When will it all end?

the kelt

Lantus wrote: »

I would like to see masks become mandatory over the winter season in all shops to help reduce flu and other coughs colds and sneezes. It's such an easy and simple thing to do.

Nah I’d go full lockdown every winter (and none of this 5k malarkey either, 200 metres and that’s it) I mean it’s a fool proof plan, don’t bother investing in hospitals and beds, nurses, doctors etc. Lockdown and then people don’t get sick and hospitals dont get busy.

Less flu, more jeruselmas!

Our new motto for winter 2021,22,23...

SnuggyBear

Lantus wrote: »

I would like to see masks become mandatory over the winter season in all shops to help reduce flu and other coughs colds and sneezes. It's such an easy and simple thing to do.

No thanks, I don't want any part of that future. I'll take my one cold a year.

El_Duderino 09

PTH2009 wrote: »

This fourth wave and winter lockdown talk is upsetting people and will be lingering around the minds when things reopen

Who has said anything about a winter lockdown?

Should they just not talk about it and if additional restrictions become necessary in winter, just spring it on people out of the blue?

Or should they be honest and talk about the range of options as we see them now? Things might go great and we won’t need restrictions and things might not go great and we might need restrictions.

Which approach would you prefer?

El_Duderino 09

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Hopefully this puts an end to the asymptomatic argument, 4 fold reduction in asymptomatic hospital workers https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/single-dose-of-pfizer-vaccine-can-reduce-asymptomatic-infection-by-four-fold-40136787.html

Is it enough?

It’s positive news alright. I’m not sure an article, which hasn’t even been peer reviewed, puts and end to anything. But it suggests the single dose vaccine cuts the asymptotic in quarter. If true, it’s great news.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I mean. That *could* be said.

It could also be said that thanks to proximity and migration, we were the first country outside the UK to see the effect of an increasing presence of the much more transmissible variant B117 that is coincidentally currently causing many of those countries with lower rates of Covid back in December/January to start seeing surges.

That could also be said. But it doesn’t explain why we had higher rates than the actual uk where the UK variant came from. They locked down the south east over Christmas, but that’s just a good argument lockdowns.

And it doesn’t make an argument that the Irish are good at being sticklers for the rules. The poster i responded to said we were the best in Europe for following rules. I don’t think that is an easy case to make given out behaviour over Christmas.

Bit cynical

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah yes but now we’re into enforced rules vs personal response where you explain how the virus spreads and ask people not to take the p1ss.

So, yes over Christmas it was the latter approach. We left it up to people to choose how to behave (knowing how the virus spread) and asked them to maintain distance from each other. To exercise discipline, to show good judgement, to behave well in the absence of enforcement - to be sticklers for the rules around how covid spreads. And we can learn a lot from what happened - we had the highest transmit in the world for a while.

Like it or not ( and I don’t like it btw) the people in Ireland showed what would happen with light-touch enforcement - they would collectively push the boat out a bit.

I don't think this takes into account the previous period of fairly heavy and sustained restrictions and the effect this has on people when they are partially lifted as they were over Christmas. Multiple rule-abiding social visits have the same effect of one rule-breaking house party. The virus does not care.

drunkmonkey

Lantus wrote: »

I would like to see masks become mandatory over the winter season in all shops to help reduce flu and other coughs colds and sneezes. It's such an easy and simple thing to do.

Hi Tony sorry but this is just idiotic, you'd need to ban most social activities such as pubs, clubs, sports, gyms, leasure centers, schools and creches to name just a few to prevent community transmission.
Masks have not prevented rhinoviruses this season they are all but useless against the colds and sneezes.

El_Duderino 09

Scotty # wrote: »

It's good news.

0.8% positive without vaccine (seems very low?)
02% positive with vaccine.

So a 75% drop. (incidentally, that's 'four times' reduction, not a 'four-fold' reduction. There's a big difference. Sloppy journalism).
...

I was wondering about the difference between four times and four fold.
Would four fold reduction of 0.8 be 0.05?

In any case it’s great news if it’s true. All we can really do is wait and see how these things pan out. There are lots of pieces of good news arising. None are a silver bullet so it’s a matter of seeing how they all interact and pile up.

They can model these things as best they can, but we can really only wait and see what happens.

eggy81

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No. It was an example of how well Irish people stuck to the rules during the Christmas period. All year we were told not how to avoid spreading the virus. At Christmas we were given the freedom and asked to stick to the rules by ourselves, without enforcement. And we know the result - highest transmission rate in the world for a while. My conclusion is that, wi the out enforcement, we didn’t stick to the rules very well at all.

My question to you was: “ How would you measure how much we stick to the rules in this context?”

Were we not patting ourselves on the back for the whole of 2020 about how well we were doing with the numbers and the buy in. Laughing at the Uk and USA and tut tutting at Germany and Sweden etc. Then when the inevitable happens in the middle of winter and around Christmas because we are known as quite societal types all of a sudden we are known for not following rules. Rules in general was what was insinuated. Not in the context of COVID restrictions.

El_Duderino 09

Bit cynical wrote: »

I don't think this takes into account the previous period of fairly heavy and sustained restrictions and the effect this has on people when they are partially lifted as they were over Christmas. Multiple rule-abiding social visits have the same effect of one rule-breaking house party. The virus does not care.

That’s true. But it does take into account that we were asked to show personal responsibility and we collectively decided to behave in a way that lead to huge transmission rate.

Maintaining good Social distancing doesn’t mean zero transmissions, but it would certainly mean we wouldn’t have had the highest transmissions in the world. I think lots fair to say that Irish Irish people collectively chose to push the boat out on social distancing and adhering to the rules.

El_Duderino 09

eggy81 wrote: »

Were we not patting ourselves on the back for the whole of 2020 about how well we were doing with the numbers and the buy in. Laughing at the Uk and USA and tut tutting at Germany and Sweden etc. Then when the inevitable happens in the middle of winter and around Christmas because we are known as quite societal types all of a sudden we are known for not following rules. Rules in general was what was insinuated. Not in the context of COVID restrictions.

Ok. My question to you was: “ How would you measure how much we stick to the rules in this context?”

gozunda

landofthetree wrote: »

The zero covid zealots are currently in a loose alliance with the EU shills.

The zero covid zealots are useful stooges for downplaying the good job that Israel,UK and even the USA have done with sourcing vaccines.

So any talk of it all ending with vaccines makes the EU look bad.

You will find lots of new accounts on boards.ie and social media sent out to shill for the zero covid zealots/ EU in the last few weeks.

But once the EU finally get the vaccines rolled in big numbers out the zero covid zealots will be kicked to touch.

eggy81

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ok. My question to you was: “ How would you measure how much we stick to the rules in this context?”

This context has nothing to do with my point. But obviously by the infection rate. Would you use the fact that the virus got out of control over the Christmas period to suggest as proof that in general we tend to disregard rules as a people.

El_Duderino 09

eggy81 wrote: »

This context has nothing to do with my point. But obviously by the infection rate. Would you use the fact that the virus got out of control over the Christmas period to suggest as proof that in general we tend to disregard rules as a people.

This context is what we’re talking about. I have suggested put behaviour at Christmas as evidence that we’re not great a being sticklers for the rules. And that a light-touch approach which relies on personal responsibility ended up Ireland having the highest transmissions rate in the world.

Will I ask again? I will

My question to you was: “ How would you measure how much we stick to the rules in this context?”

If you can’t answer or don’t want to answer, just say so. You made the claim that the Irish were the biggest sticklers to the rules. But you haven’t even tried to make that argument at all.

the kelt

eggy81 wrote: »

This context has nothing to do with my point. But obviously by the infection rate. Would you use the fact that the virus got out of control over the Christmas period to suggest as proof that in general we tend to disregard rules as a people.

Because we had Christmas together with our families, come on, surely that horrific act is proof enough to tar the entire country is a country of people that disregards rules as a whole, we can’t be trusted, etc, get with it man.

Sure other countries have had riots, huge demonstrations, burning down test centres etc but we had Christmas with our families, I mean the utter horrifying scenes across the country at the time, guards flat to the mat, army on the verge of being called in. I mean we could end up in the international court if justice at The Hague yet!

And I’ll hold my hand up here, at Christmas I was as much to blame as the next fella for breaking rules, I admit it, I served Christmas dinner and wasn’t wearing a mask and I didn’t have people spaced out 2m, finally I can get that off my chest, it’s been a burden.

I mean I know other counties had riots and demonstrations but the majority of people didn’t wear masks serving Christmas dinner, I know from talking to friends etc so hands up, we are all to blame here and I don’t believe that new variant had any bearing at all, just an excuse that!

eggy81

the kelt wrote: »

Because we had Christmas together with our families, come on, surely that horrific act is proof enough to tar the entire country is a country of people that disregards rules as a whole, we can’t be trusted, etc, get with it man.

Sure other countries have had riots, huge demonstrations, burning down test centres etc but we had Christmas with our families, I mean the utter horrifying scenes across the country at the time, guards flat to the mat, army on the verge of being called in. I mean we could end up in the international court if justice at The Hague yet!

And I’ll hold my hand up here, at Christmas I was as much to blame as the next fella for breaking rules, I admit it, I served Christmas dinner and wasn’t wearing a mask and I didn’t have people spaced out 2m, finally I can get that off my chest, it’s been a burden.

I mean I know other counties had riots and demonstrations but the majority of people didn’t wear masks serving Christmas dinner, I know from talking to friends etc so hands up, we are all to blame here and I don’t believe that new variant had any bearing at all, just an excuse that!

Exactly

the kelt

the kelt wrote: »

Because we had Christmas together with our families, come on, surely that horrific act is proof enough to tar the entire country is a country of people that disregards rules as a whole, we can’t be trusted, etc, get with it man.

Sure other countries have had riots, huge demonstrations, burning down test centres etc but we had Christmas with our families, I mean the utter horrifying scenes across the country at the time, guards flat to the mat, army on the verge of being called in. I mean we could end up in the international court if justice at The Hague yet!

And I’ll hold my hand up here, at Christmas I was as much to blame as the next fella for breaking rules, I admit it, I served Christmas dinner and wasn’t wearing a mask and I didn’t have people spaced out 2m, finally I can get that off my chest, it’s been a burden.

I mean I know other counties had riots and demonstrations but the majority of people didn’t wear masks serving Christmas dinner, I know from talking to friends etc so hands up, we are all to blame here and I don’t believe that new variant had any bearing at all, just an excuse that!

Literally thousands of people came here from England, despite being told to stay away.
Plenty of them straight to the pub also.

That's what happened at Christmas

El_Duderino 09

the kelt wrote: »

Because we had Christmas together with our families, come on, surely that horrific act is proof enough to tar the entire country is a country of people that disregards rules as a whole, we can’t be trusted, etc, get with it man.

Sure other countries have had riots, huge demonstrations, burning down test centres etc but we had Christmas with our families, I mean the utter horrifying scenes across the country at the time, guards flat to the mat, army on the verge of being called in. I mean we could end up in the international court if justice at The Hague yet!

And I’ll hold my hand up here, at Christmas I was as much to blame as the next fella for breaking rules, I admit it, I served Christmas dinner and wasn’t wearing a mask and I didn’t have people spaced out 2m, finally I can get that off my chest, it’s been a burden.

I mean I know other counties had riots and demonstrations but the majority of people didn’t wear masks serving Christmas dinner, I know from talking to friends etc so hands up, we are all to blame here and I don’t believe that new variant had any bearing at all, just an excuse that!

Yeah, look, I asked a fairly straightforward question. You responded with irony, sarcasm and over the top rhetoric.

I’ll stop asking how you measure stickiness to the rules int his context. If you had a good argument, I presume you’d have made it by now.

gozunda

the kelt wrote: »

Because we had Christmas together with our families, come on, surely that horrific act is proof enough to tar the entire country is a country of people that disregards rules as a whole, we can’t be trusted, etc, get with it man.

Sure other countries have had riots, huge demonstrations, burning down test centres etc but we had Christmas with our families, I mean the utter horrifying scenes across the country at the time, guards flat to the mat, army on the verge of being called in. I mean we could end up in the international court if justice at The Hague yet!

And I’ll hold my hand up here, at Christmas I was as much to blame as the next fella for breaking rules, I admit it, I served Christmas dinner and wasn’t wearing a mask and I didn’t have people spaced out 2m, finally I can get that off my chest, it’s been a burden.

I mean I know other counties had riots and demonstrations but the majority of people didn’t wear masks serving Christmas dinner, I know from talking to friends etc so hands up, we are all to blame here and I don’t believe that new variant had any bearing at all, just an excuse that!

Hmm - the whole sitting down to the Christmas turkey sacrifice thing might actually hold some water if it wasn't so liberally smeared with hyperbole.

Ireland realed back travel and socialisation restrictions pre Christmas - retail reopened with mass shopping events,  inter-county travel  went full throttle and restaurants and gastro-pubs did a roaring trade.  Hair and beauty salons ditto. Oh lets not forget the those lovely people who decided to fly in to see granny when they were asked not to.

We might just have got away with it - if we had some cop on and hadn't taken the piss. But that wasn't to be unfortunately.

All whilst the UK and Germany etc kept their foot firmly on the break and effectively cancelled similar Christmas shenanigans.

Lets say the ensuing mess didn't need any variant - but it sure of hell didn't help.

the kelt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah, look, I asked a fairly straightforward question. You responded with irony, sarcasm and over the top rhetoric.

I’ll stop asking how you measure stickiness to the rules int his context. If you had a good argument, I presume you’d have made it by now.

I’m agreeing with you, what we done was horrific. You’re right we just dont know how to follow rules, we are terrible, can’t be trusted.

My neighbour on Christmas Day when I dropped a Christmas gift off was sitting down to dinner and didn’t have all the windows open, I mean what did we expect?

And we had one extra person visit the house over Christmas which was stupid because that one extra person had a cup of tea one day which went above the allowed household mixing threshold.

And I hugged someone, I know I should have but she had lost her husband to suicide and my resolve wavered, she is a family friend but not in our bubble and I gave her a hug.

My brother in law went out for a drink with a friend and didn’t have a substantial meal to go with it, jeez that’s it, when this is all over he can go to hell.

I mean even the other day when I think about it, I didn’t slow down to under 50km per hour until I was gone past the sign coming into town..

Jesus Christ when I think about it we just can’t follow restrictions in this country and can’t be trusted. You’re right, dead right.

Scotty #

the kelt wrote: »

I admit it, I served Christmas dinner and wasn’t wearing a mask and I didn’t have people spaced out 2m, finally I can get that off my chest, it’s been a burden.

Why can you not have an intelligent adult conversation about the subject? Why does your side of the argument always end up declining into the nonsense you've posted above. Can you not see how this devalues everything else you've posted?

the kelt

bubblypop wrote: »

Literally thousands of people came here from England, despite being told to stay away.
Plenty of them straight to the pub also.

That's what happened at Christmas

And some of them didn’t even have substantial meals when they came, feckin English coming over here and breaking our rules, leading us astray and we fell for it, couldn’t help ourselves and lost the run of ourselves having Christmas with our families.

It’s like 1169 only more covert this time around.

It’s time for the army on the streets, we’ve proven we can’t be trusted by having Christmas with our families, just now I’ve seen a fella I know jogging past the window and I know he’s well outside his 5k

It’s like the last days of Sodom and Gomorrah out there!

the kelt

Scotty # wrote: »

Why can you not have an intelligent adult conversation about the subject? Why does your side of the argument always end up declining into the nonsense you've posted above. Can you not see how this devalues everything else you've posted?

What do you mean?

The argument is we can’t be trusted and are terrible at following rules because we had Christmas together and numbers went up.

It’s cathartic, I’m pointing out the rules the huge majority of people broke which prove we can’t be trusted.

Is that not what people are arguing?

It's fascinating watching someone have a meltdown.

the kelt

Deleted User wrote: »

It's fascinating watching someone have a meltdown.

Ah it’s not a meltdown.

It’s finally a moment of clarity and reflection that I like you cannot be trusted.

Charles Babbage

the kelt wrote: »

I’m agreeing with you, what we done was horrific. You’re right we just dont know how to follow rules, we are terrible, can’t be trusted.

My neighbour on Christmas Day when I dropped a Christmas gift off was sitting down to dinner and didn’t have all the windows open, I mean what did we expect?

And we had one extra person visit the house over Christmas which was stupid because that one extra person had a cup of tea one day which went above the allowed household mixing threshold.

And I hugged someone, I know I should have but she had lost her husband to suicide and my resolve wavered, she is a family friend but not in our bubble and I gave her a hug.

My brother in law went out for a drink with a friend and didn’t have a substantial meal to go with it, jeez that’s it, when this is all over he can go to hell.

I mean even the other day when I think about it, I didn’t spike down to under 50km per household until I was gone past it...

Jesus Christ when I think about it we just can’t follow restrictions in this country and can’t be trusted. You’re right, dead right.

Your post seems to be sarcastic. Yet as we had the most rapid increase in numbers in the world then our behaviour, or enough of us,was indeed horrific..

topdecko

Sam McConkey on webinar this am. Basically said the relaxation of restrictions between Dec 4th and 20th led to 1000 excess deaths in Jan and Feb 2021. We will see a marked fall off in deaths now with vaccination of NH and >85 as evidenced in UK and Israel.
We were within touching distance and took our foot off the gas in December which directly resulted in
1 entry of new UK variant to the country thanks to influx of people from UK over Christmas
2 marked increase in community spread due to socialisation over the festive period. It went parabolic.

no need for the histrionics about Christmas dinner and how everyone who did is horrible etc. But there needs to be a tacit understanding that in terms of controlling a highly infectious respiratory virus it wasn't the best move as a nation. Its just frustrating that we were so close to wider dispersal of the vaccine to those at risk groups.

growleaves

topdecko wrote: »

Sam McConkey on webinar this am. Basically said the relaxation of restrictions between Dec 4th and 20th led to 1000 excess deaths in Jan and Feb 2021. We will see a marked fall off in deaths now with vaccination of NH and >85 as evidenced in UK and Israel.
We were within touching distance and took our foot off the gas in December which directly resulted in
1 entry of new UK variant to the country thanks to influx of people from UK over Christmas
2 Increased socialisation over the festive period

no need for the histrionics about Christmas dinner and how everyone who did is horrible etc. But there needs to be a tacit understanding that in terms of controlling a highly infectious respiratory virus it wasn't the best move as a nation. Its just frustrating that we were so close to wider dispersal of the vaccine to those at risk groups.

No there doesn't need to be a tacit understanding. I don't believe McConkey or regard him as sound. I would like to see definite proof accompanying definite conclusions. I will be celebrating Christmas this year as well, regardless of whatever spoofing is pulled out of a hat this winter

the kelt

the kelt wrote: »

And some of them didn’t even have substantial meals when they came, feckin English coming over here and breaking our rules, leading us astray and we fell for it, couldn’t help ourselves and lost the run of ourselves having Christmas with our families.

It’s like 1169 only more covert this time around.

It’s time for the army on the streets, we’ve proven we can’t be trusted by having Christmas with our families, just now I’ve seen a fella I know jogging past the window and I know he’s well outside his 5k

It’s like the last days of Sodom and Gomorrah out there!

You will probably find most of them were Irish, couldn't do without the few pints and craic at Christmas🙄
I'm not sure how else you think the British variant got here?

eggy81

bubblypop wrote: »

You will probably find most of them were Irish, couldn't do without the few pints and craic at Christmas🙄
I'm not sure how else you think the British variant got here?

Was going for pints against the rules at Christmas?