild for Christmas, infantilised the whole thing for weeks before hand with all this stupid talk of a 'meaningful' christmas, had their stooges in the media cheerleading for them to open up (Mark Paul the prime example), and have done absolutely nothing about people entering the country since day one.
We can argue all day over the merits/complexity of a complete border shutdown, but there is a huge amount of room to do something between a full border shutdown and the nothing the government have done in that regard.
I've no doubt that the fact Ryanair is an Irish company, and that gob****e has far too much influence here, is a huge reason why we've done absolutely nothing to guard against the virus arriving on planes.
We've virtually no tracing infrastructure to speak of, no doubt an attempt to penny pinch.
The government here have made an absolute bags of it, and it would be far worse if it werent for the fact we are an ultra compliant society.

nsnoefc1878

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah the government impose restrictions (obviously). But they severity of the lockdowns are correlated to the spread of the virus, and people spread the virus through our own behaviour, not the government. To pretend you don't get that is a bit unbelievable.

People behaved amazingly in the first lockdown, and were doing so again in the second one.
Their efforts were spat on by the reopening before Christmas.
You dont get endless chances to implement this type of restrictions in a a free society, simple as that. It is not North Korea. You get maybe 2 chances at best and you have to get those right, our government manifestly has not. So they essentially have no one to blame but themselves.

Allinall

nsnoefc1878 wrote: »

People behaved amazingly in the first lockdown, and were doing so again in the second one.
Their efforts were spat on by the reopening before Christmas.
You dont get endless chances to implement this type of restrictions in a a free society, simple as that. It is not North Korea. You get maybe 2 chances at best and you have to get those right, our government manifestly has not. So they essentially have no one to blame but themselves.

Was anyone forced to go out mingling over Christmas?

it was a mistake for the government to open thing up as much as they did, but that doesn't take from the fact that adherence to the remaining restrictions was vastly reduced, resulting in us being where we are today.

People need to take responsibility for their own actions, and stop looking for someone else to blame.

Silentcorner

Allinall wrote: »

It's the people that spread the virus.

That is like blaming the clouds for the rain.

There are a myriad of factors that impact the spread of the virus, many factors are not understood and will never be understood.

Trying to change human behavior is an extreme task, to do it in the most severe manner for a prolonged period is simply inhumane....especially when there is ample evidence that the policy is not justified.

It could be argued that changing human behavior is driving the mutations and variants we are now all supposed to be terrified of...but we know there are a myriad of factors that impact the nature of a virus.

gozunda

Irish Stones wrote: »

Well, over here in my country (Italy),

walking outdoors without a mask is illegal at the moment. A face mask is required always and everywhere when out of home.
Playgrounds are closed, so no children playing, no parents chatting. Schools are closed (mainly), so no children socializing at school either, nor parents waiting for them outside.
Non essential shops, restaurants and bars are closed, people aren't incentived to go outside.

I try not to think much about what's going on, but it is difficult when I go outside and see mask, or, in the attempt not to see them, I have to stay sat at home.
Sometimes I break the rules, and I have to confess that I shake some hands when I see that the person in front of me has the same light in their eyes.

....

That is the funny thing Stones. There are no regulations here mandating wearing masks outdoors here and yet we have a few posters who insist that people here without masks and exercising outdoors (which they are allowed to do) are proof positive that no one is observing restrictions here. It's little more than pure codology and rabblerousing tbh.

We had the same screaming for a rollback of restrictions before Christmas and we ended up having the highest rate of infection in the world - in no small part because of some who evidently didn't give a flying monkies / apparently dont believe that Covid is a problem / its all a big conspiracy etc etc

Unfortunately we have the same ****e starting again - with the same lot demanding that all restrictions are removed ASAP. I mean what could possibly go wrong eh?

Irish Stones

Micky 32 wrote: »

You must like contradicting yourself.

I'm sorry, I don't see it. Can you explain, please?

Scotty #

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The government didn't spread the virus, we spread it to each other through our behaviour. This shouldn't even be in dispute.

You are correct but I think the government must take some of the blame for things being so bad after Christmas. NPHET were pleading with them to shutdown in the days leading up to Christmas but they held off until the 26th.

I know, damned if they did and damned if they didn't but those few days cost us dearly.